EVE Search - Paying to Win - A Presentation from EA

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Paying to Win - A Presentation from EA

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:04:00 - [1] Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 27/06/2011 15:14:03 A description of what works in "f2p". An excellent presentation by EA lead f2p developer. At about the 30 min. mark, to 35 mins. is a description of how CCP probably sees us..... bad news guys... Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online. No Local. No Lag. No Blues. No Blobs.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:22:00 - [2] /bump I don't want this to disappear. We are screwed, the game we love is screwed, and CCP is innoculated against further protest... I'm sure they had this information before they went full re tar d on us... Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online. No Local. No Lag. No Blues. No Blobs.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:25:00 - [3] watching now ... it is clear the nerds lost control of the game market, idiots willing to spend money for stupid **** have won. I don't want free to play, I want one rate for my game, and no more purchasable advantage. Eve Dark Ages - a new free expansion brought to you by CCP. As the old knowledge leaves, it will all happen again. Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84nrp08MWo&list=PLF614A7A6461E61E1
Zondrail Formic Hive	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:26:00 - [4] At work, so I can't watch the presentation, but I think it's clear that one of their biggest blunders is that they seem to be thinking they are justified in their model because everyone else is doing it successfully, but they are completely ignoring the fact that they are not a F2P model. That changes everything. Pay to play games have much different models for their micro-transactions... they are limited to vanity items and some convenience services (account services, etc.).
Cage Shadownsun Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:27:00 - [5] It is, once again, a presentation by EA. Electronic Arts. Now, I may just need new glasses, but looking at that name up there, I see two C's... but I don't see a P.
Kerrisone	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel watching now ... it is clear the nerds lost control of the game market, idiots willing to spend money for stupid ** have won. I don't want free to play, I want one rate for my game, and no more purchasable advantage. We seem to be in the minority. It's fine they still make single/multi player games that are much better quality than most MMO's. Originally by:** Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:28:00 - [7] There's a lot to be learned from ArenaNet, who have already demonstrated you don't even need subscriptions to be successful (see Guild Wars). Buy the box, play for free, have optional cosmetic items available for purchase. Guild Wars 2, coming soon, same business model. Buy it, play it. No subscription fees. Cosmetic micro-transactions only. FREE Helicity and Niang!
Silas Cooper	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:29:00 - [8] A shooter set up from the start as f2p is something entirely different from a player driven sandbox mmo where actions have consequences. Two entirely different products, lets hope CCP and its investors realise this. -- You can't cure stupid.
Uther Istavel	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:29:00 - [9] PLayed battlefield heroes? Ea are not the people listen to about F2P, you can play bfh for free, but good luck competing with the people who buy all the weapons and upgrades :/ F2P as long as you can afford it. _______________________________________________ Profit isnt a reason, its an excuse.
dgastuffz Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:30:00 - [10] there is no reason to post in forums anymore ccp wont watch it anyways
Diomedes Calypso Aetolian Armada	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes /bump I don't want this to disappear. We are screwed, the game we love is screwed, and CCP is innoculated against further protest... I'm sure they had this information before they went full re tar d on us... I watched the whole thing and yes it is depressing that because they've found one model successful for them in a free to play world that suddenly no company wants to exist on the flat fee method of paying for entertainment. The depressing part isn't only that companies will shift that way, but that this will shape player expecations of what is "normal" ... less likely that critical masses of players will migrate to the few companies that don't go to that sort of model
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Silas Cooper A shooter set up from the start as f2p is something entirely different from a player driven sandbox mmo where actions have consequences. Two entirely different products, lets hope CCP and its investors realise this. You have no idea how much I hope your right.... but I seriously don't believe it. Originally by: 'A Friend Wrote' Yeah, after having now watched that whole thing I'm convinced that Eve as we know it today is completely ***ed. It will probably continue. It may continue to be a fun game but it will be a different game. There is no way CCP is going to forgo this revenue stream. The game will either crash and CCP will be out of business or it will continue on with a playerbase willing to play in an environment as described in this video. If you care at all about understanding the business decision behind this bruhaha then you need to watch that presentation. Whether you plan to keep playing, quit, don't care whatever. If you have curiosity about the "Why?" just watch it. Wormholes: The NEW* end game of Eve - Online. No Local. No Lag. No Blues. No Blobs.
