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Taipan Leviathan Dark Star Confederation The Ancients.	Posted - 2011.06.22 12:49:00 - [1] Oy, I just got a scimitar (logistics V and all that good stuff to) and im wondering what the ppluspoint of the scimi is comparedto the basilisk. The basilisk obviously has a better bonus (energy transfer compared to the scimitar tracking link)but is there annything the scimi is actually better in? In other words: Should I train Caldari cruiser V --------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded.
Swynet State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:00:00 - [2] Not an expert on those but seems scimi is more willing to tank income dmg with it's speed tanking ability and lower sign radius and the basilisk some kind of powerhorse with different bonus, both are pretty good. Unlikely the Oneiros vs Guardian -waiting to see the changes CCP Tallest can afford to do and will very likely train for Oneiros after this.
Jude Lloyd	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:04:00 - [3] Basi =)
Drexit	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:05:00 - [4] for pve, scimi. Most ships in a shield fleet don't need cap anyway. the tracking link bonus is huge for helping high end pirate bs land hits on cruisers and below. Plus you don't have to waste hours finding another basi pilot to trade cap with.
Taipan Leviathan Dark Star Confederation The Ancients.	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:07:00 - [5] Wait a basi cant permarun 4 large remote reps? --------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded.
Ostracon Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Taipan Leviathan Wait a basi cant permarun 4 large remote reps? They can, but you need certain skills to V. Logistics is the main one, which you have.
ChromeStriker	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Taipan Leviathan Wait a basi cant permarun 4 large remote reps? They can but its tight. they truly shine in a cap transfer chain then theyre just awesome - Nulla Curas
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.22 13:44:00 - [8] scimi is way better smaller sig+better speed --> awesome and you dont need another basilisk just to keep you alive
To mare Amarr Advanced Technology	Posted - 2011.06.22 15:13:00 - [9] scimi if you are the only logistic and if you are the only logi you probably are in a smal and fast gang wich is perfect for the scimi speed basilisk if you have more than one because in that case you use the cap transfer bonus and be capstable with 4 large transfers
Rebbecca Black	Posted - 2011.06.22 15:45:00 - [10] From a PvP perspective it really depends what you're going up against. First off, both can run four large meta 4 shield transfers non stop, its just a matter of how you regen cap. On a Scimi you're relying on cap recharge while a Basi you get your cap from the 'cap chain.' Because of this Basilisks are much better at dealing with neuts than a Scimi (this is one of the reasons you should still use 2x large 'regard' energy transfers even with logi 5, as it safeguards against neuting/ECM a member of the chain.) Neither a Scimi or a Basi should ever really be flown as a solo logistics boat, although with a scimi you can get away with it in a gang at times because you rely on the local cap recharge and not cap from a chain. Tank) A basi can fit a higher EHP tank than a scimi can, but a scimi has better sig and speed. So if you're forming up a BC gang to counter ahacs, I'd rather use a basi, because medium guns aren't going to have a massive issue tracking a scimi w/ transversal. If instead you're forming up to counter a BS gang.. scimi wins hands down as large turrets have a very difficult time tracking them. Same issue if you're setting up to counter a BC gang (arty canes + HML drakes.) Medium guns/HML won't have a massive problem with the scimi, so the basi's tank wins out. Not to mention the basi has great kin resists to deal with Tremor and Scourge ammo.

Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.22 16:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/06/2011 16:11:22 I'll expound on this more in a minute, but it basically comes down to a few things: - The Scimitar is much faster (but not more agile). This is ONLY important in large open field battles where everyone is all over creation and you need to MWD from one side of the field to the other to rep someone or pull range from a nano fleet. It is notably 100% useless in most fights I've been in. It would have been useful a couple days back when we raided a 6 room drone plex to nab a Legion. But then the **** repping of the Scim would have cost us the fight outright. - The Basilisk can keep up fine with most cruiser/BC gangs and only starts to have trouble when trying to keep up with Cynabal/Vagabond/Dramiel gangs. The Scimitar can actually be dangerous in this regard (and logis in general) because fleet warping means the logi lands first.... ! - The Basilisk can be fit for a much larger tank - both passive and active. - The Basilisk has a better capacitor, and Capacitor Is Life. - The Basilisk has an energy transfer bonus which is awesome. - The Basilisk has a higher sensor strength, making it less susceptible to jams. Other Caldari ships also have higher sensor strengths, which means there's on average more jammers used per Caldari ship on the field. - The Basilisk has much more repping power than the Scimitar, because most good Scimitar fits have 3 RRs. And while people can fit 4 RRs to their Scim, they're making other concessions the Basilisk doesn't have to make. - The Basilisk is a better solo logistics, because it has a better cap situation, better tank, higher sensor strength, has more reps, and can energy transfer its gang mates (read: Amarr/Gallente ships). - The Scimitar has a smaller sig radius. This can be important when you're being shot at by missiles or when you're orbiting a battleship at 500m. Now that I'm done with a "logical" argument, I'll pull an argumentum ad experientiam and say that I've been in a couple thousand fights as the solo logistics pilot in small gang warfare (gang size < 8, always) and taking sentry fire and hostile ships most of the time. The Basilisk is so much better than the Scim that it isn't even a little bit funny. The combined better repping power and bigger tank far outweighs the mobility gains from the Scimitar. (Note: This is not actually an argumentum ad experientiam .... but it sounded good!) IMO, the Scimitar NEEDS to replace that useless tracking link bonus with an active tank bonus if its going to have any hope at all of being remotely as good as the Basilisk at being a solo shield logi. