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One Question Still: Dock>ShipSpinning>CQ, or Dock>CQ>ShipSpinning?

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Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.02 17:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 02/07/2011 17:14:30 I am glad that things were, so far as we can see, resolved at the extraordinary meeting. But there is still one question that makes some of us (and yes, not only me. Us. I've seen more than a fair share of people with the same question). Ship Spinning. What we are basically asking for, is Dock > Hangar > Button to disembark (CQ). But, from my understanding of what was agreed upon, it is going to be Dock > Captain's Quarters > Option to go Ship Spinning?! Is that it? I hope not.. hope it was just a misunderstanding.. We don't want hangar view back because "ship spinning" was "kewl". We want hangar view back because it was FAST. We could just dock; double-click our ship's for cargohold; drag ship from the Ship's Hangar to the main-screen to activate it; it made total sense; it didn't break immersion. THEN, after we docked up and went to the hangar, if we wanted to enter Captain's Quarters we could just hit a "disembark" button. "But then our players wouldn't have any real reason to enter the Captain's Quarters!!!". Well, we have no reason to BE at the Captain's Quarters at the moment.. because the Captain's Quarters doesnt do anything! So i hope that CCP does NOT plans on bringing hangar view back, on the condition that one has to go through the Captain's Quarters FIRST, because not only would that be pointless, it would be an even further failure of communication/understanding on part of CCP. What we obvioulsy want is the other way around. EDIT: By the way, i am not trying to discuss the CSM/CCP meeting, so do not lock the thread. ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Ianus Caldari Geminus Gateway	Posted - 2011.07.02 17:54:00 - [2] I'd like to know this too. My sub is depending on it. Hopefully there will be a devblog with details on this soon.
Yin Utada	Posted - 2011.07.02 17:57:00 - [3] The hangar won't come back for a few months, for that I'm sure.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2011.07.02 17:58:00 - [4] One of the first things I spotted. Incredible nativity shown from the collaborator council when it was clear from the start CCP were going to use semantics to attempt to wriggle out of this. (o)
Holly Cleland Special Operations Foxhound	Posted - 2011.07.02 17:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Holly Cleland on 02/07/2011 17:58:45 I'm sure they'll add in an option that allows people to have their preference "Upon docking go straight to quarters" in place of 'Don't load station environment' cause I'm sure it'll be removed once ship spinning is added back in, and there'll likely be an option where the undock button is for enter quarters, still I'm sure this is the least of our problems now, what I wanna know is what's planned for the future. edit: typo
Yoichiro Nambu	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:02:00 - [6] Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu. yours truly
Yin Utada	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Holly Cleland Edited by: Holly Cleland on 02/07/2011 17:58:45 I'm sure they'll add in an option that allows people to have their preference "Upon docking go straight to quarters" in place of 'Don't load station environment' cause I'm sure it'll be removed once ship spinning is added back in, and there'll likely be an option where the undock button is for enter quarters, still I'm sure this is the least of our problems now, what I wanna know is what's planned for the future. edit: typo Making horrible skins for all the ships so people have to buy skins from NEX if they want to look at something decent while the play, to name one.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:03:00 - [8] Edited by: Mag''s on 02/07/2011 18:03:29 Originally by: CSM , and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. Completely missed the point and side stepped player requests. Now this will get buried under the talk of MT. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 02/07/2011 18:04:06 Originally by: Yin Utada The hangar won't come back for a few months, for that I'm sure. and if you read carefullly it's only coming back until CQ is less of a resource hog... so if they get that "fixed" in their own minds first, then they won't have to release the "hanger" again at all. Originally by: 'csm' Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Renan Ruivo I hope not.. hope it was just a misunderstanding.. We don't want hangar view back because "ship spinning" was "kewl". We want hangar view back because it was FAST. Well, some of us want it back for immersion's sake. The fact that it will always be faster to load than CQ is an additional benefit. I agree that the CCP/CSM statement is much less than satisfactory and is quite ambiguous. Reading it brings back rage over all the other features 'promised' but never implemented like engine trails, AF 4th bonus, 0.0 and lowsec revamp, etc. Is this one more thing that we'll have to wait for years and years to happen while reading CCP devs's placating forum posts? Probably. Anyway, please sign the Assembly Hall thread requesting the ship spinning hangar. Thx. ... Return the Old Hangar Back... for Immersion.

CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:12:00 - [11] This is something that is best addressed by the team responsible for the design. For a change of this nature you can definitely expect a Dev Blog in the future. I appreciate you guys have a lot of questions and here is my promise to you: I will be gathering a list of the most asked questions regarding the return of ship spinning, minimum specs and other issues raised form the blog and shall present these to CCP Zulu, CCP Flying Scotsman and CCP Soundwave next week. Some of these questions may have to be answered by product owners of various different teams but we will keep you up to date as soon as we can. Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: CCP Navigator Return of ship spinning This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog. But you missed the point entirly. We wanted the choice of when to disembark. You've basically said, 'sure you can have spinning back, but we've left the door open so we can pull it asap.' Yup.. not a misunderstanding on my part, just wishfull thinking. CCP really got it all wrong again /me facepalm. ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:19:00 - [13] Why can't ship spinning come back? That is the question, although the real question is why ungoo to pick up ammo or a bookmark? Why not have dock be the EXACT 100% same way as before? then over undock button, you have disembark. WHY? ================================================== Anyone can shoot themselves in the foot, or the ass, but in this case CCP managed to do both with one shot, which takes real skill. -CSM Trebor
Barrick Mane	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Ianus I'd like to know this too. My sub is depending on it. Hopefully there will be a devblog with details on this soon. Your sub is actually heavily dependent on ship spinning? Really?!? Bloody hell, well each to his own I guess...
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:22:00 - [15] Originally by: CCP Navigator This is something that is best addressed by the team responsible for the design. For a change of this nature you can definitely expect a Dev Blog in the future. I appreciate you guys have a lot of questions and here is my promise to you: I will be gathering a list of the most asked questions regarding the return of ship spinning, minimum specs and other issues raised form the blog and shall present these to CCP Zulu, CCP Flying Scotsman and CCP Soundwave next week. Some of these questions may have to be answered by product owners of various different teams but we will keep you up to date as soon as we can. Thanks for this, and hopefully there is a genuine desire on the part of CCP to actually implement this feature in the form that makes sense to the players and to EVE canon. Please read the OP in the linked thread to get an understanding of this issue from the point of view of immersion (which is supposed to be one of Incarna's main features). ... Return the Old Hangar Back... for Immersion.
Ianus Caldari Geminus Gateway	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:22:00 - [16] From the CCP statement the following gave me pause: Originally by: CCP The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu. And its even worse on CSM's take of it: Originally by: CSM Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden. English is not my native tongue, but am I right in my understanding: That ship spinning will return sometime in the future in an as-of-yet unknown fashion, but presumably different than what we had before; That this future form of ship spinning will too be removed once everyone (95% of players anyway) is running the CQ smoothly (3-5 years from now?) I sincerely hope I'm misinterpreting those quotes.
CCCP Supersmug	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Why can't ship spinning come back? That is the question, although the real question is why ungoo to pick up ammo or a bookmark? Why not have dock be the EXACT 100% same way as before? then over undock button, you have disembark. WHY? because ccp is all about spaceship barbie. If you don't see your avatar you won't buy him pretty dresses will you? The change they'll add is instead of being able to look at your ship out a window you'll actually be able to walk down to the hanger and get a better view of the ship. CCP has totally missed that people want OUT of CQ and are not going to give it back.
Violine Ming Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:26:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Navigator This is something that is best addressed by the team responsible for the design. For a change of this nature you can definitely expect a Dev Blog in the future. I appreciate you guys have a lot of questions and here is my promise to you: I will be gathering a list of the most asked questions regarding the return of ship spinning, minimum specs and other issues raised form the blog and shall present these to CCP Zulu, CCP Flying Scotsman and CCP Soundwave next week. Some of these questions may have to be answered by product owners of various different teams but we will keep you up to date as soon as we can. I was curious about the ship spinning implementation too... but I'm even more curious about when CCP will shift some focus back to the Internet Spaceship game in general (Hybrids, FW, yada, yada, yada). I believe you are dedicating less than 10% of your dev bandwidth to the Internet spaceship part of the game? I've seen a bunch of different statistics out there but that one stuck in my head. Honestly, it feels like less than 10%. Incarna was just underwhelming for me with so many things broken and going unaddressed for so long. Glad the P2W thing is off the table. That one was a non-starter for me.
Ianus Caldari Geminus Gateway	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Barrick Mane Your sub is actually heavily dependent on ship spinning? Really?!? Bloody hell, well each to his own I guess... It's not that simple, but yeah I suppose you could say that. Originally by: Barrick Mane Bloody hell, well each to his own I guess... Exactly.
