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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 16:53:00 -
[1]
So some guys at CCP get the brilliant idea of doing DUST, people cheer as it plays nicely into their wet vision of the all out awesome everything space MMO.
So eventually this gets handed off to some project manager, who for some reason neglects to include in his risk analysis, that DUST might only be released on one console platform. Now the effects of only releasing DUST on one platform is painfully obvious now, it is however insane that no plan to handle this was put in place.
Now lets say you actually consider the possibility that DUST would only be released on one platform, okay we can work with that, now to avoid a community disaster, which CCP already have experienced, one might think of explaining this to the community before the sneak peaks and running peopleÆs expectations through the roof.
I do not care about technical or contractual reasons DUST could only be on one platform, I do however find it unbelievable, that CCP who push the boundaries to get their beautiful vision to life, again and again utterly fail at reviewing their corporate structure/staff and improve their handling of projects. You guys might have the vision and the will, but how many times must you fail at executing before you improve?
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Holy One
Quiet.Storm Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.10 16:56:00 -
[2]
Did this thread begin life as a Haiku?
BBQ makes me hungry for more... |
Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
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Posted - 2011.06.10 16:57:00 -
[3]
ITT: mommy only bought me an xbox waaaah
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:00:00 -
[4]
Originally by: AeonSparc Now the effects of only releasing DUST on one platform is painfully obvious now, it is however insane that no plan to handle this was put in place.
àand you know that no such plan existsà how, exactly?
Quote: Now lets say you actually consider the possibility that DUST would only be released on one platform, okay we can work with that, now to avoid a community disaster, which CCP already have experienced, one might think of explaining this to the community before the sneak peaks and running peopleÆs expectations through the roof.
Setting aside, for a moment, that it's not really a community disaster, there are quite obvious contractual reasons whey they can't do that. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: AeonSparc Now the effects of only releasing DUST on one platform is painfully obvious now, it is however insane that no plan to handle this was put in place.
àand you know that no such plan existsà how, exactly?
Quote: Now lets say you actually consider the possibility that DUST would only be released on one platform, okay we can work with that, now to avoid a community disaster, which CCP already have experienced, one might think of explaining this to the community before the sneak peaks and running peopleÆs expectations through the roof.
Setting aside, for a moment, that it's not really a community disaster, there are quite obvious contractual reasons whey they can't do that.
You really need to just start copy pasting responses for all these psycho rants. I can't believe people this irrationally stupid can figure out how to use a computer, let alone post on the forum.
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: AeonSparc Now the effects of only releasing DUST on one platform is painfully obvious now, it is however insane that no plan to handle this was put in place.
àand you know that no such plan existsà how, exactly?
I dont, but lets entertain the thought that there were a plan, how do you rate their handling of it? Could they done a better job?
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: AeonSparc Now lets say you actually consider the possibility that DUST would only be released on one platform, okay we can work with that, now to avoid a community disaster, which CCP already have experienced, one might think of explaining this to the community before the sneak peaks and running peopleÆs expectations through the roof.
Setting aside, for a moment, that it's not really a community disaster, there are quite obvious contractual reasons whey they can't do that.
I agree, there probably was contractual reasons it could not be done, but again is this best displayed at a E3 launch?
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:23:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/06/2011 17:24:04
ITT EVE players are terrible at separating "official" information from rumours/sneak peaks/casual conversations/...
one type of information you can rely on, the other does barely deserve to be called "information"
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AeonSparc I dont, but lets entertain the thought that there were a plan, how do you rate their handling of it? Could they done a better job?
Hard to tell ù the game isn't out yet. The presentation went OK, I think, although Hilmar perhaps isn't the most engaging presenter and the IP isn't know yet. But it's been building for a few days now and people seem to really be intrigued by the cross-over concept. Sure, some xbox gamers are irate because some particular game isn't coming to their preferred platform, but that's par for the course so who cares.
Once the game comes out, we'll see if the "decision" was a bad one and if they can't handle the effects of it.
