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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.01 13:20:00 -
[31]
Couldn't disagree with the OP more...Dust is coming and it will be as good as CCP's wettest dreams about it.
~Gnosis~ |
Eurynomos
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.01 21:24:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: J Kunjeh
Couldn't disagree with the OP more...Dust is coming and it will be as good as CCP's wettest dreams about it.
Better hope so... although I am sure every developer thinks that, most end up disappointed.
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Paxx Hekki
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Posted - 2011.07.01 21:41:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Paxx Hekki on 01/07/2011 21:46:56
I don't think they should cancel it altogether, I think they should simply place it on the back-burner, apply minimal resources and concentrate on what is and will make them money.
If they don't believe their game will lose the interest of the players in a rather short amount of time, they should pick up Modern Warfare 2 for the PC. I was heartbroken the day I logged in for some action and found it took 20 minutes or more to get my killing thirst quenched.
But then again, maybe I'm wrong?
I play All Points Bulletin and it's got about 200k subs right now, I think. The game is fun, yet still in beta (second time around, different company).
So I don't know. I don't want to knock console players because I mostly play games on my 360, aside from EVE and the aforementioned.
I think, though, the biggest killer of a persistent FPS online world, is the release of a sequel to that world. Aside from the fact that most online FPS progression type games I've played have sucked, horribly.
Tabula Rasa was more 3rd person, game was unique, but died.
Global Agenda is horribly boring. (also 3rd person)
I seem to also remember another game or two that threw you into a hub with a custom character and then you'd sign up for "quests" to jump into a Quake-esque arena for battle. Pretty sure they died too.
And does anyone play Borderlands online? Did anyone ever really care about it that much? Considering Gearbox used some archaic software from the 90's called Gamespy. (different on the xbox, but I own the PC version)
Again, it's a tricky playing field. Maybe too tricky.
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Henrica Gaufridus
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:04:00 -
[34]
It would probably cost MORE to kill Dust 514.
Reasons:
1. CCP is now officially in a partnership with Sony over this, meaning there is (in all likelihood) a contract. Meaning that if CCP decides to **** off, Sony can **** them in court for "lost revenue". Sony has a VERY large legal division (whom I have worked with, and they are vicious), and I believe CCP has one lawyer.
2. CCP has the engine and most of the base stuff for Dust done.
3. Why not kill World of Twilight? They haven't even finished the engine (because we're PLAYING it in CQ, and it's far from done). All they've got for Twilight MMO is an unfinished engine and some emo-vampire pictures.
Like it or not, CCP HAS to finish Dust now. It's not just that they'd have wasted all the money they've put into it, it's that they'll get legally sodomized by Sony if they do. You could look forward to Eve either going bye-bye, or Eve being sold to Sony or Blizzard in order to cover getting their asses sued off.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Eurynomos
It is pretty obvious that CCP has overextended itself, funding three development cycles on one active game.
....And where sir, do you get your data that CCP is somehow in the red and needs to drop projects to stay alive?
Last time I checked, any statements about CCP's financial solvency or insolvency, their current subscription numbers, costs of doing business, and current debt loads, are pure speculation.
Link us to some numbers, real ones, or I call this post a trolling attempt born out of frustration with CCP not developing what you personally want them to develop.
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Wilhelm Riley
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:20:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 01/07/2011 22:20:41
As bad as you think Dust is, cancelling development of a (nearly completed) game is shooting themselves in the foot compared to releasing a failed game.
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Sahzal
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:38:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Sahzal on 01/07/2011 22:40:32
This topic may be right, because we shouldn't just take our community into account, but also the FPS gaming community in Sony. Most FPS gamers who join Dust514 wont realize it's interesting features (Sharing economical things with EVE) because they are not conscious about EVE's relationship with this game. There are also gamers who don't care about the economy, and just want's to be the most skilled shooter, not giving a damn about what's going on with EVE and Dust514. That being said, gamers will be only interested in the games gameplay and nothing else.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Originally by: Eurynomos
It is pretty obvious that CCP has overextended itself, funding three development cycles on one active game.
....And where sir, do you get your data that CCP is somehow in the red and needs to drop projects to stay alive?
Last time I checked, any statements about CCP's financial solvency or insolvency, their current subscription numbers, costs of doing business, and current debt loads, are pure speculation.
Link us to some numbers, real ones, or I call this post a trolling attempt born out of frustration with CCP not developing what you personally want them to develop.
A link to their 2010 annual report was posted here on the forums just a few days ago. Shouldn't be too difficult to find.
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Yuna Lily
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:45:00 -
[39]
They need to cancel World of Darkness. The first person shooter market is so large that all CCP has to do is make a game that receives an above average score from game reviewers and they will make a profit.
