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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.18 23:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tallena Curie on 18/06/2011 23:12:49 So I asked myself, "What do you do with a new Orca and maxed out Fleet Mining Skills?" The first answer was "sell it and get a T3 cruiser. Sieze your enemies by the throat, disembowel them and savor their screams for mercy and death" Taken aback slightly, I asked again, because my mother always told me to ask for a second opinion when dealing with professionals. I heard a small voice, barely heard above the screams for blood: "Go onto the forums, make an open mining op thread and make the most of your bonuses. Everyone will love you and you'll get rich. Also kill your mother."
Naturally, the more peaceful urges won over. Because I am not a bad person at heart, I am here, making that very thread. My mother can wait.
Attention! I have opened a chat room and mailing list called "TMMOM", which stands for Tally's Mining Machine Open Mine, which is both descriptive and serves as a tribute to my own mother, who in truth has lived a full and meaninful life. No regrets, mom!
The plan, as I am told, is: 1) Join the "TMMOM" mailing list and Chat room 2) Make a note of the next Mining Op's time and location 3) Bring the right ship and crystals! 4) Show up in system, ask for a fleet invite and get ready to make some ISK! (Please do not bring any family members e.g. your mother!) 5) I will buy whatever you mine, on the spot, no questions asked! The pay rate per m3 will be announced at the time the event notice is sent! The price is final and I will not budge on it, despite your sob stories about ailing and destitute mothers needing the ISK!
This event event is open to everyone, but may be more suitable for new players who want to make extra cash mining but don't get much satisfaction doing it alone!
I am sorry but players whose corporations are at war with another will not be allowed into the fleet for game mechanics reasons! I'm not going to jeopardize property because of an exploit!
So come one, come all, and let's make some friggin money!
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SC0T1SH WARRIOR
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Posted - 2011.06.20 00:34:00 -
[2]
So the plan is to advertise where you will be, your numbers and exactly what time you will show up?
I can see the farmer and the sheep, but what insurance do you have against wolves?
unless you have Very Good security in place, this idea will hurt you, as it has hurt others in the past.
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.20 03:14:00 -
[3]
Tonight's op was a modest success for a brand new event, pulling in 75,000 m3 of ores in 2 hours, and payouts totalling 12.75 million ISK.
We are only currently running ops in highsec until I have secured a fortified lowsec operation. Stay tuned for the next op by joining the "TMMOM" mailing list! Next time, we go deeper into mid-sec, with higher payouts per can!
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.20 03:18:00 -
[4]
Originally by: SC0T1SH WARRIOR So the plan is to advertise where you will be, your numbers and exactly what time you will show up?
I can see the farmer and the sheep, but what insurance do you have against wolves?
unless you have Very Good security in place, this idea will hurt you, as it has hurt others in the past.
Security is not a concern in highsec. Can flippers do not have access to my Orca's holds, so the probability of loss is extremely low.
If, sometime down the road I decide to bankroll lowsec operations, the security will be lockdown-style with cyno support. For now, highsec only.
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Eirene Jitacheck
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Posted - 2011.06.20 03:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tallena Curie Security is not a concern in highsec.
I LOL'ed.
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.20 04:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Eirene Jitacheck
Originally by: Tallena Curie Security is not a concern in highsec.
I LOL'ed.
I meant in terms of my mining ops. Of course it's not really safe, in general. If you want to blow a few hundred mil to suicide gank an Orca, well, I guess you win at EVE or something. Did you know CCP gives out medals for that? They are chrome plated (chrome makes it go faster!), graven with the image of a weeping carebear.
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Swynet
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.20 05:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tallena Curie
Originally by: Eirene Jitacheck
Originally by: Tallena Curie Security is not a concern in highsec.
I LOL'ed.
I meant in terms of my mining ops. Of course it's not really safe, in general. If you want to blow a few hundred mil to suicide gank an Orca, well, I guess you win at EVE or something. Did you know CCP gives out medals for that? They are chrome plated (chrome makes it go faster!), graven with the image of a weeping carebear.
Yeah and lots of soda and sandwiches
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.23 00:26:00 -
[8]
New op announced, check the mailing list for details. See you there!
