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Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 27/06/2011 17:16:07 Originally by: CCP Zinfandel For those who missed it before, let's go back over this in better detail. The detail is interesting for many. Team Stonehenge is making the store (Noble Exchange) and is making it in stages. It's fairly simple and straightforward at present but will be getting more sophisticated over time. Right now it can only sell one kind of thing at a time (no bundles) and can only accept one payment at a time (Aurum.) It can't do trade-in's. It can't do BPCs. It can't sell anything that requires a user interface to use. It can't highlight an item on sale (they will look like the non sale items.) It can't sort/filter and only show you one kind of item. But it will get better. Other folks are making cool ship art. Other folks are making clothing, etc. One of the cool ships was the Ishukone Watch Scorpion battleship which we brought to the CSM. They got to see a little better view of it than just a screen shot posted in a video broadcast and they thought it looked pretty cool. One of them will likely chime in about it or you'll see it in their meeting minutes which I know they are working on. So I presented our dilemma to them. EVE players need to be in control of the EVE economy as much as possible. That's not just a marketing claim, that's what we really believe. And if we sell a battleship in a store, that transgresses this important principle. "Shall I hold this until the store properly supports BPCs or a Scorpion trade-in? Or shall I start selling it now for 3-4 months and then change how we sell it later?" The CSM had one big question: -Is there any difference between the Ishukone Watch Scorpions sold whole and the ones sold in trade in? (The answer is no.) They said yes, you want players in control. You want players buying Scorpions from industrialist players. Absolutely. But in this case this is not likely to hurt the EVE economy because initially people will only buy these ships as a collectible and for fun. This will not affect their purchase of Scorpions for actual fleet warfare. They will still buy as many Scorps - this would just be on extra out of their bling money. So they recommended we go ahead and begin our learning curve and get the fun ship into circulation. Now, behind the scenes, we will be monitoring to make sure that Scorpion sales don't crash and that the economy does not suffer. If it does, we can turn off the availability of the ship in minutes. We'll just point out that the Ishukone Watch only made a limited number of ships to sell to capsuleers and that supply has now run out. If we need to go even slower, we can and will. Source: CCP Zinfandel This is CCP's plan, for anyone that might have missed it in all the mob uproar and chest beating. NEX will be nothing more than a fancy Loyalty Points store, and when it comes to actual ships and equipment, you will eventually have to exchange your player produced goods in order to acquire fancy looking goods with the same stats. The initial uproar was the fact that CCP had planned on testing a release of the Ishukone Watch model without the code in place to accept an exchange for a regular model, i.e ships would materialize out of thin air into the game economy and potentially hurt the bottom line of a player driven game. So case in point, CCP has already answered our question. Did you know this statement existed before you decided whether or not you felt CCP was up to no good?
Boaz Hedion Merkava	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:14:00 - [2] Oohh so that's why the CSM has been summoned to warpdrive to Iceland!
Lucilla Giulia	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:16:00 - [3] damn CCP Zinfandel where have u gone?
Sakura Ren Fenikkusu	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:16:00 - [4] LOL...I've linked that post so many times...the common response "Fearless, says otherwise." Ugh, anyway, CCP Zinfandel's post ensures that the mineral market/economy will not be disturbed. A previous post, which I'm having trouble finding in the mess that the forums are in, stated that they wouldn't put any items into the NeXus that would affect game play or game mechanics. I think we are safe. CCP hasn't lost my faith/trust. To all those that jumped ship, good riddance.
KING TERROR Royal Dutch Secret Service	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:17:00 - [5] politics is also fun guys, hottub under aurora boralis included
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:19:00 - [6] Just so you know, the Question was asked in a thread just a few below this, and a dev responded by saying they won't answer until the Meeting. So, um, WTF are you talking about? - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Kez Aumer	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:20:00 - [7] Of course, one small problem with that post is that the CSM don't have quite the same recollection of what was decided. Trebor insist the special scorpion was dropped entirely, on the grounds that it would affect the industrialists.
Lucilla Giulia	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:21:00 - [8] give us CCP Zinfandel!! (the wine he's named after is good) we need more Zinfandel! isn't he the dude responsible for the MT stuff?
Death Severus	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:21:00 - [9] i'm so confused....... why would you put up a blog where they say they are going to put magic scorpions on the market that will appear out of thin air to prove your point??? and where the **** does it say in the blog that they will not have non-vanity items??? AM i missing something?
Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu LOL...I've linked that post so many times...the common response "Fearless, says otherwise." Ugh, anyway, CCP Zinfandel's post ensures that the mineral market/economy will not be disturbed. A previous post, which I'm having trouble finding in the mess that the forums are in, stated that they wouldn't put any items into the NeXus that would affect game play or game mechanics. I think we are safe. CCP hasn't lost my faith/trust. To all those that jumped ship, good riddance. We are probably safe for at least 12-24 months before CCP determines whether or not these changes have been enough to bring them in more revenue, but I am under a very firm impression that trying to singlehandedly take over the player driven economy of the entire game is the furthest thing from their mind at this point. Whether or not that very idea was a perfunctory topic of discussion in Fearless or not is anecdotal in my opinion. My boss and I argue pros and cons of this or that feature for our product all the time, from the profane to the whimsical, that does not mean the product we release has any elements of either one, and more often than not, it most definitely remains true to the core principles of our original design.
Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:26:00 - [11] Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 27/06/2011 17:27:03 Originally by: Crumplecorn Just so you know, the Question was asked in a thread just a few below this, and a dev responded by saying they won't answer until the Meeting. So, um, WTF are you talking about? Because Zinfandel already said what CCP is planning on doing, so why they have not simply reiterated his points to the community is the real mystery. Originally by: Kez Aumer Of course, one small problem with that post is that the CSM don't have quite the same recollection of what was decided. Trebor insist the special scorpion was dropped entirely, on the grounds that it would affect the industrialists. Ah, maybe this is why then ^ Looks like Zinfandel was pretty serious when he said they would drop the idea in a heartbeat if it looked like it would hurt the economy.
Jo Blot	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:30:00 - [12] The mass rioting cannot be explained by a single (or even a few) issue(s). So any attempt to "answer" it in such terms is pointless. CCP already tried that at the weekend and just made things worse. Weren't you watching?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 27/06/2011 17:34:39 Originally by: Maduin Ardens Because Zinfandel already said what CCP is planning on doing, so why they have not simply reiterated his points to the community is the real mystery. Zinfadel was talking about the Scorps, which really have nothing to do with anything at this point. Nobody has re-iterated his points or said anything else yet, because they haven't answered the question. Originally by: Jo Blot The mass rioting cannot be explained by a single (or even a few) issue(s). So any attempt to "answer" it in such terms is pointless. CCP already tried that at the weekend and just made things worse. Weren't you watching? You think turning around and saying "there will never be P2W" (or golden ammo or whatever you want to call it) would do no good? Most of the rioting basically boils down to this. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Death Severus i'm so confused....... why would you put up a blog where they say they are going to put magic scorpions on the market that will appear out of thin air to prove your point??? and where the ** does it say in the blog that they will not have non-vanity items??? AM i missing something? Because it explains that CCP has thought about this all a lot more then YOU have. They've calculated the effects of such a ship on the market and cleared it with CSM. Further, it is quite clear that they intend to have the process tied into the player industry (trade in program) but they dont have the code established quite yet. They wanted to sell these vanity scorpions for a few months while they worked on the underlying code. I personally think they should have gone ahead with it. LOok at the prices in NeX store. 60 dollars for a monocle? how much do you think it's gonna cost to paint your ship? probably at least that. And how many people are going to fly 60 dollar ships into 0.0 space to lose? No-**ing-body. This is why it wouldnt hurt the ingame economy.
Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Maduin Ardens Because Zinfandel already said what CCP is planning on doing, so why they have not simply reiterated his points to the community is the real mystery. Zinfadel was talking about the Scorps, which really have nothing to do with anything at this point. Nobody has re-iterated his points or said anything else yet, because they haven't answered the question. If it is true that the Ishukone Watch Scorpion was scrapped then please discuss the following: 1. CCP plans releasing Ishukone Watch Scorpion without an item exchange in place. 2. CCP decides to scrap the Scorpion because it would affect the game economy. 3. Everyone still paranoid that CCP is going to introduce economy breaking non-vanity items. That is answer enough for me, at least for the timebeing.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:43:00 - [16] Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 27/06/2011 17:44:03
Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 27/06/2011 17:46:24 Originally by: Terminal Insanity ... You are preaching to the choir, Edit: Oops, nevermind then
