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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 15/06/2011 19:01:40 After watching and participating in the rage that has become of the dev thread on introducing the $99 developers fee, I have taken it upon myself to organize a shut-down of third party services in protest of these actions.
I propose that for 48 hours during the weekend of June 18/19, 2011, all 3rd-party developers who provide their services for free, but would be required to pay the $99/year license fee due to accepting donations or because they are supported by ads, or developers who only charge in-game ISK for their services, take their websites/applications offline to demonstrate to CCP that they need us more than we need them.
In a game with this steep of a learning curve and where nearly every corp/player uses the API in one way or another, 3rd party development becomes a natural extension of the game, and a crucial component of it. To charge people who pour countless hours of work into it, who pay hosting fees out of their pocket and accept donations to try and cover these costs, is ignorant beyond belief. To charge real-life money for a commercial license for applications that charge nothing but ISK, which by definition has NO commercial value, is pure, unadulterated stupidity.
If you are a developer or webmaster for an application/service that fits this category, post here to proclaim your support. The post below contains a list of all services that are participating.
As developers who pour donate our free time, who skip work/class to maintain our services, who pour our life blood into the pursuit of a better EVE, we must rise up and demonstrate that will not lie down and take this.
To CCP: - We don't want microtransactions - We don't want to be charged for making your game better - We just want you to fix the gosh-darned lag
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:05:00 -
[2]
Reserved for participants list
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:07:00 -
[3]
My Favourite Quotes, Part 1
Originally by: Chribba ok seriously, I've like Ctrl+A, backspace this post 5 times now, tbh I'm out of words.
I would like to know how many 3rd party developer/sites are doing it for the ****ing awesome income it generates?! Seriously, this if anything WILL kill development of sites and services.
As a creator of sites/applications/services for New Eden since well over 6 years now, I can tell you that I have never once created something with the goal to make money off it, this whole thing about needing a license to make something for the community is just ****ing ******ed! Just hearing this makes my interest/will for developing things crash.
This is not about the $99, this is about how you want to charge me because I want to do something for the community out of my free will - does that sense? Do you feel I am stealing your IP, making massive amounts of money off your IP? Then tell me straight up, don't try to bind it into some fluffy clouds and call it "great news".
Every IPO in Market Discussions will now require a license, since after all, it's donations. Corporations should get a license too, I mean having a corp tax of >0.0% could be seen as a donation to the corporation...
And yeah, I guess me and everyone else with an EVE IP tattoo will need a license, I mean, some other geek may think it's awesome and want to buy me a beer...
I'm just very sad to see this even being discussed, talk about a punch in the face. Don't get me wrong, I see your point of EVE IP, and yes I can agree that it may need to be controlled to some extent, but this is not the way. Not by far.
/c
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 15/06/2011 19:26:55 My Favourite Quotes, Part II
Originally by: ALLHAILCHODA So your going to charge people money who have made your game a better experience for everyone? Tell your CFO to remove head from ass.
Originally by: AtheistOfFail What's up CCP? Dust514 not going well. This is going to turn into the time you tried to charge for EvE Voice. Recommend community to disable all 3rd Party sites for 24 hours in protest to these unwarranted changes.
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woddel
Gallente Canis Industries Ltd Avaricious Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: woddel on 15/06/2011 19:35:15 in with www.eve-commander.com (8'400+ registered users), agents.eve-commander.com and various webshops that use the eve api and data export, including our alliance site.
woddel
ps : i charge isk subscriptions for an 'full' version while a 'basic' version is free. i never even tried to receive real life money. i'm not (and never will be) interested in that: i earn close to 12'000 dollars a month - but i like having a nyx or two without having to buy plexes for it. --- creator and maintainer of eve commander - complete web based character information tool and ec agent finder |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:34:00 -
[6]
I wish I had some kind of 3rd party service, but you'll have to be satisfied with my moral support.
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Azazel Mordred
Minmatar Cloak of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 -
[7]
I'm happy to bring down Out of Eve. It doesn't have a boatload of users signed up there (most people host their own instance), and I make zero RL and in-game money off it, but the licensing and fees idea is shocking, so I'll throw in my 0.02 support.
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woddel
Gallente Canis Industries Ltd Avaricious Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:37:00 -
[8]
and get chribba on board. and wollari from evemaps.dotlan.net. and the guys from battleclinic and eve university. --- creator and maintainer of eve commander - complete web based character information tool and ec agent finder |
Durin Sarga
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:40:00 -
[9]
Chribba, Dotlan, Eve-Central, Eve-Agent's, Battle Clinic's EVE page.
Throw in a few of the big null-sec alliance's homepages and you got yourself a party.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Ozeki Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:53:00 -
[10]
The issue with the in-game ISK thing is that in-game ISK can be turned into real life money. So, a developer trying to avoid the commercial license could charge 25Mil a month instead of $1 a month, and get his PLEX = Real Life Money.
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar offline to demonstrate to CCP that they need us more than we need them.
I don't understand. CCP, the one that gives you the ability to access their in-game data, needs you more than you need them? The logic... doesn't compute.
Sorry, not trying to troll. I just have some logical problems with the protest, but this stems partly, I suppose, because I'm not affected by the new license rules.
Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
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woddel
Gallente Canis Industries Ltd Avaricious Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:56:00 -
[11]
Drezle : you can't convert plex to real money. you can only save some money by using a plex to extend your account instead of using your credit card. meaning, you can, at most, play eve for free - but never get 'rich' out of it. --- creator and maintainer of eve commander - complete web based character information tool and ec agent finder |
Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 19:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega The issue with the in-game ISK thing is that in-game ISK can be turned into real life money. So, a developer trying to avoid the commercial license could charge 25Mil a month instead of $1 a month, and get his PLEX = Real Life Money.
The thing about PLEX is that even if you use ISK to buy it, someone somewhere payed real-life money to get it into the game. More people buying plex with ISK means more people buying plex with RL money so they can sell it for ISK. It's all the same to CCP.
