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Bart Starr
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:24:00 -
[1]
Dust and WoD. Paraphrasing Rush Limbaugh, "I hope they fail."
Why? These projects are a major mistake. A negligent allocation of resources - that has completely undermined the EVE development process. And EVEN if they are marginally successful, as a PC gamer, they represent a completely undesirable change in focus towards console platforms.
I actually want to CCP get its fingers burned, so they can get back to EVE, ASAP. When Dust arrives, you can bet I'll do my best to discourage people from wasting their time and/or money on it.
So, fast forward a year or two. These new products released with little marketing or fanfare, promptly crash and burn in the marketplace. Console gamers are mystified as to why they should play a technologically inferior game on an aging platform, simply because it is somehow tied into some strange computer game they've never heard of - and don't appreciate.
Then what?
A) After a major shakeup in corporate management, CCP is financially sound enough to return to providing an excellent niche product.
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued. CCP goes Chapter 7 and its assets are liquidated.
Personally, I hope for A) these failures can provide a much needed lesson in humility for the devs, who seem to somehow think they are capable of more than providing a space-based MMORPG. 
Sadly, based on the need to shoehorn MT into EVE, it is looking more like CCP has 'bet the farm' on its new projects, and Dust/WoD have a very real chance of dragging EVE to the icy bottom of the Atlantic. Tragic, really. 
What do others think?
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EvEa Deva
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:27:00 -
[2]
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
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GusHobbleton
Minmatar
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:28:00 -
[3]
Well, like every other MMO that failed, it will go Free2Play and get bought by Coreans.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
As long as they carry giant blaster rifles, everything is fine.
-
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Jak Silverheart
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
We would also get the Jove as a playable race, though you could probably trace their origins back to dark elfs thanks to blizzard. On the plus side though they probably give us a usable walk in station.
Incarna, giving pilots a single room bachelor pad with a mirror and no beer since 6.21.2011 |
centurion zulu
Phantom Squad
Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: centurion zulu on 26/07/2011 23:35:09
Originally by: Bart Starr
Dust and WoD. Paraphrasing Rush Limbaugh, "I hope they fail."
Why? These projects are a major mistake. A negligent allocation of resources - that has completely undermined the EVE development process. And EVEN if they are marginally successful, as a PC gamer, they represent a completely undesirable change in focus towards console platforms.
I actually want to CCP get its fingers burned, so they can get back to EVE, ASAP. When Dust arrives, you can bet I'll do my best to discourage people from wasting their time and/or money on it.
So, fast forward a year or two. These new products released with little marketing or fanfare, promptly crash and burn in the marketplace. Console gamers are mystified as to why they should play a technologically inferior game on an aging platform, simply because it is somehow tied into some strange computer game they've never heard of - and don't appreciate.
Then what?
A) After a major shakeup in corporate management, CCP is financially sound enough to return to providing an excellent niche product.
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued. CCP goes Chapter 7 and its assets are liquidated.
Personally, I hope for A) these failures can provide a much needed lesson in humility for the devs, who seem to somehow think they are capable of more than providing a space-based MMORPG.
Sadly, based on the need to shoehorn MT into EVE, it is looking more like CCP has 'bet the farm' on its new projects, and Dust/WoD have a very real chance of dragging EVE to the icy bottom of the Atlantic. Tragic, really.
What do others think?
Chapter 7...........in Iceland ? ROFL
Everything else sounds good though.
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Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: GusHobbleton
Well, like every other MMO that failed, it will go Free2Play and get bought by Coreans.
DUST is being built as F2P from the get go
But since this is a new thing for a console game they still need to charge you a bit to get it out of a physical store so they reimburse you the in-store cost with some AURUM type currency.
I've also heard CCP has a deal with Sony to port over to PS4 seamlessly (relatively) so that ppl can upgrade and keep playing (which im sure would have been an issue pulling off the same thing with Microsoft). I don't have an offhand source on that so I'm sure you'll all call bull**** on it but being stuck to a single console even after the new one is out isn't a new issue.
What I'm hopeful for is that the reverse is true, CCP farms the "console kiddies" to help develop EVE.....
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie |
Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:35:00 -
[8]
Then what? You come spiraling out of your dream world and realize that every game company that has ever existed has spent money from other games to build new ones.
I know this may be a complicated concept, but give it time.
I have slightly high hopes for Dust and the ability to interact with these players via my game.
WoD on the other hand, sort of neutral. Not a huge fan of vampires, as I like Space a lot more.
But, redundant thread is redundant.
Fly safe, Die hard |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
As long as they carry giant blaster rifles, everything is fine.
As long as they make the blasters actually good, everything is fine.
---
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GusHobbleton
Minmatar
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.26 23:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xercodo
Originally by: GusHobbleton
Well, like every other MMO that failed, it will go Free2Play and get bought by Coreans.