The market World of Darkness appeals to is much smaller so the chance for profit is much smaller.
CCP should concentrate on developing Dust for the PS4 as a launch title if possible since PSN doesn't cost money to play online. |
Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:47:00 -
[40]
well u know that if CCP were better with there customers possibly some of us would buy the important "monocle" (a playstation) and then play the game but since they are more worried with us appearing rich in this game im afraid im not planning on it
º--Atreus--º
You've done it now CCP
Mintchip Incarnageddon Edition |
Doc Fury
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:53:00 -
[41]
TBH the cash needed to complete tech and assets for DUST would be far less then World of Dorks. CCP is also much more engaged and committed with DUST right now.
They should just delay WOD, refine their tech (sadly we are the beta testers for that), and release when it is polished to a degree that is better then what we usually get with EVE.
Managing expectations is CCP's Achilles heel. If they dump an EVE-style (i.e. unfinished) product on all the emo and sparkly vampire dress-up folks, they have yet to experience real rage and bad PR.
We're not upset that you lied to us CCP, we're upset that from now on we can't believe you.
/I am not a Golden Goose
/I am not a Cash Cow
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BLACK-STAR
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Posted - 2011.07.01 22:55:00 -
[42]
Console games need successors to their prior titles. CCP can barely give us an proper EVE expansion, what makes you think they can promise DUST514 a lifespan longer than COD at CCPs highest hopes.
CCP, are you bullsh-tting yourselves that the playerbase of EVE aren't going to life support this game for damn all it's worth? after all that's been happening the last couple years and recent events.
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Balthasar Moreq
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Posted - 2011.07.01 23:05:00 -
[43]
Anyone here considered the fact that in announcing that DUST 514 will be on Sony's network that there might be, umh legal reasons why ÇÇP could not just cancel DUST514? LIke they singed a deal with Sony, that there were performance and deliverable clauses in said deal/contract?
You want ÇÇP to concentrate more on EVE? have them put a stake through WoD.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.01 23:07:00 -
[44]
i'm looking forward to dust. I havent seen an MMO FPS game ever, i think it'll be breaking new ground because of the angle CCP is taking on FPS. It wont be 'just another FPS'. it'll be eve with combat shotguns and tanks.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.01 23:18:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
i'm looking forward to dust. I havent seen an MMO FPS game ever, i think it'll be breaking new ground because of the angle CCP is taking on FPS. It wont be 'just another FPS'. it'll be eve with combat shotguns and tanks.
Why do you have that sphincter where your eye should be?
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Garreth Vlox
Minmatar
Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 23:26:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Eurynomos
It is pretty obvious that CCP has overextended itself, funding three development cycles on one active game. The development of EVE itself has been slashed to focus on Dust514 and WoD, alienating the playerbase supporting the entire house of cards. Such a situation is untenable at best. The solution is painful... but necessary.
Dust514 needs to be cancelled and its assets moved to EVE and WoD production. Despite what you may thinking about the noble experiment of tying Dust514 and EVE together, the fact of the matter is that FPS/action games just don't have the lifespan to recoup the money they are expecting from microtransactions. Unless the game is called Battlefield or Call of Duty, a FPS will die rather quickly, and even they are killed off by their successors yearly. CCP seems to be banking on the one-in-a-million shot that they make the next Team Fortress II (which suffered on the consoles btw) Dust514 may provide a quick infusion, but CCP's entire business model for the game seems to revolve around milking those players for microtransactions, which won't occur, especially in the fickle console markets, since players will abandon it as soon as something new comes out.
One of games needs to die, and long-term WoD seems to be more likely to be profitable, with or without MT, due to its built-in fanbase. Even the 800-pound gorilla Blizzard with their billions in revenue, cancelled Starcraft Ghost because they recognized this aspect of action games, coupled with the end of the Xbox/PS2/GC platform lifespan. Yet, CCP is attempting the exact same thing at the trailing edge of the PS3 life-span. Dust514 doesn't even have the advantage of attracting the entire EVE fanbase since people who like "spreadsheets and spaceships" might not necessarily by amicable to a FPS squad based game.
Hard decisions are required and CCP needs to make a change before it is too late.
Anyone agree?
/braces for the fanboi onslaught
agree for one simple reason, CCP's release date for their first ever FPS is slated to be in the same quarter as call of duty AND battlefield 3 now what company in their right ****ing mind would not only willingly BUT intentionally release their first attempt at anything in the same time frame as the 2 best FPS games in the market????????????????????????????????????