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Doktor Csernus
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Posted - 2011.06.15 20:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Doktor Csernus on 15/06/2011 20:16:24 I could write a wall of text with full of truth and rage, but CCP wouldn't care. Yet, 3 of 4 subscription is down and they sending emails to ask me WHY? As(S)k yourself.
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Bom Barley
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Posted - 2011.06.15 20:19:00 -
[14]
Took down my Eve001Tool app.
Originally by: Bom Barley As a protest against this abysmal decision, I've decided I will not be selling anymore Eve001Tool licences.
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
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Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.06.15 20:51:00 -
[15]
You guy seemed to have missed the CEO's opinions as stated on Twitter a few hours ago:
Originally by: Hilmar Veigar #tweetfleet I love @EveOnline they try to make a balanced, reasonable (seems so) approach to monetizing 3PP, and whiners explode. #moartears 3 hours ago
Best thing about social networking - you can tell your customer base what you think of them and they will all just bend over and ask for more.
KV
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Amy Garzan
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.15 22:13:00 -
[16]
Please make sure you have a splash screen on WHY you have your site shut down on these days. Otherwise you will end up just ****ing people off.
I support you all in this endeavor! -------------------------------------------------- 101010 The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
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Posted - 2011.06.15 22:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar You guy seemed to have missed the CEO's opinions as stated on Twitter a few hours ago:
Originally by: Hilmar Veigar #tweetfleet I love @EveOnline they try to make a balanced, reasonable (seems so) approach to monetizing 3PP, and whiners explode. #moartears 3 hours ago
Best thing about social networking - you can tell your customer base what you think of them and they will all just bend over and ask for more.
KV
To be fair that was a retweet of a post by @swearte.
I don't agree with anything other than charging a licensing fee for those that want to make real life cash out of the sales of apps. It is discouraging to find such a small amount of real discussion buried under the mountain of whine and misinformation. |
Xia Long
Two Brothers Mining Corp. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.06.15 23:26:00 -
[18]
full support to your initiative! and thanks again for the hours you guys spend/spent to make EVE more playable for us
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Nathan Gorden
Caldari Strategic Investments Group
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Posted - 2011.06.16 00:32:00 -
[19]
I support this initiative. I'm currently in the process of developing EMM-Corporate. A market management and comparison tool designed and developed to assist in the creation of trader based corporations. The sole purpose would be to allow trades to focus on select market areas and apply a corporations worth of trading power to influence the market. If CCP does continue with their plan to create a fee based structure for the API access. All of my programming will have go to waste. There is no reason why I would pay $99 for a years access to digital nothing while I already pay a monthly fee to play the game. My development is purely out of fun and love for the game. Not because I am a programming company or any other entity that would profit. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.
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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
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Posted - 2011.06.16 00:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nathan Gorden I support this initiative. I'm currently in the process of developing EMM-Corporate. A market management and comparison tool designed and developed to assist in the creation of trader based corporations. The sole purpose would be to allow trades to focus on select market areas and apply a corporations worth of trading power to influence the market. If CCP does continue with their plan to create a fee based structure for the API access. All of my programming will have go to waste. There is no reason why I would pay $99 for a years access to digital nothing while I already pay a monthly fee to play the game. My development is purely out of fun and love for the game. Not because I am a programming company or any other entity that would profit. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.
If it's purely out of fun and love for the game are you planning on charging for your application? |
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Nathan Gorden
Caldari Strategic Investments Group
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Posted - 2011.06.16 01:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rees Noturana
Originally by: Nathan Gorden I support this initiative. I'm currently in the process of developing EMM-Corporate. A market management and comparison tool designed and developed to assist in the creation of trader based corporations. The sole purpose would be to allow trades to focus on select market areas and apply a corporations worth of trading power to influence the market. If CCP does continue with their plan to create a fee based structure for the API access. All of my programming will have go to waste. There is no reason why I would pay $99 for a years access to digital nothing while I already pay a monthly fee to play the game. My development is purely out of fun and love for the game. Not because I am a programming company or any other entity that would profit. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.
If it's purely out of fun and love for the game are you planning on charging for your application?
No, I wasn't going to charge. I would however accept any ISK kickbacks.
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Crystal Wolf
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Posted - 2011.06.16 02:26:00 -
[22]
I have just the Dev blog and i am not too happy. We provide services for ingame ISK however we put out a lot of USD for servers, domains, software etc.. So it's not like i'm getting ISK for nothing this would just add a little extra pain. For future projects we have both free and paid software in the works but none make real cash so why should we have to pay.
The amount they charge doesn't hugely matter the issue like others have said above we are being charged to put our time and effort in for this community.
I would be unhappy to see an devs stop work because of this since there are many talented developers within the EVE community and many great services offered.
@CCP Go back to drawing board and allow purely for ISK and free services to operate without a license because essentially the people who are being screwed are the ones who don't charge real cash for their projects.
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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
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Posted - 2011.06.16 02:59:00 -
[23]
I don't see the current terms lasting for long. My guess is the lawyers got involved and started doing their thing to protect CCP's IP with typical lawyer overkill and disregard for those providing because of their passion. Personally, I was waiting on the licensing for paid apps before I did much more with my project. I doubt there is much money to be made but its nice to get something back.
For community apps I think licensing fees in order to allow ISK or the random donation is nuts and won't last more than a few days before the next rewrite. |
cyclobs
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.16 04:43:00 -
[24]
when i read that blog i could not believe what i was seeing, i want to know what happened to ccp. i remember when i first joined eve, ccp was the top company. now.. i just have no respect for it
supporting you guys
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Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
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Posted - 2011.06.16 05:16:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 16/06/2011 05:17:10 Changed my signature to give some support to this post. --- The EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party |
Thart
U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2011.06.16 05:43:00 -
[26]
EVE Mentat supports this movement! I'll write official appeal soon. ----------------------------------------- EVE Mentat - true trade tool. |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:16:00 -
[27]
if you can get dotlan, battleclininc and eve-kill in on this.
you win.