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
King Rothgar Path of the Fallen	Posted - 2011.06.22 17:45:00 - [12] The scimmy can be made cap stable with a light local tank (active or buffer) and 3x large shield xfers (no tracking links). The basilisk can be made cap stable with 4x large shield xfers, 2x large energy xfers and about 50% more buffer tank than the scimmy. The only advantage the scimmy has is it doesn't require a partner, it can operate as the only logi in the gang. The basilisk/guardian require a second logi fitted more or less the same so they can feed each other cap. So if you only have one, the scimmy is better, if you have two or more, the basi stomps the scimmy in every relevant way.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.22 17:57:00 - [13] Originally by: King Rothgar The scimmy can be made cap stable with a light local tank (active or buffer) and 3x large shield xfers (no tracking links). The basilisk can be made cap stable with 4x large shield xfers, 2x large energy xfers and about 50% more buffer tank than the scimmy. The only advantage the scimmy has is it doesn't require a partner, it can operate as the only logi in the gang. The basilisk/guardian require a second logi fitted more or less the same so they can feed each other cap. So if you only have one, the scimmy is better, if you have two or more, the basi stomps the scimmy in every relevant way. Fit your Basi like a Scim and you'll see the Basi actually outperforms the Scim as a solo logi too. :) -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Noisrevbus	Posted - 2011.06.22 18:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Liang Nuren Fit your Basi like a Scim and you'll see the Basi actually outperforms the Scim as a solo logi too. :) You mean how the Basi has an equal amount of mids, less lows, and more highs; resulting in less total cap, less regeneration and as a result: no stability (even with 3x S95)? To add insult to injury: it has a larger sig, a resistance hole, less total HP and most importantly... is a whopping 600m/s slower with an MWD. The main problem the Basi have is that while the Scimi is undisputed among any gangs faster than say, 1600m/s; the Scimi can also contend with the Basi in the heavier/slower gangs because it can use speed and range as defensive means even as the fight scale up - and it can actually reach quite decent speeds with an AB (where less cap concerns lead to more options propping up it's speed; or allowing you to rely on dualprop setups as more obscure choices). The option to utilize a sig-tank among tanky Drake-gangs (~1000m/s) make the Scimi alot more sturdy than a Basi - while still matching the gang's average mobility. The only time, ever, you want to use a Basi is in a heavy gang where the gang itself rely on cap-transfer and extra repair volume (with the 4/2 chain split); Drakes rarely need cap. Some BS do.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.22 18:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Noisrevbus Originally by: Liang Nuren Fit your Basi like a Scim and you'll see the Basi actually outperforms the Scim as a solo logi too. :) You mean how the Basi has an equal amount of mids, less lows, and more highs; resulting in less total cap, less regeneration and as a result: no stability (even with 3x S95)? To add insult to injury: it has a larger sig, a resistance hole, less total HP and most importantly... is a whopping 600m/s slower with an MWD. The main problem the Basi have is that while the Scimi is undisputed among any gangs faster than say, 1600m/s; the Scimi can also contend with the Basi in the heavier/slower gangs because it can use speed and range as defensive means even as the fight scale up - and it can actually reach quite decent speeds with an AB (where less cap concerns lead to more options propping up it's speed; or allowing you to rely on dualprop setups as more obscure choices). The option to utilize a sig-tank among tanky Drake-gangs (~1000m/s) make the Scimi alot more sturdy than a Basi - while still matching the gang's average mobility. The only time, ever, you want to use a Basi is in a heavy gang where the gang itself rely on cap-transfer and extra repair volume (with the 4/2 chain split); Drakes rarely need cap. Some BS do. I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. I've repped my gang mates vs a Vindicator and tanked a Hyperion, Dominix, Hurricane, Cyclone, and sentry guns simultaneously. This is something the Scimitar literally cannot do. You're doing it wrong. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Taipan Leviathan Dark Star Confederation The Ancients.	Posted - 2011.06.22 19:00:00 - [16] Interesting reply's. The pvp i currently do are small nano gangs so in that case the scimi does well. I am also usually the only shield logi so that also works well. What about Its other great use: Incursions? WHich one is supperior there? --------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded.
