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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.02.15 21:44:00 -
[1]
Hi! I am a noob and new to the forums, I play since just a pair of month and used Amarr ships so far, but after reading up posts it seemed to me that missiles are far best for missions.
Anyway, my questions basically are:
Can I solo the (level 4) missions that can be soloed in Raven also in Apoc or is it much harder?
Do I need any specific skill to be as good in Apoc?
Can you suggest me a good fitting to run lvl4's in Apoc?
Thanks, Goberth
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Kim Wu
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Posted - 2005.02.15 21:47:00 -
[2]
2 month players should stick to lvl 2-3's 
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Ninketsu
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Posted - 2005.02.15 21:59:00 -
[3]
Yes you can solo lvl4 in apoc.
I have done it whitout big problems.
Gunnery supporting skills(surgical strike, sharp-shooter and so on) is always good to have at lvl4(5).
Cap skills is also good to have. Recharge and maximum cap.
And of course Amarr Bs skill at lvl4(lvl3 is ok but lvl4 is better).
You could use the standard Npc-Apoc:
Hi:
8x Mega pulses(you may change 1 or 2 mega for siege launchers)
Med:
4xCap rechargers(the best you can get)
Low:
2xL armor repairers
2(3)xHardeners
3(2)xCap rechargers
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.02.15 22:20:00 -
[4]
You can solo any lvl 4 in any battleship.
It's just that the raven is a hell of a lot more efficient because it's high dmg weapon (torps) are hugely effective at all ranges and vs all ship types. Other battleships need sniper setups to deal with frigs, whereas the raven just warps in at 15km and nukes everything with torps in rapid time.
But, it may not be a great time to be thinking of moving to a raven with missile changes around the corner, no one really knows how this will affect their mission performance yet; it may move down the league a little.
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Yggdrassil
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Posted - 2005.02.15 23:27:00 -
[5]
Put it this way: I got Amarr BS 5, Large Laser 5, Large pulse spec level 4, almost all gunnery skills at 5.
I got Caldari BS level 4 and Torpedoes level 4.
I do 95% of my missions in a Raven.
Guess that should say something :P
Yggdrassil |
Nirat
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Posted - 2005.02.15 23:30:00 -
[6]
Tbh, a apoc with a nice sniper setup can take out level 4 missions faster than a raven in my experience, but I use a raven most of the time because I love see'ing the b00ms
-Nirat
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Yggdrassil
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Posted - 2005.02.15 23:33:00 -
[7]
Unless you're really patient - doing them deadspace in a sniper setup is... hard.
Can be done though - just got to use AB to move out far enough - kill rats - then use AB to get to the gate...
NO WAY its faster than using a Raven though :)
Yggdrassil |
Aaron Fourshytes
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Posted - 2005.02.16 00:02:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aaron Fourshytes on 16/02/2005 00:02:43
So basically it is "possible" but requires more skills, more focus and much more time than in a Raven right?
- Goberth
edit: sorry, my noobness - posted with another char *blushes* 
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Mr Wales
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Posted - 2005.02.16 02:41:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Aaron Fourshytes
Edited by: Aaron Fourshytes on 16/02/2005 00:02:43
So basically it is "possible" but requires more skills, more focus and much more time than in a Raven right?
- Goberth
edit: sorry, my noobness - posted with another char *blushes*
Well as it stands this is correct. The devs have stated that missiles will be getting an 'overhaul'. The avantages of using missiles is they always hit the intended target, but they take a long time to reach it -if your distance is ~80km it could take up to ~40 seconds for them to reach the target. If the nerf comes they will still more than likely take a long time to reach the target, but wont hit for full..or at all depending on the target ship size. Additionally with the overhaul missiles will be getting new skills. So right now as it stands it takes more skill points to pilot a gun boat, but this wont be the case after the missile nerf. Personally I would plan for the future and not what the current status is. More than likely the Apoc will come out on top.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.02.16 03:07:00 -
[10]
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!
somebody had to say it.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.02.16 03:30:00 -
[11]
The Raven is maybe the easiest BS for missions when your skills are low (but not as low as most people claim, you will lose your Raven if you do lvl 4 missions with a 2 month old character).
When your skills are high, other BSs will complete level 4 missions faster.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2005.02.16 03:32:00 -
[12]
In many Amarr L4 mission areas, you will find a lot of people using Apocs and Geddons for missions, despite the talk that Ravens are easier. They do mission in the same getup they use for npc hunting in 0.0 space.
Ask some of them, and you will discover they have a major aversion in using a weapon that requires any sort of ammo.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Jorlin
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Posted - 2005.02.16 04:05:00 -
[13]
i do L4 missions in my 'phoon...
ok, there are torps involved too but if it can be done in my little dustbin, it should be doable in a much more tankeable apoc.
no police, no summons, no courts of law;
no proper procedure, no rules of war;
no mitigating circumstance;
no lawyers fees, no second chance! |
Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.02.16 09:23:00 -
[14]
Oki, thanks a lot for infos guys!
