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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:49:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Ashlyn Shi'jun
More money for ccp, more people working on eve and dust, which is good in my book. And if an app is realy that good ill either pay the money or wait for ccp to implement it(new agentfinder in incarna for example, which is great).
Sorry Ashlyn, but you're way off.
If CCP hires even ONE more dev as a result of the fees than i'm going to eat 1b of trit.
How small the fee, CCP is removing ALL incentive for creative talent to invest their time in creating usefull tools for the community.
Even if a certain tool is the killer app of the decade, you won't get any RL cent out of it. What's worse, many potential GREAT tools won't see it on a server anymore as said incentive to develop is removed.
The agentfinder, how awesome it might be, is a perfect example you could give, essentialy the community solved lacking content. Personally i would rather see that CCP the valuable dev time on REAL useful content.
But even that isn't the bottomline, we're NOT getting straight anwers from CCP about what their motivation is for implementing such a draconic measure. |
Rhivre
Caldari
TarNec
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Posted - 2011.06.20 09:10:00 -
[92]
Originally by: clixor
But even that isn't the bottomline, we're NOT getting straight anwers from CCP about what their motivation is for implementing such a draconic measure.
Their original motivation? Thats capsuleer. They said they would provide a way within a year for developers to monetize their apps after capsuleer went out of use because they couldn't sell it.
The first draft they offered was however, a complete mess. Have to wait and see what their second proposal is. |
Ashlyn Shi'jun
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:38:00 -
[93]
Hm yeah your right about not being able to hire more people with the money i gues, that was a bit shortsighted of me.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:16:00 -
[94]
(cut down because it's getting a bit long)
Originally by: Vasaczk
Nice Ad hom broski. <insert witty umadbro meme here>
When people act like they're as thick as a brick it tends to irritate me.
Originally by: Vasaczk
Ok this is getting really tinfoilhatty... Even if they treat the forum, the KB and base website seperately why in the hell are you suggesting it will be the user who pays the licence fee?
The user makes nothing from the API. They dont see ad revenues, they certainly dont see any money from paid services (because they are the payee), in fact even in the first cut of the licence model there's no mention of end-users ever having to directly pay a licence fee...Rolling Eyes
Have you been keeping up? Right now we're operating under the assumption that CCP will not force people to pay $99/year for licenses if they only accept isk. But the fact is that corporations pay for these things with isk generated from donations or from corp taxes. Read the excerpts from CCP itself. Charging isk for services requires payment. If a corp gets isk and then uses it to fund their website hosting, killboard & forum then that corp has to pay the fee.
Now again we're under the assumption that CCP has fully and permanently backed off that position but I'd suggest that thinking that nonsense up in the first place is indicative of where CCP's heart really lies. They may not implement such a policy -now- ... but they really really want to.
Originally by: Vasaczk
Snipped because of the above: www.somerandomkillboardwebsite.com will pay 1 x $99 fee and end-users will submit their information and have their kills shown. The website will reclaim their costs (and profits if theyre lucky) in anyway they can, either by ads, donations or some form of user pays.
Nowhere in all of this does Joe Killer have to pay CCP for a licence to submit his kill to a website...
Try reading again. C.f. my ad hom and repeat.
Originally by: Vasaczk
Yes you're right, the legal implications and associated costs of something that has private stakeholders (of affected parties if you will) totaling hundreds of thousands will be zero. Implementation, monitoring and enforcement will also come free too? I mean it's not like theyre effectively going from a completely deregulated model to complete regulation or anything Rolling Eyes
What legal implications? What the hell are you talking about? Nowhere in that draft was CCP stating that they had -any- responsibility to developers or users. No liability whatsoever. API down and your business tanking? Tough, suck it up. That is CCP's position. What frigging legal implication extends from that? Neener neener neener?
You're really inviting a few more creative ad homs at this point.
Originally by: Vasaczk
This I can actually agree with. And I never said CCP wont make money from this. I'm just saying that making money is far from their primary driver.
If money wasn't their primary driver then all they would have to do is provide an updated ToS that covers developers and leave it at that. Or a free license for anybody who signs up that includes a more comprehensive and developer oriented ToS.