Noisrevbus	Posted - 2011.06.22 19:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Liang Nuren I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. I've repped my gang mates vs a Vindicator and tanked a Hyperion, Dominix, Hurricane, Cyclone, and sentry guns simultaneously. This is something the Scimitar literally cannot do. You're doing it wrong. Oh i'm sorry, you could just have said "gimmick alt" and i wouldn't have bothered to post. As for helping the OP choose a skillpoint priority though... .
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.22 19:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Noisrevbus Originally by: Liang Nuren I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. I've repped my gang mates vs a Vindicator and tanked a Hyperion, Dominix, Hurricane, Cyclone, and sentry guns simultaneously. This is something the Scimitar literally cannot do. You're doing it wrong. Oh i'm sorry, you could just have said "gimmick alt" and i wouldn't have bothered to post. As for helping the OP choose a skillpoint priority though... . Lets see. Me: A lot of reasons why the Basilisk is better. Me: Citing thousands of fights as the sole logi in a small gang environment under heavy damage You: The Basilisk can't fight solo and can't run even 3 RRs. Me: I do it all the time with my mains, every day, for hours. You: LOL gimmick alt Me: ............ Wut? -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.22 21:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Noisrevbus Originally by: Liang Nuren I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. I've repped my gang mates vs a Vindicator and tanked a Hyperion, Dominix, Hurricane, Cyclone, and sentry guns simultaneously. This is something the Scimitar literally cannot do. You're doing it wrong. Oh i'm sorry, you could just have said "gimmick alt" and i wouldn't have bothered to post. As for helping the OP choose a skillpoint priority though... . Lets see. Me: A lot of reasons why the Basilisk is better. Me: Citing thousands of fights as the sole logi in a small gang environment under heavy damage You: The Basilisk can't fight solo and can't run even 3 RRs. Me: I do it all the time with my mains, every day, for hours. You: LOL gimmick alt Me: ............ Wut? every day for hours? whats that corp ?? rent a pos repper or what? btw i would like to join,those low sec noobing sounds good to give it a try ,inv me pls :P
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.06.22 21:26:00 - [20] For true nano gangs, Scimitar. For shield 'gank' fleets, Basilisk.

Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.06.22 21:32:00 - [21] If you only have a single logisics ship, then Scimi. Faster, cap stable and smaller sig radius. Really really good for small gangs. In a big fleet, you'll want a small squadron of Basilisks running a cap transfer chain and spider tanking each other as well as providing huge boosts to friendly ships.
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.22 23:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Noisrevbus Originally by: Liang Nuren I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. I've repped my gang mates vs a Vindicator and tanked a Hyperion, Dominix, Hurricane, Cyclone, and sentry guns simultaneously. This is something the Scimitar literally cannot do. You're doing it wrong. Oh i'm sorry, you could just have said "gimmick alt" and i wouldn't have bothered to post. As for helping the OP choose a skillpoint priority though... . Lets see. Me: A lot of reasons why the Basilisk is better. Me: Citing thousands of fights as the sole logi in a small gang environment under heavy damage You: The Basilisk can't fight solo and can't run even 3 RRs. Me: I do it all the time with my mains, every day, for hours. You: LOL gimmick alt Me: ............ Wut? Please post this Basilisk fit, I really like the Basi, but I really havent seen a fit that makes it even remotely a better choice than the Scimitar.
