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oulley spy
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:52:00 -
[1]
Greetings.
Since I started being more pro at my IRL work, I've had more time to read up on the EvE forums, especially this one. Have to say i am quite amazed at the extent of which the economics in EvE are at. One could do a dissertation on this. Or even more..
Anyway, I myself am a PvPer of sorts. I've never took the time to try make an actual profit in EvE(of course, the occasional 2 bil worth of loot carebear), though after 6 years of semi-continuous play I have gotten a bit bored of most things and trading in EvE sounds indeed challenging.
I am going to ask a question. Don't misunderstand it. I am not looking to copy anyone nor steal secrets but just to make an idea of what my options as a trader are.
If you had 1.5 bil and wanted to make at least 30-40% of it in a few days, investing a bit of hard work, what would you do?
I won't lie, it is my current situation but even if someone posts a "genius" idea it's not likely I will take it. I am always the one to come up with my own but hearing how people got theirs helps me broaden my horizon.
So I guess this is it. Looking forward to the replies.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:16:00 -
[2]
Buy TII mods and rigs in Jita, haul off to a nullsec station, sell.
Without access to nullsec, try a null entry trade hub.
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Get Paid
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Posted - 2011.07.13 05:07:00 -
[3]
I've done the jita to 0.0 stuff. It sells sort of slow but the mark up is nice. I bring drams and commonly used auto cannons and +3 perceptions out there. I make more profit on stuff I buy cheap in 0.0 and bring to jita.
Best advice is learn to read a graph and trade mins and salvage imoright from jita.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.13 08:31:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: oulley spy
If you had 1.5 bil and wanted to make at least 30-40% of it in a few days, investing a bit of hard work, what would you do?
Last week I made 4% in a day. But since I did not invest in any hard work at all (I pressed 2 buttons, you seem to want to sweat hard) I suppose you don't want the advice.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Maya Ranger
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:50:00 -
[5]
Hard work, and not just a bit of it. once you really except that fact, you will survive against countless hoards of competing merchants.
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Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.07.13 14:45:00 -
[6]
I'd buy a freighter. Everyone knows freighters make you loads of money.
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oulley spy
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:24:00 -
[7]
Well I can fly one but should i freighter npc goods or minerals or big stuff like ships and... well... big stuff. lol
Hauling is the one thing i almost never did.
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Jinx Kaundur
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:42:00 -
[8]
I too, am selling freighters.
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.07.13 20:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: oulley spy
Well I can fly one but should i freighter npc goods or minerals or big stuff like ships and... well... big stuff. lol
Hauling is the one thing i almost never did.
Freighter waffles!
However try to have less than 1.5 billion waffles (depending on your freighter) at any given time inside it, especially if autopiloting/not paying attention.
Else someone may blow their syrup all over them.
But really, what I want to say is that "No non vanity MT's" is the only line worth defending. |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
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Posted - 2011.07.13 20:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jinx Kaundur
I too, am selling freighters.
<< Me too 
Ok, serious answer. Firstly disregard the freighter talk, it's a reference to a common issue that comes up - people think that a freighter is the magical path to riches, buy one then ask here to find what to do with it. In reality you'll know when you need one, and furthermore you can get stinking rich without a freighter, without even leaving the station. But if you need one, I'll sell you one. Or two.
Right, trading. There are two main paths which are not mutually exclusive.
Path 1 is arbitrage. That is find something cheap in one region, sell it expensive in another region. Either transport yourself or pay someone else to do so through courier contracts or Red Frog Freight etc. Put an alt in Rens/Jita/Amarr/Dodixie, go through the market look for stuff that's cheaper in one region than another.
Path 2 is flipping, or station trading. You'll notice that for every item on the market there are buy orders for less than the sell orders. Calculate the spread - that is the difference between the two. If the difference is (eg) 5% put up a buy order for an item, when it fills relist the stock as a sell order. The key to this is to diversify, ie. put a small amount in a lot of different items, and be aware of the trend - ie. look at the graphs, is there a general upward or downward trend, are there any reasons for those trends (patch notes?); you don't want to be holding on to stock for long, especially if there is a downward trend. With practice and skills (both character and player) you can work with *much* smaller spreads than 5% and you'll get a feel for which items get sold to buy orders as regularly as bought from sell orders.
