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Have EVE players completely lost it? - The whining seems out of hand..

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Chingyz Caldari Mind Games. 0ccupational Hazzard	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:07:00 - [31] To me EVE has been a sandbox with a player driven economy from the day i joined, this is slowly changing and if you cant see that then it really doesn't matter. The EVE I love to play is changing into something else that is very different from what made me chose to play it. Last time that happenede to me was SWG and just like then I'll state that my reason to play the game is not there anymore. Call it rage or me a quitter all you want but I'm very selective in regards to my pasttime and what I do with it. I don't blame CCP for what they are doing, it's their game and they can do with it whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I have to support them through it.
Captain Futur3	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:11:00 - [32] Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 24/06/2011 13:12:44 Originally by: San Severina Originally by: Siestre Vitale Originally by: Captain Futur3 I quote myself here: Quote: Why are microtransactions needed in a game where i have to pay 15 Euro per account? So far, only free to play games have microtransactions (with very very very few exceptions) and it feels like a pure ripoff! The sense behind microtransactions is to pay the developerss for their work, but we are already paying for THREE developer teams working on 2 other games than eve. And all of them are bigger than the Eve Developer team. So isnt it time to give us something back in terms of some HUGE addon? Just for an example, you did 2 new ship models in 3 expansions, this clearly shows ME that you just dont care about eve anymore. I bet 10 billion ISK that in the same time, you created about 100 new (at least as complex as the maller) models for the other games. Please answer this question. I will bump and repeat it until some dev says something about this. PS: I dont care about vanity items in general, but i care about the work that is going in the developement of this while there are obviously thousand other more important things to do. Eve needs the artists creating clothes for the remodelling of spaceships! The idea behind micro transactions is that games, which are for free have some source of money to pay the developers. But we already pay for so many and even when some people say that we dont need to buy the items, we already bought them because we paid for their developement. Fact is, that only very vew people are working on Eve and now you even moved some of them to create vanity items and stuff like that where there is so much else to do? You cant be serious... Eve is already a ripoff because we pay for Eve, World of Darkness and Dust together! how many other 15 euro a month MMO's give you free expansions? just curious They can't charge extra for compulsory expansions, not how it works. The idea of comparing EvE to other MMO's is laughable anyway. It used to be it's uniqueness that attracted people. obviously you haven't made that connection in you rush to troll instead of use the putrid mess you call a brain. I feel very sorry for you (if you are not a CCP alt what i think). Its obvious to nearly every person inside and even outside of the game (see game magazines) that CCP wants to ripoff their customers. The content of the "youcalledAddon" is that weak that its not even mentioned in the game magazines i have read. Just a little sentence about CQ and the rest is about MTs. Its obvious that CCP isnt working on Eve anymore. At least not with heart and not with more than 10 people. Also, why can i not compare the financial aspect and developement of twi different MMOs? Its about money and what the developers do to their customers for that money. How is that not comparable????
WisdomLikeSilence The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:13:00 - [33] These changes are unnecessary, agressive, CRIMINAL ACTS against THE VERY BUILDERS who constitute the FOUNDATION OF LEGOWORLD
Fredfredbug4 Gallente Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:14:00 - [34] Just let them whine, I find the fail logic behind their complaints interesting.
Khamelean	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Spike Larosse All the revelational cross platform stuff and ambulation may sound pretty impressive, but when it comes down to the simple question "does it give me, a simple EVE PvPer that wants to keep shooting ships, any more for my subscription money?", the answer is no. Frustration. When you have a game with the breadth of Eve, there is so much to see and do, of course there are going to be new features added that you are not interested in, just like when features are added that do interest you, they may be of no interest to others. You pay your subscription money for what is there. If you were happy paying it last month, why is it suddenly a problem to pay it this month when your getting exactly what was there last month but other players have had some stuff added.
Captain Futur3	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Fredfredbug4 Just let them whine, I find the fail logic behind their complaints interesting. Explain us (me) our fail logic please, so we become as smart as you are.
Atra Hasis	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:17:00 - [37] After walking in my room at 0.0001 mph for about 5 minutes, the stuff got old. I then realized THAT WAS ALL THE ENTIRE INCARNA PATCH WAS. By the way CCP, when I type 'Incarna' or 'INCARNA' a little red line comes underneath it. WTF!? Do your own forums not know wtf your own stuff is called?!
Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2011.06.24 13:46:00 - [38] I think alot of people have missed the point of the Incarna Expansion. Incarna was what i'd term a crossroads expansion. It laid the infrastructure for the pursuit of CCPs stated goal of being "the complete sci-fi experience". BLUENET and CARBONUI are the significant parts of incarna NOT CQ and certainly not AURUM. The infrastructure work was required to effectively pursue all the dimensions of EVE a) the spaceship game b) walking in stations c) the planetary stuff EVE is expanding and Incarna was the crossroads required for that expansion of eve. I suspect that now we will start seeing alot more in regards to balancing the spaceship game and alot more of the other stuff. Incarna was a large expansion- it's just that alot of it was "under the hood" and not "paintjob" visible stuff. The expansion might not have been communicated properly, but it's hard finding justification for the cluster**** perceptions many players are advocating. Incarna was the beginning of EVE 2.0. Over the coming months we'll be seeing the fruits of all the "under the hood stuff". At least this is how i have intepreted the fanfest, the blogs and the interviews.
Law Deschain	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Baudolino Edited by: Baudolino on 24/06/2011 13:48:14 Edited by: Baudolino on 24/06/2011 12:59:04 UPDATE My first response Second response: what is incarna? If you don`t like your avatar then turn of the station environment. If you don`t like vanity items then don`t buy them. People are going hysterical for a hypothetical perceived future day where they might experience MT for gameplay enhancing items- why don`t people actually save these complaints until something like that ACTUALLY happens. MT is for vanity items that have no impact on gameplay what so ever. Until that changes there is really no point in childish screaming. You can`t fault a company for having an internal discussion on company matters- only their actualy decisions that you might disagree with. If anything CCP should be lauded for having open deliberations on such sensitive issues. If you think Aurum prices are too high then say so, don`t confuse it with MT supposedly ruining the game. Personally i think all you people screaming your heads off in the forums are succumbing to a mass hyseteria of epic proportions while purporting some insult that is really only a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what is actually going on. Get a grip people.. I will attempt to describe part of what is driving me nuts about microtransactions in EVE. When I get home from a day of working my ass off for too little money, I could turn on the TV and watch some mindless shows full of product placements and in between tons of commercials, or watch the news and see corporate influence tanking what good is left in my country. . or I could escape all the bull** and fire up EVE. . . where now people who are paying $15 a month are being treated by CCP to $80 monocles and plans to sell ships and competitive advantages for cash. These actions, backed up by the comments in the leaked newsletter, are all too familiar. I have very little control over what goes on in the world, but I do get to choose where to spend my $15 and right now I'm not thinking they will be going to CCP. That said, you're right, I don't have to buy the vanity items, and I don't really even see the people who are yet. So strictly speaking this isn't about game play experience (until the ships for cash start at least), this is about customer experience. If I took my family to a movie theater where they were charging $50 for a box of popcorn, and then got to hear the people behind the counter calling their customers idiots, ** me if you'll find me there again.
Spike Larosse RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:08:00 - [40] Edited by: Spike Larosse on 24/06/2011 14:11:37 Originally by: Khamelean Originally by: Spike Larosse All the revelational cross platform stuff and ambulation may sound pretty impressive, but when it comes down to the simple question "does it give me, a simple EVE PvPer that wants to keep shooting ships, any more for my subscription money?", the answer is no. Frustration. When you have a game with the breadth of Eve, there is so much to see and do, of course there are going to be new features added that you are not interested in, just like when features are added that do interest you, they may be of no interest to others. You pay your subscription money for what is there. If you were happy paying it last month, why is it suddenly a problem to pay it this month when your getting exactly what was there last month but other players have had some stuff added. This is true in the instance where for example I, as a PvPer, do not mine, but mining stuff is added to the game. This however could be argued to have implicit effect on my gameplay as well. If more people enjoy mining in more places, I will benefit as a PvPer as well. That's the beauty of a seamless open PvP sandbox world. Even if the implicit benefit for me is small, I could accept it because I feel it is in line with what I see as the EVE universe and gameplay. So this is basically where it breaks for me. I don't see the MT and ambulation stuff as belonging in the world of EVE as I would like to picture it. At that point I am not willing to pay for a product moving away from what I want, with so much of the resources focused on developing ambulation. Personally, I've stuck with eve for several years now (started in 2005, had at least 4-5 good years) with a feeling it is lacking in some departments I'd like to see fixed, such as small scale PvP, low sec, 0.0 mechanics. But if there is hope this might be adressed, there is reason to hang around. So my personal reason for saying "enough is enough" at this point, is that partly I was paying my subscription based on a hope of what the future might hold. Sadly, recent events have convinced me we're not heading in that direction. The magic has faded , and the faith in the devs with it. That's my personal reason for moving on. I actually dropped my accounts before the document leak etc, so it is only coincidentally, but it has a lot to do with Incarna, MT and the future direction of the game which the last few days events seem to have confirmed as not being in line with what I want.