Mfume Apocal Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.	Posted - 2011.06.23 05:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Naomi Knight every day for hours? whats that corp ?? rent a pos repper or what? btw i would like to join,those low sec noobing sounds good to give it a try ,inv me pls :P Liang Nuren Parsec Flux [PFLUX] War.Pigs.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 09:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Rastigan Please post this Basilisk fit, I really like the Basi, but I really havent seen a fit that makes it even remotely a better choice than the Scimitar. [Basilisk, Solo Basilisk] Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I 10MN Afterburner II Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Improved Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Hornet EC-300 x5 Comments on the fit: - Yes, its a loot pinata. No, IDGAF. I've got replacements ready to go if I should lose one. - The cloak is so we can actually get fights. Nobody wants to fight when they know you have a logi in system. This is a MAJOR advantage over the Scimitar. I could potentially fit a smartbomb there for clearing drones, but quite often I'm tied to zero of a gate and that'd be pretty useless. The cloak is a better choice. - The 5th shield rep can be an energy transfer. I've flown this paired with another Basilisk and it was pretty hilarious. Honestly, with that much repping (local+remote) its almost a matter of shield buffer more than DPS tanked. - People will occasionally primary the lone Basilisk on the assumption that it doesn't have a cap partner and is therefore useless. This makes for lol-***ing-tastic moments. On the last mid (cap booster in this fit): - A Cap Booster makes the most cap sense if you're expecting to face neuts... but frankly neuts strong enough to really affect the fight are kinda uncommon. But, this does give you some cap in case you're heavily neuted. - A SBA or EM Hardner gives you a WTFHUGE tank, though the SBA is generally more useful because most people don't bring EM damage and its capless. Frankly, the tank is already WTFHUGE so this is kinda a non-issue. - An ECCM makes tons of sense if you're expecting to see lots of jamming on the field. I've been jammed out before, but its far less common than you might think. The biggest danger is obviously ECM drones. - A Cap Recharger is my preferred* thing to fit there. It really helps with longer roams (40+ jumps each way) where we take sentry fire pretty much the whole time. On the Scimitar: - You can fit it in a similar way, but I'd recommend 3 PDU IIs and a TS PDU in the lows. - The same "last mid" discussion applies as above, though I suppose you could theoretically fit a tracking link as well. - The Scim lacks the Energy Transfer/5th RR. I've lost a lot of ships because I couldn't transfer enough shield reps from a Scim. - The Scim lacks the highs for a cloak. This means its harder to get fights, and that always sucks. My overall review is that the Basilisk is a FAR superior logi to the Scim for small gang work, even as the sole logistics. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
NoNah	Posted - 2011.06.23 11:00:00 - [25] mmh, high octane trollin in this one. I won't discredit the basi in the slightest, but to say it's flat out better than the scimi is just silly, even for you. I'll happily go into more detail as soon as i have a proper browser. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 413244
Cuircuir Moustache Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.23 12:27:00 - [26] In another post Liang teached the uneducated masses that Caldari was the way to go for small scale PVP in T1 ships.(too lazy to link). Today we learn that Basilisk outperforms Scimi in every possible way. Makes me wonder if there's some kind of conspiracy behind that, aiming at getting a nerf for Calda and / or a Minnie buff. What will we learn tomorrow ? Maybe that the Phoenix is a better POS repper than the Hel. Who knows.
NoNah	Posted - 2011.06.23 14:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Liang Nuren Comments on the fit: - Yes, its a loot pinata. No, IDGAF. I've got replacements ready to go if I should lose one. Expensive fittings are bad when the added isk yields very little in terms of added use. How much isk or replacements you have is completely irrelevant, unless you need to downgrade due to being on a budget. I don't fit estamel invulns on my t1 frigs not because I couldn't sustain it for a while, but because there's very little point in doing so and the cost is high. Quote: - The cloak is so we can actually get fights. Nobody wants to fight when they know you have a logi in system. This is a MAJOR advantage over the Scimitar. I could potentially fit a smartbomb there for clearing drones, but quite often I'm tied to zero of a gate and that'd be pretty useless. The cloak is a better choice. Guess it's just a mindset thing. You could just aswell force them to fight, fight them while outnumbered, log the logis into the fight, bridge them ontop of the fight or whatever. Sure it's an advantage, but due to it's situational nature I certainly wouldn't call it major. Most of the fights I get - with logis or without - are because the opponents expect to beat us in advance AND during the fight. Quote: - The 5th shield rep can be an energy transfer. I've flown this paired with another Basilisk and it was pretty hilarious. Honestly, with that much repping (local+remote) its almost a matter of shield buffer more than DPS tanked. Hands down agree. Basilisks are better in pairs than scimis are in pairs(with few exceptions) Quote: - People will occasionally primary the lone Basilisk on the assumption that it doesn't have a cap partner and is therefore useless. This makes for lol-**ing-tastic moments. Sadly, your tank isn't that impressive. At all. Quote: On the last mid (cap booster in this fit): - A Cap Booster makes the most cap sense if you're expecting to face neuts... but frankly neuts strong enough to really affect the fight are kinda uncommon. But, this does give you some cap in case you're heavily neuted. Granted, you need to keep it running just to have your transfers working. And as you more or less need to hang around the gate or station(which makes the ec-300's ironic) to gtfo once they've neuted you out or call you primary. Quote: - A SBA or EM Hardner gives you a WTFHUGE tank, though the SBA is generally more useful because most people don't bring EM damage and its capless. Frankly, the tank is already WTFHUGE so this is kinda a non-issue. You and I have WTFDIFFERENT definitions of WTFHUGE. Quote: - An ECCM makes tons of sense if you're expecting to see lots of jamming on the field. I've been jammed out before, but its far less common than you might think. The biggest danger is obviously ECM drones. Agreed, it's an enviromental thing. Some areas of eve have a lot of ecm, some don't. I happen to live in a ECM-tight area and well... Quote:** - A Cap Recharger is my preferred thing to fit there. It really helps with longer roams (40+ jumps each way) where we take sentry fire pretty much the whole time. Never quite had the issue. If it's a long roam, send an alt and carrierjump or titanbridge your stuff. Ran out of room to comment on the scimitar things, but they're mostly a reiteration of previous statements so vOv. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 355037
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.06.23 14:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Liang Nuren I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. Just FYI Liang, I think that this is the Basilisk fit that people wanted to see, not the one that you just posted.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.06.23 14:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Liang Nuren I fly a Basilisk every night that active tanks 1000+ DPS and permaruns 5 RRs. Just FYI Liang, I think that this is the Basilisk fit that people wanted to see, not the one that you just posted. I think he was making questionable estimates based on signature tanking. But considering that this has a sustained DPS tank of 325.4 relative to the static 352 trackingless DPS of sentry fire... ...well, I'm not particularly impressed.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.06.23 15:35:00 - [30] Well, with strong Blue Pill, full Crystals, a maxed Tengu and overloading it can hit 1000 DPS tanked. But generally people specify these conditions.

