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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
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Posted - 2011.06.23 04:59:00 -
[91]
What about a high sector variant that would be built around the Dominix Hull? The Domini has more than enough drone space for both mining and combat drones. All that need to be done is too nyx the high slots and add two mining slots plus a few weapon turrets. enlarge the cargo hold to 1000 m3 reduce the low slots to five and you have the perfect high sector combat mining barge that can fend for itself against the gankers in Hulkageddon.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.23 08:03:00 -
[92]
OK, everyone please take a deep breath. I've cleaned the thread of offtopic posts and would like to ask you to keep it civil. There is an interesting discussion going on here, so please don't spoil it by bickering.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Lin-Young Borovskova
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Posted - 2011.06.23 10:07:00 -
[93]
The main idea is excellent, this concept should NOT be effective has the hulk is, should NOT be able to fit 5 or even 1single Ice laser turrets and squat for hours the same protected system (yes imagine what that beast could do in some protected system)
By the way, the hulk needs 2K extra cargo base +base cap recharge (apparte for CCP sry)
Now some people are extending this idea to some model going to high sec and I must desagree. Indeed, high sec mining represents some dangers but it's nothing compared with low sec/null sec. This "freedom" must have a price, you can't use rorkals and you shouldn't ever be able to use other thing than the base models and their t2 versions wich are more than enough to make huge profits.
What danger do you have in high sec? -the "unique" being all those paranoid nerds seeing bots every where and suicide ganking everything looking like an mining barge/exumer. The other being all the e-peen teen agers suicide ganking mining barges/exumers or indy's just because they're teens, don't have balls yet to go to null/low and kick ass guys over there, plus showing any sort of KB full of mining barges killed in highsec belts seems to make them real ubber pvp'ers...
It's high sec, it's where all the low balls, self proclaimed pirates, scammers, thieves, can flippers and other nasty stuff their mothers put there. You have to deal with or go to low/null sec and you should never be able to use Capital ships in high sec other than freighters, jump freighters with the high sec limitations they already have and orcas.
The concept of any bait mining ship is nice but no ship should be able to laugh at any small gang or larger fleet "I'm immune to ya warfare nahnahnahnTreuh" Bait ok, large bay so at least 10 miners with teeth can get their battle cruisers and asskick the scums from their belt.
Limitations for the hangar ships in size and ship type, could be fun indeed.
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.06.23 12:45:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Avrien stuff
Hulk, with max skills and spending LOLWTFBBQ amounts of isk on implants (last I looked, Michi's was 700m or so) can solo mine about 1750 m3/minute (no drones). If you've got a rorqual, you top out at just shy of 3k m3/minute (again, no drones).
Your proposal is that a SOLO ship can mine 3k+ m3 per minute before adding in fleet bonuses. With that being the case, no one will use it to support a fleet of hulks -- they'll just use this instead (by themselves, maybe in a fleet with 1-2 per belt). Furthermore, since it can "instantly" transfer materials, you have no need for orcas, rorquals, or any of the smaller industrials. you can just transport it to the destination all by yourself, instantly.
Your argument that cost balances it out is irrelevant, look at some of the nullsec alliances sporting 10+ titans (at 60 bil per hull) and 20+ supercaps (at 40+ bil per hull).
Where in my points am I failing to make it clear that this is overpowered as it stands?
The argument that this will somehow "protect" the miners is also irrelevant. If I was in a gang trying to kill a mining op, would I go after the 20m EHP ship, or would I go after the multitude of ~30k EHP mining ships? Hm... yeah... ignore the carrier, we'll kill the miners first. Obviously if they're hiding in a POS... move on (or cyno in the dreads).
The ideas about it being able to "boost" the capabilities of mining drone warpdrives rather than what you've proposed makes more sense. Though I will still argue that it should not be able to mine at all by itself, in order to make sure that there's NO WAY WHATSOEVER to cut out the "multiplayer" aspect of eve.
@ The ideas that this should also somehow make its way into hisec. No, absolutely not, never. It's already too easy to mine in the relative safety of hisec. This would make the rewards greatly outweigh the risks. However, a smaller platform that would simply boost the drones speeds or something *might* end up not being overpowered. (e.g. an orca-only module that allows the drones 200% speed or something <-- note, pulling numbers out of thin air).
@CCP Spitfire --> thank you
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Ghosts of Ragnarok Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.23 14:52:00 -
[95]
If this thing makes it through, prepare for mineral prices taking a nosedive. Clearly the OP just wants more minerals than profit!
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.06.23 15:16:00 -
[96]
I to agree that this ship would be seeming overpowered if it were allowed to have the matter transmitter. Which is a large portion of why i say it can't be implemented.
It should not be able to mine more than a hulk, EXCEPT when they're fleeted and have mining bonuses plus the use of atleast 2 other ships mining drones. Once they start getting the mining drones from 3 or more ships, then there mining amount will be higher than a hulk. The more ships that are available to drop mining drones, the more it mines.
This would make it a perfect low sec fleet mining ship and would suggest to the corp/alliance flying it to bring as many ships as possible with mining drones to allow better yield for the ore carrier.
