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Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
0
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Posted - 2012.09.13 21:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been pod killed so many times that I've lost all grasp on the human condition. My current incarnation is just a small and temporary mechanism that serves a greater immortal will. Life and death are a seamless continuum to me, so why is it that even on the fanciest of machines, when I die the first thing I usually notice is my evemail flash informing me that a new clone has been activated, meanwhile my screen has already begun to load the station ship-spinner, or! if you are one of those damn hippies like me who run captains quarters because they like the whole 'seamless' thing CCP was going for despite the obvious shortcomings of incarna, then you find yourself standing upright in your quarters like "wtf dude...". Not very seamless.
So CCP, how about we stay up late one night and come up with something a little cooler than that. I know you guys could come up with an awesome way to die. I would also wager that you could improve the seamlessness of the life/death experience without demanding more from the machines/slowing your battle against lag.
I'd love to see my pod split open and a frozen corpse fly out with goo crystalizing and all that, but hell, I'll take a kind of visual effect where you see it explode like most any other ship and then your screen narrows to tunnel vision like you're being pulled away like Tony Gonzales describes in EVE Empyrean Age. Something, anythin |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
264
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Posted - 2012.09.16 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Supported.
Being podded is obviously a terrible experience (especially for new players). In corp generally new players get a bit quiet, say they were podded, say they're going afk and then not log on again for a day or so. Wouldn't it be cool to see the new guys saying in corp "Holy ****! I just got podded! That was awesome."
Food for thought, it might negate some of the sinking feeling you get >.< |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
284
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Posted - 2012.09.16 20:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Seara Arrodan
Arrodan Commodities
1
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Posted - 2012.09.17 01:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Supported.
In corp generally new players get a bit quiet, say they were podded, say they're going afk and then not log on again for a day or so.
And that is unfortunate. I think I got podded 3 time my first day in EVE (OK so I'm a slow learner) I like this Idea as long as it does not slow me down too much getting back in a ship. Though you are correct getting podded is not supposed to be a positive experience and should cause some amount of a sinking feeling (other than ISK loss) To the new guy though, a discussion about what to expect when he gets podded and how it happens to me more then most ... I mean how it happens to everyone and that when they do get podded that the best response it to get back in a ship but learn from the experience; What did you do right? What did you do wrong? What can you change/improve upon to get podded less often? Hmm.... Not sure if troll?... |
Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
3
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Posted - 2012.09.17 01:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, I agree that it should be a traumatic experience, and if anything I hope they make it even more gruesome and jarring. I'd even love to see your clone step out of it's little re-animation pod, bald headed, and redo your haircut and clothes joins the list of things you routinely do after you're reborn, including update your clone and buy new implants. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
525
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Posted - 2012.09.17 16:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Yes, I agree that it should be a traumatic experience, and if anything I hope they make it even more gruesome and jarring. I'd even love to see your clone step out of it's little re-animation pod, bald headed, and redo your haircut and clothes joins the list of things you routinely do after you're reborn, including update your clone and buy new implants.
While I'm ok with a 20s animation showing my clone activating, I'm not ok with being forced to redo hair and clothing options... which takes considerably longer.
*edit* I typically want to reship and get back into the fight after I die... and don't want any significant slowdowns tbh... |
Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
4
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Posted - 2012.09.17 19:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well, yeah let me clarify, your portrait should stay the same, but in the quarters it might be fun to still be pod-bald, maybe just until you walk over to the mirror and click the 'set appearance to portrait settings' button or whatever. But yeah, agreed, the whole thing shouldn't take very long. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
93
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Posted - 2012.09.17 21:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd support a full movie the first time any character on an account was podded (or docked in a ship with CQ turned on), in order to establish the immersion. After that, make it a short cutscene that's there to hide the LOADING screen, so there's no slowdown.