Speaker4 theDead	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Baudolino Edited by: Baudolino on 24/06/2011 13:48:14 Edited by: Baudolino on 24/06/2011 12:59:04 UPDATE My first response Second response: what is incarna? If you don`t like your avatar then turn of the station environment. If you don`t like vanity items then don`t buy them. People are going hysterical for a hypothetical perceived future day where they might experience MT for gameplay enhancing items- why don`t people actually save these complaints until something like that ACTUALLY happens. MT is for vanity items that have no impact on gameplay what so ever. Until that changes there is really no point in childish screaming. You can`t fault a company for having an internal discussion on company matters- only their actualy decisions that you might disagree with. If anything CCP should be lauded for having open deliberations on such sensitive issues. If you think Aurum prices are too high then say so, don`t confuse it with MT supposedly ruining the game. Personally i think all you people screaming your heads off in the forums are succumbing to a mass hyseteria of epic proportions while purporting some insult that is really only a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what is actually going on. Get a grip people.. You really have no clue do you? They have already stated that turning off the CQ is temporary... Soon you won't have a choice, and unless you have the latest greatest rig, you will lag like a ***** when they implement actaul walking in stations.
Discrodia Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:21:00 - [42] Let's say there's a company that makes beer (Or whatever liquor you please). Their beer is unique and interesting. Although not as many people like it as the other beers, those who do like it love it. A few years later, after their liquor achieves remarkable success, the company asks it's drinkers what it doesn't want them to do with the formula (So they know for the future). The drinkers all say that they don't want to pay more if they change the formula, and don't want to get charged more for fancy bottles or experimental ingredients. A few more years later, the company says that 'maybe' they will charge more for fancy bottles, as they don't change the drink at all and they want to be able to appeal to more drinkers. The drinkers grumble a lot, but say as long as the formula of the drink doesn't increase in cost they'll be okay. Previously, the company had allowed individual bars to use the drink for certain specialty drinks, as long as the bar didn't charge more than the cost of the original drink. But then they decide they want to make the bars pay to use their liquor for a specialty drink. Then the company abruptly changes the drinks formula in a way that makes it more bland and irritates many former customers. They pass this off as attempt to appeal to a wider audience. Meanwhile, an internal memo emerges wherein the company details a plan to start charging drinkers more for specific ingredients, and they will start offering extremely expensive drinks that are supposedly massively better than the current one, and even better than the original. Drinkers are understandably **ed for several reasons: -The company broke a promise it made with them. -The company made the drink blander, on the excuse of trying to appeal to a wider audience. -The company started trying to extort money from people it had originally allowed to use its beverage to create off-shooting products. -The company changes the formula of the drink for the worse, while at the same time charging significantly more for the original, better formula. It's an approximated analogy, but that's more or less what CCP has done. Originally by:** anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
FireFoxx80 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:21:00 - [43] I CBA to put much effort into this, but... Originally by: Baudolino If you don`t like your avatar then turn of the station environment. CCP have already said in a devblog that the 'turn station off' is a temporary thing. In a future update it will be CQ all the way. Given that it takes 90 seconds or so to load CQ, it's hardly a seamless feature. Originally by: Baudolino If you don`t like vanity items then don`t buy them. But... if you read the Fearless newsletter, CCP are suggesting that it won't just be vanity items. Soon you'll be able to buy additional fitting slots, better ammo, etc. What I do the rest of the time
RensPriceChecker2	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:26:00 - [44] fanboys like you are possibly the most dangerous thing that can happen to a games company. Keep applauding and ...... their ....ks. This does nothing to help improve the product or service. And it paints a deceptive image for the company.
Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2011.06.24 14:43:00 - [45] Originally by: RensPriceChecker2 fanboys like you are possibly the most dangerous thing that can happen to a games company. Keep applauding and ...... their ....ks. This does nothing to help improve the product or service. And it paints a deceptive image for the company. This has nothing to do about me being a fanboy- it`s about keeping a level head and sorting the issues properly. People are mixing things together in a fashion there really is no grounds to. I hate in-game advertisement I hate RMT (i believe PLEX is a blight that has gone out of control) I hate Micro-Transactions I won`t however hate on CCP simply for having open internal discussions on the issues. I won`t mix and mash info until i have a construction that feeds my own paranoia of what could hypothetically come to pass. That someone in CCP wants Micro-Transactions shouldn`t come as a surprise to anyone. What would come as a suprise is any indication it could actually become corporate policy, but so far this is not the case. If micro transactions get expanded beyond vanity items i`ll unsub and move my money to another game, but i don`t see the point in having a fit because someone is willing to pay some dollars for a zebra striped Scorpion- In fact, it would probably feel much better killing off a zebra striped scorpion knowing some idiot paid RL money for it.
