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[Proposal] Exploding ships do damage.

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Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 14:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 02/08/2011 14:30:37 This is something that has been brought up before...by myself even but I cannot seem to find the threads. Don't care to either way. This is a new thread. Simply put...a ship blows up then it should deal damage to every other ship around it within proximity. Proximity or radius of the blast from the exploding ship should be determined by the size of the ship itself. Obviously the larger the ship the bigger the explosion radius. The math for the explosion can work exactly like missiles or smartbombs. Oh...and yes...the bigger the ship the bigger the damage. I think a titan exploding should do significant damage to a battleship within close enough range. Maybe enough to even destroy a battleship that is too close. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.08.02 14:49:00 - [2] It's an interesting idea, but won't work given the AOE mechanics of EVE. If you get concorded for using smartbombs in highsec, then what happens if you self destruct in front of Jita with a battleship? It has too many ways to be abused. But if you can think of a way to get around these obvious abuses, go continue.
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 14:57:00 - [3] The simplest answer would be to not self destruct in front of Jita or at any station if you don't want to be CONCORDED. However...if your ship self destructs then what is CONCORD gonna do? You are in a pod. You may have a 15 minute timer but you are in a pod. I guess the REAL problem would be people using this mechanic to destroy other ships undocking then then subsequently looting them. So I see a valid problem there. So...simple fix...disable self destruct within a specific range of stations and gates. Lets say 250km. Now it can be used as a valid griefing tactic in the middle of nothing. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.02 15:14:00 - [4] Edited by: E man Industries on 02/08/2011 15:15:30 Supported..but 1. Damge should not be done on self destruct. 2. Damage and damge radius based on hull size 3. Damage inflicted takes into acount signature radius of ship being affected.(frigs take less dmg) 4. Damage is not huge. No doing this in jita would NOT be more effective than fitting 8 smartbombs on your battleship... Damage done needs to be less on frigates and tackle or will be to harsh on them in larger fleets. This is why DD's changed and look how much more varience sub cap fleets have now. So damage needs to take into acount the sigradius of the ship getting hit. Damage should nto be large, at most a few smart bomb pulses worth. Think this would be great and help seperate the blob. Would make fleets act more as individual wings than one giant blob(this will not make fleets smaller..just mroe intresting. think this would add a lot of fun to the game... supported. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Lady Spank Amarr In Praise Of Shadows	Posted - 2011.08.02 15:49:00 - [5] I think this is a brilliant idea. By manoeuvring in-corp alts next to haulers / cov-ops / pods and blowing them up, I can scoop up the wrecks of the nearby ships affected by my splash damage all with no security hits. ~~~
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 15:50:00 - [6] Originally by: E man Industries Edited by: E man Industries on 02/08/2011 15:15:30 Supported..but 1. Damge should not be done on self destruct. 2. Damage and damge radius based on hull size 3. Damage inflicted takes into acount signature radius of ship being affected.(frigs take less dmg) 4. Damage is not huge. No doing this in jita would NOT be more effective than fitting 8 smartbombs on your battleship... Damage done needs to be less on frigates and tackle or will be to harsh on them in larger fleets. This is why DD's changed and look how much more varience sub cap fleets have now. So damage needs to take into acount the sigradius of the ship getting hit. Damage should nto be large, at most a few smart bomb pulses worth. Think this would be great and help seperate the blob. Would make fleets act more as individual wings than one giant blob(this will not make fleets smaller..just mroe intresting. think this would add a lot of fun to the game... supported. Damage needs to be large enough so as to make it worth it. The whole point is to separate fleets out a bit. Change up the composition of fleets a little as well. If the damage is not high enough then players will just counter it with more Logi. There is no reason why damage should not be done on self destruct. If not then people will just self destruct larger ships just to avoid the damage they might do to friendlies. My previous post already corrects the issue in Jita or any gate/station for that matter. And I have already stated that damage should work like missiles and smartbombs so that takes care of number 3. And as stated...yes...damage is based on the size of the ship. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 15:56:00 - [7] Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 02/08/2011 15:58:10 Originally by: Lady Spank I think this is a brilliant idea. By manoeuvring in-corp alts next to haulers / cov-ops / pods and blowing them up, I can scoop up the wrecks of the nearby ships affected by my splash damage all with no security hits. However you feel like exploiting the system is entirely up to you. That is the glory of EvE. However if it makes you feel any better you can simply make it so that self destructing causes you to take a security hit if you damage somebody else. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises	Posted - 2011.08.02 16:09:00 - [8] I would get all my alts together in Jita, undock them together, then set them all on self destruct. It would be glorious. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 16:46:00 - [9] Try reading the thread before you post. I will say it again...change self destruct so it cannot be done within 250KM of a gate or station. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Lady Spank Amarr In Praise Of Shadows	Posted - 2011.08.02 17:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 02/08/2011 15:58:10 Originally by: Lady Spank I think this is a brilliant idea. By manoeuvring in-corp alts next to haulers / cov-ops / pods and blowing them up, I can scoop up the wrecks of the nearby ships affected by my splash damage all with no security hits. However you feel like exploiting the system is entirely up to you. That is the glory of EvE. However if it makes you feel any better you can simply make it so that self destructing causes you to take a security hit if you damage somebody else. That's all very well but still needs refinement since it's going to lead to all sorts of opportunities to deliberately lower someone's security status simply because their ship was destroyed. I'm not smacking here, just covering the issues I see with the proposal. I remember the hilarity of splash damage and people even managing to pod themselves with their own splash damage from their last volleys as their ship exploded ~~~
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.02 17:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Originally by: E man Industries Edited by: E man Industries on 02/08/2011 15:15:30 Supported..but 1. Damge should not be done on self destruct. 2. Damage and damge radius based on hull size 3. Damage inflicted takes into acount signature radius of ship being affected.(frigs take less dmg) 4. Damage is not huge. No doing this in jita would NOT be more effective than fitting 8 smartbombs on your battleship... Damage done needs to be less on frigates and tackle or will be to harsh on them in larger fleets. This is why DD's changed and look how much more varience sub cap fleets have now. So damage needs to take into acount the sigradius of the ship getting hit. Damage should nto be large, at most a few smart bomb pulses worth. Think this would be great and help seperate the blob. Would make fleets act more as individual wings than one giant blob(this will not make fleets smaller..just mroe intresting. think this would add a lot of fun to the game... supported. Damage needs to be large enough so as to make it worth it. The whole point is to separate fleets out a bit. Change up the composition of fleets a little as well. If the damage is not high enough then players will just counter it with more Logi. There is no reason why damage should not be done on self destruct. If not then people will just self destruct larger ships just to avoid the damage they might do to friendlies. My previous post already corrects the issue in Jita or any gate/station for that matter. And I have already stated that damage should work like missiles and smartbombs so that takes care of number 3. And as stated...yes...damage is based on the size of the ship. The amount of damage done is very important aspect of this proposed change and needs to be carefully balanced. We want to encourage ships to spread out and yet do not want to overly penalize smaller ships or introduce grief tactics while introducing a fun and interesting mechanic. Too much damage and exploding ships would become a negative feature prone to abuse. It could also negatively affect the variety of ships in a fleet. Also it could be unduly harsh on close range set ups, tacklers, drones, or other close range ships. The damage should be small and really small for small ships. We donÆt want an exploding battle ship to wipe the field of tackle or drones. Thus the damage reduction for being small sig radius should be huge. A battle ship should take more damage. The additional damage done should not kill a battleship in a fleet fight. At most it damage them slightly and makes logi pilots work a bit harder. This additional damage may be small but it is on multiple ships. Spreading out will make your logi pilots happier. We also do not want to have fleets never bunch up, we want it to be a tactical choice. ôI bunch up because I want all my fleet at the same range to primary and to be aligned to what I say and that is worth the penalty of aoe explody shipsö is a much better option than never bunching up. Also a small damage amount is not detrimental to the game and can be modified later. A high damage amount can be detrimental to game balance and fun. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 17:40:00 - [12] Originally by: E man Industries Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Originally by: E man Industries Edited by: E man Industries on 02/08/2011 15:15:30 Supported..but 1. Damge should not be done on self destruct. 2. Damage and damge radius based on hull size 3. Damage inflicted takes into acount signature radius of ship being affected.