Aamrr	Posted - 2011.06.23 15:43:00 - [31] Edited by: Aamrr on 23/06/2011 15:43:56 In order... Blue pill is a possibility, and certainly economical by the standards of the fitting he linked, but it acquiring it can be difficult. Crystals are reasonable as well. Considering the size of the gang he's operating in, I somehow doubt that he's getting warfare link bonuses. Overheat doesn't really count, as they can just overheat their guns to compensate. Edit: But NONE of those things have ANYTHING to do with the Basilisk in particular, and any one of them could apply equally well to the better signature tank of the scimitar.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Aamrr Considering the size of the gang he's operating in, I somehow doubt that he's getting warfare link bonuses. We regularly fly with a Loki, Tengu, and Proteus. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:37:00 - [33] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Aamrr Considering the size of the gang he's operating in, I somehow doubt that he's getting warfare link bonuses. We regularly fly with a Loki, Tengu, and Proteus. Originally by: Aamrr Edit: But NONE of those things have ANYTHING to do with the Basilisk in particular, and any one of them could apply equally well to the better signature tank of the scimitar.
NoNah	Posted - 2011.06.23 16:52:00 - [34] Which is sort of ironic, as this means your fleet now has proteus, tengu, loki, basilisk. You stated <8 meaning there's 3 slots left to fill for actual dps(assuming you don't want things like fast tackle, probing or scouts). Then again, I have no idea even how many chars you fly basi with. I realize you've done so with Liang, but hardly thousands of fights. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 231896
Kastsumi Kobayariel	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:03:00 - [35] Originally by: Liang Nuren [Basilisk, Solo Basilisk] Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I 10MN Afterburner II Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Improved Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II If you apply the same fit to the scimitar, you gain the following (no gang bonuses/implants/boosters taken into account): -a better resist profile (89/79/69/74 vs 48/89/84/74) -more ehp (500) -more tank (40dps burst, 60dps sustained) -more speed (210ms) -more cap (7cap/s - compared to basi also running only four reps) -some drone room (kind of irrelevant here) in exchange for -one shield transfer -one utility mod -one fitting implant (scimi will need a pg4) I stand my previous statement in another thread that is not enough to make the Basilisk the indisputable leader of logistics ships.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:08:00 - [36] Scimitar is clearly better ship for small gang combat and for highly mobile gangs thanks to its speed and cap stability, basilisk has advantage of bonused energy transfer. Not that its big advantage, since shield gangs rarely engage inside neut range and scimis are capstable on their own. Also dont forget you need a buddy to make your cap chain work, so if your basilisk buddy dies or gets jammed, you will basically lose rr from both ships. Active fit without any kind of buffer, without eccm, well inside neut/scram range and with massive em hole. Thats going to end well for sure.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:36:00 - [37] Originally by: NoNah Expensive fittings are bad when the added isk yields very little in terms of added use. T2 CCCs (~50m ea) and the Pith B-Type LSB actually add enormously to the ship. TBH, its kinda cheap. Quote: Guess it's just a mindset thing. You could just aswell force them to fight, fight them while outnumbered, log the logis into the fight, bridge them ontop of the fight or whatever. A few comments: - Cloak >> Logon trap. I can sit 5km off a gate and jump in to a fight near instantly - even when they have a scout on the gate. - We do force fights. - We do take sentry fire because the other side is ***. - We do fight outnumbered. Its one of the big reasons I need a deadspace fit Basilisk. Quote: Hands down agree. Basilisks are better in pairs than scimis are in pairs(with few exceptions) You neglected to address the superior remote repping (LETA/5th RR). Quote: Sadly, your tank isn't that impressive. At all. Are you insane? Between the massive active tank (~1000 DPS) and the tiny sig radius, that ship tanks far better than the biggest tank Drake/Myrm/Crystal Cyclone I've ever flown. I literally sat at zero on a gate and tanked a Hype, Domi, Cyclone, Hurricane, and some other small I didn't even care about... until we killed their Vindi and they deaggressed and jumped out. And no, they weren't noobs. Quote: Granted, you need to keep it running just to have your transfers working. And as you more or less need to hang around the gate or station(which makes the ec-300's ironic) to gtfo once they've neuted you out or call you primary. A few comments: - If you're facing a gang big enough that you have to permarun your reps and your local tank, you are in way over your head. - Its cap stable with a CC8 and ECCM, so its cap stable without the cap booster. - The EC-300s usually only come in to play