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Caphelo
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:21:00 -
[28]
Why just a weekend? Do the whole week!
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riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:21:00 -
[29]
Eve News24 support this, yet we will report on the Shutdown itself to give it as much exposure as possible, will make sure this reaches SlashDot / News sites.
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:22:00 -
[30]
Anyone have contact info for developers of BattleClinic? ------------
EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party |
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:23:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Zagdul if you can get dotlan, battleclininc and eve-kill
Dotlan FTW. Everyone I know uses it, only a few use killboards (we're a bunch of hisec carebears). -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:25:00 -
[32]
Can't wait for the epic ****storm to hit if dotlan and eve-files goes down
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cyclobs
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.16 06:30:00 -
[33]
Edited by: cyclobs on 16/06/2011 06:31:56 http://twitter.com/#!/Wollari/status/81089366746861569
Quote: Wollari @EveOnline I won't pay a 2nd monthly/yearly fee to actually not play eve, cause I spend more time to work for the community rather playing
edit: and post here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1528607&page=18#514
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 07:29:00 -
[34]
I put the money where the tongue is.
Effective earlier today, after that sorry abortion of a blog, I have already shutdown every and all of both my in game and out of game services and websites (official announcement).
Therefore since today the foolowing services have joined the OP's initiative:
- Running audits will be immediately and all aborted starting now.
- 3rd party service, research etc, stopped.
- The upcoming RL trading course, stopped.
Here is the list of open to everyone services that I will have to shutdown
EvE Emergency Trust PLEX Charity initiative when RL disasters happen (featured on Fanfest 2011 videos, donated > $4000 to Japanese) Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Technical Analysis (finance) Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Public Audits Archive (Market Discussion investments)
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Public Investmens Records (Market Discussion investments)
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Charting Service Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
NEISIN free app Official EvE thread
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
EvE Income Analyzer (trading / sales analysis graphs and statistics)
Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site
Here's the proof:
I am also seeking for attorney consultancy, since I have invested 6 months of hard work setting up that many services plus operation expenses for paid domain, paid commercial hosting, paid certificate. I quantify my assets and moral losses in $10,000. Thanks CCP! That's your support to those who made your game famous, for free and at their expense!
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
davcin
Caldari davcin Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.16 07:43:00 -
[35]
Even if EVEViewer is pretty much broken at the moment (because of all the API updates) and I don't plan to update it for the time being, you have all my support.
____________________________________________
EVEViewer - view your journal, orders, transactions and allot more |
Thart
U.K.R.A.I.N.E SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2011.06.16 07:57:00 -
[36]
I've posted official note from EVE Mentat. ----------------------------------------- Let's join to EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party to protect free tools development! |
Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 07:59:00 -
[37]
Thank you all for your support. For those of you who have taken down your sites already, I encourage you to use a placeholder page that informs viewers of why the site is down (in protest of license fee), and encourages them to take the issue up with CCP.
Tomorrow I will create a simple single-file page that anyone who likes can download and put up in place of their normal service page, which will include the details of our protest (oh wait... do I need a license to do that?) ------------
EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party |
Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:01:00 -
[38]
If this includes corporate websites and killboards, this is going to **** a lot of people (including myself) off. |
Lutz Major
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:03:00 -
[39]
I was really ****ed off by this:
Quote: We will continue to provide technical assistance via the Technology Lab forum and IRC channel, but CCP does not offer formal technical support to developers or warrant the API in any way. It's provided as is.
I don't have any official 3rd party software running but will contribute to this demonstration, by not giving any support for any questions regarding API, SSD, ... for the next two weeks.
Let CCP provide technical assistance on how to associate typeNames, import Market data into spreadsheets, document API features and bugs, creating queries to determine manufacturing component quantities and so on and so forth
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Trenker
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:05:00 -
[40]
Count me in! I will shut down my site for this weekend and display a notice about this instead.
I have only one app (my Agent finder), which does neither charge ISK nor place any ads, but require every app author to obtain a license is VERY damaging to the EVE Online franchise.
The data provided by CCP (Dumps and API) became a source of an important part of Eve's game mechanics. The free nature of this data invites everyone to experiment and create new stuff. That may not be apps at all, but just some snippets or something, which may become the base of an actual great app. I for one have only one public app, but several private ones, which I created for fun and self - education. This way of creativity would be closed if licenses for every sort of API data based apps are required.
A licensing program for apps that charge real money is a good thing and a reasonable decision. The data itself however and the apps based on them, should not require a license.
An idea would be to release the dumps as well as the data provided by the API under a license like Creative Commons Non - Commercial License or something like that.
I think this is a very bad move of CCPs marketing directors, as it would seriously damage the reputation you people build inside the community for years. I love Eve, web apps and chinese food!
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Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:35:00 -
[41]
Have been working on a project for over a month now, have stopped working on it now. If this is truly the way CCP treats it's customers, I might not even bother playing EVE anymore either.
The player created apps and websites add value to their game FOR FREE. If their web devs weren't total tards the api system would actually work properly and not be such a money sink for them, never mind eve gate.
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Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:39:00 -
[42]
the only way i could see this as acceptable is by only targeting it at people trying to make money off it (read iphone/android apps) and the like
but seriously i have ****loads of webapps(no adds,but some include isk transfers) that i use for various tasks and im not going to have to pay $99 a year for the privelage?
i understand ccp having to protect there IP but, the people who will suffer are not the people who ccp are protecting themselves from, and to pay for something that is provided as is? **** that - the current support is dire
-----------------------------------------------
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Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:44:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
but seriously i have ****loads of webapps(no adds,but some include isk transfers) that i use for various tasks and im not going to have to pay $99 a year for the privelage?
You are, if it was just people charging RL cash for their services, I would have no problem with the license. Ads or ISK for services should be free.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Venetian Tar If this includes corporate websites and killboards, this is going to **** a lot of people (including myself) off.