But, like what was stated, there is a chance that this ship could make a terrible balance on the ore in the market. Fleets would probably mine with more ships and more mining drones then they normally would. Hell, they might even bring in a super carrier just to drop as many mining drones as possible.
So, considering the power that this ship could have, if you just fleeted with 1 rorqual and 2 carriers or super carriers this ship would be able to mine out a belt faster than a fleet of 5 or 6 hulks... So yeah, maybe this ship would probably be too OP for eve.. There are just too many variables that can vastly change it's efficiency for CCP to allow it in game... So in order for this ship to fit into the game it won't be allowed to control other fleet mining drones on the field.
However, it may still serve a fleet drone boost purpose allow the mining drones of everyone to harvest more and move faster.
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Drahreg
Amarr Slap and Tickle Anti-Social Outcast
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Posted - 2011.06.23 17:37:00 -
[97]
Why not simply fix the Orca so it can command 10 mining-drones. You could even introduce new tech 3 mining-drones.
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Avrien
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.23 20:11:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Avrien on 23/06/2011 20:15:58 Edited by: Avrien on 23/06/2011 20:12:09 Ok, I got some sleep. Hopefully this will go smoother now!
Here is the stats I'm using to run the Mining drones:(Tell me If I'm missing any mods to consider, I could be missing something large. I was hoping the implants needed balanced it out.)
I am actually willing to change it if it's overpowered for solo use. I'm just looking for why at basically the level of the math involved. I haven't figured it out yet. I plan to change it to meet everything when I find that much. Which I plan to since I'm trying to learn every aspect of the game through, and along with, designing this if possible. 8) I am, also, something similar to being sick, so that slows me down a bit. I might figure it out later. I hope I do if it's true! I'm probably not far enough to get some considerations yet in a practical sense.(I haven't been able to, literally, compare the imbalance to the statistics I'm using in my head.) I'm still missing most of the stats.
Hopefully writing these down will help. I do keep getting the feeling I'm forgetting stuff while I'm doing stuff.
* = Haven't personally confirmed is in the game yet.
Max bonuses Harvestors: 30 (Base Yield) x 25 (Drones) x 2 (Drone interface) x 1.25 (Drone Mining skill) x
(brb browser restart!)
A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.Thomas Jefferson
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Avrien
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:01:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Avrien on 23/06/2011 23:07:54 Edited by: Avrien on 23/06/2011 23:03:02 I Also forgot.
If I took the Med slots to 4 and the high slots to 5. It might make the ship weak enough to matter. Then it's max Structure EHP would be only 7 mill maxed out and 3.5 mill structure alone if not using MTRD. Plus the natural defense of unmoded other stats if using all 4 transmitters. NOt sure how that would affect sheilds. Or the armor tank. I'm not sure what the max setup would be for combat either. something that simple could change the ship drastically. I just haven't gone over the details of the other tanks yet. then gate camping you could only get like 3.5 mill if using structure plus 1-1.5 mill shield buff for instance. That would be 5 -6 mill max near structures per ship. Just a bit stronger than a normal carrier. It would literaly be only like double a carrier. Plus weak attack. though stronger in mining camps. But immobile. Not sure how much that helps.
This is with the idea of making MTRD undeployable withing 1 AU of gates/stations/POSes or other needed structures.
the MTRD could have a safety mechanic storyline wise installed. Or whatever. A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.Thomas Jefferson
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Avrien
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:36:00 -
[100]
The mining could just reduce to 15 total also, or change any bonus(+2 drones per level and change mods), etc. I'm kind of doing this with those type of changes in the back of my mind. nothing i'm working on is in any way a static design. I'm just only typing so much about it. Still getting it all down concretely. I just didn't want to force a ship that would lose total mining to a current mining fleet by making them lose x hulks. Unless it evens out.(I don't know what does and doesn't acheive that to be honest. I can't even remember the drone calculation a you see. 8))
Also there is the consideration if you don't put harvesters back it won't be that much. that was one of my variable. of if they were brought back they could be extremely rare(remove the BPC/BPOS then) and the cost could remain high. there are lots of variants that could be in play to balance stuff out. And in every area of the ship or environment. A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.Thomas Jefferson
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Bloodpetal
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:09:00 -
[101]
I think there are some serious design flaws, such as "any carrier skill".
And the fact that mining drones aren't that exciting - you'd want super mining drones.
You don't have to "fit jump drives" - they come with all jump capable ships.
And finally, how much AUR would you like to see this available for ____________________________________________________ Cost of the week of June 21st |
Avrien
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:16:00 -
[102]
The updated stats are on post #10. A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.Thomas Jefferson
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Call me Fever
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Posted - 2011.06.24 11:00:00 -
[103]
make him use some kind of siege cycle while mining so it cannot jump out while it's active. no gates, it should behave like any other capital. it should not give any bonuses but only receive bonuses.
advantage over normal hulk should be exactly in bonuses: while having Rorqual and orca on grid bonuses are insane, if solo mining (beside bigger cargo) - better to use hulk
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.06.24 16:52:00 -
[104]
Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN on 24/06/2011 16:53:39 Ok, after much deliberation in my head I've decided that I would rather see this implemented on a smaller scale.