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.07.02 00:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Takseen
A link to their 2010 annual report was posted here on the forums just a few days ago. Shouldn't be too difficult to find.
Thank you. That thread was a heady bit to wade through, but very enlightening.
Obviously these things are not up for speculation. I stand corrected!
But really, there is nothing in the financial data that suggests that CCP abandon one project over the other. It is quite clear that they are burning cash into capitalized code, but the company continues to make profits. There is some mild hysteria over the fact that their capital is in the form of code and not cash, but that's how software gets made. It's money in terms of accounting. Whether Dust 514 is a greater a gamble for the company than simply developing EvE is really up to the investors to decide, and they decided two years ago to inject a large amount of cash into the company for this very purpose. It was the investors who decided that these endeavors looked promising, and gave them blessing and the funds to run with these new projects, Dust 514 and WoD alike.
They are using it up now to heavily develop stuff, so what. That's exactly what they intended to do, are doing, and need to do with that cash. What they develop it on is up to them, and I can pretty safely say the people who doubled down on CCP are feeling pretty good about microtransactions being a solid model for Dust 514's ability to add profit to the corporation.
One of the nice things about the way they are tackling these projects, is sharing and developing innovative core technologies. Carbon, some of they Python stuff, Stackless, these are all assets that benefit any of the three projects, adding to their value. Value not to angry forum junkies, but value to other game developers who could build more mainstream, less risky IP's on to CCP technology.
Ultimately, what CCP are doing is creating something. CCP started with a board game, and used its revenue to build something totally different - Eve Online. That they are now using cash from impressed investors to extend themselves out into completely new territory, a strange FPS/MMO/MT frankengame, and "Twilight Online" (as named by those that smugly think spaceships < nerdy than vampires) is not a shocker, they've proved they can pull off this stunt before. Some day, funds will wane from Dust 514 and WoD to develop even more projects, and those players also will rage, but enough will keep going to sustain those, as well. Just as Eve has a following unique and static in the PC MMO market, so Dust will have a unique and static following, it'll just be a different breed of shooter player than your average COD fan.
We did not commission CCP to go forth and build us a game for ourselves. This is not how subscriptions work. We enjoy what they put out, or we don't and stop paying. But its not our place to command them to drop one creative endeavor or another. Such is art, architecture, music, or anything else that gets created, and sold. It is great that they seek our opinions, and listen to us when they decide to, and share as much as they do about what they are up to, but the sense of entitlement that the Eve community has been showing is unfounded.
Many have stopped paying. But the number of unsubs hasn't come even close to actually robbing CCP of any profit. They are totally in the black even with all the unsubs.
The numbers are out there, and I'm not at all alarmed about CCP "crashing and burning" over the wrath of unhappy Eve pilots.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zagdul
Think back to when CCP first started developing EVE and how investing in a single sharded universe was laughed at and that the logistics behind it was impossible, wouldn't work and that they'd fall on their faces then.
8 years later.
You're comparing technical feasibility with marketing. One doesn't necessarily have to do with the other. If Eve we're marketed on it's technical achievements would it sway anyone to purchase it? Not likely.
Not many people are going to care that DUST will/may tie in with Eve. If the events in DUST are going to be persistent I don't think it's going to be a success. Twitched based appeal just doesn't allow for long term investment. The fact that it's an exclusive PS3 is a mistake, IMO. Everyone knows the PS3, while technically superior when it was released, was out competed due to it's price. I hate to use an old example but, it's so telling. VHS versus BetaMAX. The latter was far superior in video quality. The former was the champion of the video tape era due to its affordability and pervasive licensing. BetaMAX was a Sony product. And there too Sony lost the market because of an overly expensive product both to purchase and license. Sony has a history of this happening with it's products.
So DUST, from a company not many people outside of Eve know about, is going to be released on a platform that is already out competed. This doesn't bode well for CCP's decision making or its future.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:24:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
i'm looking forward to dust. I havent seen an MMO FPS game ever, i think it'll be breaking new ground because of the angle CCP is taking on FPS. It wont be 'just another FPS'. it'll be eve with combat shotguns and tanks.
Why do you have that sphincter where your eye should be?
Are you peasants so uneducated that you do not know what a sphincter is?
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Biomassed everyoneelse
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
i'm looking forward to dust. I havent seen an MMO FPS game ever, i think it'll be breaking new ground because of the angle CCP is taking on FPS. It wont be 'just another FPS'. it'll be eve with combat shotguns and tanks.
Tabula Rasa
It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph only equaled by its monumental failure.
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Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:27:00 -
[51]
No.
If anything, WoD development needs to be cancelled.