when we're off a gate/station. But, they've saved my bacon a couple times so I'm not gonna *. - If you're called primary and they're neuting you out, its actually pretty reasonable to jump through and jump back in. You'll be gone from the fight ~30-45 seconds and come back with full cap. It works better than you'd suspect, even in large'ish fights -Liang -- Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:39:00 - [38] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 23/06/2011 17:41:18 Originally by: Gypsio III Well, with strong Blue Pill, full Crystals, a maxed Tengu and overloading it can hit 1000 DPS tanked. But generally people specify these conditions. Gypsio, when people start deadspace fitting their T2 ships, its pretty **ing safe to assume that they've got pirate implants. Originally by: Aamrr Blue pill is a possibility, and certainly economical by the standards of the fitting he linked, but it acquiring it can be difficult. Just buy it in bulk. /shrug Quote: Overheat doesn't really count, as they can just overheat their guns to compensate. It actually helps a lot more than you think. Though to be fair, I have to overheat my tank far less often than I have to overheat my RR. Quote: Edit: But NONE of those things have ANYTHING to do with the Basilisk in particular, and any one of them could apply equally well to the better signature tank of the scimitar. I already addressed the reasons that the Basilisk is better than the Scimitar. And yes, the Scim has a better sig radius... never denied that. Originally by: NoNah Which is sort of ironic, as this means your fleet now has proteus, tengu, loki, basilisk. You stated <8 meaning there's 3 slots left to fill for actual dps(assuming you don't want things like fast tackle, probing or scouts). Tengu fits probes. Fast tackle is sentry fire bait. Scouts are T3s. Quote: Then again, I have no idea even how many chars you fly basi with. I realize you've done so with Liang, but hardly thousands of fights. I find it funny that you would tell me how many fights I haven't been in. At least 1000 fights. Probably closer to 2000-2500. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:44:00 - [39] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 23/06/2011 17:44:42 Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel -a better resist profile (89/79/69/74 vs 48/89/84/74) Considering I see more Drakes, Brutixes, and PP Hurricanes than Harbingers, I'm going to go with that being a worse resist profile. Quote: more speed (210ms) This one kinda matters. The only time I've regretted being in the Basi over the Scim was when we were going through a 6 room plex with 60km between the gates to try to nab a small gang with a Legion. Quote: in exchange for -one shield transfer Which is the only reason to fly a logi? Quote: -one utility mod That gets you fights... Quote: -one fitting implant (scimi will need a pg4) TS PDU TBQFH. -Liang Ed: Formatting -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Scimitar is clearly better ship for small gang combat and for highly mobile gangs thanks to its speed and cap stability, basilisk has advantage of bonused energy transfer. Not that its big advantage, since shield gangs rarely engage inside neut range and scimis are capstable on their own. Also dont forget you need a buddy to make your cap chain work, so if your basilisk buddy dies or gets jammed, you will basically lose rr from both ships. Active fit without any kind of buffer, without eccm, well inside neut/scram range and with massive em hole. Thats going to end well for sure. I've already addressed everything in your post. Its either impractical or unlikely. Look how stupid you are. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter

Kastsumi Kobayariel	Posted - 2011.06.23 17:58:00 - [41] Yeah overall I wouldn't try to argue and say it's a bad fit, far from it. But from personal experience, the basi's resist profile and lower speed were big enough disadvantages that for the most part I've stopped considering it. As for the OP, I have no idea if your style of play who suit the basilisk enough for you to consider flying it over the scimitar, but I can say for sure that having all cruisers trained to V is beyond awesome. So even if you never ever fly a basilisk, train caldari cruiser V and never look back.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 18:02:00 - [42] Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel Yeah overall I wouldn't try to argue and say it's a bad fit, far from it. But from personal experience, the basi's resist profile and lower speed were big enough disadvantages that for the most part I've stopped considering it. As for the OP, I have no idea if your style of play who suit the basilisk enough for you to consider flying it over the scimitar, but I can say for sure that having all cruisers trained to V is beyond awesome. So even if you never ever fly a basilisk, train caldari cruiser V and never look back. I agree with everything in this post except for the Scim/Basi debate. Train all the Cruiser 5s and never look back. You won't regret it. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Sewer Urchin	Posted - 2011.06.23 18:18:00 - [43] Liang...what do you do for a living?