(frigs take less dmg) 4. Damage is not huge. No doing this in jita would NOT be more effective than fitting 8 smartbombs on your battleship... Damage done needs to be less on frigates and tackle or will be to harsh on them in larger fleets. This is why DD's changed and look how much more varience sub cap fleets have now. So damage needs to take into acount the sigradius of the ship getting hit. Damage should nto be large, at most a few smart bomb pulses worth. Think this would be great and help seperate the blob. Would make fleets act more as individual wings than one giant blob(this will not make fleets smaller..just mroe intresting. think this would add a lot of fun to the game... supported. Damage needs to be large enough so as to make it worth it. The whole point is to separate fleets out a bit. Change up the composition of fleets a little as well. If the damage is not high enough then players will just counter it with more Logi. There is no reason why damage should not be done on self destruct. If not then people will just self destruct larger ships just to avoid the damage they might do to friendlies. My previous post already corrects the issue in Jita or any gate/station for that matter. And I have already stated that damage should work like missiles and smartbombs so that takes care of number 3. And as stated...yes...damage is based on the size of the ship. The amount of damage done is very important aspect of this proposed change and needs to be carefully balanced. We want to encourage ships to spread out and yet do not want to overly penalize smaller ships or introduce grief tactics while introducing a fun and interesting mechanic. Too much damage and exploding ships would become a negative feature prone to abuse. It could also negatively affect the variety of ships in a fleet. Also it could be unduly harsh on close range set ups, tacklers, drones, or other close range ships. The damage should be small and really small for small ships. We donÆt want an exploding battle ship to wipe the field of tackle or drones. Thus the damage reduction for being small sig radius should be huge. A battle ship should take more damage. The additional damage done should not kill a battleship in a fleet fight. At most it damage them slightly and makes logi pilots work a bit harder. This additional damage may be small but it is on multiple ships. Spreading out will make your logi pilots happier. We also do not want to have fleets never bunch up, we want it to be a tactical choice. ôI bunch up because I want all my fleet at the same range to primary and to be aligned to what I say and that is worth the penalty of aoe explody shipsö is a much better option than never bunching up. Also a small damage amount is not detrimental to the game and can be modified later. A high damage amount can be detrimental to game balance and fun. Again...make the damage work just like missiles and smartbombs do. Smaller the ship and the faster ships are moving the less damage is done. The bigger the ship and the slower it is moving the more damage that is done. Drones being as small as they are will take damage depending on the size of said exploding ship. I guess this would simply act as a smartbomb that goes off when the ship dies but the smartbomb damage is based on the ship size itself. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.02 17:54:00 - [13] Edited by: E man Industries on 02/08/2011 17:54:58 Yup To be clear I think this is a great idea that would add a lot to the game.People worried about griefers and such are imagining mass amounts of dmg and epic chain reactions that simply would not happen if this is balanced to any degree. This would be a fun addition that would make eve more intresting and fun to play. And really that is what it is all about. I also believe it would be easy to implement using current smart bomb coding. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.02 18:12:00 - [14] Balancing is an issue that can be left up to CCP though. No reason we should be doing that kind of leg work. Especially when we don't usually have all the facts in that regard. But yeah...the original idea was to get fleets to move around a bit more and stop being so blobbed together. Also the idea itself just makes sense from a realistic perspective. Ship explodes...it does damage. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Shaera Taam Minmatar Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2011.08.02 18:21:00 - [15] hey, i like it, and i fly the small stuff! Originally by: E man Industries I also believe it would be easy to implement using current smart bomb coding. similar to what i was thinking! __________________________________________________ Gravity: It's not just a good idea, it's the law!" --Adam Savage, Mythbusters
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2011.08.02 20:57:00 - [16] Whoa, deja vu! This exact same topic is on the front page of F&I. Link 1) Self Destruct should most certainly make an explosion. Who the hell would design a "make my ship explode" system that helps make sure your ship -just barely- explodes? Take Star Trek lore for instance. When they self destruct, the ship is perfectly content until the very end. At which point, the warp core flushes all the contents at once, causing a catastrophic matter/antimatter explosion. Not a piddly firecracker in space. Self Destruct is about denying the enemy of your ship and equipment. 2) Accredit anything destroyed, and anything destroyed by the resulting explosions, to the original trigger. That's not to say a single self destructing BS in Jita will get 500 KMs. But their standings loss will reflect 500 kills in High Sec. 2.5) On second thought, just don't hand out KMs for anything destroyed by an exploding ship. If you didn't land an actual killing shot, you don't get credit.