Not-Apsalar	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:34:00 - [13] World of Tanks is f2p but has a premium subscription(that vastly improves the game by increasing exp and such). It also sells tanks for cash. They aren't the best tanks, but they're functional and they get you into something that would take days/weeks to accomplish otherwise. The funny thing is that many of the people I know in EVE play both games, but the ones that are upset with CCP over this issue have no problem with WoT doing the same thing(pay to win).
Holy One Quiet.Storm Frater Adhuc Excessum	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:35:00 - [14] Edited by: Holy One on 27/06/2011 15:36:54 Originally by: Apollo Gabriel watching now ... it is clear the nerds lost control of the game market, idiots willing to spend money for stupid ** have won. I don't want free to play, I want one rate for my game, and no more purchasable advantage. P much in this regard. Yeah. I think the best analogy I can think of is breakfast cereal. Breakfast cereal has practically no inherent nutritional value after processing. It is essentially dehydrated, pressed, cut and shaped cardboard. They then spray it with vitamins and coat it in sugar and sell it as convenience food. Kids shovel it down by the metric tonne every year. They make 300% profit on it. Nobody even remembers what the ** people ate before cereal now. Nobody cares. I think its just an inevitible 'remains of the day' scenario whereby intellectual and largely socialist leaning geeks created stuff primarily for satisfaction and social purposes and secondarily as businesses (and usually at first only with the intention of facilitating more awesome) but, sadly, eventually, have to grow up. Now the world has changed sadly. Making money is steak sauce. Nobody knows why or what people did before capitalism took over every waking moment of everyone's life. Or even why we need more and more when we already have 'enough'. Sociopathy seems to be the new measure of 'added value' in life. The EA presentation there pretty much is a shining example of a business plan where the actual 'game' is nothing more than 'value added product'. Thankfully, EvE has never been like that. If it started out today it might have become that but it didn't and the people running it and the people who made it so amazing appreciate that. I think. Hilmar is a creative geek. A damn good businessmen too it seems, but I don't think he's at all like the MBA sociopaths who see nothing but $$ signs. Maybe I am wrong. But I don't think so. *shrug The culture of CCP the 'atmosphere' of EvE as harsh and not idiot friendly. The fact that for most of it's life-cycle it has been steadily growing in complexity not becoming steadily lower brow and more mainstream etc. All indicate to me that EvE is a 'vision' still to those who matter. Oddly enough the fact Iceland is a small insulated culture and that CCP is not American or American run plays a big part there. BBQ makes me hungry for more...
Evil Resident Lunar Tech	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:37:00 - [15] LOTRO, Champions online etc... have all gone F2P for one reason, they didn't have enough monthly subs to keep the game going. They HAD to change to a F2P model so they could keep their games running. EVE on the other hand can afford to fund 2 other blockbusters of the back of it's current subscriber base.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:39:00 - [16] "Forum posters spend 10x as much as non forum posters." G ****ing G. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Taja Jolina	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:39:00 - [17] Lets have a look at it .... at all if pay 2 win will approach eve - no problem to leave. Have left a long time ago before - will left again but than - no goodbye
Siri Buelle	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:40:00 - [18] BF heroes is a game for kids, Eve has a much more mature community, i doubt we 'll follow the same path as those noobs.