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Maduin Ardens That is answer enough for me, at least for the timebeing. You appear to be missing critical elements of this issue, and lacking a familiarity with the reliability of CCP's past commitments. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Maduin Ardens That is answer enough for me, at least for the timebeing. You appear to be missing critical elements of this issue, and lacking a familiarity with the reliability of CCP's past commitments. Until the Ishukone Watch Scorpion were to hit the NEX without an item exchange in place, we will just have to wait and see, my friend. I do understand where you are coming from however, which is why I will be watching patiently for the day a non-vanity item hits the NEX, to see if CCP still lets the cat out of the bag within the next 12-24 months contrary to their present stance of preventing such a thing (re: Ishukone Watch Scorpion). If and when they do break with this principle, I and a good portion of my friends will have to make some tough decisions about our subscriptions, etc. But until then I plan on just enjoying the game, that's what we are all here for at the end of the day,
Henry Haphorn Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:56:00 - [20] He, I completely forgot about that one blog. Thanks for reminding me, Maduin Ardens. You know, it makes me wonder if anyone bothers to read development blogs anymore. I mean throughout the past year CCP has been mentioning this to us and explaining the details to us for a long time. We were already told that the CQ is just the first step to ensure a smooth transition into the full-blown Incarna while the Noble Exchange market will be adjusted accordingly based on the player feedback. Yet, when the next expansion hits the main server, people start acting like they never even read the blogs and start playing chicken little. I can compare this whole paranoia to driving. Driver A is driving ahead of Driver B. Driver A passed a warning sign indicating that a "stop" sign is up ahead without bothering to look at it. Driver B sees the sign and gets ready to stop. Driver A sees the "stop" sign and frantically tries to respond but end up running it by accident and gets pulled over by Concord. Driver A starts *****ing and moaning at the Concord Officer as to why he wasn't given information about the "stop" sign. In the meantime, Driver B is waiting at the "stop" sign laughing his ass off at Driver A for acting so ignorant.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.27 17:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Henry Haphorn He, I completely forgot about that one blog. Thanks for reminding me, Maduin Ardens. You know, it makes me wonder if anyone bothers to read development blogs anymore. I mean throughout the past year CCP has been mentioning this to us and explaining the details to us for a long time. We were already told that the CQ is just the first step to ensure a smooth transition into the full-blown Incarna while the Noble Exchange market will be adjusted accordingly based on the player feedback. Yet, when the next expansion hits the main server, people start acting like they never even read the blogs and start playing chicken little. I can compare this whole paranoia to driving. Driver A is driving ahead of Driver B. Driver A passed a warning sign indicating that a "stop" sign is up ahead without bothering to look at it. Driver B sees the sign and gets ready to stop. Driver A sees the "stop" sign and frantically tries to respond but end up running it by accident and gets pulled over by Concord. Driver A starts *****ing and moaning at the Concord Officer as to why he wasn't given information about the "stop" sign. In the meantime, Driver B is waiting at the "stop" sign laughing his ass off at Driver A for acting so ignorant. $1000 pants!
Less Than Jake	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu LOL...I've linked that post so many times...the common response "Fearless, says otherwise." Ugh, anyway, CCP Zinfandel's post ensures that the mineral market/economy will not be disturbed. A previous post, which I'm having trouble finding in the mess that the forums are in, stated that they wouldn't put any items into the NeXus that would affect game play or game mechanics. I think we are safe. CCP hasn't lost my faith/trust. To all those that jumped ship, good riddance. They also said, once before, there would never be microtransactions in eve, look what we have now via aurum . And before it's even started, plex was a way for ccp to fight rmt isk sellers, give players control of it on the market, doesn't create anything from nothing, and shows our support of ccp by giving them a profit on the product.
Henry Haphorn Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:07:00 - [23] Bump
Raid'En	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Raid''En on 27/06/2011 18:12:57 Originally by: Maduin Ardens NEX will be nothing more than a fancy Loyalty Points store, and when it comes to actual ships and equipment, you will eventually have to exchange your player produced goods in order to acquire fancy looking goods with the same stats. [...] So case in point, CCP has already answered our question. Did you know this statement existed before you decided whether or not you felt CCP was up to no good? yes i knew. this change nothing : i consider the fact that CCP don't want to answer the yellow question means they want to add something not exatly vanity, but putting it inside gameplay. putting on advantage, even when it enter the production level, is still a risk for the gameplay, because it will hurt the same items of the chain, and what it remplace. there's also the big bonus of the limited logistic issue : aurum store is available anywhere, you dont need to go to xx station to buy the thing from aurum. it's not exactly the same thing, it less worrying, but it's still an issue. it can be done well, but we're talking ccp here, and you know how ccp is at balancing things :/
Ezra Vouland Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:09:00 - [25] People rather be irrational and raging neckbeards.