Quote: I agree, there probably was contractual reasons it could not be done, but again is this best displayed at a E3 launch?
Sure, why not? Maximum exposure for your new IP at a massively covered media event to reach your intended market, and play it up as "this will be awesome" rather than "MS are annoying to work withà" ù you have to be at Valve level to make that work. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: AeonSparc I dont, but lets entertain the thought that there were a plan, how do you rate their handling of it? Could they done a better job?
Hard to tell ù the game isn't out yet. The presentation went OK, I think, although Hilmar perhaps isn't the most engaging presenter and the IP isn't know yet. But it's been building for a few days now and people seem to really be intrigued by the cross-over concept. Sure, some xbox gamers are irate because some particular game isn't coming to their preferred platform, but that's par for the course so who cares.
Once the game comes out, we'll see if the "decision" was a bad one and if they can't handle the effects of it.
Quote: I agree, there probably was contractual reasons it could not be done, but again is this best displayed at a E3 launch?
Sure, why not? Maximum exposure for your new IP at a massively covered media event to reach your intended market, and play it up as "this will be awesome" rather than "MS are annoying to work withà" ù you have to be at Valve level to make that work.
For DUST intended market, I absolutely agree E3 was the right event to display it. But as Florestan Bronstein pointed out, eve players are terrible at separating the sneak peaks from what is actually delivered, hence why I pointed out CCP's lack at executing their projects. If you constantly raise people's expectations and then do not deliver, maybe you should adjust your communications strategy? I see their vision when they speak at for example fanfest, my honest opinion is that is not what they deliver, hence peoples frustrations. In this particular case, donÆt show a cross-over concept video before you specify on what terms (i.e. only one platform). Stop hurting people
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Sadayiel
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: AeonSparc So some guys at CCP get the brilliant idea of doing DUST, people cheer as it plays nicely into their wet vision of the all out awesome everything space MMO.
So eventually this gets handed off to some project manager, who for some reason neglects to include in his risk analysis, that DUST might only be released on one console platform. Now the effects of only releasing DUST on one platform is painfully obvious now, it is however insane that no plan to handle this was put in place.
Now lets say you actually consider the possibility that DUST would only be released on one platform, okay we can work with that, now to avoid a community disaster, which CCP already have experienced, one might think of explaining this to the community before the sneak peaks and running peopleÆs expectations through the roof.
I do not care about technical or contractual reasons DUST could only be on one platform, I do however find it unbelievable, that CCP who push the boundaries to get their beautiful vision to life, again and again utterly fail at reviewing their corporate structure/staff and improve their handling of projects. You guys might have the vision and the will, but how many times must you fail at executing before you improve?
Confirming this thread it's for now on about CCP failure as perfect business and executive game producer company
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sadayiel
Originally by: AeonSparc So some guys at CCP get the brilliant idea of doing DUST, people cheer as it plays nicely into their wet vision of the all out awesome everything space MMO.
So eventually this gets handed off to some project manager, who for some reason neglects to include in his risk analysis, that DUST might only be released on one console platform. Now the effects of only releasing DUST on one platform is painfully obvious now, it is however insane that no plan to handle this was put in place.
Now lets say you actually consider the possibility that DUST would only be released on one platform, okay we can work with that, now to avoid a community disaster, which CCP already have experienced, one might think of explaining this to the community before the sneak peaks and running peopleÆs expectations through the roof.
I do not care about technical or contractual reasons DUST could only be on one platform, I do however find it unbelievable, that CCP who push the boundaries to get their beautiful vision to life, again and again utterly fail at reviewing their corporate structure/staff and improve their handling of projects. You guys might have the vision and the will, but how many times must you fail at executing before you improve?
Confirming this thread it's for now on about CCP failure as perfect business and executive game producer company
On the contrary, it is about striving for improvement. Do you keep corp mates around, who constantly gets your gang killed? Experience is what makes people do new mistakes, not repeat the old ones.