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.24 01:28:00 -
[9]
Op is running at this moment! Join the "TMMOM" mailing list to find out where, and to get future updates on locations and times!
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:15:00 -
[10]
Another mining op complete! Light on attendance but big on value! Approximately 260,000 m3 of ores mined in 4 hours with a total payout of almost 30 million ISK. Not bad for highsec, overall.
Help push up the numbers and get your fair share of the pie!
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Lord Eddard Stark
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Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tallena Curie75,000 m3 of ores in 2 hours, and payouts totalling 12.75 million ISK[/quote
What? Maybe i'm understanding it wrong, but did you say that the whole gang earned 12.75 millions isk for 2 hour of work?
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Lord Eddard Stark
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Posted - 2011.06.24 15:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tallena Curie Another mining op complete! Light on attendance but big on value! Approximately 260,000 m3 of ores mined in 4 hours with a total payout of almost 30 million ISK. Not bad for highsec, overall.
Help push up the numbers and get your fair share of the pie!
30 mil/isk for 4 hours of work @_@''''
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.24 19:03:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tallena Curie on 24/06/2011 19:05:02 It's still early days. With only one or two people each time, it's about right, especially if they are not dedicated miners. Bigger numbers and payouts come with more people; people that have the necessary skills and equipment to make it pay. The mailing list is growing, so hopefully the next one will be a little more impressive. Also, I haven't had any complaints yet about my pay rate, so take that as you will. 40 isk per Scord or Veld rock is highway robbery in my opinion, but I pay it because the other, more expensive ores average it out.
I provide a service that is helpful, and in return I make a little profit and find new friends. Seems like a win-win to me, but I guess for some people money is everything.
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 -
[14]
Op tonight at 0:00!! Join the TMMOM mailing list or chat room for details. Hope to see you there; let's clear those rocks!
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Eveneth
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:11:00 -
[15]
I don't mean to be discouraging, but why are you paying so little ISK/m3? Yes, I did read your post about average prices and whatnot, but I'm just curious as to how you expect to be successful in this when people could fly with Savoian (the OP of the thread Open Mining Operations as he is paying almost triple what you are and he's after the same ores? Just a general curiosity.
As a side note, I do think what you're doing is great as it provides newer miners (or any miner in high-sec) with the opportunity to make a quick profit...just raising your buy prices a little might be slightly more enticing.
Best of luck.
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:33:00 -
[16]
Yeah, I'm not sure why he charges that much either, in highsec. I picked a very out-of-the way place, did a complete survey of a number of roid fields and did a lot of math. Before I did the legwork, I just picked a price that seemed attractive, but I was hemhorraging money each time, to keep up with it.
The only thing I can think of is that he actively refuses to pay for Veld and Scord, or doesn't mind taking enormous losses. The quality and quantity of uncommon ores isn't that much better in 0.5, so it's not the .1 difference in security between my chosen systems and the lower bound of highsec. Paying out 60 or 70 something for whatever people bring you is absurd, because there will never be enough Kern, Pyrox and Jaspet to cover what you would be paying out in Veld rocks alone.
Considering that mainly I will be putting Veld and Scord in my hold, I had to do a weighted average, or I get nothing at all for my time and effort except massive losses. I may not be making killer ISK, but to not be bleeding out 3 times a week would be nice :)
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Eveneth
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:40:00 -
[17]
I can understand that. As a fellow industrialist, I am quite aware that margins can be tight. Thank you for clarifying :)
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.26 22:50:00 -
[18]
No problem. I don't want people feeling like they are getting stiffed. It was my own fault for not doing all the necessary calculations and research before announcing ops. I assumed that the other Open Mining thread had a reasonable price; it turned out that was not remotely the case.
Even for veteran highsec miners, getting a massive Orca boost and having someone pay out 15 ISK for those rocks is a rare thing, rarer still to not have to haul it to a station. In my opinion, well worth the handful of higher priced rocks that I underbid on. :)
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.27 00:06:00 -
[19]
Orca is out of the station and boosting! Send me a convo in-game for an invite to the fleet!