Yes, it includes the 95% of killboards that are public.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.06.16 08:55:00 -
[45]
Even a lot of corp/alliance sites will be effected. Since some larger alliances do have ads/donation areas up to help cover hosting costs. Add to the fact that said sites/forums also use API for security reasons means they will fall under the commercial licensing.
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Crystal Wolf
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Posted - 2011.06.16 09:59:00 -
[46]
Invision Hosting will be supporting this movement.
We will take down our main site, public killboard and free services. However services for existing paying customers will remain active during this time.
Our EVE online topic can be found here
Our site is here
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Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 10:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Venetian Tar If this includes corporate websites and killboards, this is going to **** a lot of people (including myself) off.
Yes, it includes the 95% of killboards that are public.
So what exactly are the incentives to continue running my corp website?
I know $99 isn't a lot, but hosting is almost that for a year anyway. CCP, your intelligence knows no bounds when it comes to out-of-game services for those who require it as part of a corporation. |
Zakarumit CZ
Amarr Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.16 11:37:00 -
[48]
I am not a big developer of any public known programs, I have just written 2 simple programs for calculating mining profits for my own purpose and of course some spreadsheets. I just want to say I am using a lot of public known 3rd party software and I find it awesome. And I am really against monetizing them. I support you guys, all of you! This is really bad bad idea, CCP.
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Ashra Tesh
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Posted - 2011.06.16 11:56:00 -
[49]
Honestly, I have no problem with this and I fail to see why you guys to. Sure, I get that you don't want to pay, but 99$ a year is less than you're paying for your eve subscription, most of which you probably don't even pay because you use PLEX paid for with ISK.
This is an opportunity for people to actually make money, and while I've never released anything I've done with the API, it gives me a pretty awesome incentive to polish them up from raw tools to something pretty that others would love. Hell... even if I asked for 1$ or 2$ for the program (Which is DIRT CHEAP) to activate or use the program as a one time or yearly fee, that is only 99 or 50 pilots respectively that would need to pay before my costs are covered. On a game like eve, That's nothing at all, I could get that in like 10 minutes from the public channels I lurk in/My corporation members.
Hell, if your project is good enough you can charge 10$ and all you need is 10 pilots to cover your costs. I read a quote from the eve university guy up there - Sure, I get that you don't want to charge but you could easily cover your liscence + pay for most of your hosting too.
TL:DR - I think this is a great idea, HOWEVER, I am in agreement that charging ISK only should not require the paid liscence.
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SystemAdministrator
Amarr Invision Hosting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 12:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ashra Tesh Honestly, I have no problem with this and I fail to see why you guys to. Sure, I get that you don't want to pay, but 99$ a year is less than you're paying for your eve subscription, most of which you probably don't even pay because you use PLEX paid for with ISK.
This is an opportunity for people to actually make money, and while I've never released anything I've done with the API, it gives me a pretty awesome incentive to polish them up from raw tools to something pretty that others would love. Hell... even if I asked for 1$ or 2$ for the program (Which is DIRT CHEAP) to activate or use the program as a one time or yearly fee, that is only 99 or 50 pilots respectively that would need to pay before my costs are covered. On a game like eve, That's nothing at all, I could get that in like 10 minutes from the public channels I lurk in/My corporation members.
Hell, if your project is good enough you can charge 10$ and all you need is 10 pilots to cover your costs. I read a quote from the eve university guy up there - Sure, I get that you don't want to charge but you could easily cover your liscence + pay for most of your hosting too.
TL:DR - I think this is a great idea, HOWEVER, I am in agreement that charging ISK only should not require the paid liscence.
I can tell you didn't read our thread and your TLDR proves it. We wouldn't have a problem if we were charging real money for our apps and services.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 12:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SystemAdministrator
I can tell you didn't read our thread and your TLDR proves it. We wouldn't have a problem if we were charging real money for our apps and services.
I would.
I did not choose to play a game because I got randomly hit by a golf club. I chose to play a game to have fun and share what I have made. For zero, nada, null, zilch money nor ISK.
If I wanted to earn money I would have just done an RL job, where making $10 is infinitely easier than convincing a squadron of cheap-o-students to shell for some amateur application.
But hey, no only I wanted to share for FREE to EVERYONE, I also paid my own DNS server, hosting, certificates, developement.
What a loan shark I am for having put 2 Google ads that earned me 0.26 euros in 6 months! I clearly deserve to ALSO pay $99 on top of that!
For work I have done *before* this farcical blog came out. So now I am damaged for things done before this "contract" came out. I demand idemnification for assets and moral damage, quantifiable in USD 10,000.
Deal? Then I'll pay CCP the $99. But just for a year, because then they can GTFO, because I don't have to have to do anything in common with them any more.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Janus Talmash
Talmash Imports and Exports Group
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Posted - 2011.06.16 12:32:00 -
[52]
They managed to **** off Chribba, that's quite a feat. They're sh!tting on the very people who made EVE into what it is. Chribba's sites, Dotlan, BC, evemaps. You know; the things CCP was unable to do themselves so players stepped in and made it happen. It's not about the amount really, it's about having no ****ing clue on what they're doing, how that affects the players and what it does to their reputation.
They have NO FCKING CLUE!
________ Amat victoria curam.
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SystemAdministrator
Amarr Invision Hosting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 15:15:00 -
[53]
People Power!
Linkage
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realdognose
Caldari Biotronics Inc. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 15:43:00 -
[54]
Edited by: realdognose on 16/06/2011 15:43:48 Edited by: realdognose on 16/06/2011 15:43:25 EVEolution - YOUR Windows Phone Character Monitor will join this.
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Rath Kaldraz
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Posted - 2011.06.16 16:23:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 08:12:20 Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 08:09:44 Participants List:
EVE Commander EVE Emergency Alert System Out Of Eve EVE Mentat My Agent Finder EveViewer EvE Emergency Trust EvE Technical Analysis EvE Public Audits Archive EvE Public Investment Records EvE Charting Service NEISEN Free App EvE Income Analyzer Eve001Tool
It would be great if you could keep a running total of the estimated number of players (or accounts) these apps being down will effect.