Siestre Vitale	Posted - 2011.06.24 16:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Captain Futur3 Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 24/06/2011 12:56:33 Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 24/06/2011 12:55:42 @Siestre Vitale: WTF IS IT WHAT YOU CALL AN EXPANSION??? HAVE YOU EVER LOOKED AT THE PATCH NOTES OF OTHER MMOS?? THEY ARE WAY BIGGER THAN EVES ADDONS! Eves addons are not even major patches anymore. They were in the past but now they are just normal patches like you see in every mmo. Dont be stupid, just because they sell you $hit as gold makes it not better. Also they are NOT FREE! I pay 15 euro per month for servers AND developement, improvement of the game. im guessing you decided to ignore the fact that incarna is being... wait for it.. ROLLED OUT INCREMENTALLY and fyi CARBON is the real expansion here, incarna is just fluff
Siestre Vitale	Posted - 2011.06.24 16:18:00 - [47] Originally by: San Severina Originally by: Siestre Vitale Originally by: Captain Futur3 I quote myself here: Quote: Why are microtransactions needed in a game where i have to pay 15 Euro per account? So far, only free to play games have microtransactions (with very very very few exceptions) and it feels like a pure ripoff! The sense behind microtransactions is to pay the developerss for their work, but we are already paying for THREE developer teams working on 2 other games than eve. And all of them are bigger than the Eve Developer team. So isnt it time to give us something back in terms of some HUGE addon? Just for an example, you did 2 new ship models in 3 expansions, this clearly shows ME that you just dont care about eve anymore. I bet 10 billion ISK that in the same time, you created about 100 new (at least as complex as the maller) models for the other games. Please answer this question. I will bump and repeat it until some dev says something about this. PS: I dont care about vanity items in general, but i care about the work that is going in the developement of this while there are obviously thousand other more important things to do. Eve needs the artists creating clothes for the remodelling of spaceships! The idea behind micro transactions is that games, which are for free have some source of money to pay the developers. But we already pay for so many and even when some people say that we dont need to buy the items, we already bought them because we paid for their developement. Fact is, that only very vew people are working on Eve and now you even moved some of them to create vanity items and stuff like that where there is so much else to do? You cant be serious... Eve is already a ripoff because we pay for Eve, World of Darkness and Dust together! how many other 15 euro a month MMO's give you free expansions? just curious They can't charge extra for compulsory expansions, not how it works. The idea of comparing EvE to other MMO's is laughable anyway. It used to be it's uniqueness that attracted people. obviously you haven't made that connection in you rush to troll instead of use the putrid mess you call a brain. compulsory addons? not sure what u mean, if your refering to DLC then it wouldnt be compulsory. and if it was compulsory then it would be called an expansion.. which last i checked they didnt charge for. no im not comparing eve to any other mmo, far from it. but the idea of MT's in game, if it helps develop CCP as a company and alows them to further expand eve then hell im all for it
Josefine Etrange Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.24 16:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Siestre Vitale how many other 15 euro a month MMO's give you free expansions? just curious If I have to guess of a total number, I would have to say about a dozen or so. Rift and Aion come to my mind because I liked them. Why a forum in the year 2011 still has no automatic double post merge which can be done even with javascript mostly is beyond my understanding.
Postumius Aculeo	Posted - 2011.06.24 17:07:00 - [49] Guess I don't see what the whining is all about. I'm not forced to buy anything from NeX (despite all the people who seem to think that Incarna EXISTING means we HAVE to buy things), and I won't unless price come WAY down. My $45 graphics card is having NO trouble with loading CQ, and though I'm disappointed there isn't more to it, I'm not seeing a cause to flip out over it. I'm also not too worried about the newsletter, as I am able to see it for what it is - an internal discussion piece that should never have gotten to the public. Nothing is final, they don't seem to even be talking about this development cycle, so there's plenty of time for cooler heads to prevail. Heck, if they keep setting prices as they are, MT in Eve will never rise above the level of a bad joke, so how can it be a threat? A $3500 scorpion with zebra stripes and an extra mid slot will just be all the funnier when one of the dedicated roaming gangs I'm sure will pop up wardecs the owners company and blasts it into pixels. Think, people - and realize that CCP, like anyone, will respond better to a logical argument backed with the implied loss of customers than all of the emo-raging, dire predictions, and blatant threats that have appeared here. To CCP: MT is great as long as it remains cosmetic, and if you knock a couple of zeros off of the prices. Remember the "M" in MT stands for "micro", not "macro". Further, introducing MT items that affect game play without being affected by it (the LP stores are a good model) will cause a backlash, as is evidenced by the threadnoughts afflicting these forums. It would be better to leave well enough alone and not enable those with more real money to gain too gross an advantage. That, not Incarna or CQ, is the main thing you should be addressing now.
