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What do you call a player in a State Raven with full Estamel gear ?

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Isidore Tailleur Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.06.25 21:59:00 - [61] Edited by: Isidore Tailleur on 25/06/2011 21:59:38 Originally by: Akita T LOOT PI-ATA ! Changes from before should be obvious 1. Worn vanity items are not dropped or destructible. No loot pi±ata and not EVE like at all... 2. Industry not being needed for stuff to enter the game breaks the sandbox and hurt everyone who is paying there subscription with ISK because they will now also have to compete with CCP selling short-cuts, instead of just players selling short-cuts to other players ...
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.25 21:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Neoexecutor If i had as much invested in this game as you, i too would try to help damage control the situation to save my assets that are on the brink of becoming worthless. I have so much ISK I literally have no idea what to do with, very little desire to make more of it, and seldom even bother to log in more than change skills and frak around with the corp channel anymore. But then again, believe what you will. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.25 21:59:00 - [63] How about a cap limit on the ISK in your wallet? CCP could sell you an increase of the ISK cap for AUR, or just force you with a cap limit to buy PLEX and other crap should it not sell itself. --
Nizran L'Crit	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:00:00 - [64] With the deception and lies, I can totally see them ever so slightly decreasing drop rates on that gear little by little making gear prices skyrocket and "forcing" people to buy nex gear just to keep an edge....within a year's time, this would lead to it becoming the de facto standard to buy nex gear because supply is so much less than demand....it's the whole reason for the uprising, we know that if we let it happen, eventually, little by little, it will dominate the game and no-one wants that. a lot of us want a straight answer because we don't want to spend more time on this game and then have that happen.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Kirtur Muhaha Eve players have just become soft in their old age... "Wah, they can get cool ships on day 2"... I remember a player buying a rorqual account, on his first day he cyno's into my lowsec system and warps to a gate and sits on it... After we kill him he explains in local "It wouldn't let me use the gate to get away"... THATS the kind of thing MT would introduce to EVE more, and Im all for that lol Why are you so sure that only idiots will use MT. When correctly used it could give a crucial advantage in wars. Any logistical infrastructure will lose any meaning as everything could be replaced on the spot through MT. Any war will be a competition of wallets, not skills, and that is not even Eve wallets.
Jonathan Malcom Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:02:00 - [66] From my perspective, it is a question of integrity. Lets ignore, for a moment, the negative effects on the economy and the missed opportunity for adding depth to the sandbox by making all this stuff made by players. Let's also ignore the problem that they're using our subscription fees to make items that they then try to sell back to us for more money. Essentially, this amounts to bribing the referee. In a competitive environment, fairness, a level playing field, is paramount. Imagine a game of hockey were the team coach could pay the referee money to remove a star player from the penalty box. Imagine a football game where a coach could pay the referee money to move the first down line back half the distance to the ball. Microtransactions are just a way for companies to nickel and dime their customers. MT for vanity items is irritating because it takes content that I helped pay to develop and makes me pay again to take advantage of that content, if i desire to do so. MT for game effects is unacceptable because it breaks the integrity of the game world. It allows players to bribe the referee for an advantage. In my opinion, CCP should be above that. ___________________
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:02:00 - [67] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Neoexecutor If i had as much invested in this game as you, i too would try to help damage control the situation to save my assets that are on the brink of becoming worthless. I have so much ISK I literally have no idea what to do with, very little desire to make more of it, and seldom even bother to log in more than change skills and frak around with the corp channel anymore. But then again, believe what you will. So why bother playing? Who cares if 'people are wrong on the internet'? It isn't because of Monocles FFS.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Estephania Any logistical infrastructure will lose any meaning as everything could be replaced on the spot through MT. Any war will be a competition of wallets, not skills, and that is not even Eve wallets. IF the NEX would have enough types of items at reasonable enough prices to be able to support such a behaviour, maybe. But that's a big if, on both fronts. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:05:00 - [69] Originally by: Kerrisone So why bother playing? Isn't it obvious ? I play ForumWarz. For "free". Quote: Who cares if 'people are wrong on the internet'? Who doesn't ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:06:00 - [70] Originally by: Akita T I have so much ISK I literally have no idea what to do with, very little desire to make more of it, and seldom even bother to log in more than change skills and frak around with the corp channel anymore. But then again, believe what you will. Buy a bunch of monocles to **** up the :lolmetrics: ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.