Maduin Ardens Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Henry Haphorn He, I completely forgot about that one blog. Thanks for reminding me, Maduin Ardens. You know, it makes me wonder if anyone bothers to read development blogs anymore. I mean throughout the past year CCP has been mentioning this to us and explaining the details to us for a long time. We were already told that the CQ is just the first step to ensure a smooth transition into the full-blown Incarna while the Noble Exchange market will be adjusted accordingly based on the player feedback. Yet, when the next expansion hits the main server, people start acting like they never even read the blogs and start playing chicken little. I can compare this whole paranoia to driving. Driver A is driving ahead of Driver B. Driver A passed a warning sign indicating that a "stop" sign is up ahead without bothering to look at it. Driver B sees the sign and gets ready to stop. Driver A sees the "stop" sign and frantically tries to respond but end up running it by accident and gets pulled over by Concord. Driver A starts *****ing and moaning at the Concord Officer as to why he wasn't given information about the "stop" sign. In the meantime, Driver B is waiting at the "stop" sign laughing his ass off at Driver A for acting so ignorant. I'll be honest, I had nearly forgotten about it myself, ...but it kept bugging me, I knew there was some reason I was not all that concerned about MT, but after having a relatively rough week at work I was left a little frazzled around the edges so to speak, so it was not until this morning that it dawned on me what I was trying to remember. It is enough for me that they may or may not have yanked the Scorpion for the same reasons they would not or at least... have not, made real plans to include non-vanity items in the NEX. To be perfectly honest, I was much more upset about the Dominion debacle than this MT stuff. Zinfandel is their marketing guy, and for now it appears, what he says goes, and he says no to economy breaking items, and non-vanity items are under the umbrella of economy breaking items, so... causality.
Cpt Stratos	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Ezra Vouland People rather be irrational and raging neckbeards. Heh, I have to agree. Even though I did post that I cancelled my account I am not going to nerd rage all over the internet and in game. I never take games that seriously to get all mad and rage over a piece of entertainment, but thats just me. I just wanted to wait and see quietly what CCP has planned, now that I have read this I will resub on the 29th of this month since that is when my time ends. This did answer my question and it does seem that CCP is keeping a good eye on the in game economy and making sure that nothing they do will effect it to the point where it will break it. My only complaint with CCP is that they should have done a better job with communicating with the community when this issue came. I think they did learn from this mistake and hopefully they will make some changes. I do love EVE Online, and have been enjoying my time in it. Not really sure why, but something about this game draws me in. Maybe I am just tired of fantasy MMOs and I am looking for something different. That or maybe it is what CCP has planned with Dust 514 and EVE Online that is drawing me into this universe.
Ezra Vouland Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:31:00 - [28] With CCP communicating I am curious what people would expect. They have to respond as a company they cant just post in the forums. I think peoples expectations of some sort of response is a bit unrealistic while they ar F5ing the forums.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:34:00 - [29] CSM PR STUNT CCP will meet with CSM and CCP will claim that this was a very beneficial meeting. CCP will talk about how better informed they are about the players position thanks to csm and how that information that they got from this csm meeting lead them to change "x" about their plans. Will they acknowledge this forum outrage had anything to do with it? CCP will just say that was only part of it but meeting with CSM was also important - somehow. The fact that they will meet with CSM and not hear a single thing from csm that they have not already heard in these forums will not be publicized at all. OK CSM must be made into a white knight so it doesn't appear to be some publicity tool. This is a great opportunity to show how ccp listens to players via the csm. The only thing is they canÆt claim what a success the CSM meeting was until they actually have the meeting. So we need to wait until after this meeting. Then we will hear what they decided to do in light of the forum outrage.
Android Mindslave Gallente Mindworks	Posted - 2011.06.27 18:39:00 - [30] 1) CCP Zinfandel is marketing. People make jokes about marketing being psychopathic lying scum because a lot of them are psychopathic lying scum. 2) CCP Zinfandel proposed the scorpion for $ to the CSM and they said NO. CCP Zinfandel then waited until after the meeting to get some CSM members liquored up in a social setting and talk about the scorpion for $ until he gets one to say something along the lines of selling a scorpion for $ for a limited time wouldn't completely destroy the EVE economy so if you HAD to do it, that is how you'd have to do it. CCP Zinfandel then turns around and tells the user base that he merely presented the option to the CSM and that he was told the scorpion was so amazing that he should offer it for a limited time. The dude is a lying psychopath. He is a lying psychopath who believes that you are too stupid or trusting to figure him out or call him on it, which in his eyes makes you weak and easy to exploit. Trusting a lying psychopath is pants on the head stupid, because nothing that comes out of their mouth has any value whatsoever and their actions will always be 100% about their own personal gain without a single consideration with regard to anything else. Do not put any trust in a lying psychopath. Treat them like you would a serial killer (serial killers often being a psychopath who happens to also be a sadist). In case you missed it: *CCP ZINFANDEL IS A LYING PSYCHOPATH. DO NOT TRUST HIM.* The whole reason this thing has blown up into a firestorm is that it has become rather obvious that we are dealing with psychopaths calling the shots inside CCP, and you can't have a social contract with psychopaths. In reality, they have most likely killed EVE because of it. EVE is a game where you invest a lot of time and planning to play it. Knowing that you have a bunch of psychopaths constantly scheming to find a way to sell the game out, the investment of that time becomes very risky and it becomes very obvious that the time would be better spent elsewhere. EVE is dead.

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