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Digital Messiah
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:36:00 -
[12]
I seriously want to be able to report dust threads as spam atm...
Quote: Don't Panic
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Digital Messiah I seriously want to be able to report dust threads as spam atm...
Create Petition or [email protected] if its still active
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Digital Messiah I seriously want to be able to report dust threads as spam atm...
How many whiny family members do you have?
Originally by: Xenuria
I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 10/06/2011 18:45:18 CCP repeatedly refused to give details on what platform(s) would support DUST prior to their official annoucement date, outside of saying that it would be console only.
That date just arrived and you call it a failure that they did... exactly what they told you from day one.
There is a problem, but it's not at their end.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 19:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 10/06/2011 18:45:18 CCP repeatedly refused to give details on what platform(s) would support DUST prior to their official annoucement date, outside of saying that it would be console only.
That date just arrived and you call it a failure that they did... exactly what they told you from day one.
There is a problem, but it's not at their end.
Now I actually believe they tried getting DUST on both platforms, yes they are wonderful people but their good intent is ruined by their timing of communications. You are completely right, they could have known their platform choice from the beginning, but then why the secrecy? What is the gain and why not explain it when showing the concept video?
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Abriael VonRosen
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Posted - 2011.06.10 19:30:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 10/06/2011 19:32:52 No matter the plan, the irrational fanboys will whine if a game isn't on their preferred platform, like the developer intentionally and personally slighted them.
Sweetening the pill for them is not only meaningless and inconsequential, it simply doesn't work, just as much as rational explanations.
Besides this, we have the fact that demanding everything to be explained "here and now" (or there and then), because for some reson you feel entitled to know every detail about a project (details that probably aren't even finalyzed), is extremely arrogant, and simply irrealistic in this industry.
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 10/06/2011 19:32:52 No matter the plan, the irrational fanboys will whine if a game isn't on their preferred platform, like the developer intentionally and personally slighted them.
Sweetening the pill for them is not only meaningless and inconsequential, it simply doesn't work, just as much as rational explanations.
Besides this, we have the fact that demanding everything to be explained "here and now" (or there and then), because for some reson you feel entitled to know every detail about a project (details that probably aren't even finalyzed), is extremely arrogant, and simply irrealistic in this industry.
While I donÆt think wanting to know something is arrogant, I do agree you canÆt please everyone or avoid some hurt feelings; you can however minimize them to a certain extent. CCP solely chooses to share information about their projects and while this can be a double edged sword, revealing the terms of the project but delaying the explanation seems nothing more than a bad timing issue. If you know something is going to happen, do you try your best to minimize the impact or just passively acknowledge that the world is what the world is, whether you here or not?
While we can discuss this endlessly, why not ask for progress and not status quo? They do it for the game, why not for the management?
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digitalwanderer
Gallente DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:22:00 -
[19]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 10/06/2011 20:24:15
Given what we know so far and that is subject to change, i just don't see Dust making much of an impact and their presentation video is somewhat misleading to say the least...First of all in both videos we see dreadnaughts either blowing up the combat area from orbit or getting blown up with that ground based large weapon....Last time i checked, dreadnaughts aren't allowed in high sec empire at all, meaning that for the time being, all planetary warfare happends in either low sec empire or 0.0 space or even sleeper space for that matter, and the vast majority of the eve player base lives and makes money in high sec empire as we all know, so who exactly is going to hire these mercenaries to take control of installations?
Unless planetary installations are made a lot more valuable than what they currently are in terms of making money, i don't really see any eve player even bothering with hiring anyone to defend or attack these things at all, and 0.0 aliances in particular are always fighting eachother up in this thing called space, not screwing around with planets on an individual basis...
Now let's go to the platform issue itself, wich for the time being is limited to the PS3 and the latest PS3 portable player, where nintendo isn't part of the project and neither is microsoft for both an X360 version or a PC port,and let's face it the PS3 is getting long on the tooth hardware wise as it was released in 2006 and only supports DX9, not to mention the fact that there's dozens of first person shooters out there to compete with for the PS3 and many of those are using more advanced graphics engines that the UT3 engine, and a general market audience that doesn't care about eve's backstory or the integration of Dust with the tranquility server in the least....
