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Day 2 Peacetalks - The Reckoning

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Doctor Garamond Trebuchet Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Doctor Garamond Trebuchet on 01/07/2011 10:27:22 Twitter.com #CSM6 Very frank and serious discussion going on. #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM 24 minutes ago. - And we are underway. #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM - 76 minutes ago. - "This is Monacleysmic Incarnage!" Ö - Nath Blazek CAS 101 Where is my Lab Coat? Monacle???
TalonClark	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:23:00 - [2] good, thats all i want. If they tell me whats going on, i can make an informed decision. Thats all i ask. I won't be happy if they go all out with PtW, but hey...everything has to end someday.
Koh Lin Baudoin	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Doctor Garamond Trebuchet Twitter.com #CSM6 Very frank and serious discussion going on. #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM 24 minutes ago. "Will that be in cash, or straight to your account?"
RAW23	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Koh Lin Baudoin Originally by: Doctor Garamond Trebuchet Twitter.com #CSM6 Very frank and serious discussion going on. #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM 24 minutes ago. "Will that be in cash, or straight to your account?"
Andraine Coded Arms Corp	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:28:00 - [5] Please, for the love of god CCP, do this regarding the CQ- I think what annoys people most is that it's not even an OPTION. I'm not talking about turning CQ off in the settings, that's already there... and we get a horrible picture of a door. What is reasonable and realistic, is to be able to dock in your ship and still be in your ship while in the station if you're just quickly making some adjustments....for example, you need to fit an extra hardener or drop off some loot, or why not, admire your sexy ship and spin it a few times! From a Practical and immersive point of view....as it is, doesn't work at the moment I've said it so many times, but, you should be able to exit your ship from the station view and enter the captains quarters. This, Just for the people that want to walk in the station, sit on the sofa and other pointless activities. Each to their own. Does that sound like something that should happen? I honestly don't think CCP are taking this particular issue seriously. It's getting buried under all the monocle and MT talk. yobo
Koh Lin Baudoin	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Andraine Please, for the love of god CCP, do this regarding the CQ- I think what annoys people most is that it's not even an OPTION. I'm not talking about turning CQ off in the settings, that's already there... and we get a horrible picture of a door. What is reasonable and realistic, is to be able to dock in your ship and still be in your ship while in the station if you're just quickly making some adjustments....for example, you need to fit an extra hardener or drop off some loot, or why not, admire your sexy ship and spin it a few times! From a Practical and immersive point of view....as it is, doesn't work at the moment I've said it so many times, but, you should be able to exit your ship from the station view and enter the captains quarters. This, Just for the people that want to walk in the station, sit on the sofa and other pointless activities. Each to their own. Does that sound like something that should happen? I honestly don't think CCP are taking this particular issue seriously. It's getting buried under all the monocle and MT talk. I think based on what was posted here and there by the CSM about day one welcome to the new status quo. For the first time usability, functionality and immersion are now secondary considerations to training users to microtransactions. It's laughable to even think that CCP would have built the NEX unless they planned to turn an extra buck from it. If it was pure vanity CQ would have been totally optional. If it hadn't of been for the terrible performance of CQ as flagged in the June 14 dev blog we would all be forced to the "Space Shopping Network". The fact that CCP coded a last minute "temporary" fix to it when they won't bend on anything else tells you that the CQ engine must be deeply, deeply flawed.
Reilly Duvolle	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:39:00 - [7] Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 01/07/2011 10:40:54 Trebor_CSMRobert Woodhead Breaking for coffee. I revise my opinion; full minutes are going to be needed. LOL - Yeah somehow I think the answer to the big yellow question isnt gonna be "relax guys, aint gonna happen"
Govinda Sertan	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:42:00 - [8] Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 01/07/2011 10:44:08 Srsly, can you add a little more nothing to all the nothing we get since two weeks ? And please, dont you dare speaking about what matters.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Koh Lin Baudoin "Will that be in cash, or straight to your account?" 10/10 _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Eclorc	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:45:00 - [10] Edited by: Eclorc on 01/07/2011 10:46:48 Originally by: Doctor Garamond Trebuchet Twitter.com #CSM6 because the depth of the discussion will be really illuminating, not because the results are bad #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM Breaking for coffee. I revise my opinion; full minutes are going to be needed. - @Trebor_CSM #csm6 #tweetfleet 1 min ago Very frank and serious discussion going on. #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM 24 minutes ago. - And we are underway. #csm6 #tweetfleet - @Trebor_CSM - 76 minutes ago. So.. The question arises about how long these "full minutes" will take to prepare before the humble players that don't have CSM's privileged position get to finally read these "really illuminating" words? If this proves to be yet another delaying tactic, I think another backlash will inevitably happen. And that will probably do some serious damage to any reputation still salvageable. Honesty now will be controllable. More prevarication will bring worse damage later imho.
Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Reilly Duvolle Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 01/07/2011 10:40:54 Trebor_CSMRobert Woodhead Breaking for coffee. I revise my opinion; full minutes are going to be needed. LOL - Yeah somehow I think the answer to the big yellow question isnt gonna be "relax guys, aint gonna happen" And even if CCP should have answered just that the first day all the whiners should have raged that CCP it's not trustworthy. Due mittani and trevor twits it seems what i already tought about the issue that CCP lack someone with a couple of decent braincells when it come to properly rely news to the community, due the latest news fiascos DEAR MONOCLE OVERLORDS JOIN TO FORCE CCP ADD LORGNETTE FOR THE OVERLADIES!!
Run Forward	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:50:00 - [12] @csmwhitetree White Tree #tweetfleet Super intense session. Sorting the issues. 9 hours ago via TweetDeck
Govinda Sertan	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:52:00 - [13] I dont know a thing about CCP's position about RMT, bugs fix, Incarna, games upgrades, etc. But I sure know a lot about how "intense" and "useful" this meeting was. I happy now.
Reilly Duvolle	Posted - 2011.07.01 10:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Sadayiel And even if CCP should have answered just that the first day all the whiners should have raged that CCP it's not trustworthy. I can only speak for myself here ofc. I dont have a beef with neither Incarna, performance issues, the lack of ship spinning or the MT store. For me it is and has always been about P2W. So yes, IF CCP had gone out and stated clearly and unambigiously that MT will be vanity only (for EVE), the war would be over, at least for me.
Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:01:00 - [15] Originally by: Reilly Duvolle Originally by: Sadayiel And even if CCP should have answered just that the first day all the whiners should have raged that CCP it's not trustworthy. I can only speak for myself here ofc. I dont have a beef with neither Incarna, performance issues, the lack of ship spinning or the MT store. For me it is and has always been about P2W. So yes, IF CCP had gone out and stated clearly and unambigiously that MT will be vanity only (for EVE), the war would be over, at least for me. The trouble is that CCP as company (on the point that need to keep working, and keep playing their employers without drastic measures) the best that can offer it's we will not use P2W unless there is no other way left to us. Wich in short means that while the eve playerbase keeps growing and seems to be able to hold CCP develops they will never resort to such things. And even that will cause ppl to rage. DEAR MONOCLE OVERLORDS JOIN TO FORCE CCP ADD LORGNETTE FOR THE OVERLADIES!!
Prodesh	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:02:00 - [16] I don't know what the dithering is all about. I think it is very obvious. If you cant answer the yellow lettered question with a yes or no then the answer has to be that which u don't want to say. Now what might that be? Good luck all. Gameover!
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:03:00 - [17] I wish Trebor would stop herpaderping and just get notes of the discussions out after them. Nobody cares about buzzwords like "illuminating".
Valei Khurelem	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:05:00 - [18] If CCP stick with what they know then EVE Online will keep on growing by itself because the players know then that they will not suddenly have their game taken away from them. What will kill the game is if CCP decide to go for short term greed rather than long term prosperity and that is a problem facing all the economies of the world today.
Koh Lin Baudoin	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Prodesh I don't know what the dithering is all about. I think it is very obvious. If you cant answer the yellow lettered question with a yes or no then the answer has to be that which u don't want to say. Now what might that be? Good luck all. Gameover! With respect I think we all know all the answer to this "yellow lettered question". This summit is all about how best to break the news. I expect there will be the promise of some future carrot, but you can be certain as soon as the ragers have un-subbed, accepted or been banned the gold ammo will flow. I'm not trying to scaremonger. If it wasn't true CCP would have already ruled it out without flying the CSM in from around the planet on damage control.
Ranita Drell	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Koh Lin Baudoin For the first time usability, functionality and immersion are now secondary considerations to training users to microtransactions. The CQ/hangar view issue may not appear to be a super serious one, but I think it is, especially if we do not get an unequivocal "no non-vanity MT in EVE, ever" statement out of the summit (which I do not expect). If CCP does not bend on the CQ/hangar view issue, that decision gives us appropriate context in which to view any lesser statement that's made about non-vanity MT, such as "we're pursuing convenience MT only" or "we have no plans to pursue any non-vanity MT at the moment, but we reserve the right to change our minds." We'll know that in the view of CCP, our status as paying subscribers does not entitle us to the best game the devs can produce with the resources at their disposal, and we'll know that if compromising the quality of the game will increase MT sales, CCP will compromise away.
