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CSM Minutes: ABC ore nerf in whs

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Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.07.18 03:55:00 - [31] I wonder if CSM is getting confused about thousands versus millions when examining the figures that CCP provided? Then again, it could be an attempt to get a WH nerf in under the radar while trying to distract everyone with, "oh look! Supercaps nerf!" [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]
Tarinara	Posted - 2011.07.18 17:48:00 - [32] Quote: Wow, and I will quote (who I think is Mittani). Quote: I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 whatever and get ABC, when ABC is typically something, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space far from empire. Jesus H. Fcking Christ!! This has got to be the stupidest fcking statement ( of supposed FACT(!) ) I have ever seen! As a player who has had a character live in both a C4 and a C6 system, and I'm sure ANYONE with any amount of time spent in Dubya space will agree: THIS SHYTE DON'T HAPPEN! Sorry - opening your mouth and making that kind of general statement shows you know NOTHING about the subject matter you're professing knowledge to. ZERO, ZILCH, DE NADA. While I had time away from Eve, I don't EVER remember a WH exit right into Jita. Closest I remember is maybe 5 jumps ( and people had to change their soiled underwear when that happened ). It was a crap shoot where you had exits to, and it wasn't always Caldari space. Or even HiSec. Making it sound like there's some WH exit superhighway system into Jita is plain ignorance and pander to your Null Sec ( ABC bot mining no doubt ) buddies. Not to mention spreading misinformation ( dare I say - DAMN LIES ) to players of Eve who don't know anything about wormhole space and might see you, as CSM President, as having some understanding of how the game works. You go take around 20 people into a wormhole and live for a couple month. then come back here ( or your CSM fireside chat ) and tell everyone how easy it is moving stuff around and how easy it is to mine ( much less find ) sites in a wormhole. Originally by: Elaine Solarheart The guy in the C4 has to stay there, near the hole to our system, to prevent the Orca from being bushwhacked from there. The Orca is on its own to crush the hisec static. One more time, let's assume we get lucky, and this goes without a hitch. 1/2 an hour later, the hole is crushed. If one of your folks can fly it Elaine: try a plated up Domi w/an AB for crashing holes. That was our proffered method, along w/having one of our guys loose an Ocra when he miscalculated the mass and ended up on the null sec side of a WH once. A Domi is a little cheaper on the wallet in those instances.
Hathrul	Posted - 2011.07.19 11:41:00 - [33] the complete ignorance if someone who is supposed to represent the player base is astonishing reality check. wormholes are much more dangerous then most 0sec. the massive blue blobs are probebly the safest places in the eve universe. why dont we remove abc there? Oh, wait, because mittani lives there. ABC is mostly mined by bots. as said a 100 times, the amount of abc actually going out of a wormhole to empire space is minor. 2% of the players live in wormholes, and most dont do anything with the gravs as far as ive heard. so the amount of minerals comming from there is barely worth mentioning. it should be removed from class 1-4, maybe not 5 and 6. same mistake as saying 0sec is more dangerous then wormhole space. the shallow wormhole classes see a lot more traffic then class 5 and 6. youre confusing with what should be dangerous with what actually is dangerous. granted, comparing class 5 to blue nullsec is like comparing sivala to amamake. yes, class 5 is dangerous, but not nearly as bad as the shallow classes you can mine abc 2 jumps from jita. and yes, mercoxit as well sometimes. well, you could, in theory. fact is, all lower classes are occupied, especially everything with a static highsec. Go mine in the last piece of 0sec that isnt blue to you and then tell me its so much safer also, the amount of jumps from a tradehub or main mission hub kind of dictates how much traffic you get. bring a hulk in a C2 close to jita, and youre 99% dead. the chance of being shot by residents is about 50%, the other 50% from empire people who come there the same way as you do. its just 2 from jita. im sorry, but this entire argument is invalid, badly supported and brought by people who have no clue what they are talking about. as far as i can see, they are only trying to secure more income for themselves. even though in this case it wouldnt make any difference.