Takseen	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:48:00 - [19] The thing is that the Battlefield Heroes situation and the team's response was perfectly reasonable. It was a F2P game where less than 2% of their customers were spending any money at all, and their average spend was $20 a month. As they put it, they were giving away too much for free. With Eve Online the Average Revenue Per User is atleast $15 a month, since anyone who plays for "free" with PLEX is being subsided by another subscriber paying double. Therefore CCP have a much flimsier argument for adding microtransactions.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:52:00 - [20] I am a supporter of free to play games, which honestly I never play, nor have tried, because I am not interested in that model, but I think if people want it, then it should exist. What I can't stand is a freaky hybrid subscription + cash store game Eve Dark Ages - a new free expansion brought to you by CCP. As the old knowledge leaves, it will all happen again. Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84nrp08MWo&list=PLF614A7A6461E61E1
Ejit Amarr STD contractors	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Siri Buelle BF heroes is a game for kids, Eve has a much more mature community, i doubt we 'll follow the same path as those noobs. Was gonna say exactly that. That presentation whilst informative. Doesn't mention the average age group. BF Heroes I'd imagine is mainly played by kids and teenagers who like to spend their pocket money on weapons, boosts, virtual items etc. EVE is vastly different and boasts a much older and dare I say educated player base.
Pavel Bidermann	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:55:00 - [22] Again, it's game mechanics. None of the other games mentioned have a player driven economy. Some have crafting, but you don't have to use that. In EVE, everything with few exceptions is built, marketed and consumed by the players. When items appear out of thin air, it removes almost every aspect of game play. With no need to manufacture, there is no need to mine, refine, explore, mission run, earn standings, transport, take or defend space, moon mine or fight any size war. It would definately end Alliance wars. It would contribute to some initial stupid ship losses but that would become boring very quickly. If you think there's crying now, imagine the tears of a new player who logs in, pays a ton of money for skills, mods and a supercap just to lose it an hour later. Who would sign up for a game with the PR that new player will be giving on the internet? Most of these "what's the problem" posts should be retitled to "I don't know how this game works". Don't get me wrong. The MT store is fine for vanity items. I love useless crap. I was sure the miniature slaver hound from one of the missions was going to be in it. I think there should be a dumpster that you can set on fire in the store too. There are some issues with the store though. The items you buy nobody will see for a long, long time. The game can't run the CQ. It won't be able to run the common areas for years per the hardware manufacturers. It's a lot of fuss for a useless addition. The games from the EA video that people were posting are in no way a good exaple. They are just-passing-through quick play games that frankly suck. Also, those games and others have more than just the store to aquire those items. As with LOTRO and others, you can find or make the items in the store. You have XP boosts and such but it doesn't break the game for one important reason. You're playing against the software. In EVE you play against and with each other. That is the difference that makes all these other games poor examples in this arguement. There's PVP in those games, but the PVP doesn't control the game. In EVE they all work together.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.06.27 15:59:00 - [23] This sounds bad :( For real, think about it - what if eve turns bad, what if it becomes unplayable? What if we are never able to play Eve again? NO MORE EVE? Oh mah gawd, CCP is fo real so dmb!!
Takseen	Posted - 2011.06.27 16:02:00 - [24] Just to summarise the important bit. Battlefield Heroes, a F2P FPS was losing money. They decided to reduce in-game earnable rewards and add more P2W items(better guns) in their cash shop. This had the following effects -generated loads of negative press and forum anger -doubled their average revenue practically overnight -average daily users didn't change at all -the average spending per person didn't change at all -three times as many people started to spend And in particular about forums -Only 20% of their users actually look at the forums -Only 2% of users post -The forum posters spent ten times as much money as the average user spends So complaints represented a tiny minority. Presumably Hilmar thinks the Eve forum posters will end up doing the same thing here.
Pavel Bidermann	Posted - 2011.06.27 16:03:00 - [25] I forgot to say that many of the unsubs would gladly resign up if the game is saved. Some won't come back having been through this too many times with CCP. For the newer players, welcome to EVE. Home of the digital backstab, metagame is gameplay and the politics bleeds out into RL. Fix the game and they will come back because the players have few tools in such a struggle. The subscription is the most powerful weapon and not used lightly. Later, if everything works out and they come back you will probably be saying "told you so". Just realize that when you say that it just comes out as "I have no idea what's going on". These people are fighting hard to keep a decent and unique game as just that. CCP isn't flying a bunch of people to Iceland because everything is fine.
