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Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 00:56:00 - [1] Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this? its not a matter of if you should or shouldnt like it. Its just a fact of the real world. reguardless of what service or product you purchace, your money is going to several unrelated causes/people/products. If you dont like this, you should probably ... hrm... find a deserted island and make your own rules. Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry. Are you admitting you are mentally incapable of thinking for yourself here? You're telling me if CCP puts a few shiny objects in a store, its going to force you to buy them? lol. Dont like it dont ****ing buy it. You can still get any of it with ingame isk.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 01:16:00 - [2] Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink. Dolphins can swim. But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 01:27:00 - [3] Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse. Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why; 1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere' 2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan. 3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex) 4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur) You see, now you have no legs to stand on.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 01:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon #2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it. That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol. And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda. You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao. This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 01:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar About #2. Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one. Refer to #1 as to how the ship doesnt spawn out of thin air. Someone mined, refined, manufactured, and sold that machariel initially. its just going from one person's account to the next.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 02:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Venekar The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc. Haha true enough, fox news imo stands out like a sore thumb to me, but i have yet to see a fair and balanced news network anywhere other then Comedy Central's Jon Stewart.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 02:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:43:00 Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:41:47 Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:37:17 Originally by: Vherkin A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed. But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin. non-vanity items do not give creditcard holders the advantage, as all nex items are available for isk as well. The only thing that comes out of 'thin air' is the actual bonus given to the ship. That is not game-breaking in any way. Does it introduce a bonus 'out of thin air'? Not really. That bonus was purchaced with isk. How is that any different then buying a CNR instead of a regular raven? Originally by: Vherkin When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too. In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you. your examples do not apply here. Take the chess club example. Player1 purchaces his second queen with money. But Player2 can still get a second queen buy spending some 'ingame currency'. (i know theres no ingame currency in chess... which is why your example fails) Eve is already pay2win Money > GTC > character+titan Money > 5 monitors 150$ each > 10 accounts 16$ each > multibox software something like 50$ a year > 10 Hulks mining and with the same amount of work as running 1 client.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 02:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Spyres We're already paying a subscription FFS! That should be reason enough. nobody is forcing you to pay one cent more. All of this is available with ingame isk. The fact it can be purchaced with IRL money is nothing new as you can already do that via GTC's. Grow up.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 02:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did. One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's. My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Convex Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 03:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Vherkin Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00 Originally by: Terminal Insanity Originally by: Container Storage That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did. One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's. My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation. No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work. There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes. Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not. It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.

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