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Kolimara
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.16 16:42:00 -
[56]
Im in with my little NEAT EveAccounting Tool About 200 active Chars affected by this. Not much, but they are addicted ;)
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 17:06:00 -
[57]
Kronus are we still going with this, after CCP Zulu's reply?
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2011.06.16 17:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Hello all.
At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say Iæm impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.
There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.
It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).
Itæs obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.
Unfortunately that will take some time and weære kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.
So what weæll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.
As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.
Arnar Hrafn Gylfason Senior Producer of EVE Online
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.16 18:07:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 18:08:12
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Kronus are we still going with this, after CCP Zulu's reply?
Obviously the answer to this question is up to each individual participant, but personally I am of the opinion that we should go forward with it. Although certainly a step in the right direction, CCP Zulu's reply highlights the fact that the opinions and feedback of the players and developers takes a back seat to their desire to spit out more candy-coated features that it seems most players don't want.
I believe that continuing with our demonstration will really help sink in the fact that as a united player base that is footing the bill for everything CCP does, we should at least have some input into how things are done, preferably before posting bad ideas to a dev blog and starting a 1000-post rage threadnaught.
Also, I believe that through our demonstration, we will convince CCP to seriously consider the appeal and recommendations document that we are creating. On that note, I encourage everyone to contribute to this document.
Kronus ------------
EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party |
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.16 20:21:00 -
[60]
A question/suggestion: could some native english speaker create a paragraph or two which we could put on our web sites?
This would help us poor aliens a lot and also would at the same time show our common stance on this matter.
It's easy enough to rant on the forums in a foreign language, but putting a well-formulated protest note together is a bit different.
Thank you very much.
Oh, although I can't really "stop my services", as my app is a desktop app (EVEWalletAware, that is), not a web/online service, I would join in the protest and disable all the links from the main page to the donwload and manual and just show our protest text. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.16 21:04:00 -
[61]
Count me in as well.
Strich's Liquid Service will shut down all services at the weekend. All parts of my services (mostly run only in the biggest german eve forum) are directly or indirectly affected, because I need tools like EWA for my services. Not to mention my lottery (the part of my service also running in the official forum.) Roadrunner's Lottery - Choose your odds; NOT another "ticked-based" lotto - No need to wait for others. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.16 21:56:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
Obviously the answer to this question is up to each individual participant, but personally I am of the opinion that we should go forward with it. Although certainly a step in the right direction, CCP Zulu's reply highlights the fact that the opinions and feedback of the players and developers takes a back seat to their desire to spit out more candy-coated features that it seems most players don't want.
I believe that continuing with our demonstration will really help sink in the fact that as a united player base that is footing the bill for everything CCP does, we should at least have some input into how things are done, preferably before posting bad ideas to a dev blog and starting a 1000-post rage threadnaught.
Kronus
Ok signed.
Guys, let's do this. Go and put your name under the appeal, since it's a WAY better alternative draft than CCPs.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Jake Falcor
C0VEN
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Posted - 2011.06.16 23:35:00 -
[63]
I find CCP Zulu's response mostly disturbing. I don't know who came up with that mad idea, but it is just Bad.
For Eve, a game that is focused and based on community and player/player interactions, setting an artificial bar for any future attempts on 3rd party applications is ridiculous at the very least. Considering how much effort it takes for an application like that to be properly written, tested and introduced, an additional payment - bah even additional formalities like the ones suggested - are just a killer. I believe most of the existing applications will continue to exist one way or another, but what about new apps?
I am no application developer, but You guys have both my support and understanding in this.
OOT I am somewhat happy that CCP considers player's opinion, but I believe it is still too little. CSM is great, representing mainly alliances they came from, but maybe you'll (CCP) look at casual players as well someday huh?
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Crystal Wolf
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Posted - 2011.06.17 00:01:00 -
[64]
Invision Hosting will withdraw it's participation for now. As CCP seem to have at least listened somewhat. I just hope their "Revised" scheme is not as ******ed as this was.
We will continue to keep an eye out and provide our support if needed.
Cheers
Crystal
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.06.17 01:27:00 -
[65]
Consider reportbots.com, the PI POS Fuel Calculator and my other tools as being offline this weekend with a big message saying why.
I support this 100%. Let's demonstrate to CCP what the 3rd party developers really bring to the table.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2011.06.17 09:03:00 -
[66]
Signed the document, but I think that is completely useless being open for the public. The document should be locked and posted so no one can modify it and signed through a post, since anyone can write anyone's name there and anyone can change what is written in it.
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OMFG1111
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Posted - 2011.06.17 09:04:00 -
[67]
Don't forget EVE Survival and EVE Central
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Mark Hamill
Amarr Galactic Waste Management EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.17 12:36:00 -
[68]
As the developer of EVETycoon, I support this initiative.
I never wrote EVETycoon with the purpose of making money. I wrote it for me and found people liked it and just went from there. While I do take donations to help offset the costs of developing and maintaining it, monetizing it was never my goal.
Furthermore, I do NOT in any way shape or form support the ignorant idea of turning EVE into a "WoW in Space" via MT. I pay a subscription fee every month. I expect to get EVERYTHING EVE has to offer for that fee. I do NOT expect to have to buy Plex cards on TOP of that in order to access extra items.
Even though they've somewhat retracted their initial dev blog regarding license fees, they have NOT heeded the call to abort this insane MicroTransaction greed.
EVETycoon's help files are all offline for the entire weekend. Furthermore, users who do start ET will be greeted in the Welcome Center by notice explaining why they're offline.
EVETycoon Marketing, trading and reprocessing tool. |
Frozen Guardian
Registered Amateur Mathematicians
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Posted - 2011.06.17 13:28:00 -
[69]
Hi,
I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.
So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.
Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.
-FG
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Mark Hamill
Amarr Galactic Waste Management EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.17 14:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Frozen Guardian Hi,
I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.