Frogzuk Gallente RETRIBUTIONS. Legion of The Damned.	Posted - 2011.06.27 16:16:00 - [26] Having watched that presentation, a couple of pointers 1 - that game and eve the main difference is that is free to play, no subs, just pay for the items you need an average of 20 dollars a month, EVE we pay subs or plex .. average about 15 euros a month. Anyone want to spend another 15 euro for flashy stuff .. no thanks ... make eve free to play then .... 2 - those graphs don't add up, especially the forum pie chart thingy. 2% of their player base use their forums, i would guess that a larger % of eve player base use these forums, because in all sense and purpose these forums are really important aspect of the game <points at the alliance forum section> 3 - the battles in those games do not have the same significant as the ones in this game. Fine a extra 2 % on a gun to shoot your opponent in a 10 minute battle (however long they are, i don't know haven't played)does not have the same effect on an outcome as it does if you were to give that % of advantage on guns or booster or implants in eve. The minute we have and extra 2% on guns or extra gun slots in this game it is dead ... end of 4 - ANYONE and i mean anyone foolish enough to pay for additional content is a mug, who wants to be a pea** ... lol hell .. this is internet space ships not hey look i have tinted glass windows, or sunglasses .. i don't care ... all i care about is shooting ships ...and i certainly not paying 15 euros for the pleasure of flying ships for fun knowing that some moron has spent 15 euro stubs and another 15 euros fitting out leet stuff on his ship .. space will be alot less crowdy, fleets will be a lot less smaller .. oh wai i see what you have done here ccp .. you have resolved the blob and lag in one fell swoop ... just to note, i cancelled both my subs today, 6 yrs of playing. I am not going spend another penny until we have a cast iron 'MT is for peaa** items only and not for the 'advantage i.e. boosters, weapons, ships ...' sad day indeed .. sad day
Akira Samposeppa Gallente Arthashastra	Posted - 2011.06.27 16:21:00 - [27] This cant be compared to eve in any way possible. In fps p2w items give you an advantage but you can still kill an enemy with common knife or something if you are good. But in eve, you dont stand a chance in a rifter against a pimped up dramiel. Lets say that you and your adversary meet one on one in pretty much equal ships in eve, he has a power ammo/item and you dont, he has 10% more dps and tank. You are dead, no question about it, no matter how good your rl skill is, because his ship is 20% better than yours and thats it. So imho in eve p2w would really be pay to win, as in other party has no chance what so ever, and in fps someone who does not pay to win has some chance if he has a good rl player skill.
Chip Packer	Posted - 2011.06.27 16:41:00 - [28] Edited by: Chip Packer on 27/06/2011 16:42:26 Thanks for bringing this to our attention Asuri. It was a very good presentation. The wave of the future. And I think some of us are in denial here. One of the big takeaways here is how unrepresentative forum posters are of the player base. Also, I have to say that much of this controversy is overblown. The world and the game is not coming to an end right now and won't over this. Perhaps an in game payment system might make the game more fun for more of us, purists excluded. Eve is not a very accessible game for everybody. Improving accessibility by speeding up the time it takes to train, for example, through a payment model might just prove very popular and make the game more fun for more people and encourage more game development. Cheers
Holy One Quiet.Storm Frater Adhuc Excessum	Posted - 2011.06.27 16:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Akira Samposeppa This cant be compared to eve in any way possible. Not really but its invaluable in highlighting how business work. In particular: 1. The fact that forums ie transcribed interaction represents a small minority of highly vocal players and not usually the majority of paying customers. 2. The absolute critical emphasis placed on metrics and what metrics tell you about your business. Metrics as a straight forward indicator of where to invest and where to cut. 3. The fact that in business promises mean nothing when jobs are on the line. A business does not need to be in danger of failing for this to be the case. If you think about it objectively these three minor superficial observations apply to absolutely all businesses of every kind. And also a lot of governments. BBQ makes me hungry for more...
Keitoshi Yamada Caldari Sephray Industries Serenitas Solutus	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:01:00 - [30] Too bad jobs aren't on the line, so ridiculous business decisions aren't going to happen. AURUM will never be a buy-to-win option, it will always remain Vanity-Only.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.