Or how about a $10/year fee? $10/year would be tough for some people that are living with difficult economic circumstances. But not a huge deal breaker. $99/year on the other hand. What justification has CCP provided for that? What warranty has CCP offered that would cost anything near that amount?
All this is is an effort by CCP to monetize the API system and nothing else. They drafted a set of rules that would cover as much of the potential population as possible in the hopes that they wouldn't get much pushback. And if they didn't get much pushback then you would see that draft implemented ASAP.
Seriously why do I have to write this stuff out when it is clearly apparent to anybody who thinks about this for more than a few seconds? You call this an ad hom. It isn't.
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Vasaczk
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:35:00 -
[95]
Bah this has gone on long enough.
Parting blows:
- Prepare your "I told you so" when every single Corp kill board has to pay a fee, I'm quietly confident though.
- If you distrust the developers so much I am unsure why you are playing their game.
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Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
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Posted - 2011.06.20 22:28:00 -
[96]
Someone has most likely put this more elegantly then me, but here I go.
The problem is, in essence they are charging people that are doing good for the game and improving it.
While none of these individually would make me quit. They make it easier to manage several accounts, and to spend more time enjoying the game and wanting to play the game.
Eve-mon, Eve-mentat, Eve-hq, EFT are just a couple I can name off the top of my head.
These aren't necessary to the game, but neither is skill training que, fitting saver, jump clones, or such services.
Simply put, people have found a niche that other players are willing to pay for because it increases the value that they get out of the game. Why do corps pay money for a killboard? It enhances their gaming experience. Why do corps buy jump bridges? It enhances their gaming experience. It all boils down to allowing the customer to get more out of the game.
The point of CCP is to develop content that enhances our gaming experience so that we keep paying. Yet, they seem to want to charge people that are doing their job for them at no real cost to ccp.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:22:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Vasaczk
Bah this has gone on long enough.
Parting blows:
- Prepare your "I told you so" when every single Corp kill board has to pay a fee, I'm quietly confident though.
- If you distrust the developers so much I am unsure why you are playing their game.
1. Yes it has gone on long enough.
2. I am leaving the game because I find it irritating rather than entertaining.
3. My examples were of what *could have been* without the pushback. E.g. not what will be. You could have figured this out since I was explicit about it but again that reading comprehension thing ain't your style.
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Kara Books
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:33:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Kara Books on 21/06/2011 22:33:54
Market analisis websites, make the markets less profitable for the traders doing hard time for periods of time which is a good thing.
On the other hand, Each and every fan site, only draws more people to the game, reinforces support etc, which is a bad thing.
But here is the REAL GEM
For the seasoned merchants out there, think hard... but here's a hint, Resource prices have a very good chance of going up.
So you see, their not only going after the Merchant type websites, but Mostly after the places that are making the real money.
Bravo CCP! Strong game leadership!
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Vasaczk
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Posted - 2011.06.22 03:09:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Zeta Zhul
1. Yes it has gone on long enough.
2. I am leaving the game because I find it irritating rather than entertaining.
3. My examples were of what *could have been* without the pushback. E.g. not what will be. You could have figured this out since I was explicit about it but again that reading comprehension thing ain't your style.
1. Yet you post in a way which even a 3 year old would realize is inflammatory and thus will generate a response.
1a: For someone with such an ivory tower complex going on you seem to be kinda stupid, or, more likely
1b: Please stop trolling.
2. Good. The game will be better off without you.
3. Yes it's clearly my reading comprehension and not your poor communication skills that are at fault. My bad, I apologise.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.06.22 04:17:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Vasaczk
Originally by: Zeta Zhul
1. Yes it has gone on long enough.
2. I am leaving the game because I find it irritating rather than entertaining.
3. My examples were of what *could have been* without the pushback. E.g. not what will be. You could have figured this out since I was explicit about it but again that reading comprehension thing ain't your style.
1. Yet you post in a way which even a 3 year old would realize is inflammatory and thus will generate a response.
1a: For someone with such an ivory tower complex going on you seem to be kinda stupid, or, more likely
1b: Please stop trolling.
2. Good. The game will be better off without you.
3. Yes it's clearly my reading comprehension and not your poor communication skills that are at fault. My bad, I apologise.
blah blah blah. you bore me.
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