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Beelzebubz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:30:00 -
[52]
team fortress 2? is that seriously the benchmark for fps now? that genre must be in louie andersons ****ter
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ninjaholic
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
i'm looking forward to dust. I havent seen an MMO FPS game ever, i think it'll be breaking new ground because of the angle CCP is taking on FPS. It wont be 'just another FPS'. it'll be eve with combat shotguns and tanks.
I was looking forward to Du$t514 but now it's $ony Failstation only then it can sink. ÇÇP should have probably done some research? I think the idea is great though. It'll be like a serious version of Battlefield 2142 where I can spend money on stuff that makes me better than everyone else. Yay. Because that's exactly what we need. Another MMOG with an in-game store.
+ Support EVE's own IN-GAME fight record tool!
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.07.02 01:53:00 -
[54]
Cancelling a 4+ year project 1 year from release to appease a whiny little dumbass on an internet forum is sound logic.
Right guys! 
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
No.
If anything, WoD development needs to be cancelled.
WoD is in pre-production, as of the "Fearless" release. So its not like significant development time is being used at the moment. The article basically admits, that MT in EvE assists in funding the other two titles.
That being said, if you're vehemently opposed to Dust or WoD, the easiest way to ensure this happening is not buy a monocle. Or boots, whatever. You'll have a more direct impact on whether those projects float or not. But it doesn't take begging CCP on the forums, or cancelling subs to send that message to CCP. It simply takes the self-restraint necessary to take a deep breath, ignore that shiny NeX button, and keep playing the spaceship game we're all here to play.
I know there's those that are upset they are not handing us brand new features every expansion. But I, like many am here primarily for the experience WE make ourselves with our corporations, wars, and backstabbing. We take pride in not needing them to "add new rides" to the "themepark", right? CCP knows this about its game and its playerbase, and is taking what is likely a safe bet that even if they didn't change a thing to the game for the next 3 years, there is still enough inherently there for the players to fight with, explore, and learn, without getting bored.
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Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:27:00 -
[56]
Dust isnt a problem. The problem is that CCP is unknown by the majority of MMORPG players and releasing another wow clone is a sure fail.
Whoever in CCP had the idea of releasing another MMORPG besides an EVE 2 was totally crazy and so it was CCP's CEO for buying that idea. Its burning down their company and it will be a failure.
There's Guild Wars 2, Star Wars and Diablo 3 coming out soon, theres no market for another MMORPG unless its WOW2, EVE2 OR WORLD OF STARCRAFT in eastern countries. I don't know why CCP can imagine they can succeed where ALL OTHERS ARE FAILING:
DCUO
AGE OF CONAN
EVERQUEST 2
FINAL FANTASY 14
DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS
LOTRO
APB
TABULA RASA
VANGUARD
STAR WARS GALAXIES
RUNESCAPE
ANARCHY ONLINE
And many more i can remember or ever played. All these games failed to the point of changing their payment system or shutting down. THERE IS NO MARKET FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN AAAAAAA+ RANK MMORPG WHEN GUILD WARS2, DIABLO3 AND STAR WARS KOTOR ARE RELEASED.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Eurynomos
àààà but CCP's entire business model for the game seems to revolve around milking those players for microtransactions, which won't occur, especially in the fickle console markets, since players will abandon it as soon as something new comes outààà..
This point captured my attention and youÆll have to forgive me for perhaps not being entirely up to speed on the latest Dust 514 developments. IÆm just not that interested in reading up on a game that will be changed so much by the time itÆs actually released, if itÆs ever released.
I was under the impression that Dust 514 would eventually be a situation in which most of the players would be mercs. These mercs would be hired by EVE players to fight over Planentary Interaction (PI) resources.
IsnÆt that where the majority of the P2W funding in Dust would come from? From EVE players? You knowàààthe people that are so rich in real life that we can afford to have multiple accounts, buy plex and $60 monicles? I kind of thought CCP was depending upon us, the EVE players, to make sure that Dust 514 succeeeded.
-Windjammer
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Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:36:00 -
[58]
Kill WoD not dust. WoD built in the US, Dust built in China, Dust cheaper. WoD is going to sell to people who like barbie dress up, Dust will appeal to gamers; Barbie dress up people don't play many games. WoD doesn't expand the EVE universe, Dust does. WoD brought us Incarna, Dust will hopefully bring mosre improvements to spaceships and such.
Kill WoD.
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Zattakar
DaVinci Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:39:00 -
[59]
CCP cant even code a one room CQ without melting everyone's GPU, call me skeptical that they can even pull off Dust.
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Weeble Tauri
Caldari
Battle Cattle
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:44:00 -
[60]
DUST514 should continue on. It may make a splash.
WoD however, needs to die.
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