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Issues with the move from Drake to Raven

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Kraven Stark	Posted - 2011.07.21 13:46:00 - [1] I am thinking this is an SP issue but I just wanted to get some feedback on this. I have been comfortably doing lvl 3's in my Drake for a while and decided to move over to the Raven. I have done some Gallente lvl 4's in the Drake with no problem as long as I avoid the more difficult ones. It's been somewhat slow, but more profitable than 3's. I recently moved to Caldari space doing Internal Security missions and the lvl 4's have been much tougher and time consuming in the Drake so I decided to give the Raven a shot. Big mistake. After the Raven got rolled in a very short amount of time I bailed, picked up the Drake to finish up and here I am. Looking at EFT the Raven has 10k less effective Shield and is right on par with the Drake in terms of DPS, but the Cruise missiles seem to be pretty useless unless I am firing on BSes. The T2 drones generally clear the Frigs pretty easy but the BCs become the annoying ones to kill. Any constructive advice would be welcome. If there is a way to post my skills easily, let me know and I will provide them. [Drake, Kraven Stark's Drake] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II [empty med slot] Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 [Raven, Kraven Stark's Raven import 3] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier I Shield Boost Amplifier I Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.21 13:54:00 - [2] Edited by: Drykor on 21/07/2011 13:56:16 Your setup looks fairly solid, though I'd go with a better named shield booster and an extra resist instead of the second SBA. But that won't explain your issues so I'm guessing they can be found in your skills. Do you have good missile support skills? Including the ones for improving damage against targets with a small signature and high speed? And how about your Caldari BS level? Also, don't expect a Raven to tank as well as a Drake (except when going all out faction) but you should be able to clear targets faster so you only have to pulse your booster. --- Drykor - AHARM
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2011.07.21 13:56:00 - [3] It's your skills. T1 launchers and missiles don't give you enough gank. T1 shield booster and boost amps don't give you enough tank. Also, without target painters, cruise missiles won't hit cruiser and BC's for anything near decent damage. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kraven Stark	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:07:00 - [4] I definitely went into this knowing the Raven tank was not going to be like the Drake tank, but I thought the DPS from cruise missiles would be a lot better than the Drake DPS, which isn't happening. My support skills are at IV and the CM skill is at III so I don't have access to the higher tier support skills yet. I figured this would be a skill issue. I'm just not really sure what to focus on first to make the Raven a better performer than the Drake.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:13:00 - [5] Edited by: Drykor on 21/07/2011 14:13:30 Originally by: Kraven Stark I definitely went into this knowing the Raven tank was not going to be like the Drake tank, but I thought the DPS from cruise missiles would be a lot better than the Drake DPS, which isn't happening. DPS from cruises is a lot better, so yeah it must be a skill issue or a piloting issue. Focus your missiles on the big damage dealers, let your drones deal with frigates and move down/up from there. You don't NEED a target painter for cruises in my opinion but it will help so you could drop the second SBA for a target painter too. Originally by: Kraven Stark My support skills are at IV and the CM skill is at III so I don't have access to the higher tier support skills yet. I figured this would be a skill issue. I'm just not really sure what to focus on first to make the Raven a better performer than the Drake. You could post your eveboard link. --- Drykor - AHARM
Hann Tuch	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:23:00 - [6] T1 CM vs T2 HM with fury ammo is no fair match, of course your CM will be worse, also u only have the skill at III and possibly miss support skills for your missiles (target navigation prediction V is a really nice skill with CM). you can do every mission with a nicely skilled+fitted drake, some of them better then with a raven (e.g. WC with all those nasty frigs)
Kraven Stark	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:35:00 - [7] Edited by: Kraven Stark on 21/07/2011 14:35:31 Originally by: Drykor DPS from cruises is a lot better, so yeah it must be a skill issue or a piloting issue. Focus your missiles on the big damage dealers, let your drones deal with frigates and move down/up from there. You don't NEED a target painter for cruises in my opinion but it will help so you could drop the second SBA for a target painter too. You could post your eveboard link. My DPS comparisons are mainly related to damage done to BSes. Here is my sheet: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Kraven_Stark
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:38:00 - [8] It's password protected. But anyway, work on your battleship level and support skills and the damage will climb quickly. --- Drykor - AHARM
Kraven Stark	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Drykor It's password protected. But anyway, work on your battleship level and support skills and the damage will climb quickly. It's fixed, but yeah, I need to get back on those.