D'Leh Mannuck	Posted - 2011.07.19 12:35:00 - [34] Rofl, I remember how the CSM boasted about how knowledgeable they were about game mechanics etc. And now they prove they know jack ****.
Last Star Fighter	Posted - 2011.07.19 15:12:00 - [35] THE MITTANI IS DUMB AS **. THE TRAFFIC IN THE LOW END WORM HOLES LIKE C1S AND C2S IF FAR HEAVIER THAN C5 AND C6 DUE TO THE FACT THE VAST AMOUNT OF ENTRANCES FROM HIGH SEC. HIGHER TRAFFIC = HIGHER RISK REALLY GETTING TIRED OF HIS, "NERF EVERYTHING I AM NOT INVOLVED IN NOW!" CRYING. SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS**
Khaed Duhn Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate	Posted - 2011.07.27 11:07:00 - [36] To skip over the whole mass limit for a Hulk in a C1 issue (because that should be obvious). I'd mainly like to say that from actually living in a wormhole, though my play time is poop all at the moment, the risk will actually increase if you were to try to mine in a wormhole that close to Jita. The logic being that when you get a high concentration of players in one area the chance that one of them is in the mood to go wormhole diving is increased, and that you end up having a very bad day. To remove these ores from any wormhole is a very silly idea, and my best suggestion is for the CSMs who have never lived in W Space to do a bit more research before anything like this happens. I'm pretty sure they would be high on the list of people who would tell me to do the same if I started to comment on 0.0 and sov mechanics and started making elementary mistakes.
Super Chair Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.07.29 17:59:00 - [37] To be honest these hulks in blue NAP fest space are safer than highsec hulks. Move ABC ore to high sec (using failttani's logic of risk vs reward here) as anyone can gank you with some cheap dessies in such a densely populated area of space versus the only thing around you in nullsec is friendlies. Clearly, ABC ore prices are determined soley by the output of the occasional miner that finds a grav site in a WH once a week, mines for an hour or two and theres no more ABC ore left and NOT the legions of bots churning out ABC ore 23/7 with respawning roids and abundant availability of sites.
Lakitel	Posted - 2011.07.30 16:30:00 - [38] Ok, while nearly every single person who lives in High sec and has had even a cursory encounter with WHs knows how silly, illogical and nepotistic this issue is, its not going to make a difference because CMS is run by null-sec. That being said, I think we need to get some organization and create a proper party with proper high sec candidates for CSM so that we can stop this from happening and get some representation in CSM for high sec. As such I know there are some people out there who are trying to organize something or are calling for the organization of some party. If you are one of those people, shoot me an in game mail and we can start figuring this whole thing out. Regardless of what the null sec griefers and trolls say, high sec can get easily organized if people put even a little effort into it.
Zirse Minmatar ZED Industries	Posted - 2011.07.30 21:02:00 - [39] Originally by: Lakitel Ok, while nearly every single person who lives in High sec and has had even a cursory encounter with WHs knows how silly, illogical and nepotistic this issue is, its not going to make a difference because CMS is run by null-sec. That being said, I think we need to get some organization and create a proper party with proper high sec candidates for CSM so that we can stop this from happening and get some representation in CSM for high sec. As such I know there are some people out there who are trying to organize something or are calling for the organization of some party. If you are one of those people, shoot me an in game mail and we can start figuring this whole thing out. Regardless of what the null sec griefers and trolls say, high sec can get easily organized if people put even a little effort into it. You are so clueless its cute. Just so you know, whether or not CCP decides to nerf ABCs will have nothing to do with the CSM. CCP brought it up to them, and the CSM isn't really pursuing it beyond, 'yeah, that seems ****ed,' when presented with CCP's data. Until they release the data, you should really refrain from knotting up your panties to many times.