[edit: And add an option to the ESC menu to disable (or re-enable) the movie, in case an existing player starts a new account and they don't want to see the full cutscene again.] |
Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
5
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Posted - 2012.09.18 00:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not a bad idea, a full little cinematic experience like they already have the first time an account logs in. Hmmmm... |
Milz0r
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2012.09.18 04:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1
Great idea!
Surely CCP could create a simple cutscene to hide the loading screen (as mentioned above) before the next expansion right? |
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mybeter
Freunde des Bananenwurstsalats
1
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Posted - 2012.09.19 13:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
-1
Your idea is fine but I think it has the potential to interrupt players to much when in fleet and you have to reship and join reinforcements. In addition to that you don't ever had cutscenes in eve (maybe except the one you get the first time you start eve). I think it's just not necessary to put development effort in this. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
46
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Posted - 2012.09.19 15:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
mybeter wrote:-1
Your idea is fine but I think it has the potential to interrupt players to much when in fleet and you have to reship and join reinforcements. In addition to that you don't ever had cutscenes in eve (maybe except the one you get the first time you start eve). I think it's just not necessary to put development effort in this.
You don't think dying should have consequences beyond new clone, activate next ship, undock? even for a 30 second delay?
really?
wow.
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Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
9
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
No no, you misunderstand. Maybe a cinematic thing the first time for the sake of the noobs, but the other times I just want to see my own pod there in the field explode/crack start to explode/flash something! Not asking for much, a transition effect! I hereby coin the term "death-wipe" a kind of slow insidious tunneling of the vision then the bright white light of the medical drone checking you out, and boom you're back in the hangar ready to deploy. And let me re-iterate that this whole process shouldn't be long at all, 20 seconds would be too long I think, more like 10. Seems like a relatively small fix for a big step forward in seamlessness. The way it is now is just lame, you gotta give me that lol. |
Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
15
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Posted - 2012.09.26 14:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Great idea. I support this concept... not slow too much to reship but some slowdown is ok. After all that new clone that just got reanimated might need a little stretching and warm up before running into his next pod fully clothed. |
Lexar Mundi
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
21
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Posted - 2012.09.30 06:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I've been pod killed so many times that I've lost all grasp on the human condition. My current incarnation is just a small and temporary mechanism that serves a greater immortal will. Life and death are a seamless continuum to me, so why is it that even on the fanciest of machines, when I die the first thing I usually notice is my evemail flash informing me that a new clone has been activated, meanwhile my screen has already begun to load the station ship-spinner, or! if you are one of those damn hippies like me who run captains quarters because they like the whole 'seamless' thing CCP was going for despite the obvious shortcomings of incarna, then you find yourself standing upright in your quarters like "wtf dude...". Not very seamless.
So CCP, how about we stay up late one night and come up with something a little cooler than that. I know you guys could come up with an awesome way to die. I would also wager that you could improve the seamlessness of the life/death experience without demanding more from the machines/slowing your battle against lag.
I'd love to see my pod split open and a frozen corpse fly out with goo crystalizing and all that, but hell, I'll take a kind of visual effect where you see it explode like most any other ship and then your screen narrows to tunnel vision like you're being pulled away like Tony Gonzales describes in EVE Empyrean Age. Something, anythin if they did this, i would pod myself about 5 or 6 times just to see the animation +1 lol |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormhole Holders
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 23:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
No no no
You won't see the pod since your link to the camera drones is now SEVERED, What you would should see is the pretty much the similar stuff from the matrix: Especially since the pod probably starts shutdown sequence a few seconds before the actual hull breach, to prevent data loss for example.