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2011.06.27 01:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Che Biko on 27/06/2011 01:15:32 Erhm, according to the prices I'm getting, the only ore below 70 ISK/m3 is Omber at ~63,81.
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Mervent
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.27 04:19:00 -
[21]
Might I suggest putting a thread in the New Citizens forum section. Good luck with the operation.
His name was John Turbefield. |
Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.27 13:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Tallena Curie on 27/06/2011 13:45:39
Originally by: Che Biko Edited by: Che Biko on 27/06/2011 01:15:32 Erhm, according to the prices I'm getting, the only ore below 70 ISK/m3 is Omber at ~63,81.
Ehrm, this is per unit, not per m3. I don't pay per m3 because there's one less step in calculation I would need to do. It's also easier for players to translate what I am paying out to what they can see on the market. The market doesn't price by m3.
Veld is 10/unit, Scord is 12/unit, Pyrox is 30/unit, Plag is 26/unit. Those ores alone count for 90% of belt composition in highsec, give or take a few percent. Veld and scord alone make up 75-85% of total composition.
If someone is paying a flat rate for all ores, and that rate is much above 15 ISK/unit, they are bleeding out due to low belt concentrations of ores valued over 15 isk.
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Kira Anninen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 17:13:00 -
[23]
Calculations are one of the main things that make an industrialist and industrialist. Quote: 5) I will buy whatever you mine, on the spot, no questions asked! The pay rate per m3 will be announced at the time the event notice is sent!
It would be more profitable to go with your original plan of paying per m3 rather than 15 per unit of ore. if your numbers are correct (which they probably are not) 75% of the ore in a belt you lose 5 isk every time you buy. While the other 25% of the belt you get to earn 15 isk. If you mined the entire belt in this way then you would make 0 isk.
Quote: Tonight's op was a modest success for a brand new event, pulling in 75,000 m3 of ores in 2 hours, and payouts totalling 12.75 million ISK.
In this op you payed on 170 isk per m3.
Quote: Approximately 260,000 m3 of ores mined in 4 hours with a total payout of almost 30 million ISK.
In this op you payed almost 115.38 isk per m3.
In my system the most profitable ore based off perfect refining and the value per m3 is pyroxeres at 111.33 isk. And reason dictates that your miners are not mining for four hours on 5% and 10% bonus pyroxeres. With these numbers all your work has done is pay miners to let you haul for them with absolutely no profit in it for you. Although you do get a fan base and workers, I'm sure your wallet will do one of two things in the future, dry up, or start buying for a lot lower than you are now with a larger work force.
Kayl8erbai!
-Feoro
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.27 18:55:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Tallena Curie on 27/06/2011 18:59:28 I've already lowered my price based on my survey and calculations. I'm not sure where the "Calculations are what make an industrialist an industrialist" jab came from, but I was more concerned with getting the event set up than making money. Not to mention I hadn't had time to do a 15 belt roid survey up until this weekend.
I pay per unit because it is one layer less of obfuscation for new or inattentive players. They simply check the market and compare my price to what they could get on the market.
Paying by m3 seems like an underhanded way to bid well below market on ores.
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Kira Anninen
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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:31:00 -
[25]
The "jab" was because your calculations where flawed and I was pointing out an error and what was going to happen. Also:
Quote: The only thing I can think of is that he actively refuses to pay for Veld and Scord, or doesn't mind taking enormous losses. The quality and quantity of uncommon ores isn't that much better in 0.5, so it's not the .1 difference in security between my chosen systems and the lower bound of highsec. Paying out 60 or 70 something for whatever people bring you is absurd, because there will never be enough Kern, Pyrox and Jaspet to cover what you would be paying out in Veld rocks alone.
He is making a very large profit by paying 60 or 70 isk per m3, not per unit of ore. Anywhere between 20 to 50 isk per m3 that he hauls.
Getting new players interested in mining, and I'm glad that you are trying to do this. But my warning still stands true and calculations are what makes or breaks long time events.
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2011.06.27 23:31:00 -
[26]
Well, most miners I know calculate in ISK/m3, because that makes it easy to see which ore is most profitable, and I would encourage learning new players this as soon as possible.