Delucian	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:49:00 - [10] I would agree that it is a skills based issue. However, I had a similar problem when I made the shift to BS's. If you are comfortable with the Drake, TBH moving into a SNI is an easier shift. Mainly, because (for me) I got real used to the Drake's tank. Having to more actively manage the first Raven I had did not go well. The other issue you have is that you are trying to hit cruisers and BC's without riggor rigs with Cruise missiles. That does not work well. Looks like you are working hard to stay cap stable (feeding that shield booster)which is gimping your DPS due to no riggor rigs. As noted, you need a TP as well. Raven is a good ship, but takes more active management to run missions well. Riggors, TP and just cycle the booster as needed, do not perma-run the thing. Again, you will find the SNI easier if you really like tank.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:51:00 - [11] I did the same thing, tried to fly a Raven before I was ready. A lot of this is already mentioned if not all of it but the main points are: 3 CCC rigs = no thank you. If you don't have t2 and therefore precision cruise missiles, hitting small targets will take all day with no explosion radius bonus. Use faction ammo till you get t2 guns. TP is a must have. It helps missiles hit small ships. It also helps drones hit small ships while you are shooting big ships with your missiles. The sad fact of the matter is that by the time you are ready to fly a Raven, you are ready to fly a CNR. I found the same to be true of the Typhoon. I suggest continuing on with the Drake building its skills. When you have exemplary Drake skills start working on the Raven but keep flying the Drake in all l4's. By the time you are ready to lock and load you will have enough bank for a CNR and will be ready to CRUSH level 4's. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Reppyk	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:52:00 - [12] Guided Missile Precision lvl 0. That's your mistake... And you should up your social skills too (and calda BS4 !).
Delucian	Posted - 2011.07.21 14:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Delucian on 21/07/2011 15:00:09 Here is the SNI fit I am running - you will need to back modules down to what you have skills to use or can afford. This is a pretty heavy fit (122k EHP), 3800 DPS Volley, and can run the booster for just over a minute (if I absolutely have to - typically only in L4 missions). I use it reguarly for L4 missioning. Of what I have on this, I think the Republich Fleet TP is a must. This hits out to 135 KM and with my skils and th eDrone Link Aug, anthing small that gets within 50Km is toast. I have had good luck with it. [Scorpion Navy Issue, Dragoon] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Sensor Booster II Republic Fleet Target Painter Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Edit: Or what Cypher said!
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.21 15:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Kraven Stark Originally by: Drykor It's password protected. But anyway, work on your battleship level and support skills and the damage will climb quickly. It's fixed, but yeah, I need to get back on those. You're completely lacking guided missile precision, so there's your problem. Also get Caldari BS to at least level 3 asap for a big damage increase. --- Drykor - AHARM
Jose Black Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2011.07.21 15:07:00 - [15] As mentioned already Guided Missile precision is missing for decently hitting cruisers and battlecruisers. You shouldn't be piloting a BS until you have the ship and weapon skill at IV . In terms of tanking you're missing Shield Compensation entirely.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.21 15:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Jose Black In terms of tanking you're missing Shield Compensation entirely. Good catch. Kraven I also think you should plug in the advanced weapon upgrades skill since you meet the prereqs anyway. And getting the specific shield compensation skills (like em shield compensation) to level 2 would be helpful too if you ever find yourself capped out. --- Drykor - AHARM
Kraven Stark	Posted - 2011.07.21 15:46:00 - [17] This is awesome! Thanks for all the feedback!
Ryuce My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean	Posted - 2011.07.21 15:55:00 - [18] Edited by: Ryuce on 21/07/2011 15:56:47 Originally by: Drykor Originally by: Jose Black In terms of tanking you're missing Shield Compensation entirely. Good catch. Kraven I also think you should plug in the advanced weapon upgrades skill since you meet the prereqs anyway. And getting the specific shield compensation skills (like em shield compensation) to level 2 would be helpful too if you ever find yourself capped out. Considering he is using active hardners, why bother? E: he's got a lot more important skills to focus on right now.
Llambda Space Llama Industries	Posted - 2011.07.21 16:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Ryuce Considering he is using active hardners, why bother? They are talking about the shield compensation skill (reduces shield booster cap cost), not the resist compensation skills.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2011.07.21 16:40:00 - [20] Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 21/07/2011 16:40:24 Originally by: Kraven Stark [Raven, Kraven Stark's Raven import 3] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Friends don't let friends fit CFCs. Fit PDUs instead. Originally by: Kraven Stark X-Large Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier I Shield Boost Amplifier I Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II I usually put a LSBII, an AB, two shield hardeners and two resistance amplifiers in there (got EM/Kin/therm/exp shield compensation skills to 4 when still flying a passive drake. Quote: 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Faction launchers or tech 2, otherwise stick with your drake. Quote: Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Replace these with rigor rigs, and your cruise missiles will kill everything down to destroyer size just fine, and even be able to help mopping up frigates.