As such you would actually lose all the intercoms/overviews/channels (similar to the toggle we have right now for screenshots) and then blackout and awaken in the pod, which is collapsing around you. Spilling the contents and your now doomed husk to be: you would subconsciously struggle (Note we aren't in gas-filled environment, as such we won't automatically eject due to pressure difference: it would be more akin of breaking an egg and contents slowly oozing out. ). The temperature difference should not matter since there is no decent medium to absorb our heat fast enough, as such the actual cause of death would be pressure difference: Blood-stained vision and general blackout. (no air in the lungs afaik we are filled with oxygenated goo so chest won't explode )
To summarize: you are Neo, spilling into HUGE vacuum around you (remember how BS look like while you are near pod, now imagine the pod debris with similar size beside you) mesmerizing sight of space (maybe w/o nebulas: we don't have enhanced vision) which turns red and then black very fast.......
.............and then you wake up |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
288
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eidric wrote:No no no
You won't see the pod since your link to the camera drones is now SEVERED, What you would should see is the pretty much the similar stuff from the matrix: Especially since the pod probably starts shutdown sequence a few seconds before the actual hull breach, to prevent data loss for example.
As such you would actually lose all the intercoms/overviews/channels (similar to the toggle we have right now for screenshots) and then blackout and awaken in the pod, which is collapsing around you. Spilling the contents and your now doomed husk to be: you would subconsciously struggle (Note we aren't in gas-filled environment, as such we won't automatically eject due to pressure difference: it would be more akin of breaking an egg and contents slowly oozing out. ). The temperature difference should not matter since there is no decent medium to absorb our heat fast enough, as such the actual cause of death would be pressure difference: Blood-stained vision and general blackout. (no air in the lungs afaik we are filled with oxygenated goo so chest won't explode )
To summarize: you are Neo, spilling into HUGE vacuum around you (remember how BS look like while you are near pod, now imagine the pod debris with similar size beside you) mesmerizing sight of space (maybe w/o nebulas: we don't have enhanced vision) which turns red and then black very fast.......
.............and then you wake up
Those are some very confident assertions. Very confident indeed for someone who is wrong. The lore says that the pod actually injects and euthanises the pilot miliseconds before the pod's shell is breached. So you really would just see your sight quickly black out, but you wouldn't wake up standing up straight in your cloths in your captains quarters. |
Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
12
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 20:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eidric, thank you for your contributions. Everyone else, pay no attention to the very faulty science Eidric is espousing. In fact liquids have pressure too, and space is cold, but can be hot depending on proximity to a star and wether or not you find yourself in a shadow, but I wouldn't ask the devs to get into that. As I recall, Arduemont is right, pod pilots are euthanized in the split second after the pod detects a hull breach, but before the pod is totally destroyed. Also, they are also depicted as wearing masks that cover their eyes, so I don't see how the perspective would switch to their own eyes still on the field, seeing as how they are blinded, poisoned, and had their synapses melted by the cognitive state xerox machine. Eidric, I don't mean to pick on you bud, but your assertions, though interesting, are wrong on a lore level as well as a basic 9th grade physical science level. But we can all agree that there's room here for improvement! :D and the way it is now is just lame... |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
92
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 21:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
the idea isn't bad but is it really necessarily to add rp fluff to ideas in the assembly hall?
It seems a bit counter productive to the whole "Explaining your idea clearly" thing... |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormhole Holders
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 04:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
While I was indeed wrong about the blood pressure but take a look at this: http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html
You are in the collapsing pod - there is a chance of slight mask slip and tiny peek into the great beyond until you lose consciousness.
Space can be hot/cold but you are completely forgetting that there is no conduction (little to no particles) and no convection (no "wind" or "current") Only significant way you can acquire or lose heat is through radiation.
And to be burned by a star before you collapse from lack of oxygen you have to be really close: sure there is much harsher radiation in the unshielded space but it has rather slow effect on human body compared to lack of oxygen.