What I mean by this is that I would rather see this implemented into a new type of mining barge/exhumer that mines purely with drones. This ship will be able to field 10 drones and have 5 high slots that are able to utilize drone control units for a max total of 15 fielded mining drones.
So here's some bonus stats for the ship
Can field one additional mining drone per exhumers lvl
?% bonus towards mining drone yield per Advanced drone interfacing lvl
?% bonus towards mining drone mwd speed per per mining drone operation lvl
?% bonus towards mining drone cargohold size per mining lvl
99% reduction in powergrid and cpu cost when fitting drone control units to this ship
Short story on ship:
For centuries ORE has been developing mining drones to better the yields of mining fleets. After the introduction of mining barges and exhumers, the usage of mining drones has reduced significantly. While ORE storage facilities began to overflow with new and used mining drones ORE had to find a way to get rid of them. They began to jettison large and small cargoholds into space filled with unwanted mining drones.
One of such containers actually collided with a freighter that just happen to be passing through a nearby system. Normally an incident like this would have typically gone unnoticed. However, this specific freighter just so happened to be transporting top secret items amongst Concord stations in the constellation. Consequently some of these item can be found in the vessels of pirate factions.
ORE was forced to pay a rather hefty fine and was restricted from launching anymore containers into space. Ore had to find a new way to get rid these drones, so instead of melting and attempting to reuse the frail, sometimes unusable material from the drones, they decided to create a vessel that could utilize these drones to the best of their ability.
What they ended up designing was a small carrier in an exhumer hull. However, after all the technology put in to control mining drones there wasn't any room left for a jump drive or a large cargohold... Hell, they didn't even have room for computers to all more than a single fleet of combat drones, and the only reason it had the computing power for that was due to the computers they had removed from a hulk.
Unknown ship name... Undetermined ship look....but it would be nice to see it not look like just another barge or exhumer.
The ship can go into high sec.. The drones do get a mining bonus when fleeted with boosters... She ship cannot fit any other module in the high slots besides the drone control units due to computing issues.
Since the ship is basically an exhumer it doesn't need a large range on it and will sit with the rest of the fleet at the belt.
This ship can mine roughly the same m3 per minute as a hulk..(expecially since it's a top tier exhumer)... This ship has a smaller cargohold than the hulk, due to the need for a quite large drone bay, however to compensate for that, it was given 3 low slots. (Drone computers added 1 high standard, 1 mid was moved to allow a 5th high slot, and 1 mid was moved to allow a 3rd low slot for more cargo
So essentially this vessel has the same stats as a hulk, except the cargo is reduced by 2000 m3, and 500 m3 of that was given to the drone bay. The other 1500 was given to computing power for the drones
So here's the stats
3 low slots 2 medium slots 5 high slots 2 rigs
35mw powergrid 300tf cpu output
max target range 22.50 max targets 6 660 scan res 150 signature
Same shields as hulk Same velocity as hulk
Cargo capacity 6000 m3
Drone capacity 550 m3
Drone bandwidth 75 m3 (all mining drones are reduced to using only 5 bandwidth in this vessel due to that massive computing power of the mining drone operations computers) (Due to the of combat efficiency computers on this ship it can only field 5 combat drones)
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.06.24 17:12:00 -
[105]
Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN on 24/06/2011 17:13:52 So basically I've given base stats of this ship, I've given a reason for this ship's creation, and I've given this ship a reason for the design. However, I've moved the ship out of the realm of being a carrier and moved it into the exhumer realm.
I suppose you can consider it a tech 2 meta 6 ship. Tech 2 cause it's an exhumer and meta 6 because the computers require exhumers 5 plus drone skills to operate.
They might even be able to design a tech 1 version, but since the covetor requires mining barges 5, so essentially being the top tier mining barge, I'm still thinking this would only fit in the exhumers category.
Edit.. This ship CANNOT fit any other modules in the high slots besides the drone control units due to incompatibility with the computers.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.06.24 17:59:00 -
[106]
How the hell do we get this thing sticky?
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Avrien
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.06.24 20:12:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Avrien on 24/06/2011 20:11:56
Originally by: Call me Fever make him use some kind of siege cycle while mining so it cannot jump out while it's active. no gates, it should behave like any other capital. it should not give any bonuses but only receive bonuses.
advantage over normal hulk should be exactly in bonuses: while having Rorqual and orca on grid bonuses are insane, if solo mining (beside bigger cargo) - better to use hulk
It has to seige to get the benefit of the MTRD. IT could have a timer to end it. But I wouldn't know what to put it as atm. It does do only what other caps can now. Post #10 is updated stats. And the rest is kind of messily laying around. 8p
A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.Thomas Jefferson
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.06.24 20:48:00 -
[108]
Personally, I still feel that it being a carrier model makes it less likely to be used. I also still feel that the matter transmitter and drone control would be OP.
however, If we do like I suggested and make it a drone oriented exhumer, it would balance out, give more use to mining drones, and be usable in high security.
I just hope if they take up the offer on it being an exhumer they'll refrain from making it look just like every other exhumer and mining barge.
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