Fermi Tesla	Posted - 2011.07.21 16:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Llambda Originally by: Ryuce Considering he is using active hardners, why bother? They are talking about the shield compensation skill (reduces shield booster cap cost), not the resist compensation skills. Llambda is correct, one of them mentioned the resist compensations, but yes, the one for cap use is definitely needed
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.21 16:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Ryuce Edited by: Ryuce on 21/07/2011 15:56:47 Originally by: Drykor Originally by: Jose Black In terms of tanking you're missing Shield Compensation entirely. Good catch. Kraven I also think you should plug in the advanced weapon upgrades skill since you meet the prereqs anyway. And getting the specific shield compensation skills (like em shield compensation) to level 2 would be helpful too if you ever find yourself capped out. Considering he is using active hardners, why bother? E: he's got a lot more important skills to focus on right now. Well getting all 4 of them to level 2 takes a couple of hours at most and will help you in a tight spot when capped out after accidently running your booster for too long. --- Drykor - AHARM
jx3p	Posted - 2011.07.21 16:46:00 - [23] I had the same problems when i first made the switch to my Raven until i put 3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I rigs in and started to use cap boosters. Suddenly i am 2 or 3 shotting cruiser class NPC's and i can tank a ton more damage. This is the Liang Nuren raven fit, look it up.
Jak Silverheart Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.21 17:06:00 - [24] Definately a skills issue, your raven flying skills are subpar to say the least. Bring up your missile skills, and BS skills, and get a T2 tank. T2 everything pretty much, and it should be performing much better. But if your currently on par with your Drake in terms of DPS, jump into that the heavy missiles are superior in hitting small targets than the Cruise, so it should be quicker in that sense. Do that for now while you bring up your raven skills. And train up guided missile precision will ya. Before anyone here comments on this, remember he has Cruise III, and heavy missile V and HML spec II and is using T2 Fury missiles on his drake. Ohh and slap a AB in that spare mid slot on your drake build so you can get under their defender missile range and blast them from there, and fit a tractor beam, salvager, or even an auto targeter in that last high slot. Incarna, giving pilots a single room bachelor pad with a mirror and no beer since 6.21.2011
Kraven Stark	Posted - 2011.07.21 17:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Jak Silverheart Definately a skills issue, your raven flying skills are subpar to say the least. Bring up your missile skills, and BS skills, and get a T2 tank. T2 everything pretty much, and it should be performing much better. But if your currently on par with your Drake in terms of DPS, jump into that the heavy missiles are superior in hitting small targets than the Cruise, so it should be quicker in that sense. Do that for now while you bring up your raven skills. And train up guided missile precision will ya. Before anyone here comments on this, remember he has Cruise III, and heavy missile V and HML spec II and is using T2 Fury missiles on his drake. Ohh and slap a AB in that spare mid slot on your drake build so you can get under their defender missile range and blast them from there, and fit a tractor beam, salvager, or even an auto targeter in that last high slot. I'm working on Engineering so I can use that last mid slot. Right now I am maxed on both CPU and PG.
lordlulzs	Posted - 2011.07.22 01:58:00 - [26] The issue is that your moving into a raven. The fix is to move from a drake to a tengu.
Wardeneo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.22 11:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Ultim8Evil It's your skills. T1 launchers and missiles don't give you enough gank. T1 shield booster and boost amps don't give you enough tank. Also, without target painters, cruise missiles won't hit cruiser and BC's for anything near decent damage. +1 ... N why dont u use a cnr like most ppl lol.... ... . - Wardeneo - - Elite Forum Ninja -
Nero Maxvell	Posted - 2011.07.22 12:10:00 - [28] If you are tight on powergrid and CPU, how about engineering 5 and electronics 5?
Kulsto Ribro	Posted - 2011.07.22 14:01:00 - [29] +1 ... N why dont u use a cnr like most ppl lol.... ... Because it's a terrible idea with these skills ?
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2011.07.22 16:56:00 - [30] Liang Raven (3rd one down) You could try this one - although I would say that the target painter is all but redundant with the rigs - an extra hardener would probably be better and a four hardener set-up should give you enough tank to ditch the DCII, which would in turn allow you a cargo expander (more space for booster charges) and free up CPU to perhaps add a salvager. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.

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