Marchmain Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.06 12:17:00 - [17] Bumping because I love this idea.
Lance Stratos	Posted - 2011.08.06 19:32:00 - [18] i like this idea. however i would make it so the ship size changed damage done. frigs and destroyers = small smartbomb t2 cruisers/bc = medium t2 battleships = large t2 Caps = 7k range (1000 damage) supers 10km range 1500 damage with racial damage: Caldari/kin, amarr/em....
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.08.07 00:24:00 - [19] What about the problem with people blowing up in front if Jita? No not self destructing, just blowing up. Will the damage from any exploding ship be zero within the 250km radius of a station or gate? Thus may fix the griefing problem, but then what is the legitimate use of this mechanic? Only in deadspace complex or cosmic sites? I would add the following tweak that solves the exploding ship chain reaction exploit: have ship explosions deal only crew damage. Not regular ship hp damage. This in conjunction with my recent crew as a necessity proposal, will result in exploding ship damage harm the battle effectiveness of your ship, but not cause it to explode, avoiding the concord and chain reaction problem.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.08.07 01:05:00 - [20] I'll support this discussion going on. Looks like with a couple of kinks to work out, but some potential here. Some made easier with crew. Return the favor and consider the crew proposal, adding a new ( but simple ) damage dimension can solve many game balance issues. Crew
Vice Admiral Spreadsheet Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.07 01:31:00 - [21] The simplest solution to exploding ships outside Jita is that in highsec, there is actually no AOE damage radius. However, this will be yet another nerf to Gallente blaster and drone boats.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.08.07 01:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet The simplest solution to exploding ships outside Jita is that in highsec, there is actually no AOE damage radius. However, this will be yet another nerf to Gallente blaster and drone boats. Not if you use use my crew damage addition. Yes, I did think of it's affects on gallente. Drones have no crew and gallente have the least penalties for crew loss. Please read my attached post
Nariya Kentaya Coalition Of Gentlemen.	Posted - 2011.08.07 02:56:00 - [23] Originally by: E man Industries Edited by: E man Industries on 02/08/2011 15:15:30 Supported..but 1. Damge should not be done on self destruct. 2. Damage and damge radius based on hull size 3. Damage inflicted takes into acount signature radius of ship being affected.(frigs take less dmg) 4. Damage is not huge. No doing this in jita would NOT be more effective than fitting 8 smartbombs on your battleship... Damage done needs to be less on frigates and tackle or will be to harsh on them in larger fleets. This is why DD's changed and look how much more varience sub cap fleets have now. So damage needs to take into acount the sigradius of the ship getting hit. Damage should nto be large, at most a few smart bomb pulses worth. Think this would be great and help seperate the blob. Would make fleets act more as individual wings than one giant blob(this will not make fleets smaller..just mroe intresting. think this would add a lot of fun to the game... supported.[/quote really, a battleship exploding wouldnt do as much damage to a frig as to another battl;eship becasue the frig IS smaller, the inertia of the blast would just push it back, and more then likely, out of the way of the debris that WOULD cause it damage, but another battleship would be too big and would feel the explosion full-blast... another thing, self-destructing is not exactly the same as being destroyed, as far as principle goes, make the power of a self-destruct only half that of a ship destroyed, since self-destruct is a controlled explosion, while being destroyed is quite literally your (nuclear/fusion/whatever) power core being ripped apart and throwing all of its stored up energy out.