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:27:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP Navigator This is something that is best addressed by the team responsible for the design. For a change of this nature you can definitely expect a Dev Blog in the future. I appreciate you guys have a lot of questions and here is my promise to you: I will be gathering a list of the most asked questions regarding the return of ship spinning, minimum specs and other issues raised form the blog and shall present these to CCP Zulu, CCP Flying Scotsman and CCP Soundwave next week. Some of these questions may have to be answered by product owners of various different teams but we will keep you up to date as soon as we can. Thanks for the reply, Navigator. I do hope, however, that you bring to the attention of the responsible people that what we want, precisely, is not to Spin Ships. We want to be able to do everything that we were able to do, but with the same ease and as fast as we were able to do it. A quick list: 1.Double-click ship for cargohold Right now, if we are on the "inside" of the CQ, we need to jump through additional hoops to open the cargohold. Unless you're facing one of the two available ship holograms. And even that is a little painfull, as you need to mouse-over the hologram for the options to appear, and you need to be quite near the hologram for it to appear. Not to mention, that for it to work as painlessly as it did, on top of all that you also need the CQ to be active on options. Good luck if you need to access the cargohold of different ships on different accounts. Right now, if you want to access your cargohold with CQ disabled, you need to open "Ships [ALT+N]", wait for the ships to load (laggy, if you have more than a couple of ships) and right click the ship, then cargohold. Too painfull; 2.Drag ship to screen to make it active Now this is a pain in the rear regardless of the CQ being active or not. Before incarna, you could drag a ship to the main-screen and it would become active. Kudos for fast dock'n change ship. Now you have to open "Ships [ALT+N]", right click a ship, and click "Make Active"; 3.SEEING what type of ship you are currently in I know, this sounds silly, but before incarna you knew what ship you were in the second the game loaded. Now, unless you're on the balcony its not immediatly clear what ship you are flying. This is painfull if you're only logging in to attend to an emergency situation brought to you by friends. These are only a few of the issues that i'm quite positive that many if not all of the playerbase will agree. And i am also quite sure that there are many others, which i hope, will be brought forward either on this thread or on other threads. Please, keep an eye on this issue and don't let us down ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:33:00 - [21] Why is it not possible to simply put the old environment back? Did you throw it all away? It worked beautifully.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Renan Ruivo Thanks for the reply, Navigator. I do hope, however, that you bring to the attention of the responsible people that what we want, precisely, is not to Spin Ships. You need to start speaking for yourself here dude. While I do agree on your major points, this statement doesn't represent the entirety of this issue. I'm just afraid that is you keep pushing this you'll get a door with all that functionality. ... Return the Old Hangar Back... for Immersion.
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:45:00 - [23] Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 02/07/2011 18:48:50 Originally by: Mr LaForge Why is it not possible to simply put the old environment back? Did you throw it all away? It worked beautifully. Well, CCP hasn't gave any answers to this exact question, but i am going with "It is because you don't get to see your space doll on hangar view. And unless you see your space doll, you will not spend money on the NeX store.". It is controversial, but it is the only one that gives sense to that adamant mentality of not bringing old ship hangar view back. Captain's Quarters have no use at the moment, so unless you are forced into it, there is really no reason to go there. And if you don't go there, you don't see shiny new clothes. If that is the case i'll cry BS. This is just the first version of the CQ, and i'm quite sure it'll have a lot more content and functionality on the future, and a boatload of reasons for people to go there. Navigator.. CCP... we want the option to disembark instead of being forced into CQ from the get go. Forcing us: 1: Breaks immersion. It makes no sense.. you're just docking to load some ammo, but still you exit your ship with your pod, exit your pod with your avatar - which from EVE canon is a little unpleasant for the capsuleer - naked (on a catwalk and on public no less), then go inside, dress up, and walk back to the balcony. Then load ammo, then repeat the entire process to undock. Why not just dock, load ammo, undock?. 2: Means that you presume to know more about what we want than we know ourselves. This does not sounds like the CCP i knew and came to love back on 2003. 3: Makes no sense. We will willingly go there once some real functionality is added to WiS (which Captain's Quarters is part of). Trust us. Originally by: Razin Originally by: Renan Ruivo Thanks for the reply, Navigator. I do hope, however, that you bring to the attention of the responsible people that what we want, precisely, is not to Spin Ships. You need to start speaking for yourself here dude. While I do agree on your major points, this statement doesn't represent the entirety of this issue. I'm just afraid that is you keep pushing this you'll get a door with all that functionality. The "us" and "we" on the posts i make, allude to the fact that there are more people other than myself that sees things the way i am writing them. Its not just me. As you pointed out, its not what you see.. and that is fine. You're not included on the "us" and "we". Its just semantics. Note that in no moment i have written "YOUR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE" like other people do. If you read that, or anything that gave you that impression just point it out and i'll correct it. As for myself, i'd see no issue on getting all the functionalities that i pointed out with a wallpaper on the background ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Salpun Gallente Paramount Commerce	Posted - 2011.07.02 18:47:00 - [24] I do not know about everyone put if you add ships and items to the station panel which is the way I have it. the only thing missing is the cargo hold window which stays open when you dock. Open all windows you want from the fitting window and place them on your neocom minimized. takes 5 sec and is faster then right clicking all the time. Only functionality missing is drag and drop ships and that was a fuction most did not know existed any way. We will just have to see what the test server looks like in a few weeks.