DUST is being built as F2P from the get go
I meant eve m8y
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
No Option
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.07.27 00:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
As long as it isn't SOE.
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.07.27 00:06:00 -
[12]
If DUST and WoD crash and burn, Eve follows. It's not like CCP will write off the millions of dollars and years of work they sunk into those games as just a costly learning experience. We should be cheering for the success of both, since success in DUST and WoD means more money to develop Eve.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.07.27 00:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
Yay for sporks, univeral utensil/soldier.
Delenda est achura. |
Nth Ares
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Posted - 2011.07.27 00:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
Could be interesting, if disposable. CCP could stop wasting resources reinventing the wheel, and focus on generating new content.
So then we have a ready-made engine for walking in stations, perhaps even zones on planets, that supports walking, vehicles, and flying (WoW). A system for simultaneously harvesting resources and fighting battles on planet surfaces (Starcraft). An easy-to-use marketplace system that already has a working mobile app (again WoW). A conceptual framework for spawning large numbers of randomized NPC monsters and huge, frenzied battles (Diablo -> Incursions?)
Also maybe we can get a wormhole to the Koprulu Sector. I want to see how our EVE ships fare against a Protoss armada or the Zerg Swarm.
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Bart Starr
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Posted - 2011.07.27 00:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
If DUST and WoD crash and burn, Eve follows. It's not like CCP will write off the millions of dollars and years of work they sunk into those games as just a costly learning experience. We should be cheering for the success of both, since success in DUST and WoD means more money to develop Eve.
In my view, success in Dust and WoD means more money for more stupid console projects and we end up with CCP's pale attempt to emulate Bungie.
Except its 10 years later, on an aging, also-ran console - without the talent of and resources of Bungie (a company which back in the 90's had extensive FPS experience which also produced a number of other successful games in other genres).
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Brep
Gallente
Into The Pink
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Posted - 2011.07.27 00:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
Yay for sporks, univeral utensil/soldier.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
As long as they carry giant blaster rifles, everything is fine.
As long as they make the blasters actually good, everything is fine.
a) l2p
b) I'm talking mobile blaster rifles carried by humanoids, not those fitted on ships
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bart Starr
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued.
Ahh, Total Annihilation, my first love.
Thread derailment: Core or Arm?
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Postrem Inkunen
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
As long as it isn't SOE.
In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised.
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Written Word
Written Word's Tax Haven
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:21:00 -
[20]
I like Dust, Its been on its own separate team that's using the Unreal engine and its not eating resources or forcing beta tests of its code on EVE. It also can add a lot of cool depth into EVE online
World of Darkness Twilight Online however... all the EVE's development has been effectively stopped for this. Nothing major will happen in EVE unless its affects the sparkle queens and to make that bitter pill even worse, we are forced to beta test this garbage and do all the Q&A for it.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.27 01:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
If DUST and WoD crash and burn, Eve follows. It's not like CCP will write off the millions of dollars and years of work they sunk into those games as just a costly learning experience. We should be cheering for the success of both, since success in DUST and WoD means more money to develop Eve.
Honest question: why does the success of those other titles mean more money directed towards EVE development?
Is that part of CCP's long-term business plan that we'd all like to read? Has CCP publicly stated that they are going to re-direct revenue from those IPs into EVE development?
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Jonas Xiamon
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.27 02:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Bart Starr
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued.
Ahh, Total Annihilation, my first love.
Thread derailment: Core or Arm?
Arm, peewee all the way!
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Kais N'ktal
Caldari
Ordos Humanitas
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.07.27 02:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Bart Starr
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued.
Ahh, Total Annihilation, my first love.
Thread derailment: Core or Arm?
Arm represent!
- Kais |
Dolm De'Mourne
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Posted - 2011.07.27 02:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
If DUST and WoD crash and burn, Eve follows. It's not like CCP will write off the millions of dollars and years of work they sunk into those games as just a costly learning experience. We should be cheering for the success of both, since success in DUST and WoD means more money to develop Eve.
Honest question: why does the success of those other titles mean more money directed towards EVE development?
Is that part of CCP's long-term business plan that we'd all like to read? Has CCP publicly stated that they are going to re-direct revenue from those IPs into EVE development?
Even if WOD revenue does not directly contribute to EVE, having it's dev budget come from it's own revenue would free up the revenue currently coming from EVE subs. If WoD fails, then obviously this will not be the case. If both WoD and Dust fail, then CCP would most likely start trying to create another project to bring in more revenue. And guess where the funds for it will come from.
I'll agree that Incarna is lackluster and concede that WoD/Dust development focus may have significantly contributed to that, but those projects failing seems like an even greater no win situation for us.