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2011.08.07 14:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Nariya Kentaya really, a battleship exploding wouldn't do as much damage to a frig as to another battleship because the frig IS smaller, the inertia of the blast would just push it back, and more then likely, out of the way of the debris that WOULD cause it damage, but another battleship would be too big and would feel the explosion full-blast... another thing, self-destructing is not exactly the same as being destroyed, as far as principle goes, make the power of a self-destruct only half that of a ship destroyed, since self-destruct is a controlled explosion, while being destroyed is quite literally your (nuclear/fusion/whatever) power core being ripped apart and throwing all of its stored up energy out. BS vs Frig is already handled by game mechanics. Explosion radius vs Sig radius. So there's no sense in arguing how the explosion will affect different sized ships. Self destructing isn't the same as being destroyed. During a battle, you're trying to keep your ship together. Then it takes too much damage, can't keep the core stable any longer, and catastrophically fails. Self destruct is voluntarily causing the core to fail. So once again, why would anyone design a self destruct that only makes your ship -explode a little-?
Linoa Hiroshi Amarr The CounterSpace Society	Posted - 2011.08.11 20:59:00 - [25] Supported but : Damage inflicted takes into account signature radius of ship being affected. Damage is not huge. (and I'd like to see new design of the wrecked ships. The same old wreck for all ship isn't very attractive for a salvager.) The CounterSpace Society
Sephiroth CloneIIV Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK	Posted - 2011.08.11 23:51:00 - [26] To make the damage scale properly to be not too much or too little, do it based on 10% of the total HP of the ship. That of course being damage done at the epicenter (closest) then farther away go down. Maybe even further that the damage is based off the base hull hp without any skill or modules modifiers, because adding armor plates or shields wouldn't make sense for giving a ship more boom. That way a titan could create a cataclysm for just about any insignificant ships around it (if they did not warp off in time, much like when the starwars deathstar was going down). Though at the same time the explosion wouldn't kill other capitals (unless severely damaged already). So even if a battleship dies in blob it will not start off a chain reaction if all the ships perfectly healthy (that might be fun to see but... yea), though the damage is still significant to make people think about changing fleet formations to a blob. This idea could be great, it would add a really dynamic feature to eve that would really make people think about how they position ships (people who are up and close fighters might be weary about finishing off a ship if they are too close, or maybe stick close in spite of danger and hope their ship dieing can help bring down the enemy).
Corina's Bodyguard	Posted - 2011.08.12 01:44:00 - [27] Great idea. I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire.
Nariya Kentaya Coalition Of Gentlemen.	Posted - 2011.08.12 04:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Great idea. I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire. no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest... on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.12 13:53:00 - [29] Seriously people...stop nitpicking at the stupid little crap that has obvious ways to be corrected. And if you are going to nitpick then give a way to correct your little problem. Thanks for those that have given support so far and have given ideas to flesh this out. I like the idea of having the explosion of one ship destroy another and possibly cause a chain reaction. I agree that the damage should never be enough to destroy any ship that has full shields and armor. That would be stupid. Self destructing should do damage...but as stated before time and time again...ill state it again for those of you who don't know how to read...change self destruct so it cant be done within 250km of a station or gate. As for who should get credit for the damage...im on the fence but im leaning towards the exploding ship. Yes you might get some friendly damage on your KB's but YOUR exploding ship is YOUR damage and should give YOU the credit if you kill someone with it. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Nur AlHuda Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2011.08.12 14:01:00 - [30] Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 12/08/2011 14:01:25 I like the idea. Already its strange that no friendly fire is turned on and lasers and ammo can go trough your ship without cousing any damage.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari draketrain	Posted - 2011.08.13 10:00:00 - [31] no absolutely no, because tacklers would just blow up all time people should undock more and think less.