And please explain me how the liquid will act then in the vacuum? (I suggest you to look at the barometer - it has both) You are forgetting about surface tension, and the fact that liquids do not try to take the entire volume like gasses - they are rather robust at compression and expansion. |
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Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
13
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Posted - 2012.10.03 05:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
You may have got me on the temp thing man, but your source there doesn't say how long it takes to become a "frozen corpse". Though I don't claim to know the composition and intermolecular forces of pod goo, I'd imagine it may sublime more like H2O than the mercury in a barometer, or at least expand to some degree. Also, the mask slipping off is a good thought, but, as i said, it has been established in multiple canons that by that time you are both euthanized and brain-fried, a cognitive state can't be copied that quickly without destroying the original. Anyway, this is getting really far away from the original intent of my post. It's lame, make it awesomer. |
Galaxy Pig
GPS Corp NightSong Directorate
13
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 06:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:the idea isn't bad but is it really necessarily to add rp fluff to ideas in the assembly hall?
It seems a bit counter productive to the whole "Explaining your idea clearly" thing...
What, you don't like my hook? T_T
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1749
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 18:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think it all depends on the person...everybody takes negative things in their own way. Personally...I look at it as a game...grab another ship and move on. Maybe get some revenge. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormhole Holders
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 21:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sigh here we go again
Galaxy Pig wrote:You may have got me on the temp thing man, but your source there doesn't say how long it takes to become a "frozen corpse".....
Then I guess you haven't read the 2nd link: Space itself isn't "cold" or "hot" it can't be - the temperature can only apply to matter, Vacuum is absence of matter (or very very tiny amount) as such space itself if very very good insulator. There is a reason your coffee stays so hot in thermos for such long time - due to vacuum in the hollow walls.
Yes eventually the body will radiate enough heat to freeze but it won't be fast enough at all.
Galaxy Pig wrote: ....Though I don't claim to know the composition and intermolecular forces of pod goo, I'd imagine it may sublime more like H2O than the mercury in a barometer, or at least expand to some degree...
I am not sure you know the meaning of words you say: google sublimation - it cannot apply neither to water nor mercury inside barometer. And liquids don't expand in same way as gasses do, they might experience depressed boiling point + increased evaporation causing the said goo to actually boil outside (and this could lower the temperature of it btw) but that would depend on the goo itself and its surface tension (which would probably be higher than that of water)
Galaxy Pig wrote: Also, the mask slipping off is a good thought, but, as i said, it has been established in multiple canons that by that time you are both euthanized and brain-fried, a cognitive state can't be copied that quickly without destroying the original.. You know how canon works? it is main intent is to describe the current game effects if you follow it to the letter you will wind up with exact mechanic we have now - maybe your memory is still weak and you simply forgot you waking up in the lag and only started properly remembering things when you are up, dressed and back in your CQ.
Funny thing again but your initial design was also contradictory to the cannon but you kinda ignored that. In fact your version is even more far fetched as you imagine the now corpse not only injected with toxins but nerve fried. While still maintaining stable connection to the camera drones outside of the pod. Seems very unlikely to me.
While the idea of a Neo awakening could actually hold ground even with neurotoxins, because think about it - who actually tested the results? And how can they be tested? we are talking about seconds even milliseconds here: maybe toxins are not fast enough to effectively shut the consciousness down before the pod cracks open. But it can't be proven because capsuleers do not retain that memory - memory has been transferred before application of neurotoxin.
About nerve damage - don't forget, that one of the things our body knows how to do best even without consciousness is to collect information from sensory organs (unless you specifically kill these). maybe the dying body will not be able to process it but while sensory system is active it will see it.
Besides Capsuleers might start to develop some sort of resistance to the memory transfer as technologies get better and our brain is better adapted for such transfer (If you remember correctly your jump clones aren't really damaged that much by it, this could also "help" )
Galaxy Pig wrote:...Anyway, this is getting really far away from the original intent of my post. It's lame, make it awesomer.
Note I didn't try to kill your suggestion at all - i tried to elaborate it, enhance it even. In turn you are calling stuff "lame" because it apparently a bit different from your suggestion. If you are that stubborn - I am afraid you idea would never work at all.
Learn to adapt |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
290
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Eidric wrote:Stuff + References
Owned.