It would not surprise me if there are a number of spreadsheets/sites out there that do the work (calculating current ISK/m3 per ore) for you, the one I currently use is this one: http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore
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Alexia page
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Posted - 2011.06.28 02:33:00 -
[27]
I use the same website.http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore
I have heard from many miners about this or that ore is so much better profit. but It seems many less experienced miners only look at the price of the minerals you get from a refine, or the price of ore per unit.
Your mining lasers and strip miners mine a predetermined amount of ore as in m3 per cycle not units of ore per cycle. there is a huge difference. This does not change between ores and can only be increased with skills, implants, and fleet boosters. So you NEED to base your calculations on the value of the ore per m3 not ore per unit.
For example veldspar has the lowest price per unit. But also has the lowest volume per unit. only 0.1 volume per unit. so 10 m3 gives you 100 units of Veldspar. since Veldspar is about 10 isk per unit(9.99)in Jita on buy orders at the moment that's about 100 isk per m3 or about 2,700,000 per jetcan full.
Compare this to what many consider the best high sec ore, Omber which is worth about 55 isk per unit in Jita on buy orders right now. Seems so much better looking at the isk per unit price, 5 times higher. But Omber has a much higher volume 0.6 per unit so 10 m3 only gives you about 16.7 units or 91.6 isk per m3 or 2,475,000 isk per jetcan of Omber. actually less per m3 than Veldspar. Now we look at pyroxeres. 30 isk per unit buy orders in jita. With a volume of 0.3 you get about 33.4 units per 10 m3 which only gives you 100.2 isk per m3 or about 2,700,000 per jetcan.Same as Veldspar.
Yes my math is a little off. But I only considered jetcans at 27000 per load even though they actually hold 27500. I did this because unless you have you industrial ship pilot skills to 5 you can not haul a full jet can. Most miners I have mined with stop at about 27000 so they can fit the whole can in there hauler. Also I use buy order prices as these are what you get for an instant sale. By the time you pay the market fee's you don't really get that much more placing sell orders. I present this as the fastest return for the least amount of time. With full t1 rigs and cargo expanders a mammoth will haul just over 27000 with lower skills. anyone who has played long enough to haul over 27500 m3 with a t1 industrial should not need to read this as you should already know.
Now my point in all this comes back to the basics of mining. with a hulk and good skills you can mine about 1500 m3 per cycle per strip miner. with basic 3 minute cycle thats 1500 m3 per minute. I know maxed skills and maxed boost is much higher but 1500 m3/min is a good goal for newer miners. No matter what the price of ore per unit is once you factor in the volume the price per m3 is generally about the same for all high sec ores. it fluctuates but the value of a full jetcan is between 2.5 and 3 mil no matter what high sec ore you are mining. Since veldspar is the easiest to find and in the largest quantities you can not beat it on an isk per hour basis.
You can watch the stats on the market and cherry pick the best ores for a little more profit per m3, but if you factor in the lost time spent searching compared to just strip mining everything without prejudice your isk per hour works out about the same. better to spend all your time mining then to sacrifice 10% of your time searching and watching markets for a 5% better return. Keep in mind that if you are selling in Jita unless you have absolutely maxed refining skills and faction for a perfect refine you will make more selling the raw ore than refining and selling the minerals. I have perfect refining skills but if I refine at a station I do not have really good standing at I lose isk if I refine before selling. Selling raw ore in Jita is the highest isk per hour return if you can get it there to sell. this is where a freighter can really be worth the investment.
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Tallena Curie
Gallente New Eden Scientific Association
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Posted - 2011.06.28 20:53:00 -
[28]
Just a friendly reminder that the next op is tonight, starting at 0:00 Eve time, going to 4:00. Check the mailing list for location!
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Fobos Achasse
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Posted - 2011.07.01 05:01:00 -
[29]
Nice mining operation, enjoyed every minute of it
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KuFu Cowboy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 07:46:00 -
[30]
great mining op with great reward, dont forget the company that is involved looking forward to the next op
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