Panda Name Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [50] Originally by: Zarus Alexander Edited by: Zarus Alexander on 24/06/2011 12:41:53 No. Not one person I know in-game, and that's a lot of people, in my corp, factional warfare group, and out of corp friends, could care less about it all as long as they can still violence each others boats. All these whiners and ragers on the forums are acting childish and immature, and it's really a sad sight to see when grown men can't keep their cool over a spaceship game. I hope none of them are currently serving, because by their actions in the forums, they wouldn't last on a real battlefield. This is what internet anonymity leads to. woah guys, watch out. A real warrior is here! Clearly in whatever military you served in, reading and comprehending things isn't a requirement. Why don't you just keep following your little orders and get a monocle you douche.

Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2011.06.24 19:00:00 - [51] the **** movie parody was great, but i seriously hope people calm down soon..
Ahrman Vanaheim Caldari Chimaera Combine Novus Dominatum	Posted - 2011.06.24 19:05:00 - [52] Just waiting to see the response from CCP now. Everything that needs to be said by us has been said. Anything else until the announcement is just counter productive. Insulting and/or abusing forum mods certainly isn't a good idea (and certainly not fair to them either). I started off feeling extremely peeved about the MT and am now starting to feel a certain degree of sympathy for the poor rank and file employees who are just trying to earn their pay.
Aston Martin DB5	Posted - 2011.06.24 19:08:00 - [53] Yea.... I'm getting a little sick of seeing the general chat flooded with alts complaining just to complain.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.06.24 19:14:00 - [54] But we are only the vocal minority
Florio Miniature Giant Space Hamsters	Posted - 2011.06.24 19:17:00 - [55] Edited by: Florio on 24/06/2011 19:18:54 Originally by: Dr Prometheus If it stays at having some novelty items wich dont give an advantage; like; - Skins. - Clothes - Scooter Segway from the aprils fools day I dont give an ISK. But if it comes to be you can buy a certain type of battleship with more slots then a regular one then they have gone to far. I agree completely. But why are people getting so upset over an internal discussion document? It's not a mission statement document, and they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they weren't examining every angle. They're allowed to bloody talk about microtransactions. I can't believe people are really going to unsub en masse just because some people in CCP are looking closely at the full spectrum of what could be done with MT. Bunch of whining emo-sheep bandwagoners if you ask me. I'll be the first to quit if MT can influence gameplay though.
Exar Kuun	Posted - 2011.06.26 10:22:00 - [56] i read a post about contacting devs in RL and now it seems alot of posts are sarcastic ones about all that things in eve that can be included in MT. seems to me alot of the people complaining are simply not interested in either listening or discussing. the whining seems to have qyickly taken a crueller turn and i think some of those who were initially angered and vocalized this early on might even come to regret it. More so as the primal stupidity of mob behaviour come to shape and define playerbase vocalizations.. this thread seems to have kept a level tone and i hope it continues to do so among all the other with more agitated content..
Huyai Tsukurit Caldari Grau Foundation	Posted - 2011.06.26 10:25:00 - [57] if the complaining seems to have gotten out of hand, maybe its time to realise the complainers might have a point?
Zey Nadar Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G	Posted - 2011.06.26 10:29:00 - [58] Originally by: HeIIfire11 But we are only the vocal minority That we are. A vocal minority closed down the gates to Jita the other day.
Chas Davia	Posted - 2011.06.26 10:30:00 - [59] Edited by: Chas Davia on 26/06/2011 10:31:44 Read this http://ciaooc.blogspot.com/2011/06/open-letter-to-ccp.html - the fundamental issue is not the game play changes, monocles or incana itself, these are simptoms. The problem is the way CCP is acting towards, and commnicating with its customers.
Markus Jome	Posted - 2011.06.26 10:36:00 - [60] Edited by: Markus Jome on 26/06/2011 10:37:20 Baudolino, it isn't about what already happened (although this should be also criticized), but about what CCP might do to EvE. I think the massive concern of the players comes frome past experience and solid predictions, especially since CCP massively fails to address theses concerns.



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