When I said you were wrong, I just meant they'd be dead before the capsule even breached. I wasn't questioning the science of it. I tend to do a fair bit of research before anything like that.
Anyway though. Being podded really does need to get upgraded. It could start as simply as the screen quickly fading out as you reach very low structure. They can work on changing the captains quarters bit later if it comes to it. I would love to have a room attached to the captains quarters that the fresh clone wakes up in.
Eidric wrote:maybe your memory is still weak and you simply forgot you waking up in the lag and only started properly remembering things when you are up, dressed and back in your CQ.
Lets face it, coming to standing up dressed in your captains quarters is ridiculous. If your nervous functions are that poor that your short term memory is that bad after waking up, how exactly would you get dressed, and walk over to your ship balcony to look stoically over at the hangar? |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormhole Holders
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 20:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Actually that is entirely plausible to find yourself standing fully dressed without memory how you did that. If just the memory is affected, but not reasoning sort of like early onset of Alzheimers.
And still living body emerging from the pod is likely too: although there is also a similar possibility of the body being destroyed by the actual ammunition (exactly on the moment of hull breach).
Problem with the suggestion of additional stuff in CQ lies very close to the problem of incarna itself: There are numerous people that never leave the pod in stations - and many never will even with incarna getting a second breath. For them it is the space game only. As such there will be a quite large chunk of people, who will not even notice the difference. In fact even detest it if it would be a requirement. Since they would not see it as immersion but additional hurdle after death that is handled by the stuff they never really liked in the first place.
And afaik the most deadly battles usually happen in places where RP is not as common (bubbles help greatly) So our primary target audience should actually be the 0.0 population - And speaking from my previous experience of nullsec life - they will treat it as waste of time.
The cinematic before death however would be actually treated differently due to psychological reasons as well: They are still on battlefield, perhaps seeing the final moments of the battle, and the change in perspective due to size difference would not only add immersion, but also contribute to the cinematic effect of ones life in battle. While the cinematic after battle would be usually psychologically treated as dead cutscene: you are already at the station - how come I have to watch it and not just jump into next ship - my people need me!
Just think about it from coolness factor - what is more awesome to add to the game - image of the epic battle above you, or the image of you getting dressed and wobbly walking from the "axlotl tanks". |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 08:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sigh... You greatly insult my intelligence sir, but I suppose I started it. Your BS understanding of science speaks for itself, though apparently by the ignorant court of popular opinion, I am defeated. I do like some of the cunstructive thoughts you seem to be stirring up though, and you ARE trying. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormhole Holders
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 16:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
it is your words, that greatly insult your intelligence.
I have shown proof of my ideas with 2 links: one if directly from NASA.GOV, while second one was written by NASA-employed, MIT physics graduate.
You on the other hand never went beyond personal attacks without any scientific backing or constructive thought.
If you want to continue discussion that could actually benefit this idea of yours come back with at least scientifically-backed results. Any further attempts to ruin your own idea will be ignored.
(Yes I've decided to step down to this level simply because I actually liked the idea (but not the execution of it)) |
z Flint
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.06 17:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Supported.
Being podded is obviously a terrible experience (especially for new players). In corp generally new players get a bit quiet, say they were podded, say they're going afk and then not log on again for a day or so. Wouldn't it be cool to see the new guys saying in corp "Holy ****! I just got podded! That was awesome."
Food for thought, it might negate some of the sinking feeling you get >.<
+1 support |
Mort ach
True Grit Logistics Preatoriani
0
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Posted - 2012.10.07 15:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eidric,
Pig's ideas are better than any of yours. Instead of debating science, how about you debate the effects in which he refers? Its obvious this game isn't pinned down completely to science, otherwise stations would actually orbit planets and moons and my spaceship wouldn't slow down when the engines stopped or I would at least see some retro rocket fire I mean come on! So stop trying to show off how smart you think you are because you half-*** read some science articles and admit that the effect could use some change! |
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