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.02.16 11:00:00 -
[15]
I must be the worse combatant in eve. I use a Raven for level 4 missions (mainly Angels) and I don't find it particularly easy. The time it takes for torps to reach their target, plus the rof and reload times can all really take their toll. Of course you can improve this with named equipment but that's sooo expensive that it will be a while of mission running before you can afford to. I also find that torps are not the be all and end all when it comes to hitting very fast drones (which stay just outside of the SB range too) or very fast frigs/cruisers (such as the cruiser in Silence the Informant which travels at around 1300 m/s). For those cruise missiles are better.
Also, if you do go for a raven build up both the caldari bs skills, missile launcher to 5, torp AT LEAST to 4 and the same with cruise.
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Polaris Lumine
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Tavernier
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Posted - 2005.02.16 11:11:00 -
[16]
So here's the truth:
*most* level 4 solo missions are easier in a raven than any other battleship, given good skills for all battleships.
You *cannot* do all missions in a Raven solo, without sometimes getting into big difficulties.
*All* tier 3 battleships (tempest, apoc, mega, raven) can solo *all* level 4 missions. It's a matter of skills (ingame type), skills (mouse clicking type), experience, and most of all setup.
Do not expect to be able to walk through every level 4 mission in a raven. Some people say they do, but that's because they have a lot of experience and knowledge about these missions, and know how to do them. This knowledge isn't easily conveyed - each rat in each stage of each mission requires a specific approach...
If you want to do level 4 missions solo, yes, I would advise you use a raven. BUT, for the first dozen missions, please do not go alone, especially deadspace missions... there are many tricks to learn... find a partner that will shield boost you and out extra damage.
A lone raven, for example cannot complete a serp extravaganze mission without having to go get more missiles...
Finding a partner for missions makes them more enjoyable and much less dangerous...
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arqueturus
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Posted - 2005.02.16 11:24:00 -
[17]
No, contrary to popular belief, a Raven doesn't mean you can just walk through missions with your eyes closed. I'm a very experienced Raven pilot and a very experienced mission runner. My mission running Raven has nothing standard on it, or I should say had, as it got detonated today. Level 4 silence the informant caught me on the hop due to the rearrangement of the drones on the jump in. I'm not bitter, it was insured and has seen me through 100's of missions if not 1000's. Also a fair bit of the 'special' gear on it survived including one particular mod worth far more than the whole ship 
So, you still need to concentrate due to the sheer amount of firepower pointed at you but a Raven is the mission runner of choice.
Still, woe is me, I loved that ship 
cheers arq
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.02.16 11:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tavernier
Finding a partner for missions makes them more enjoyable and much less dangerous...
*nods*
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Polaris Lumine
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.02.16 13:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 16/02/2005 17:52:35
raven is often the mission runner of choice because turrets cant track frigs or cruisers in some cases (and they do more damage then the bs'es can in level 4 missions imho).
If you want to fly a raven id reccomend you have
engineering 5
electronics 4
torps and cruise 4
weapons upgrades 4
caldari bs 4
but to name a few, true you can be ok, with 2 million skillpoints but you might be safer in a ferrox doing level 3 missions until you can handle a BS more easilly.
you must also remember to get a decent mission raven costs a lot more than any other ship.
For the ultimate raven
Arbalestst siege cost ~50mil each (x6 = 300mil) (or 300mil each for dread)
Dread xl cost ~500mil
2x 55% hardners cost ~50-80mil
Dread/Navy amp costs ~200mil
2x T2 cap chargers ~25mil
5xPDU II's costs ~13mil
2xdiminishing nossies ~25mil (or ~70mil each for TS nocssies)
navy ballistic mods ~200mil
For a ship thats well over a billion, mine is worth a conservative 400mil, why so expensive then?
Well its because tech two xl shield boosters and tl2 missile launchers arnt ingame yet so meta loot demand is very high.
Ok siege i can understand not being released until missiles get balanced i cant see why tl2 xl shield boosters arnt released as meta loot is availible thats much much better then tech 2.
Death to the Galante |
Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.02.16 14:30:00 -
[20]
Thx for details infos, so its basically about torps handling anything from frigades to battleships while megapulse will be only effective againt BS/ cruisers(?) ?
Also some guy mentioned missiles will get nerfed "soon" - is that soon as in "alredy in testing" or as in "was mentioned by dev as future ideas"?
Thanks again
- Goberth
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.02.16 17:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 16/02/2005 17:51:49
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Also some guy mentioned missiles will get nerfed "soon" - is that soon as in "alredy in testing" or as in "was mentioned by dev as future ideas"?
I dont think it is in testing yet but it WILL happen possibly after the e\w nerf, personally i think missiles are way way way way way higher in the pecking order. e\w is fair and works at the moment, missiles are too overpowered against frigs saying that frigs particulary t2 intys are way overpowered for bs'es at the moment.
Death to the Galante |
Tavernier
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Posted - 2005.02.18 11:43:00 -
[22]
Dev's have initially mentionned a missile overhaul over 6 months ago... I can't remember the dev chat precisely, but I know it's been a LOOONG time... doesn't mean they haven't been thinking about it since, doesn't mean it won't happen next patch...
I absolutely believe that missiles are overpowered, and raven's are overpowered for missions as it stands...