Lakitel	Posted - 2011.07.31 07:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Zirse Originally by: Lakitel Ok, while nearly every single person who lives in High sec and has had even a cursory encounter with WHs knows how silly, illogical and nepotistic this issue is, its not going to make a difference because CMS is run by null-sec. That being said, I think we need to get some organization and create a proper party with proper high sec candidates for CSM so that we can stop this from happening and get some representation in CSM for high sec. As such I know there are some people out there who are trying to organize something or are calling for the organization of some party. If you are one of those people, shoot me an in game mail and we can start figuring this whole thing out. Regardless of what the null sec griefers and trolls say, high sec can get easily organized if people put even a little effort into it. You are so clueless its cute. Just so you know, whether or not CCP decides to nerf ABCs will have nothing to do with the CSM. CCP brought it up to them, and the CSM isn't really pursuing it beyond, 'yeah, that seems ****ed,' when presented with CCP's data. Until they release the data, you should really refrain from knotting up your panties to many times. You know, maybe, just maybe, if you had come up with a valid argument that didn't include lots of sarcasm and lack of understanding of the issue, then I MIGHT have considered giving some effort to coming up with a counter-argument, but as it stands now, you really aren't worth the effort. Thanks for trying, come again!

Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.02 18:43:00 - [41] Originally by: Zirse You are so clueless its cute. Just so you know, whether or not CCP decides to nerf ABCs will have nothing to do with the CSM. CCP brought it up to them, and the CSM isn't really pursuing it beyond, 'yeah, that seems ***ed,' when presented with CCP's data. Until they release the data, you should really refrain from knotting up your panties to many times. Actually - the CSM should know enough to tell them "working as intended" - instead of going from "lack of knowledge of WH mechanics/issues" to "W-Space import/export experts" in five minutes... Wormholes: The NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
D'Leh Mannuck	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:19:00 - [42] The whole idea of nerfing ABC's in WH's is that the playing field is too leveld in there and as such the null sec entities can't control the few ABC's from WH's as they do in null sec. There is no local in WH's, there is no option to blob with 40+ SC's, no sov warfare etc. So why would such a place have ABC's.
Raid'En	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:38:00 - [43] Edited by: Raid''En on 09/08/2011 14:39:00 mittens don't care, but if you continue to talk about, he may do it, just for the fun of trolling you and harvesting some tears.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.10 06:52:00 - [44] Originally by: Raid'En Edited by: Raid''En on 09/08/2011 14:39:00 mittens don't care, but if you continue to talk about, he may do it, just for the fun of trolling you and harvesting some tears. Do what? You act like Mitts has got some kind of power. He was onboard with taking ABC's out of lower class WH's and then, when it became a noticeable topic, said he didn't care. If ABC ores are removed from the lower class WHÆs, Mitts will say he did it. ôNot that it was important to me but I did it because itÆs not K-space null sec.ö If the status quo is maintained, heÆll say he didnÆt really care. ôIt was a trivial matter and I have better things to doö. Smoke and mirrors, no substance. If things happen that you donÆt like, donÆt blame the CSM. Blame CCP. CCP is the only one with the power and they know the CSM is largely K-space null sec oriented. CCP knows the CSM does not represent the majority of EVE and if CCP doesnÆt act on that knowledgeàà..who you going to blame? The CSM? The CSM, particularly Mitts, is very up front about who they represent. -Windjammer
Vance Komorov	Posted - 2011.08.12 11:34:00 - [45] Null sec butthurt pirates don't sell the damn ore, they turn it into ships and use it, very little is sold. Don't screw us over because of some butthurt null campers that have no idea what living in a WH is like. Your WH doesn't stay a jump from Jita for more than 24h and it could take a week or more before it is within reasonable jump distance from a major hub. A good number of us also use these ores for productions and paying the outrageous price that these null butthurts were charging was no good.
Krakaan Byzantia Gallente Bolt Action Drive by The Imperial Senate	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:50:00 - [46] Ive been in a c5 with static c3 for a little under 2 weeks and I can already tell just how annoying it is to wait for a good pipe to open to move loot or ore to and from highsec. I'm not against removing ABC ore from the lower sites 1-3 as long as it is AS or slightly MORE profitable than lowsec which is what the lower classes (should be) comparable to. C4-C6 should remain untouched. -------------------------------------------------- This world is kill or be killed never forget it.