I'll personally have too much fun with battlefield 3 and it's DX11 game engine and Dice's focus on the PC as the primary platform for this title, in 64 player multiplayer matches and completely destroying the map by the end of the round including buildings as high as 7 floors, and enjoying areal combat in both helicopters and fighter jets to even notice Dust at all, regardless of what platform it comes out on, never mind one that's completely outdated by modern PC standards as it doesn't take a high end PC to beat a PS3 in graphics capabilities anymore....If it were possible to have a port on all consoles and even a PC version, i could still see it making some impact on the market overall, but not with only a single console being supported, even more so when Sony might anounce a new console in the next 2~3 years anyhow wich will obviously have way better hardware in it to allow more ambitious looking titles to be created...
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:47:00 -
[20]
All this is coming out very quickly, and from numerous sources, so it is no wonder you are missing a few pieces DW. Not trying to be snarky, I'll try to fill in a couple of gaps.
While planetary bombardment will be an option, it is not necessarily part of every planetary engagement.
Most contracts for DUST mercs (with our without dred support) from EVE players is expected to be from null sec. NPC's will provide less demanding battles in High and low sec for those learning the ropes. They have not ruled out EVE player sponsored missions in high/low sec however.
PI is anticipated to be much more involved by the time DUST is released. Sov can be influenced, vastly expanded industry (DUST players will be able to do industry of their own, but will be dependant on EVE players to transport it off planet) even military options that can affect EVE ships above the planets are in the works. In short, the 2nd step in the PI expansion that everyone assumed would never happen.
PS3 is no more long in the tooth than Xbox. The devs have already said that when the next generation comes out, update DUST from Tranquility and away you go.
Remember, EVE players are not the market share CCP is looking for. Also keep in mind that in the console world "Exclusive" usually means about 6 months.
Check the dust sticky at the top, there are some very interesting interview linked in the DUST thread. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
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San Severina
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:58:00 -
[21]
Kinda agree, seems like a little lack of foresight has landed CCP with a major whinefest.
I just don't get that they can't have a PC release, or at least even explain why not. yes I'm disappointed & yes I'm very intrigued by CCP's poor handling of the whole E3 release & subsequent interviews.
It's like they are being deliberately difficult & pithy with their explanations to a stunned fanbase.
Now we just have to wait like seething children to see what transpires.
Most disappointed.
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: digitalwanderer ...
You both bring some good arguments; personally I hope DUST will be successful in creating a MMO cross-over.
Originally by: Ranger 1 Also keep in mind that in the console world "Exclusive" usually means about 6 months.
One thing I was puzzled about was how to solve the differences between consoles. Do you think DUST would work with two different consoles, regarding controller advantages/disadvantages? Or should this be tackled in some other fashion?
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: San Severina Kinda agree, seems like a little lack of foresight has landed CCP with a major whinefest.
I just don't get that they can't have a PC release, or at least even explain why not. yes I'm disappointed & yes I'm very intrigued by CCP's poor handling of the whole E3 release & subsequent interviews.
It's like they are being deliberately difficult & pithy with their explanations to a stunned fanbase.
Now we just have to wait like seething children to see what transpires.
Most disappointed.
The future is still ahead of us and potential improvements.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: AeonSparc
Originally by: digitalwanderer ...
You both bring some good arguments; personally I hope DUST will be successful in creating a MMO cross-over.
Originally by: Ranger 1 Also keep in mind that in the console world "Exclusive" usually means about 6 months.
One thing I was puzzled about was how to solve the differences between consoles. Do you think DUST would work with two different consoles, regarding controller advantages/disadvantages? Or should this be tackled in some other fashion?