So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.
Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.
-FG
Aurum is not a draft. This protest is ALSO about microtransactions. Please read EVERYTHING this protest is about before you post. EVETycoon Marketing, trading and reprocessing tool. |
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Frozen Guardian
Registered Amateur Mathematicians
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Posted - 2011.06.17 20:18:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Mark Hamill
Originally by: Frozen Guardian Hi,
I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.
So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.
Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.
-FG
Aurum is not a draft. This protest is ALSO about microtransactions. Please read EVERYTHING this protest is about before you post.
I have 0 problems with Aurum. I approve fully of CCP doing micro-transactions for the cosmetic stuff 100%. Anything else?
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MichiG2
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Posted - 2011.06.17 21:47:00 -
[72]
I like EvE and CCP and i like develop some tools. That takes many time but there is no money i get for all that time. And if there is nobody who pays me that $99/year I am going to stop develop anything.
Paying $99/year and got a new API/Data_Dump .. without any time to get fixed the changes. $99 for any missing information about wich export-button will be missed after the next update? And wrong API-Data?
By the way: I also have to pay the server and url bill.
Page: TETRR
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Caphelo
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Posted - 2011.06.17 23:32:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Frozen Guardian
I have 0 problems with Aurum. I approve fully of CCP doing micro-transactions for the cosmetic stuff 100%. Anything else?
Edit: I'll go into a bit more detail why. If a person wishes to have a golden pimped out version of a scorpion or a monocle on their character then by all means. Who ever buys this stuff will not get an advantage in PvE or PvP so why should I care? If a person wants a special made tattoo of Chribba's face on their arm then let them spend 5 dollars. Unless CCP releases a micro-transaction where a player can buy a module better than an officer version or any version then I have a problem. They said during the tournament that this wasn't going to happen. No advantages. If people wish to look different and CCP spends some extra man power allowing this then that's great. Hell I may even spend some money but I doubt it.
You seem to have a lot more faith in CCP than most people. Most of us do not trust CCP to keep Aurum items limited to cosmetics. Two years ago, yeah maybe we would have trusted them, but not now, not the way CCP has been trending.
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spackles Ibsol
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Posted - 2011.06.17 23:46:00 -
[74]
Typical over reaction by the eve for7um players, it's 100$ it is less than a single night on the **** out with ya mates, honestly the sky is not falling. As for stopping third party apps in protest....... LOL
That is easy gotten round, people dont need evemon to survive or EVEHQ, etc etc....They just think they do.I really an honestly think you lot are panicking over the sky falling for nothing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.17 23:46:00 -
[75]
Please don't derail this thread in the Aurum flames. There are enough on GD as is, go post there.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
spackles Ibsol
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Posted - 2011.06.17 23:57:00 -
[76]
I am not trying to mate, I honestly believe that this entire issue is not that bigger deal. As for paying for the cosmetics, I see no problem at all there... It's a good idea hell we have played EVE for 7 years with all our ships looking exactly same, is it really a huge problem?
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.18 00:09:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 18/06/2011 00:12:27 I really don't know what to say to this. CCP asks for constructive feedback, we create a well-worded proposal document to do just that, and some ****ing prick decides to delete the entire thing. Whether you agree with CCP's devblog, disagree and would like to see changes, or are indifferent, that was just... I don't even have words for it. Ass-holes.
EDIT: due to Google being awesome and keeping a perfect revision history, it's been restored. Please have at least a little bit of respect this time, we're trying to do this constructively. ------------
EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party |
spackles Ibsol
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Posted - 2011.06.18 00:19:00 -
[78]
In all seriousness, does someone want to give me the cut down version of the issue. It seems to me people dont want to pay for cosmetics, yes?. So if you want a decal on your ship or new hairstyle, your up in arms over that?.... The 100$ a year thing for evemon etc, seems quite piddling to me (not trying to insult). 30 cents a day doesn't seem like such a dramatic effect in my eyes.
I honestly dont get what the issue is. The fact they want to introduce payments for little visual decals is of no conqiquence whatsoever really.... It is purely up to you if you want them.It isn't like they are going to suddenly start charging you to your credit card every time you repair or you want to buy ammo... That is never going to happen.
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Femaref
Armageddon Day WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.18 02:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: spackles Ibsol In all seriousness, does someone want to give me the cut down version of the issue. It seems to me people dont want to pay for cosmetics, yes?. So if you want a decal on your ship or new hairstyle, your up in arms over that?.... The 100$ a year thing for evemon etc, seems quite piddling to me (not trying to insult). 30 cents a day doesn't seem like such a dramatic effect in my eyes.
I honestly dont get what the issue is. The fact they want to introduce payments for little visual decals is of no conqiquence whatsoever really.... It is purely up to you if you want them.It isn't like they are going to suddenly start charging you to your credit card every time you repair or you want to buy ammo... That is never going to happen.
The protest is mainly about the clause requiring any free application or service to pay for a commercial license if they receive donations in the form ISK. This would include every lottery, every 3rd party service, every application asking for donations as a little give-back from the user, signature creation services and many more, if they are using parts of the eve IP, which quite frankly, you'll have to do if you want to offer an eve related service.
While I can't speak for everybody, I'm not as concerned about the actual commercial license for real commercial usage (ie. required payment).
In short: don't require a license for free (as in: no real money involved to buy the app/access) or ad-financed (for server hosting, not revenue) as those are already covered by the normal EULA. While problematic, a commercial license for commercial usage (ie. iPhone appstore) makes sense.
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Etheoma
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Posted - 2011.06.18 02:13:00 -
[80]
Although it is a massive inconvenience to have all you guys shut down i wholeheartedly agree that charging 3rd party devs is totally unfair, non profit organisations don't need another charge on there already unprofitable site / applications I don't know why EVEMON is still online : / i know $99 a year isn't that much but the signal you send out with that charge is not a good one and the gesture will do more damage than the charge its self, even bringing it up has already probably done damage, I suggest CCP that you formally apologize and re-work the idea only to those target those applications sites etc that make a profit, asking for donations to make back some of the money you spend when you have already spent your time on creating the thing is just plain wrong.