Path 3 (I said there were two paths, I lied) is speculation - think of a longer term trend, ie. I think waffles will be 50% higher in two week's time because of (a) syrup and (b) blueberries and therefore I'll buy at today's price and sell in a fortnight. The trick here is naturally to figure out the syrup and blueberries.
There are many other paths.
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oulley spy
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:20:00 -
[11]
Ty, much appreciated. Also , where would one see such graphs that indicate trends? I'm guessing there has to be a program/website that helps with these statistics.
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Tekota
The Freighter Factory
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: oulley spy
Also , where would one see such graphs that indicate trends?
 Err, click the Market button, then click the "Price History" tab. Hint: when looking at the market graph right click on it and select "hide donchian channel" and "hide min/max" if the graph for a given item looks particularly flat; way out outliers tend to skew the graphs otherwise.
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oulley spy
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:10:00 -
[13]
bumpy :p
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:20:00 -
[14]
If you want to want to work hard, find a secondary hub system, put lowball region wide orders and wait. This involved quite some hauling and et voila, there's your 30-100% markup.
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Coffe's Babe
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Coffe''s Babe on 15/07/2011 01:58:34
harass people until they sell their stuff cheaper
Smart people have quotes in their sig
- me |
oulley spy
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Posted - 2011.07.15 02:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: oulley spy on 15/07/2011 02:01:49
Originally by: clixor
If you want to want to work hard, find a secondary hub system, put lowball region wide orders and wait. This involved quite some hauling and et voila, there's your 30-100% markup.
What items would I be aiming for? What missioneers/miners dump or ships/other big stuff ppl might sell when desperate enough?
edit: spelling
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Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.15 03:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: oulley spy
Edited by: oulley spy on 15/07/2011 02:01:49
Originally by: clixor
If you want to want to work hard, find a secondary hub system, put lowball region wide orders and wait. This involved quite some hauling and et voila, there's your 30-100% markup.
What items would I be aiming for? What missioneers/miners dump or ships/other big stuff ppl might sell when desperate enough?
edit: spelling
Run a few missions and salvage what you find, that'll give you an idea of what items drop for those pirates.
Can't make it too easy on you.
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Tigerras's Audits and Third-Party Servicing |
Trinkets friend
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Posted - 2011.07.15 06:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tekota
Path 1 is arbitrage. That is find something cheap in one region, sell it expensive in another region.
No, arbitrage is far more complicated than simply buying low, hauling, selling high. Arbitrage would be the act of, say, finding a contract to buy an Archon for 1.2B in Derelik, and matching it with a contract to sell an Archon for 900M in Devoid, and matching the two up without ever having to touch the Archons yourself. Even using Red Frog Freight isn't pure arbitrage.
For a start, Arbitrage can't exist in EVE because of the basically fractured nature of the regional markets, and the fact that items are not tradeable between markets the same way they are in the real world. Eg, modern arbitrageurs play on fractions of percentages on currency markets by trading imbalances in exchange rate where, for example, the Yen/Euro, Pound/Euro and Pound/Yen ratios get thrown out of whack.
There is no situation in EVE where you can play arbitrage because, although the price of Trit may be different between Stain and The Forge, you would have to still transact in the commodity, move the commodity, and transact in the commodity again resulting in time-expense (hauling), opportunity cost (in time to haul), let alone the sales tax costs or contract costs, plus a massive layering of risk.
Originally by: Tekota
Path 2 is flipping, or station trading. -snip-
The pertinent skill for playing the market like this is, firstly, Accounting (aka tax avoidance). This can reduce your tax from 10%. The next skill, when you start edging into puts and calls territory as much as EVE is able to cover this, requires the Margin Trading skill. But remember that either way you can get burned.
Originally by: Tekota
Path 3 is speculation.
This is also known as getting your portfolio of investments nerfed by CCP when they try to rebalance their latest market rebalancing attempt (cf noxcium, mexallon crashes), and trying to anticipate the FOTM. That said, i made about 500M on guidance systems when PI came out based on analysis that a P3 item wouldn't stick at 100 ISK forever.
My perspective, as I pull in a good 1.2B a month from trading, is that nothing beats actually knowing your market. You may believe that trading cap 800's is the way to riches, and have trade alts, contracted hauls via Red Frog to shunt your stuff to the target market, etc, but if you don't understand who is buying and why they are willing to pay a premium, you won't make a single ISK cent.
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