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.08.14 01:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 12/08/2011 14:01:25 I like the idea. Already its strange that no friendly fire is turned on and lasers and ammo can go trough your ship without cousing any damage. "weird" you mean "practical" Anyone with a computer science background will understand that this is not feasible. If you think you have bad lag now imagine if the server had to calculate occlusion and edge detect dynamics. Not possible with the current state of technology
Sephiroth CloneIIV Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK	Posted - 2011.08.14 03:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Nariya Kentaya Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Great idea. I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire. no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest... on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner.
Tub Chil	Posted - 2011.08.14 09:39:00 - [34] Edited by: Tub Chil on 14/08/2011 09:39:36 so ganking people in jita is a bad thing?
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.14 23:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV Originally by: Nariya Kentaya Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Great idea. I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire. no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest... on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner. That does make a lot more sense. Another concern that was brought to my attention would be war dec mechanics while on station and on gates. How would we circumvent damage done by an exploding ship to an innocent bystander on a station or gate that has nothing to do with the wardec when hit by the exploding ship? Any suggestions on this? NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Kaelie Onren Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV Originally by: Nariya Kentaya Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Great idea. I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire. no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest... on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner. That does make a lot more sense. Another concern that was brought to my attention would be war dec mechanics while on station and on gates. How would we circumvent damage done by an exploding ship to an innocent bystander on a station or gate that has nothing to do with the wardec when hit by the exploding ship? Any suggestions on this? You are just noticing this now? I thought that we already went over the problems with this when the point of chain reaction blow ups at Jita. Wardecs have little to do with it. There will always be bystanders. You either treat them like smartbombs launched by the final blower or don't count them as aggro. Both have problems. The first will add a loophole to wardec'd players with human shields, the latter will result in many innocent deaths at station gates. Nobody has yet proposed a sufficient solution to this. Let me try, make it no aggro from the final blower, no aggro from exploder, no killmail prize to anyone, but make starting aggro within 20km of stations concordable. EVEN with a legal wardec due to danger to innocents. This includes self destructs. You will get sec penalties. Next, make sure that the damage from self destructing ships that are cheap and replaceable can't even destroy a rookie ship, to avoid mass grieving. --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
Kaelie Onren Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Originally by: Sephiroth CloneIIV Originally by: Nariya Kentaya Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Great idea. I undock, get ganked on station, and boom, negative sec and standing with the local empire. no, a player's ship exploding, all the damage should count as attacks performed by the person who killed them, so if someone wants to gank-on-station, they run the risk of aggro'ing 30+ players outside jita 4-4 and kicking the CONCORD hornet nest... on a side not, they need to add a new stimulant only available through a CONCORD LP store, Concord grape Jelly Good thinking, if another person guns the person blowing up then the resulting security hit goes to the ganker. Though also if it is a self destruct then have the blame go to the ship owner. That does make a lot more sense. Another concern that was brought to my attention would be war dec mechanics while on station and on gates. How would we circumvent damage done by an exploding ship to an innocent bystander on a station or gate that has nothing to do with the wardec when hit by the exploding ship? Any suggestions on this? You are just noticing this now? I thought that we already went over the problems with this when the point of chain reaction blow ups at Jita was brought up. Wardecs have little to do with it. There will always be bystanders. You either treat them like smartbombs launched by the final blower or don't count them as aggro. Both have problems. The first will add a loophole to wardec'd players with human shields, the latter will result in many innocent deaths at station gates. Nobody has yet proposed a sufficient solution to this. Let me try, make it no aggro from the final blower, no aggro from exploder, no killmail prize to anyone, but make starting aggro within 20km of stations concordable. EVEN with a legal wardec due to danger to innocents. This includes self destructs. You will get sec penalties. Next, make sure that the damage from self destructing/exploding ships that are cheap and replaceable can't even destroy a rookie ship, to avoid mass grieving. Fixes station gaming too griefers will hate this. --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:27:00 - [38] This doesn't have anything to do with chain reactions. So I am not sure where that comment comes from. As for your proposal...it would work. The idea another person mentioned earlier was to limit the damage to a certain percentage. I was thinking of something along that line but making the percentage based on the mass of the exploding ship and then treating the explosion itself like a smartbomb or missile using the usual mechanics. Not sure about not having any killmail prize to anybody...thats kind of unavoidable but after thinking on it the GCC should go to the last person to fire on the exploding ship. Keep self destruct only capable 250 km off the gate. That way GCC could go to someone who self destructs but never on a gate or station. But yes I agree...any amount of damage that could ultimately destroy any ship with full shields and armor is too much. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!