Good question. I'm not sure we will ever see DUST on the XBOX. If we do it will because it has become so popular they are willing to make allowances in their usual doctrine to allow server based persistant games to do things a bit differently than they like now. I don't think it is likely they will relax on these various things though, as if they were open to the concept they would be in bed with VALVE on a few projects.
The only problem I see with an eventual PC port is the controller issue. I imagine that problem could be resolved in a couple of different ways if they put their mind to it.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:18:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 10/06/2011 21:18:52
Originally by: AeonSparc
Originally by: San Severina Kinda agree, seems like a little lack of foresight has landed CCP with a major whinefest.
I just don't get that they can't have a PC release, or at least even explain why not. yes I'm disappointed & yes I'm very intrigued by CCP's poor handling of the whole E3 release & subsequent interviews.
It's like they are being deliberately difficult & pithy with their explanations to a stunned fanbase.
Now we just have to wait like seething children to see what transpires.
Most disappointed.
The future is still ahead of us and potential improvements.
Indeed. People have to keep in mind that this deals with the high profile console gaming world. The rules are a bit different, and quite often a game company is under contractual agreement as to when and where they can finally spill the beans about the platform they are going with.
To be frank, at that point it's all about PS3 marketing. These things happen when you have to work closely with another company, as CCP will have to do with Sony.
Particularly if they are a big, hairy successful juggernaut of a company like Sony. CCP may not be able to coddle it's DUST player base as much as it does it's EVE player base.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Takseen
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:23:00 -
[26]
I do kinda wonder how big a playerbase they'd need to attract to break even financially. Especially since the game is essentially F2P with microtransactions. So casual players or wealthy players migrating over from Eve probably won't earn them any extra revenue, they won't bother with the microtransactions. And developing a shiny looking FPS and licensing the Unreal Engine aren't cheap.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Takseen I do kinda wonder how big a playerbase they'd need to attract to break even financially. Especially since the game is essentially F2P with microtransactions. So casual players or wealthy players migrating over from Eve probably won't earn them any extra revenue, they won't bother with the microtransactions. And developing a shiny looking FPS and licensing the Unreal Engine aren't cheap.
I heard they will also use isk that will be transferrable from Eve to Dust
Originally by: Xenuria
I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
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Enraged Stoat
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:29:00 -
[28]
Originally by: AeonSparc I do not care about technical or contractual reasons DUST could only be on one platform
And that is why this thread is pointless and you are an idiot. What part of "technically infeasible" don't you understand? MS are well known for their bulls*it technical and licensing restrictions - it's to CCP's credit they didn't lower the quality of the DUST product to accommodate them.
Do you really think 150 million PS2 users is too small a market and it will fail?
Go away, learn and apply some technical skills and some business sense. Then use the money you earn from them to buy a PS2 if you really want to play DUST.
BTW, I don't have a console, nor do I want one, nor am I fussed about playing DUST. I used to own an xb360 but sold it years ago after Steam made PC gaming way superior to anything consoles have or ever will accomplish with their closed proprietary hardware and limited functionality - what a waste of technology, time and effort they are. If CCP failed it's because they aren't bringing DUST to the PC, not because they chose the only console brand capable of delivering what they need.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:37:00 -
[29]
I picked a random DUST thread from the list, is DUST coming out soon or SOON?
Originally by: Xenuria
I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
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AeonSparc
Gallente Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Indeed. People have to keep in mind that this deals with the high profile console gaming world. The rules are a bit different, and quite often a game company is under contractual agreement as to when and where they can finally spill the beans about the platform they are going with.
To be frank, at that point it's all about PS3 marketing. These things happen when you have to work closely with another company, as CCP will have to do with Sony.
Particularly if they are a big, hairy successful juggernaut of a company like Sony. CCP may not be able to coddle it's DUST player base as much as it does it's EVE player base.
It is absolutely possible CCP was bound contractually not to reveal platform choice up until launch. It was mentioned by CCP that they would explain why, the original thread argument was also why they were not prepared, devblog etc.
In my opinion, a pc port is also the most likely besides the controller issues, would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the issue.
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