FloppieTheBanjoClown	Posted - 2011.08.12 22:44:00 - [47] Wormholes are nearly perfect. Leave them the hell alone. It sounds to me like the alliance carebears out in null don't like the loss of market control to wormholes. After all, they can't establish an empire in w-space in which they can safely botmine all day long. If anything, I'd say make ABC wormhole-only. There's REAL risk out there. Leave the ABC in C1/C2 space. It doesn't spawn in nearly the quantities of higher classes, the wormholes are smaller (collapse with less mass) so it's harder to move ore out, and they're more actively visited by pirates and rival corps looking for easy kills.
Rendaw	Posted - 2011.08.14 07:05:00 - [48] Deal with the bot miners first. Then look at the prices a week later. what a joke
Riveting Tale Sibling	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:30:00 - [49] Mittens - You're a moron. Please, go mine in a C1/C2/C3 WH and enjoy your express trip to HS. Maybe, before commenting on W-Space, you should try living there. It requires dedication and skill, unlike.. oh, I don't know.. paying Sov. bills?
Zirse Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Riveting Tale Sibling Mittens - You're a moron. Please, go mine in a C1/C2/C3 WH and enjoy your express trip to HS. Maybe, before commenting on W-Space, you should try living there. It requires dedication and skill, unlike.. oh, I don't know.. paying Sov. bills? Since when does spamming dscan constitute skill?

Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:25:00 - [51] Same time the CSM members opened their mouths and removed all doubt. Down with the CSM. Remove the CSM and incorporate a flash screen for every one to vote for upcoming changes upon logging into game.
Zirse Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:23:00 - [52] Edited by: Zirse on 16/08/2011 05:26:49 Originally by: Dusty Warrior Same time the CSM members opened their mouths and removed all doubt. Down with the CSM What is this I don't even....
FloppieTheBanjoClown	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Zirse Since when does spamming dscan constitute skill? Since stealth bombers, recon ships, and cloaky T3s became the tool of choice for jumping w-space miners. D-scan doesn't have much value. I've met blackops fleets who exclusively roam wormhole to wormhole killing miners and PvE ships.
Firanas Erin	Posted - 2011.08.19 16:11:00 - [54] This is seriously messed up. I especially like the "who were surprised to learn that WH space was nullsec" part. Well hello. There are no rules in nullsec and there are no rules in w-space. Sp why is there supposed to be a differance? Just because w-space is not smack in the middle of the pvp-greifing zone suddenly w-space residents don't deserve the same even when everyone who wants to is just as free to come blow us up as they are in nullsec? To me it sounds more like "We are to lazy to go there so make them come to us"-whine from the nullsec residents.
Andramedae	Posted - 2011.08.22 09:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Ronin Nazuri Is the CSM turning into a self-serving bunch of Null sec alliance carebears? What do you mean "turning into"? Many thought that they had turned this way around CSM2.
One CoolCat	Posted - 2011.08.31 22:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Bagehi The more heated the opposition is to removing ABCs from the low end WHs, the more I am for the removal. If it was only a rare thing that wasn't aggressively sought out, few people shouldn have a problem with them being removed. Now, granted, the C5, C6 WHs are a whole different animal, and they have a right to be angry about the removal of minerals which are a giant pain to obtain otherwise. Plus, those systems are more on par with the risks of null sec mining than other WHs. How long have you lived in wormhole space sir ? Let me explain since obviously you're a bit delusional. Low end wh == nullsec close to emire. Mining in c3 static highsec == mining in hed-gp or pf-346. Mining in C6 == mining in deep 0.0.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2011.09.06 00:27:00 - [57] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 06/09/2011 00:27:07 If your going to argue this subject...consider the following: 1: Have you ever mined in a WHS system for ABC ores? 2: Ever try to move that **** out by yourself? 3: Ever do so without any risk invovled? No local means no visual verification your not alone.... 0.0 means all bets are off. If you think its just too easy and it warrants ABC ores...then you truely are naive as you are stupid. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================


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