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 18:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Sewer Urchin Liang...what do you do for a living? In Eve? Market alts and run wormholes once a week or so. In life? I'm a software architect for massively parallel data processing projects. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2011.06.23 18:33:00 - [45] You are unbelievably arrogant person, but since you are obviously compensating your **posting with your arrogance, ill forgive you. Originally by:** Liang Nuren I literally sat at zero on a gate and tanked a Hype, Domi, Cyclone, Hurricane, and some other small ** I didn't even care about... until we killed their Vindi and they deaggressed and jumped out. And no, they weren't noobs. Cool story bro. Originally by:** Liang Nuren We do fight outnumbered. Cloak Confirming you need to cloak your logi to hide it if you are going to fight bigger gang, because you are so scary. Originally by: Liang Nuren If you're facing a gang big enough that you have to permarun your reps and your local tank Confirming they werent noobs! True story. Not focusing dps is valid pvp tactics and its goal is to cap out logi by using both his local tank and rr. Originally by: Liang Nuren I'm going to go with that being a worse resist profile. Not a lie! Rf emp m? No way, he sees more drakes, pp canes lol and brutixes around, so it must be true. Also its weird there is so much brutixes around considering how bad blasters are atm and how useless rep bonus this ship has. Well, wait till hybrid "fix" - everyone will fly them and basilisk will be even better thanks to its superior resist profile. Originally by: Liang Nuren massive active tank Confirming it has massive tank vs em and you dont need any buffer anyway if you have 5k ehp vs em in shields. Yeah, you dont need eccm neither, person who brings ecm drones in logi says it, so it must be true! Also to all guys who responded in this lying nuren ego pump thread and crusade to change scimis tracking link bonus to something more useful - so it can be at least as good as basilisk - how stupid you have to be to not count in boosting tengus, lokis, crystals, blue pills, titans etc. when he posts his fit? Keep entertaining us.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 18:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Confirming you need to cloak your logi to hide it if you are going to fight bigger gang, because you are so scary. I kinda stopped reading here. See, the problem is that people just don't engage a fleet with a logi until they have enough that they feel they can effortlessly overcome anything the logi has. Most of the time, we end up with fights that are actually winnable because we aren't showing all our cards. Its just the nature of Eve. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2011.06.23 19:50:00 - [47] Considering 2 bcs is everything that you need to trash that basilisk in short time, posting that fit in local would probably bring you more fights than cloaking it. Ye, ye, i know, all cane pilots load rf pp, change to hobgoblins and offline their neuts when they see you in local.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.23 20:03:00 - [48] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 23/06/2011 20:05:13 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Considering 2 bcs is everything that you need to trash that basilisk in short time, posting that fit in local would probably bring you more fights than cloaking it. Ye, ye, i know, all cane pilots load rf pp, change to hobgoblins and offline their neuts when they see you in local. I actually do link it in local trying to bait people to fight us. Ed: Also, 2 BCs obviously isn't enough to break me. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Wannabehero Wayward Ventures	Posted - 2011.06.24 03:41:00 - [49] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Also its weird there is so much brutixes around considering how bad blasters are atm and how useless rep bonus this ship has. Actually, I regularly see brutixes in small complex-busting / gate-camping gangs chasing me in low-sec. Seems they don't have as big a blaster problem as people decry on the forums when they have gang-mates to web you to hell and back. --- ≡√≡ Don't harsh my mellow
Songbird Gallente T.I.E. Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.24 11:27:00 - [50] a few little notes: in fleet warp all ships warp with the same speed, so logi wouldn't land first even if you warped together with a dump truck. as we saw in AT, ecm ships can screw you badly - I find it curious that you have no eccm fitted. Maybe it's my bitter personal experience though. Damn you caldari recons. I agree with the train all cruisers to 5 and forget it notion. Actually I personally will take it a step further and train all BS's to 5 too(ok caldari bs to 5 is kinda hard to justify although it means more dps for a nightmare) and am thinking about training for all t3's and all frigs to 5. speaking of t3s , how amazing is that tengu

Headerman Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.06.24 11:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Sewer Urchin Liang...what do you do for a living? In Eve? Market alts and run wormholes once a week or so. In life? I'm a software architect for massively parallel data processing projects. Oh man i hate IT, i am getting out of it in a few months, am sick to death of working on computers, want them to be something i enjoy spending time with, so gonna give up being a solutions architech and go drive a mining truck :-) I think everyone should train all cruisers to 5 and logi to 5 too, and get some decent skills at cap, shield and armour comp, then buy at least 1 of every logi ship just for the fun of flying and comparing them
Swynet State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.24 11:56:00 - [52] Quote: Not a lie! Rf emp m? No way, he sees more drakes, pp canes lol and brutixes around, so it must be true. Also its weird there is so much brutixes around considering how bad blasters are atm and how useless rep bonus this ship has. Well, wait till hybrid "fix" - everyone will fly them and basilisk will be even better thanks to its superior resist profile. The only way you see me fly brutix is shield fitted with 200mm rails and faction AM, and it powns, because better dmg application/range engagement than blasters. Still paper thin, still under drakes or canes perfs but better than armour tanked with electrons. @Liang Waiting CCP tallest to announce he's definite tweek choice for the Oneiros before I train for it. Fell free to mail me any tactics/fitting advice in small gang (up to 6/7) I'd appreciate. Thx
Icylce Frost Palace	Posted - 2011.06.24 11:57:00 - [53] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Originally by: Liang Nuren I literally sat at zero on a gate and tanked a Hype, Domi, Cyclone, Hurricane, and some other small ** I didn't even care about... until we killed their Vindi and they deaggressed and jumped out. And no, they weren't noobs.** Cool story bro.