Jean Misto	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Estephania Any logistical infrastructure will lose any meaning as everything could be replaced on the spot through MT. Any war will be a competition of wallets, not skills, and that is not even Eve wallets. IF the NEX would have enough types of items at reasonable enough prices to be able to support such a behaviour, maybe. But that's a big if, on both fronts. It's more of a question of when, if CCP continues with their plans.
Kirtur Muhaha Gallente World-Slayer	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:07:00 - [72] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Neoexecutor If i had as much invested in this game as you, i too would try to help damage control the situation to save my assets that are on the brink of becoming worthless. I have so much ISK I literally have no idea what to do with, very little desire to make more of it, and seldom even bother to log in more than change skills and frak around with the corp channel anymore. But then again, believe what you will. Im quite adept at relieving the weight of people's wallets, hit me up if your arms start getting tired :P _________________________________________________
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Buy a bunch of monocles to **** up the :lolmetrics: By my last count, if I liquidate all assets and turn everything into PLEX, I could probably buy over 400 monocles But do I look stupid ? I'm not buying even a single one of that junk _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:10:00 - [74] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 25/06/2011 22:11:09 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Estephania Any logistical infrastructure will lose any meaning as everything could be replaced on the spot through MT. Any war will be a competition of wallets, not skills, and that is not even Eve wallets. IF the NEX would have enough types of items at reasonable enough prices to be able to support such a behaviour, maybe. But that's a big if, on both fronts. 1) You did not address my post 2) Every MT game has its content modified to accomodate MT in key points that are sought after by the players. New MT games are "well structured" to make the MT smoothly fit in the existing infrastructure like a peg in its hole. Re-factored-as-MT games like LOTRO or EvE achieve the same by removing previously free content and putting it behind a paywall. This is certainly impopular and may easily (it's even written) affect heavy grind / time sink fields like rising faction standings, giving significant advantages to the fatter wallets. Go buy instant +7 CN standings with a PLEX if you can. Oh wait, with Aurum - by CCP's own description - you will. This is even more game breaking in 0.0. Back at the time we were in Stain and we had to grind our ass hard in order to have access to the pirate agents, it was risky and tiresome. And we had to sacrifice our hi sec standings often including CONCORD. With Aurum a 0.0 corp can reap the benefits within a minute and then they can go kill the others. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:11:00 - [75] Edited by: RAW23 on 25/06/2011 22:13:08 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha State Raven: Did he do something like working for months with a team and become the top PvPer of all? Estamel: did he learn how to go to 0.0, how to grind officer gear, possibly had to find a team to kill the NPC? Or Did he grind his butt for 1+ years in order to buy the tens of billions worth of modules? No, he purchased the ship in 5 minutes. his Visa spoketh and he got it in 5 minutes. He and other 51 monocled guys. In one day. And I can get a State Raven with full Estamel gear RIGHT NOW. I wasn't a top tier PvPer either. I seldom go to 0.0. I don't hunt officers. And I won't be using my credit card to buy it. But I can still get it right now. YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT ! Obviously, the loss of dynamism and human interactions that are involved in the fact that SOMEONE has to go and grind the Estamel gear for you (or win an old AT for the Raven) wouldn't matter. Most of the actual game content provided by CCP is actually pretty poor. Market trading is boring and repetitive beyond a minima level; mission running is (very) boring and repetitive after a short time; POS grinding as an industrialist is boring and repetitive from pretty much the first moment; hauling is indescribable (freighter from Rens to Jita, anyone?); PvP has some mileage but is frequently made boring and repetitive by lag (and sometimes by player-led strategies). The stories you tell about eve are the ones that involve interaction and the impressive pieces of content are those that the players construct themselves. Taking away reasons for people to get immersed in the dynamic web undermines that whole system of dynamism by making it a non-necessary element rather than the central element of the game. Edit -Hmmm ... on the other hand you could cap the Technetium price by selling it for AURUM
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:13:00 - [76] Originally by: Jean Misto Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Estephania Any logistical infrastructure will lose any meaning as everything could be replaced on the spot through MT. Any war will be a competition of wallets, not skills, and that is not even Eve wallets. IF the NEX would have enough types of items at reasonable enough prices to be able to support such a behaviour, maybe. But that's a big if, on both fronts. It's more of a question of when, if CCP continues with their plans. ^^^ This. The moment the first batch of game-play items enters NEX, it will be just a matter of time until BizDev calculates what revenue can be generated by sales of cap ships and "premium" ships with "improved" modules via NEX. Greed is good, remember?