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Tsukimaru
Amarr
Stargate SG-1
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.27 02:30:00 -
[25]
Hey, shuddup foo. I've been dreaming of a VtM MMO since I played Bloodlines.
I hope WoD rocks socks!
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Bart Starr
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Posted - 2011.07.27 02:56:00 -
[26]
Yeah, ARM here as well. Flash tanks FTW. Gotta love a game that takes 5 years for the hardware to catch up. Supreme Commander was a case of close-but-not-quite, pretty, but didn't quite have economy issues worked out.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
No Option
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Postrem Inkunen
Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: EvEa Deva
Then blizzard buys CCP and we get space orcs
As long as it isn't SOE.
In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised.
In all seriousness...the sale is coming...it's just a matter of who. Most of the actions taken by CCP/WW the last 6-12 months indicate a company organizing itself for sale.
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:42:00 -
[28]
Reasons why WoD might be a stellar game.
jenette
Pisha
If ccp does a halfway decent job of putting the dark story line into WoD as described in the many many manuals written by White Wolf. Holy crap we are looking at a game that will be darker and just as bloody as eve.
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:43:00 -
[29]
I hope that Dust does well enough to warrant mild development (I like the idea, sounds fun).
I hope WoD does just well enough that CCP realizes they made a mistake and should work on EVE more without them going under (sorry folks, I'm biased against the undead other than the original).
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Solosky
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:53:00 -
[30]
LotRO went f2p a year ago. Guess what? Overcrowded by new and returned players (include me), tons of new content (Isengard update in September). Game's future seems to be bright.
As EVE player I'm interesting in Dust and WoD fail asap and either CCP re-focused on EVE again or sell it to someone who knows how to handle successful MMOs instead of wasting money on someone's vampire-related ambitions.
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Aprie
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:56:00 -
[31]
+1
DUST is not made to attract present EVE players. Non-EVE players won't care enough to play it.
CCP has a history of undermarketing EVE. Bet they do the same with DUST and WoD.
CCP has had a history of underdevelopment, early release of mechanics that aren't ready simply to garner support (CQ cough) and/or overplaying the quality of what you actually get with "glorious" cinematics.
Console gamers will not care about hooking up with EVE players.
Best bet is CCP lets Microsoft buy them out for continued development a la Bungie post Myth II and during Halo development.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:59:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 27/07/2011 04:00:40
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Bart Starr
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued.
Ahh, Total Annihilation, my first love.
Thread derailment: Core or Arm?
Core had some pretty bad ass tanks, and the Krogoth of course, but Arm all the way!
I've been meaning to replay TA for a long time. I haven't even touched the Spring project either.
I'm not an alt |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.27 04:11:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Sadly, based on the need to shoehorn MT into EVE, it is looking more like CCP has 'bet the farm' on its new projects, and Dust/WoD have a very real chance of dragging EVE to the icy bottom of the Atlantic. Tragic, really.
Its a good thing they didnt bet the farm on eve huh?
Oh wait they did and it was successful... oh yeah forgot about that. Carry on.
.
Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Written Word
Written Word's Tax Haven
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Posted - 2011.07.27 04:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Aprie
Console gamers will not care about hooking up with EVE players.
You know, while the "PC gaming master race" stereotype may be fun, its not true.
You'll find a lot of players that do play EVE can enjoy shooters on consoles (for example, I like shooters on both the PC and consoles) and there will be plenty of shooter fans would love a sci-fi style shooter that playing means something more than gun unlocks and perks.
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Potato IQ
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Posted - 2011.07.27 07:57:00 -
[35]
Wanting these project to fail is quite childish. ÇÇP have to diversify to survive long term as Eve as a standalone project is not enough
Dust is a clever concept if the marry with Eve works, but more importantly, they must get the multi-player element right. This keeps longevity in an FPS game and itÆs what keeps friends I know playing a title as new releases fall by the wayside rather quickly once the single player element is complete
WoD will have the mass appeal that Eve cannot compete with. To ignore this because you donÆt like it is simply stupid. It has the potential to become the cash cow for the company. It then means time and money freed up for itÆs first born and favourite child Eve
If these both fail, Eve will likely fail. If it moves to another company, they are going to f*ck it up far worse that what we are seeing now. Better the devil you know and give them time to get their act together. After all, there is nothing else out there that competes
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Aubrey Addams
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Posted - 2011.07.27 09:29:00 -
[36]
Dust will fail, simply because it won't be able to compete with other fps-s from the market today.
WoD may not fail, but looking at the poor gameplay design abilities that CCP have, and looking on those lots of MMOs that failed nowdays, I hardly imagine that WoD will be succesful enough. Plus count with Blizzard's new MMO arriving in 2014.