Ay Liz Sacred Templars RED.OverLord	Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 - [25] The theory that they force us into CQ to sell NEX items isn't really sound. If that was the reason, they could have just put in more Monocle-ish things, like other cyber implants or hats in the shop. Stuff that shows up on the portrait. Considering this, i really have no idea what they are thinking. I always thought they would implement it like proposed here and in the assembly hall. It just doesn't make sense for the reasons already stated.
Sellendis Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.02 19:25:00 - [26] Edited by: Sellendis on 02/07/2011 19:25:51 Thea easiest way and by far the fastest would be just putting old hangar view and its functionality as default docking, and then disembarking to CQ. No redesign, no loosing time small crap, just put it in front of CQ and give us a disembark option. Space -> docking -> hangar view -> disembark to CQ. For gods sake CCP, dont try to invent the wheel again, we already had something that worked nicely. It was easy on PC performance, it looked brilliant, it had drag and drop ship change functionality, double click cargo opening and of course, ship zoom/un-zoom spinning and enjoying the looks of our latest purchase. @Navigator - please tell the devs them we dont want fancy new things, we want fast and functional interface we already had. We can play dress-up with our chars once WiS goes fully live, right now forcing it to look at our chars (with room lighting not worth a damn) has no purpose. Cute things in the room like TV, sofa and new stuff should not take first place in goddamn space ship game. Free Helicity Boson
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.02 19:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Originally by: Novak Sarin Trebor: Will there be meeting minutes released to the community, as promised on twitter? and if so, when? Yes, and as soon as possible. AFAIK CCP is going to help with transcribing them. All the sessions were video-recorded (as usual). Originally by: Tester128 this essentialy means that a HeX store next door to NeX is not in any way bound by this statement. Not even CCP is so clueless as to believe that they could get away with this. Originally by: Mag's Trebor Daehdoow you need to get on here man and explain this ship spinning BS. OK, here it is as best I can explain it given my current lack of sleep; Navigator and Soundwave can correct me if I've mucked this up. Keep in mind that CCP hasn't designed this out yet, so things may change around a bit. The major problem is that right now it takes longer to dock to Incarna (more resources must be loaded) and some functionality that the classic hangar view had isn't there -- so for example it's harder to dock, unload ore, and get back into space for more exciting mining action. And of course, no ship spinning. The shorter-term fix is adding something similar to classic hangar view that has those features (and of course, ship spinning) and can load faster. You will be able to dock to that, or to Incarna, or go between them. At some point in time, Incarna will also have all the missing features (including ship spinning) and can load in a similar amount of time to classic hangar view. At that point, CCP may remove the new hangar view (you might, for example, enter incarna looking at your ship, right in front of you ready to be spun). My personal attitude is that I'd prefer they didn't, but if they come up with something awesome, it might become a moot point. PS: I believe that CCP was straight with us in the meetings, and that they are not going to weasel. But everyone should remember the famous words of that great philosopher, Ronald Reagan, spoken not far from where we met: "Trust, but Verify" I trust Zulu to keep his word. But I and the rest of the CSM will verify that he does. Would just like to quote this here. Good then, i like what he wrote (my favourite CSM btw, <3 Trebor). This just somewhat leaves the "immersion" issue to be properly adressed. If what CCP implements on the future makes enough sense not to break my immersion, than it will all be fine. We know that the current version of Captain's Quarters is as immersive as a puddle of mud, and by that "we" i do presume to speak for the whole EVE community. Yeah i'm being arrogant. Eat that. But since it has been stated that this version will be somewhat scrapped, and that no-one not under NDA has seen their plans for that yet, then i'll be patient and do exactly what Trebor has said.. trust them to keep their word, but verify what they do. ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Cthulhu F'taghn SniggWaffe	Posted - 2011.07.02 19:28:00 - [28] Replace door with shiny new version of old ship spinning will turn ****carna into Incarna.
Deamos Dev Null Development and Holdings	Posted - 2011.07.02 19:32:00 - [29] I would say Dock <-> Hangar <-> CQ I also say, once you enter the CQ, the Neocomm should be severely reduced. Give me some immersion that I am no longer on the grid. -
Toawa EVE Mercantile Exchange Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2011.07.02 19:33:00 - [30] Originally by: Renan Ruivo and right click the ship, then cargohold. Too painfull; You can also double click the ship icon to get the cargohold.

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