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Wrath IX
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Posted - 2011.06.18 04:00:00 -
[81]
I totally agree with not charging 3rd party developers as it stands. These people work their collective tails off to make tools to enhance our collective gameplay experience.
I mean really, as far as i know all or at least most of these developers are also players so they are already paying to play the game. Not to mention the fact that most serious players have more then one account with an average as far as I can tell of 3 accounts
I can't imagine that CCP is so hurting for money that they would need to do this to our developers.
So Unless that $99 unlocks some bat cave level secret to making their programs work more smoothly or integrate more smothly with eve, then don't do it
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Azazel Mordred
Minmatar Cloak of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.06.18 08:03:00 -
[82]
OOE is partying.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.18 09:39:00 -
[83]
EVEWalletAware has joined the party yesterday. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.18 11:57:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween EVEWalletAware has joined the party yesterday.
Now your signature got new a meaning about the "offline wallet manager" bit.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Evanova Android
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:18:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Frozen Guardian Hi,
I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.
So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.
Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.
-FG
I have to agree entirely with this. As I see it, this is only a *draft* and the whole idea behind it is to make it easier to 3rd parties to make money. The Capsuleer story showed us how hard it was to get CCP on a business license. I secretly hope CCP understood that and tried to come up with some easy licensing scheme.
Of course they need to mess up a good move with misinformed decisions and ill-conceived ideas. Hell, it's CCP we are talking about! But at least they don't slam it on us. There is a LOT of room for improvement and the best developers could do is work with CCP on a scheme that would be good for both parties. For my part, I have just posted 'Evanova', which is 6-month worth of work packed as a free Android application for Eve, no later than yesterday. I am outraged as much as anyone about the donations and ISK parts, but 99$ sounds reasonable to me if I want to SELL my application on the Android Market. Actually, it is much better than having to go through the misery of dealing with CCP to get such a deal.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:34:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 12:35:24
Originally by: Evanova Android
I have to agree entirely with this. As I see it, this is only a *draft* and the whole idea behind it is to make it easier to 3rd parties to make money. The Capsuleer story showed us how hard it was to get CCP on a business license. I secretly hope CCP understood that and tried to come up with some easy licensing scheme.
Of course they need to mess up a good move with misinformed decisions and ill-conceived ideas. Hell, it's CCP we are talking about! But at least they don't slam it on us. There is a LOT of room for improvement and the best developers could do is work with CCP on a scheme that would be good for both parties. For my part, I have just posted 'Evanova', which is 6-month worth of work packed as a free Android application for Eve, no later than yesterday. I am outraged as much as anyone about the donations and ISK parts, but 99$ sounds reasonable to me if I want to SELL my application on the Android Market. Actually, it is much better than having to go through the misery of dealing with CCP to get such a deal.
This did not became a draft in some magical way. Actually this IS the draft CCP style, in the sense it started as final, then the outrage made them patch it and finally they backpedalled it and put the late flag: "draft" at the end.
If people stood in faithful waiting, maybe 3 days from now we'd have to pay already.
Also, no one (including us) ever had anything to say about the license for payware apps, in fact we are in the other half of the license, the freeware apps.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Mamba Lev
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.18 12:38:00 -
[87]
I wish i had a site to shut down for this. It's a **** take. Bring Back Faction f.o.f.s
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Azazel Mordred
Minmatar Cloak of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.06.18 13:16:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Evanova Android
I am outraged as much as anyone about the donations and ISK parts, but 99$ sounds reasonable to me if I want to SELL my application on the Android Market. Actually, it is much better than having to go through the misery of dealing with CCP to get such a deal.
I absolutely agree with this. If their licensing proposal can be redone in such a way that it only applies to applications with commercial aspirations, that would be great for everyone. |
Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.06.18 14:45:00 -
[89]
ReportBots, PI POS Fuel Calculator, et all have joined the party as of yesterday. Site and all tools will remain down all weekend with a nice note about why and a link to the threadnaught CCP created with their stupidity.
I sat in Jita half the day yesterday posting about this issue in local and will continue to take time out of my day and game to do the same all weekend, and longer if I must.
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Cyri Huren
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Posted - 2011.06.18 18:07:00 -
[90]
not that my site is huge or very large in any way but I will definitely sign up for this site down :-)
07capsuleer.com is offline for the weekend
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Trenker
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Posted - 2011.06.19 07:21:00 -
[91]
After taking a look at other web APIs, I have an idea. Bind the API access to a token. Every web API has those tokens, just take a look at facebook, twitter, bit.ly, et. al. This token can be generated on the /api site, just like apiKey and userId already can. However: This token can be used by any number of apps / installations, and is not bound to a formal license agreement. A "Terms of usage" agreement should be sufficient. This allows CCP:
- Keep track of how many apps or users are using their data.
- Disable access to the API to apps that do not respect the terms of useage.
- If a violation of CCPs rights on EVE Online brand is found, it would give CCP a point were to start looking and to disable the further use of this accounts API access.
As an example: the bit.ly API (because it is so very easy): A user registers, in his user settings he can get the API token, with this token he can access the API, do as many requests he wants (well there is a limit, but it is so high, that you can say unlimited), from an unlimited number of apps from an unlimited number of installations, anywhere you want. EVE API could work the same way.
About commercial licensing: Those tokens can be upgraded with a paid subscribtions that:
- allows an user to publish a paid, propietary app
- offers technical support by CCP
- In case the API service is under high stress, calls from commercial clients are handled with higher priority.
What do you think? I love Eve, web apps and chinese food!
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Kronus Heilgar
Heilgar Trading Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.19 09:09:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Trenker After taking a look at other web APIs, I have an idea. Bind the API access to a token. Every web API has those tokens, just take a look at facebook, twitter, bit.ly, et. al. This token can be generated on the /api site, just like apiKey and userId already can. However: This token can be used by any number of apps / installations, and is not bound to a formal license agreement. A "Terms of usage" agreement should be sufficient. This allows CCP:
- Keep track of how many apps or users are using their data.