P42ALPHA Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Koh Lin Baudoin Originally by: Prodesh I don't know what the dithering is all about. I think it is very obvious. If you cant answer the yellow lettered question with a yes or no then the answer has to be that which u don't want to say. Now what might that be? Good luck all. Gameover! With respect I think we all know all the answer to this "yellow lettered question". This summit is all about how best to break the news. I expect there will be the promise of some future carrot, but you can be certain as soon as the ragers have un-subbed, accepted or been banned the gold ammo will flow. I'm not trying to scaremonger. If it wasn't true CCP would have already ruled it out without flying the CSM in from around the planet on damage control. Have to agree, there is a reason for this summit. And it is not to tell us there has been a change of heart. Just a way for the information to come through more channels then one.
TalonClark	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:20:00 - [22] I think we all know what that means, when Trevor posts something like "super intense session" and "full minutes are going to be needed".
Florestan Bronstein draketrain	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:23:00 - [23] Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 01/07/2011 11:23:46 No matter what is really going on behind closed doors - the CSM always profits from creating the impression of having negotiated fiercely with CCP. The legitimacy of the CSM is important to CCP (much easier dealing with a selected few spokespersons, PR value, ...) and even if they could have answered the "golden" question at the very beginning of talks yesterday it would be much better if the CSM has a "victory" to take home after hard negotiations ("look players, these CSM guys are actually achieving stuff for you"). If things don't go that well the CSM does of course also profit from the impression that they fought hard and that discussions were "intense". tl;dr so far we know nothing.
Koh Lin Baudoin	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:27:00 - [24] Apparently something has been "thrashed out". As I feared, this didn't take long. Expect the phases "mutual respect" and "going forward". I suspect this whole exercise has been more spin than substance. The CSM has probably had CCP Economics 101 injected to Level V I warrant. Things may be cleared up, but I have this small feeling that not many people will be pleased. My tip? CCP have a "vision" of EVE as a F2P future where all us playing now are in some way advantaged because of our uber skills etc. etc. Let's see.
Nath Blazek Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Koh Lin Baudoin Originally by: Prodesh I don't know what the dithering is all about. I think it is very obvious. If you cant answer the yellow lettered question with a yes or no then the answer has to be that which u don't want to say. Now what might that be? Good luck all. Gameover! With respect I think we all know all the answer to this "yellow lettered question". This summit is all about how best to break the news. I expect there will be the promise of some future carrot, but you can be certain as soon as the ragers have un-subbed, accepted or been banned the gold ammo will flow. I'm not trying to scaremonger. If it wasn't true CCP would have already ruled it out without flying the CSM in from around the planet on damage control. Yep, I pretty much laid it out in a tweet and got no response as of yet. "@Trebor_CSM How hard is it to say Yes/No/Stipulated in twitter dude, cmon on "gold ammo" silence usually means Yes. its probably cost subs" - o7 Of Course! /me hangs head
Koh Lin Baudoin	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Nath Blazek Yep, I pretty much laid it out in a tweet and got no response as of yet. "@Trebor_CSM How hard is it to say Yes/No/Stipulated in twitter dude, cmon on "gold ammo" silence usually means Yes. its probably cost subs" It will be "Yes. However, once you understand the BIG PICTURE CCP laid out to us it all makes sense!". I can't think of any other way they are going to spin this.
Domina Santa Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:36:00 - [27] Lets hope it's not like the typical movie trailer, which promises you the ride of your life, but it turns out that there were no need to watch the movie, all the best parts were already in the trailer.
TalonClark	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:38:00 - [28] CCP was clever about this, splitting up the community. Before, all CSM member were like "wtf"...now, not anymore. And without organisation, protests can't ever win anything.
Koh Lin Baudoin	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Domina Santa Lets hope it's not like the typical movie trailer, which promises you the ride of your life, but it turns out that there were no need to watch the movie, all the best parts were already in the trailer. Maybe. Was there even an agenda for this junket? What are they even going to discuss now?
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.07.01 11:40:00 - [30] CSM -> http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1106/CCP_CSM_PR.jpg

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