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Edart eno
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Posted - 2011.08.04 16:22:00 -
[1]
Hey guys,
Mh I'm looking for a way to effictively kill canes.
Reason I'm asking is that once you know for certain what ship the enemy will be flying, it's most of the times easy to find a (cheaper) counter for that ship. However for the Hurricane I really don't know. Since it has so many tricks up its sleeve (capless guns, neuts, ...) I can't find a hole in it's defence, without moving up the pricelist into a BS/recon/...
So, given that the enemy flies cookie cutter canes, what is the cookie cutter antidote?
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.04 16:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Othran on 04/08/2011 16:30:54
Hit it with tracking disruptors. Depending on what you're flying adjust the script. Generally range disruption works best if you have a couple of tracks.
Edit - anything with a bit of range on the weapons and decent speed will do. Doesn't need bonuses to tracks although thats lovely.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2011.08.04 17:46:00 -
[3]
Triple rep Myrm, with T2 Autos and T2 Heavies. Use a Standard Exile booster, they aren't that pricey.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.08.04 18:29:00 -
[4]
I've solo'd several canes in t2 frigates.... Taranis, Jaguar, Ishkur.... You need a NOS, scram, and web. You kill their drones, and then slowly kill them.
A drake will often kill a cane, just stay at range to mitigate as much of his damage as possible. You should easily have a larger tank.
As for cruisers, an arbitrator should face **** a cane if it can get under its guns, just fit it with NOS or two and some tracks.
Typically, its not to hard to get under 425mm autocannons, then you need a nos or cap booster to overcome his nuets, and then the only damage he can apply is 5 drones, which are easily disposed of.
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Conor Todaki
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.04 18:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Conor Todaki on 04/08/2011 18:48:37
Drakes. Orbit at 500m. Most people will say this is a bad idea as getting out of range of the cane is advisable. Lets face it canes are faster than drakes and will dictate range but if you want to be anywhere you want to be creating as much transversal between you and the cane as possible. Even cruiser size guns will lose some damage to a drake orbiting them.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.04 20:57:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Edart eno
So, given that the enemy flies cookie cutter canes, what is the cookie cutter antidote?
[Drake, PODLA Nanodrake]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
Kite like mad, keep webs overheated and if he makes a MWD-charge to get into neut/scram/web range, just spam the webs to keep him back. When he goes to run, overheat your MWD, you can usually hold him long enough (with overheated point and MWD) that he'll pop.
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Katie Frost
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Posted - 2011.08.04 23:54:00 -
[7]
What you can also try is a Harbinger. Seems like suicide right?
However, you do have a flight of EC-600s and getting even 1 jam off on a Cane will mean that your 550-600DPS (depends on implants/damage mods) Harb will melt him. Canes will come right up to you as well, because they want those two sexy 50W Neuts to cap you out, not to mention the damage projection on a Scorched Harb will be better than the Cane at the optimal point range (20-25km).
Once they are in scram/web range and jammed out for even 1 cycle, Cane's tank will not be able to handle the Harb.
The best thing is, that nobody ever suspects the Harb... 
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.08.05 01:26:00 -
[8]
I've always been fond of the arbitrator for killing turret boats ;)
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VaL Iscariot
Caldari
The Concilium Enterprises
Spectrum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.05 03:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Katie Frost
What you can also try is a Harbinger. Seems like suicide right?
However, you do have a flight of EC-600s and getting even 1 jam off on a Cane will mean that your 550-600DPS (depends on implants/damage mods) Harb will melt him. Canes will come right up to you as well, because they want those two sexy 50W Neuts to cap you out, not to mention the damage projection on a Scorched Harb will be better than the Cane at the optimal point range (20-25km).
Once they are in scram/web range and jammed out for even 1 cycle, Cane's tank will not be able to handle the Harb.
The best thing is, that nobody ever suspects the Harb...
all this.
The Harbinger simply out preforms the Hurricane in every respect. Cane fan boy rage go.
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Ynot Eyob
Minmatar
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2011.08.05 09:41:00 -
[10]
I fly canes all the time, i just love that ship.
Only one thing I feer, and thats the Drake.
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Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
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Posted - 2011.08.05 10:10:00 -
[11]
+1 for the Arbitrator plan.
If you lose, you've lost a cruiser to a BC. No shame there.
If you win, OMFG MAN I JUST BEAT YOU IN A T1 CRUISER HAHAHAAHHA!" (etc)
Try:
[Arbitrator, Dead Cane]
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Medium Nosferatu II
Medium Nosferatu II
Drone Link Augmentor I
Salvager I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hammerhead II x5
The cookie-cutter-shield-cane has a MWD, point, no web. You should be able to shut him down and keep range with the scram and web easily enough. TD to mitigate damage, which should give you a DPS vs EHP advantage when you're sig tanking on the AB. NOS keeps your ewar running and stops him neuting you to flee. Primary the drones if you see him pop ECM drones and go for a bump tackle in case he gets a cycle off. Salvager .. because you may as well profit. Your cargohold will be empty to scoop the 50W neuts, too 
Engaging a 425mm cane should see great results. If he's 220mm.. you may have a harder time mitigating damage.
One point to make - it's not actually that cheap, and without v. good drone skills, he isn't dying very quickly.
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Taron Hakard
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Posted - 2011.08.05 11:36:00 -
[12]
Arbitrator.