Kaelie Onren Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.16 10:59:00 - [39] Well to me bystanders are bystanders. Whether they get hurt by a chain reaction or just the initial splash, really is irrelevant. Bystander damage needs to be treated as gcc on the aggressors, so we agree there. And self destructing in range of a station is counted as aggression. Where gcc should go is up for debate. I prefer the final blower. As the splash damage is a result of their action. Killmail we disagree on. We need to give NO reward for damage from splash if the receiver of the damage isn't in the same gang as the primary target. (innocent bystanders). Only if the damage is taken by a fleet mate or a player sharing a gcc or aggros flag should killmail be given for splash damage. Limiting percentage of damage by ship mass (receiver) makes sense. But we still need to make ANY splash aggro around a station concordable. Why? Because then griefers will just sit at stations and mass shoot all wardecd people for fun. Pick a big enough corp to wardec and you have plenty of targets exiting Jita at the same time. They can shoot at their war targets but if anyone is hurt on explosion, concord beats them for it. Make this station safety area 15km else people will use bystander human shields everywhere. This makes the only safe place to shoot war targets at gates. But at least there bystanders have a fighting chance to avoid unwanted splash due to random spawn, the 30 second cloak (which should make you invulnerable to splash) and you can time your incoming jumps not to be too close to others, unlike stations where you don't know when others undock. If you do get hit accidentally, and were damaged already so you happened to blow up, no killmail prize for the aggressors for the bystanders. --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
Suiken-user	Posted - 2011.08.17 12:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Simply put...a ship blows up then it should deal damage to every other ship around it within proximity. Ye sure, lets **** up blaster boats even more. I imagine pvp situation if you manage to kill BS yourself being deep in hull. Now would that be something? I would personally gather all alliance with 10% hull battleships and let one guy selfdestruct. Imagine chain reaction on 4-4.
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:04:00 - [41] 2 things people are not reading. #1) It does dmg based on sig radius....so no tacklers will not all die. #2) The damage done would be less than a smart bombing battle ships getting a few pulses off. If i want to gank you in high sec with aoe dmg there is far far more effecient and practical ways of doing it than suciding my own ship. these are the main concerns raised and they are somethign to be balanced out. the concept of this mechanic is sound. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy.	Posted - 2011.08.17 21:46:00 - [42] I don't see how this will be a problem for blaster boats at all. Typically the larger the ship the larger the range even with blasters. The smaller the ship the faster they are so they are a lot less likely to get hit and even if they do the damage will be a lot less. The explosion radius doesn't need to be all that great either. 7.5k...maybe 10 unless we base the explosion radius on the size of the ship as well. Most blasters if I am not mistaken fire well out of that range optimally. Might be nice to see capitals have an explosion radius of 25k or so... NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND!

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