Tea Ester Elliot	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:13:00 - [77] Edited by: Tea Ester Elliot on 25/06/2011 22:14:46 Originally by: Akita T ONLY if the equivalent AUR price of a new item in the NEX ends up similar to (or god forbid lower than) the equivalent pre-existing item. As long as NEX pricing comes up at radically higher prices compared to similar pre-existing items, the "bypass player economy" argument is completely moot. And even if pricing would be similar, you're still forgetting that YOU CAN BUY THEM WITH ISK TOO, INDIRECTLY. It might raise the price of PLEX in ISK, but then you're not really complaining about the economy, you're complaining of PLEX prices. So the fundamental issue of Estamel+ modules/ships/ammo/etc poofing out of thin air for someone's fiat currency is not a problem... because they could then choose to sell it on the market? I see... anyway RAW beat me to the punch with the smartpost.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:14:00 - [78] Sec status gain for AUR, sucide ganking will never be the same again. ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
Shi'ki	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:15:00 - [79] Its called stfu.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:15:00 - [80] We have this fable over here in Romania about incompetence in its absolute forms, "Human Stupidity" by Ioan Creanga. The story centers on a peasant's quest to find people who are less rational than his wife, having been infuriated by her panic at the possibility that a ball of salt could fall from its place of storage and kill their baby. It's a hilarious read, and quite appropriate for this particular situation, and applies to both sides of the problem, both people decrying the death of EVE, and CCP for getting to where they are now due to their own reckless actions. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts

Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:16:00 - [81] To be honest? The difference is that player gave a bunch of ISK to other players for that state raven and Estamel gear, THEN lost it in a hilarious fire. Not so if he bought it directly for cash. I can't heal stupid
Rhivre Caldari TarNec	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:18:00 - [82] Originally by: Aiwha To be honest? The difference is that player gave a bunch of ISK to other players for that state raven and Estamel gear, THEN lost it in a hilarious fire. Not so if he bought it directly for cash. Even if he had to trade in items + aurum? Provided there is items + aurum, it is not a problem. It is only a problem, if and only if there is no trade in, And/or no ability to resell.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Rhivre Originally by: Aiwha To be honest? The difference is that player gave a bunch of ISK to other players for that state raven and Estamel gear, THEN lost it in a hilarious fire. Not so if he bought it directly for cash. Even if he had to trade in items + aurum? Provided there is items + aurum, it is not a problem. It is only a problem, if and only if there is no trade in, And/or no ability to resell. So far no aurum item has required the trading of another existing item. The proposed Golden Scorpion also popped out of nowhere. Because the code for the swapping just does not exist. Nothing says it will be written, therefore you are trading your belief (one day someone will bother writing the code) with a certainty (items can already be created from scratch including ships). You never want to trade beliefs with certainties. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:23:00 - [84] Originally by: Akita T But do I look stupid ? I'm not buying even a single one of that junk Ah, but you would be griefing the player base of this game, possibly WoD and Dust as well, for years to come. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:23:00 - [85] Edited by: Akita T on 25/06/2011 22:25:40 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha So far no aurum item has required the trading of another existing item. The proposed Golden Scorpion also popped out of nowhere. Because the code for the swapping just does not exist. Nothing says it will be written, therefore you are trading your belief (one day someone will bother writing the code) with a certainty (items can already be created from scratch including ships). You never want to trade beliefs with certainties. IF you are to believe them, they are merely going to take a while until they add that feature, and will be adding "painted ships" in the NEX as soon as the NEX is capable of gobbling up things other than AUR. One has to wonder what the bloody hell is so hard to do something that the LP shop has been doing for ages, but, meh. Typical CCP. Originally by: RAW23 Obviously, the loss of dynamism and human interactions that are involved in the fact that SOMEONE has to go and grind the