Mfume Apocal Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.	Posted - 2011.06.24 19:12:00 - [54] Jesus christ, this thread.
UTHAJA	Posted - 2011.07.11 09:22:00 - [55] Scimi versus Basi typical examples from Incursions / Vanguards If a fleet-setup is done with 2 Basis and one of those fails. what can a single Basi do ? So, if there is a fleet-setup with Basis, you'll need at least 3. What does a Basi do first when it gets into the "boiler-area", does it immediately begin to shield-transfer or does it begin to search its "colleagues" and you know why. To be honest : I'm somewhat prejudiced regarding the (my) Scimi. On level 4 it's already 68% cap stable and it does its job. And one little other thing - I think the Russians - they know their mathematics Regarding some of the PvP Statements in this thread - you'd better explain the following - because I think - that was a class performance Tournament : Red Federation vs Babylon 5 = http://www.youtube.com/user/CCPGAMES#p/c/8D8F037BE55BA68D/28/2ZggAn1UdS4 They could have opt for a Basi . . .
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.11 09:57:00 - [56] Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/07/2011 10:02:21 Edit: nvm saw this is old topic, not gonna restart that discussion Will respond on last post, with the note that I actually only fly scimi while I can also fly basi, so i do like my scimi. Quote: What does a Basi do first when it gets into the "boiler-area", does it immediately begin to shield-transfer or does it begin to search its "colleagues" and you know why. Depends on situation, but if the fight is already going on (for example you warp to your bait and rep him) you first rep him. While I dont have that experience with a basi, I also fly a guardian. You got enough cap buffer to start reps before you sort out cap chains. Not to mention that is literally 3 seconds work. Quote: On level 4 it's already 68% cap stable and it does its job. Your fittnig is bad, it has way too much cap
Rania Serlia Endless Destruction Imperial 0rder	Posted - 2011.07.11 17:11:00 - [57] I think a of of people are missing a big point here. If you think you'll get more mileage out of minmatar cruiser V, train scimi. IMO most T2 minmatar ships are fantastic and you will rarely regret flying them ever. Our recons have a fantastic bonus that is useful in any small or medium gang(and great in cloaky/blackops gangs), and the vagabond is a really nice ship overall. If you think you'll get more mileage out of caldari cruiser V, train bassi. I personally don't think much of the T2 caldari cruisers(plus the T1 lineup is a bit lacking), and I actually -have- both cruisers to V. Falcon is a great gang support asset though(you will be hated and feared and die a lot). I'm sure the bassi is superior under sentry fire, however in 0.0 I've always felt that those minor "fringe benefits" the scimi offer make it far and away better for roaming gangs in 0.0. It has superior speed, better cap regen, smaller sig, and a better base resist profile, which makes it more friendly to receiving reps. If it's the last logi on the field it's still capable of doing it's job no problem, which is always a plus.
Rubix Khamsi	Posted - 2011.07.11 19:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Ostracon Amarr Originally by: Taipan Leviathan Wait a basi cant permarun 4 large remote reps? They can, but you need certain skills to V. Logistics is the main one, which you have. Umm no, you can easily perma-run 4 large reppers with skills at 4, with two basi pilots at logi 5, you can run 5 large repps stable.
Diesel47	Posted - 2011.07.11 19:34:00 - [59] I agree w/ Liang Nugren about the basi. He actually made a meaningful argument.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.11 19:47:00 - [60] Came in here to maybe get some interesting perspectives on the benefits of different Logi's. Left laughing my ass off. ~~~

UTHAJA	Posted - 2011.07.12 08:07:00 - [61] Hi, I appreciate the comments of Furb Killer and Rania Serlia. In addition - in the youtube I posted above is a riddle, I will not solve for you - and as we know now - Lady Spank can easily answer that one. Anyway - I enjoyed most of the postings here.
Saulc Neslo	Posted - 2011.07.12 14:24:00 - [62] Thanks for the inspiration Liang.


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