- Disable access to the API to apps that do not respect the terms of useage.
- If a violation of CCPs rights on EVE Online brand is found, it would give CCP a point were to start looking and to disable the further use of this accounts API access.
As an example: the bit.ly API (because it is so very easy): A user registers, in his user settings he can get the API token, with this token he can access the API, do as many requests he wants (well there is a limit, but it is so high, that you can say unlimited), from an unlimited number of apps from an unlimited number of installations, anywhere you want. EVE API could work the same way.
About commercial licensing: Those tokens can be upgraded with a paid subscribtions that:
- allows an user to publish a paid, propietary app
- offers technical support by CCP
- In case the API service is under high stress, calls from commercial clients are handled with higher priority.
What do you think?
I very much like this concept. I have no problem paying for the service, as long as I'm getting something, whether it be RL payment for apps or high-quality tech support from CCP, for my money. Please write these ideas into the appropriate parts of the proposal doc! (link can be found in second or third post of this thread).
Kron ------------
EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party |
Trenker
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Posted - 2011.06.19 15:01:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar Please write these ideas into the appropriate parts of the proposal doc! (link can be found in second or third post of this thread).
Third actually
I would appreciate if someone whose native language is english would do that. If no one did it until tomorrow, I will try it myself.
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Dean Capital
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Posted - 2011.06.19 23:58:00 -
[94]
While I do not have a 3rd party site, I do use them a lot as they make my Eve game play better. I for one DO NOT Support CCP in their latest batch of stupid ideas. I think CCP has forgotten what they start Eve for, For us the players. Over the last 5 years that I have played I have seen eve go from one of the greatest games ever to seeing it slowly been dumbed down and turned into more of a WOW type game. CCP eve is not WOW and you never should have tried to make it more like WOW. I think it is far past time that you pull your head out of your ass and listen to what the Real Eve players want and say to hell with the WOW players
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Samroski
Games Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 15:10:00 -
[95]
Appeal signed.
It seems that CCP is recently hell bent on destroying Eve. This monetizing blog has to be the worst dev blog ever!
I thought I was going to play Eve till I die, but it seems more likely that Eve will die first.
Here's to hoping that CCP find the right direction i.e. encouraging 3rd party application development, which is what gives longevity to games.
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Nunchuck Norris
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Posted - 2011.07.23 21:55:00 -
[96]
i fully support this initiative , CCP is too greedy , and people who are making Eve a better place for everyone -indirrectly helping CCP to earn more money- shouldn`t be charged for this . Even more , in WoW some applications were bought and added to the game , which i doubt it will ever happen with any of Eve apps
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CyPhEr UmOs
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Posted - 2011.07.25 15:45:00 -
[97]
Guild-Host.com is on board with this and fully supports this initiative. If they monetize this, Guild-Host.com will shut down fully and cease all hosting, forever. We currently host over 350 guild sites, 72% of which are for this game, Eve Online. Think how this will affect your clientele CCP if providers such as myself shut down because you can't recover from the Icelandic market crash and want to pass your shortcomings on to others around the world. Buck up CCP. Grow a pair! FREE WEB HOSTING |
Keil Sonter
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:31:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Keil Sonter on 25/07/2011 22:34:58
Originally by: CyPhEr UmOs Guild-Host.com is on board with this and fully supports this initiative. If they monetize this, Guild-Host.com will shut down fully and cease all hosting, forever. We currently host over 350 guild sites, 72% of which are for this game, Eve Online. Think how this will affect your clientele CCP if providers such as myself shut down because you can't recover from the Icelandic market crash and want to pass your shortcomings on to others around the world. Buck up CCP. Grow a pair!
I don't take kindly to spamming and your emails have been intrusive and unwelcome.
Don't contact me again. regards, Keil Sonter Website Hosting Services - EVE Corporation SubDomain Hosting Services - EVE Domain |
CyPhEr UmOs
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Posted - 2011.07.26 14:46:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Keil Sonter Edited by: Keil Sonter on 25/07/2011 22:34:58
Originally by: CyPhEr UmOs Guild-Host.com is on board with this and fully supports this initiative. If they monetize this, Guild-Host.com will shut down fully and cease all hosting, forever. We currently host over 350 guild sites, 72% of which are for this game, Eve Online. Think how this will affect your clientele CCP if providers such as myself shut down because you can't recover from the Icelandic market crash and want to pass your shortcomings on to others around the world. Buck up CCP. Grow a pair!
I don't take kindly to spamming and your emails have been intrusive and unwelcome.
Don't contact me again.
This isn't the place for this discussion but you've only been sent one email from the site you registered on. Perhaps you should be more careful where you register. All business sites send out newsletters mate, get with the program.
Sorry for the above post, airing dirty laundry here is not appropriate. |
Prime
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Posted - 2011.09.06 06:28:00 -
[100]
CCP - seriously
charging $ to people who have websites about eve = no more websites about eve
shoot yourself in the foot if you really really insist
remember, you often can't regrow a foot irl just like the vast amount of websites that go poof, may not return even if you change your mind later...
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Raw Matters
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.09.06 09:46:00 -
[101]
My recommendation to CCP from someone who develops APIs for a living: Charge people for using your APIs if (and only if) they have more than 1000$ total revenue per month. This way you can participate in those sites that use the Eve API to earn money and do not mess with all those who provide it for free.
For those who charge ISK for using their APIs: even if CCP says different, ISKs can be easily transformed into real money at a well defined exchange rate. Just check Jita for Plex prices and what they cost in $ and you have your currency exchange rate. However with 1000$ that would be more than 25 Billion ISK you need to make per month to fall under the proposed limit.
And if you actually do earn that much money you should ask yourself: "Am I really providing that for free?" (and of course send 1 Billion per month to my account for providing such helpful advise. )
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