Estamel gear for you (or win an old AT for the Raven) wouldn't matter. Most of the actual game content provided by CCP is actually pretty poor. Market trading is boring and repetitive beyond a minima level; mission running is (very) boring and repetitive after a short time; POS grinding as an industrialist is boring and repetitive from pretty much the first moment; hauling is indescribable (freighter from Rens to Jita, anyone?); PvP has some mileage but is frequently made boring and repetitive by lag (and sometimes by player-led strategies). The stories you tell about eve are the ones that involve interaction and the impressive pieces of content are those that the players construct themselves. Taking away reasons for people to get immersed in the dynamic web undermines that whole system of dynamism by making it a non-necessary element rather than the central element of the game. Edit -Hmmm ... on the other hand you could cap the Technetium price by selling it for AURUM I am not denying the fact that the HAVING the possibility to do something like that would damage EVE to an extent. I am merely disputing the fact that it would really be such a big deal, if properly implemented (i.e. everything in the NEX would be far more expensive if translated into ISK than the corresponding "regular" items). Of course, at this point, I don't really trust CCP to try to solve 1+x=2 and get "1" as a result, but that's another story. CCP has been taken over by financial interests 2-3 years ago, and it now finally shows. It will take years to recover from that, and it will probably get a lot worse before it gets any better. IF it will ever get any better. But, as you say, it's a case of "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb". _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Karsa Egivand Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:24:00 - [86] Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz what do you call a golden ibis with a damage modifier of 15,000 bought for aurum? what do you call a golden sov change with no shooting or time paid for with aurum? what do you call a golden caldari state standings option with no work involved? A hallucination of yours?
Inur Plex	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:24:00 - [87] The idea of a new currency is fairly appalling. I was perfectly ok with new uses for PLEX being found, but a new currency entirely? I'm certainly opposed to that. And we can be sure that there will be additional, future, items which will be purchasable from this new currency. One of the really terrible aspects of this is how this contradicts everything that CCP has done to change the game for the past few years. Not so much the "ooh real money" aspect - but changing all items to be produced by the players. NPC goods have been replaced with player made goods - Arum undoes all of that. We can be sure that Arum Purchased crap will only be available in this manner, meaning there is no chance that "clothing" will ever be produced by the players. Another scary aspect is "Arum Ammo". Just like T2 fits become almost required for elite PVP - Arum Ammo is going to become a critical part of pvp. And what will the effect on current markets be when Arum Ammo appears? Akita, you are the expert - you tell us.
Tane Enat	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:32:00 - [88] Originally by: Jean Misto And the problem is, P2W removes the sandbox, it's pay CCP, blow people up, no more industry/market/etc. QFT
Sergeant Spot Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:34:00 - [89] Current System: If you buy uber elite modules and ships in game, even if you use Isk from PLEX sales, at some point, a PLAYER had to grind out that Isk you are spending, and PLAYER had to hunt down and kill that officer for that drop. AUR system: Stuff appears out of thin air in exchange for RL cash, no PLAYER EFFORT involved ANYWHERE. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Faith Leon	Posted - 2011.06.25 22:36:00 - [90] As you've said, CCP was taken over by financial interests 2-3 years ago. So from a financial stand point why would they sell the same stuff you can buy with ISK in the NeX store? They won't, instead they will sell items available only via MT's, and to make sure people buy them those items will be superior than the normal game produced items. I believe that is problematic. I believe that is what has people in an uproar as it will upset the current crafting scheme in Eve. As I have said before, people need to chill a bit and think logically (even if you risk having Akita tear apart your logic). They haven't even started really breaking the game so this is still speculative. They do need to fix the CPU problems and I'd really like my ship spinning back, but otherwise I am reserving judgment on the future of CCP and Eve Online.



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LOOT PI-ATA !