I blew up my raven a few days ago... I was rather drunk  and was really getting tired of just being able to wade through level 4 missions with my raven and my alt in a shield feeding apoc... so I aggressed everything in a pretty hard drone mission, and got ganked... I did try to get out, but was scrambled... Had a great laugh!
and now that I'm sober again, I'm still glad I got rid of my raven... it can get so easy with 2 accounts and a raven that it becomes boring...
I do level 4 missions for the challenge and the fun... raven's are definetly noob ships in my opinions now... I mean... 3 weeks of training and you can fly a fully decked out raven... noob... 
anyway, good luck... I'll be in my scorp/arma combo 
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Tavernier
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Posted - 2005.02.18 11:47:00 -
[23]
btw, I've talked to a guy who was doing level 4 missions solo in an armor tanked raven...
I nearly "urinated" myself laughing, but hell, why not... 
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Commander Flopsy
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Posted - 2005.02.18 11:57:00 -
[24]
Why not?
2 Large named armour reps + 3 hardeners in the lows (or 2 hardeners and 1 ballistic control for extra damage from the torps), then fill the mids with Cap Recharger IIs and you'll have a pretty effective armour tank.
Highs full of Seige and whatever floats your boat in the 2 other highs.
I've not tried it, but sounds like it should work. Might be a grid issue I guess.
--
There is no SoonÖ |
Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2005.02.18 12:54:00 -
[25]
^ ^
Armour tanked Raven ...... It works very well .....
its nice to be different
Mongo speaks !!
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Carter Burke
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Posted - 2005.02.18 17:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Yggdrassil
Put it this way: I got Amarr BS 5, Large Laser 5, Large pulse spec level 4, almost all gunnery skills at 5.
I got Caldari BS level 4 and Torpedoes level 4.
I do 95% of my missions in a Raven.
Guess that should say something :P
That skills don't make the pilot?
CB
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.02.19 00:00:00 -
[27]
I'm a bit embarassed to ask since everyone seem to absolutely cream lvl4's like it was cheese but I've been running them for some weeks helping corpmates and I seriously miss to see how some of the hard deadspace mission can be soloed (without uber nameds and without a battery alt) for example extravaganza and drone harassment...
Is there something I am missing? Afaik ur just thrown out from acceleration gate and one of the groups starts aggroing you from 15 km how do u survive that?
Also some rat have great range and seem to tank forever, how can you outdamage them when theres more than one in a spawn?
Thanks - Goberth
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mr gimp
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Posted - 2005.02.19 04:05:00 -
[28]
well first of all, they can be solo'd and resonably easily.
What you need to do is actually look at what is initially aggressing you when you warp in, this will usually be a group of 5-10 rats normally these are all frigs and cruisers but occasionally you get a bs in with the first lot as well. You MUST only fire on these rats and these rats alone or the others will come for you. once these are dead you can then look for another group to attack. You may wish to wait before attacking again to recharge cap/ sheilds etc. Again with this new group only fire on what agresses you, also note never fire on the sentry towers or everything will automatically decide that you are a nice juicy target.
as for the setup issue on a raven, I run caldari navy missions so setup is as follows
Highs 6xseige luancher (i use arbalests but these are expensive, it can be done with standards but Rof is lower)
mids 3x kinetic and 2xthermal 50% shield hardeners 1 tech 2 large shield booster (or a c5-l)
lows powerdiagnostic 2's
This has seen me through each and every mission, i do obviosly have to change the tanking for different kinds of rats that i get everynow and again like EM and thermal for amaar rats.
The above setup does not need many skills and can get quite boring so maybe you would like to try something else, but its up to you. I have also solo'd most of the missions in a dominix.
Fly safe
and have fun
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.02.19 11:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Is there something I am missing? Afaik ur just thrown out from acceleration gate and one of the groups starts aggroing you from 15 km how do u survive that?
I tend to move away spamming torps at the webbers, i always make sure im aligned for warp in any case, i have two mission setups, a heavy tank and a heavy damage.
The heavy tank is currently
high 3 malkuth siege, 2 zw4100 siege, 1 Arb siege, 2 True Sanshas nossuies
mid 2 cap charger II's, 1 Xl-C5, 1 shield boost amp, 2 hardners (kinetic&thermal for guristas}
lows 5xPDU IIs
the heavy damage i basically drop two PDU's and fit two ballistic mods, and lose a nossie
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Also some rat have great range and seem to tank forever, how can you outdamage them when theres more than one in a spawn?
Take out the close webbys first then the close cruisers, in the case of some drone missions you get two drone parasites to kill, so get in close to one of them with torps and unleash everything you have at it, drones, torps the works, if need be warp out and recharge. Dont forget to nossie it.
Also make sure you train torps to level 4 (level 5 is better ) often then not when doing ds i warp in with cruise then switch to torps to finish off the BS's.
Death to the Galante |
Ky Vatta
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Posted - 2005.02.19 15:42:00 -
[30]
 So many people in Ravens use too many Torps, and no smaller missiles: To get rid of pesky drones, fit FoF missiles.....or get some Heavy drones, which help even more...(even against some frigates)
Corp Chief Engineer |
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