Someone said that CCP should make new games, because EVE don't make as much profit, but the truth is, that EVE is not so succesful, only some thousand people playing it, and it is not beacuse other peoples doesn't like space games, but it's because of the lack of game design. If they concentrate in EVE to make it a playable and ejoyable game, they can easily reach 2 million subscribers, and then they could think on new projects.
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Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.07.27 09:35:00 -
[37]
I hoped that Dust would be a valid addition to EVE but I am not convinced even CCP knows how they'll merge the two games.
But lets remain hopefull, the quests stands on a knife-edge, stray but a little and CCP will fail tot he ruin of us all...
-
Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.
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Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
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Posted - 2011.07.27 09:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Bart Starr
Why? These projects are a major mistake. A negligent allocation of resources - that has completely undermined the EVE development process. And EVEN if they are marginally successful, as a PC gamer, they represent a completely undesirable change in focus towards console platforms.
Anyone who can read between the lines will find out that Dust will eventually be part of the eve client. Hence why a game named Dust 514 won't be released on PC. Of course, CCP will stay silent on this for now, as it would hurt the success of the PS3 Dust.
So, while I'll agree with you that the past few years for Eve have been too poor in exploitable, usefull content (too much gadget things, not enough new things to use in daily isk-grinding or pvp), hoping for a Dust failure is foolish...
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Elyssa Polaris
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Posted - 2011.07.27 09:59:00 -
[39]
OP is a foolish child. If both projects were to bomb as badly as you hope. CCP would be finished. If you think CCP is neglecting the game now, wait and see how it is when theres only 2 devs for the entire game.
Its clear that the OP and people supporting him have never had to take hard decisions or responsibility for much in the real world.
Take a look at the current economic picture worldwide then tell me if you really believe CCP are doing such a bad job? Many of you seem to live in a fantasy land- or have never held down a real job in the private sector - just totally clueless.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.27 10:07:00 -
[40]
<----- hopes the OP leaves Eve, earns wisdom in the real world, and returns a better man.
I'm personally very excited for Dust and WoD, and I hope both become wildly successful. For their own sake, and for the sake of Eve and CCP's future.
______________________
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)"
(The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) |
Xterea
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Posted - 2011.07.27 10:11:00 -
[41]
The Dust 514 idea is very good in the long term.
You see, making the game a PS3 exclusive opens up a higher security for CCP to test and attempt to implement an entirely new concept for a game. They do not need to worry about hardware issues either. Once Dust 514 is at a state of being a finished product, we can expect to see it be made for both the Xbox 360, and then the PC.
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2011.07.27 10:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jon Taggart
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 27/07/2011 04:00:40
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Bart Starr
B) Late 90's Cavedog scenario: Successful innovative small company destroyed by marketplace failure of their attempt to follow up on their initial success, and support for earlier products is discontinued.
Ahh, Total Annihilation, my first love.
Thread derailment: Core or Arm?
Core had some pretty bad ass tanks, and the Krogoth of course, but Arm all the way!
I've been meaning to replay TA for a long time. I haven't even touched the Spring project either.
Yeah, but the Core aircraft were rubbish.
Arm Brawler gunships were far better than the Core Rapiers.
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Obviously Confidential
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Posted - 2011.07.27 10:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Then what? You come spiraling out of your dream world and realize that every game company that has ever existed has spent money from other games to build new ones.
Posting to confirm all games are developed using money from other games in a recursive never ending process that started with Adventure back in the 60's.
Let's look at the game that inspired CCP Soundwave's thoughts on item shops...
Riot Games is an independent video game developer and publisher based in Santa Monica, California. Established in 2006, Riot Games launched its first title in October 2009, the multiplayer online battle arena League of Legends. Some of their notable employees include Steve "Guinsoo" Feak, a former developer of the Warcraft 3 custom map Defense of the Ancients; and Steve "Pendragon" Mescon, who created the Defense of the Ancients community website DotA-Allstars.com. Riot Games also employs several former Blizzard developers, including Shawn Carnes and Tom Cadwell. In early 2011, the Chinese company Tencent Holdings bought a majority stake in Riot Games. Riot Games will maintain independent operations and its existing management team.
As of today, 15 million people have registered to become League of Legends players. Each month, over 4 million people log in to play. And on each day, 1.4 million summoners play League of Legends together.
When we're at our busiest, over 500,000 people in North America and Europe are in game at the same time. On average, more than 10 games of League of Legends start every second of every day. As we expand into Asia and abroad, the possibilities around live, global events makes the game enthusiast in all of us shake with excitement.
The phenomenal growth that we have experienced this year has not just been limited to the playerbase. Riot Games itself is now more than five times the size it was when we released League of Legends back in October of 2009, weighing in at more than 300 employees in four different cities across three continents. And we're actively hiring more people now than we ever have before!
DISCLAIMER: no milking of EVE Online was used to produce League of Legends
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