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Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2011.08.05 12:06:00 -
[13]
very situational (u need scram and either web or TD) .... try to skip frigs (good cane pilot with neuts and light drones will melt ur face Nos or noNos or articanes will alfa u). Careful with armor tanked buffer canes (can melt face of many interesting setups).
Cruisers:
1) EC-600 rax
2) EC-300/600 rupture with neuts (armor tank prefered, but can be even the scram TD or nano
3) arbitrator
BC:
u have to utilize bonuses of ur ships and or TD or EC drones.
Note to TD - one TD can be overcome by proper piloting (u have to aproach ur target - either closer of keep range- based on script). 2 scripted TDs are very hard to overcome even by good piloting (on the other hand some cane pilots have ec drones or can neut u).
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Mara Abraham
Minmatar
Faction Warriors 411
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Posted - 2011.08.05 17:07:00 -
[14]
Good day, Lady Go Diveher:
Did you mean to use all NOS's and no neut's in the arby fit you posted?
Thank you.
--- Mara Abraham
* http://www.factionalwarfare.info
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.08.05 18:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mara Abraham
Good day, Lady Go Diveher:
Did you mean to use all NOS's and no neut's in the arby fit you posted?
Thank you.
The NOS is there specifically to counter the 2 med neuts that most AC Canes will be packing...in theory he will neut you killing your cap (killing his cap too btw...but not as much as yours...and he doesn't need it anyway right...right?!?!... that's a different discussion)...the 2 small NOS are enough (when cycled) to keep you Point/Web running even if neuted to 0 cap. Though I doubt they are enough to keep your AB+TD running...in the Arby you need to outlast the Cane. Your drones will not kill it fast...
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Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
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Posted - 2011.08.05 21:36:00 -
[16]
If its an shield cane then either a standard HML Drake with a web fitted 85k ehp and 500dps will either kill it or force it off.
If its an armor cane a nano drake will kite and kill it.
Either way the drake is a great cheap counter to pretty much any cane fit, if I was feeling adventurous I would say a nano drake would be able to beat either fit.
--------------------------------------------
Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.08.05 23:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 05/08/2011 23:06:40
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 05/08/2011 23:05:57
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
+1 for the Arbitrator plan.
If you lose, you've lost a cruiser to a BC. No shame there.
If you win, OMFG MAN I JUST BEAT YOU IN A T1 CRUISER HAHAHAAHHA!" (etc)
Try:
[Arbitrator, Dead Cane]
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Medium Nosferatu II
Medium Nosferatu II
Drone Link Augmentor I
Salvager I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hammerhead II x5
The cookie-cutter-shield-cane has a MWD, point, no web. You should be able to shut him down and keep range with the scram and web easily enough. TD to mitigate damage, which should give you a DPS vs EHP advantage when you're sig tanking on the AB. NOS keeps your ewar running and stops him neuting you to flee. Primary the drones if you see him pop ECM drones and go for a bump tackle in case he gets a cycle off. Salvager .. because you may as well profit. Your cargohold will be empty to scoop the 50W neuts, too
Engaging a 425mm cane should see great results. If he's 220mm.. you may have a harder time mitigating damage.
One point to make - it's not actually that cheap, and without v. good drone skills, he isn't dying very quickly.
TBH your fit is flawed.
1) Go with 1 Med and 1 small T2 NOS
2) Dump the useless drone control and salvager and replace with a med and small neut (not T2).
Take along hard look at your rigs.... dump one of those trimarks, it's only adding like 2000ish ehp, replace with an egress maximizer or a CCC... you'll love what it does for your cap stability. Trust me, dropping your EHP by a whopping 2.3k isn't going to be a problem. The extra cap stability, however, is the difference between life and death.
Mids: I never use a web... I let the scram do it's job. Anything that's using an AB will be capped out in no time anyway and anything using a MWD can't use it. Once they have no propulsion your AB will allow you to keep up easily. Instead of the web fit a 2nd TD :) 2 Bonused TD's will ruin any turret ship's day and you'll take no damage from them at all. When the fight starts, if it's at range, just use 1 range scripted and the other have your tracking script in. When he closes (and he will) flip your range script to a 2nd tracking script and tackle him and watch him cry as his cap drops to nothing while yours holds long enough for him to go dry. then shut down all but a small neut (enough to keep him capped out) and enjoy killing his ship while he can't do anything.
Initially I'd go ahead and kill off his drones with yours then kill his ship.
Personally I'd bait him away from the gate. There's not a cane pilot alive who won't go racing after a T1 cruiser thinking 'easy kill!'. Just pull him off to about 50-60km off the gate then run at him as he closes and get in small neut range asap ;)
Edit: Almost forgot.... drones.
Carry a flight of T2 med combat drones, Med (or light) ECM drones, and light combat drones. Leaves you with 25m3 (or 50) for whatever you want spare in there... If you're in hostile 0.o w/o station access nearby bring a flight of light repper bots to patch your drones up with.
If things get dicey or he's smart enough to stay at range from you and long point then just drop your EC drones, jam him, and leave.
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Allah Gold
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Posted - 2011.08.06 06:20:00 -
[18]
Triple BCU brawler HAM Drake. VERY fitting intensive, but w/ rage ammo and implants, plus clever fitting knowledge, you can make it work.
When most people see a Drake, they think HML all tank, no gank. Hence, he'll mostly likely charge right at you, which is exactly what you want. Once he gets in web range, he's screwed. Web him and orbit his ass at 500, scoop loot.
The only way he'll have a chance in hell of winning is if he's rocking a high-grade Slave set.
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