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Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 11:55:00 - [1] Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. It seems to me like you are playing forums. i guess people like you are enjoying destroying england in riots right now. Whats up with this CSM minutes. or something that has to do with response from CCP. Why dont you let CCP make their game, and you yourself just go and play it. You dont get paid for design/programming. So why do you keep arguing about aspects like AUR/Plex, p2w. etc. If EvE will become not what you want then just find another game. As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, and their server logs has shown consistent addition of players- successful game. I am really tired of coming to general forum and having to sift through your cry-posts just to find a good normal post to read. A good example of what people like you "protesters" can do to a game has an example - World of warcraft. They lost 1mil subscribers, and warcraftrealms show 2.2mil players total playing it(unlike 12mil advertised) You also make developers to think that they are gods and creators(which they are not) by making "balancing" or "suggesting" threads. they are just CCP employees who work for living, just like everyone else do. Cliffs: Forums = end of eve prediction (miserable future for eve) - makes people lose smile Game = very active 1 server universe, where alot of action is going on, people login, have fun and logoff. Make general forums cry-free. If you have something to suggest, go to suggestion forums. Thanks
Laganda	Posted - 2011.08.10 11:58:00 - [2] I will start you off with trolls you are 100% correct but you now your gonna ge trolled by idiots that don't know any think but there own little world
Alhambra Rainwalker Caldari Innera Holiday Resorts	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:05:00 - [3] Your feelings are completely normal. If you have made up your mind on something seeing opposite opinions starts to irritate because we have this silly tendency to assume that world is ours alone. Indeed, in case of really contrasted opinions it can be extremely hard to understand your opponents because you will subconsciosly resist it. Another thing is that we have amazing capability for self-deception. Humans will go surprisingly far into fitting whatever happens to their own paradigm/opinions even if it only barely fits and falls apart on further inspection.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:06:00 - [4] Why would anyone care what a character bought one month ago and with no clue about the game thinks?
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Shadowfoot As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, and their server logs has shown consistent addition of players- successful game. You might want to check your facts before using an uninformed opinion to criticise the actions of others. If this is your definition of a successful game then eve is sadly not (not that I would judge success on the basis of this definition myself).
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Shadowfoot As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, and their server logs has shown consistent addition of players- successful game. Wow. Who's your insider who gave you these logs? CCP sure is leaking like a sieve these daysà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Skunk Gracklaw Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Shadowfoot Cant you just get off forums for a sec. That is horrible advice. Never stop posting. Just post better than the OP...
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:09:00 - [8] In after the bitter hatebois. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:09:00 - [9] Unlike people like you who joined game in 2010. I seen eve grow from 1-2k primetime to todays 40k's. I can see trolls coming. Go away
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:11:00 - [10] Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 12:11:22 Originally by: Shadowfoot Unlike people like you who joined game in 2010. I seen eve grow from 1-2k primetime to todays 40k's. Unlike someone who hasn't been paying attention, I've seen EVE grow to 55k at prime times only to have it shrink back to 40à Quote: I can see trolls coming. Go away Yes, please do. àwell, unless you have those logs, that is, and want to share them. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Shadowfoot Unlike people like you who joined game in 2010. I seen eve grow from 1-2k primetime to todays 40k's. I can see trolls coming. Go away Ah! I see now. So a constant addition of players means that the number of players now is higher than when the game started. So if the number drops to 20k next month eve will still have seen a constant addition of players despite losing many players. Wonderful use of language. Look at Eve offline and inform yourself. Numbers are down considerably over the last 6-12 months.
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:17:00 - [12] i didnt come here to talk about eve-offline count. I came here to ask for public's help to stop those crythreads. or at least get an explanation why people care so much about it, do they live inside eve to require EVE CCP POLITICS? or what
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Shadowfoot i didnt come here to talk about eve-offline count. Tough. Then maybe you shouldn't have included claims that kind of contradict what eve-offline tells usà Quote: I came here to ask for public's help to stop those crythreads. Well, for starters, don't try to invent your own reality without anything to back it up. Secondly, you can try to read the threads you refer to, rather than just dismiss them as ôcrythreadö, since they explain things well enough. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:25:00 - [14] here are the crythreads: issue with pi When do we get the functionality back? Hybrid Balance Petition FW tweak thread. CCP Soundwave callout DUST 514... Are all Eve Players scared of this game? The New Turret Icons are Terrible Please FIX Warp Disruption Fields and Grid Manipulation - Valid tactic? CCP? .THATS JUST FIRST PAGE. you are welcome to add more from 2nd page..
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadowfoot here are the crythreads: Well, that pretty much proves that you didn't actually read themà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cedar Locus	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:34:00 - [16] obvious dev alt is posting in forums
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:48:00 - [17] The first page of replies to this thread have done nothing but prove that my original post is extremely valid. Thank you for unintentionally supporting my argument, this is irony at its purest form. Let me begin with the first class of "counter-arguments", those questioning my experience with Eve Online. Guess what guys, Eve Online is a game. I am a human being playing this game, as are you. We are all entitled to the same amount of enjoyment, and those of us who do not enjoy the game can leave any time - no one is imprisoning you in the Eve Universe. To suggest that I cannot have an opinion because I am supposedly not as "experienced" as you, and that you are a superior individual because you're a 'veteran' is not only pathetic but also laughable. The other type of "counter-arguments" I have seen so far revolves around a redundant philosophical definition of "What is success" and nitpicking around customer base numbers. This is completely irrelevant. I have made dozens of points in my original post, and the fact that you only respond to this one to try to break down my argument pretty much shows that you have nothing else to say about the 'meat and potatoes' of my main post, so to speak. This is completely ignoring the fact that every single one of you have avoided directly addressing the majority of my points. You are living so deep in this forum-reality-life of yours that the moment you find a small point to argue against you latch onto it for dear life and spam this forum with your miserable nonsense. You aren't doing anyone a favour by bringing your negativity here. As one equal person to another, I would suggest you to find better things to do with your time than cry about the nitpicked specifics of a video game. Enjoy the game, or find a meaning to your life elsewhere.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Shadowfoot The first page of replies to this thread have done nothing but prove that my original post is extremely valid. Thank you for unintentionally supporting my argument, this is irony at its purest form. Let me begin with the first class of "counter-arguments", those questioning my experience with Eve Online. Guess what guys, Eve Online is a game. I am a human being playing this game, as are you. We are all entitled to the same amount of enjoyment, and those of us who do not enjoy the game can leave any time - no one is imprisoning you in the Eve Universe. To suggest that I cannot have an opinion because I am supposedly not as "experienced" as you, and that you are a superior individual because you're a 'veteran' is not only pathetic but also laughable. The other type of "counter-arguments" I have seen so far revolves around a redundant philosophical definition of "What is success" and nitpicking around customer base numbers. This is completely irrelevant. I have made dozens of points in my original post, and the fact that you only respond to this one to try to break down my argument pretty much shows that you have nothing else to say about the 'meat and potatoes' of my main post, so to speak. This is completely ignoring the fact that every single one of you have avoided directly addressing the majority of my points. You are living so deep in this forum-reality-life of yours that the moment you find a small point to argue against you latch onto it for dear life and spam this forum with your miserable nonsense. You aren't doing anyone a favour by bringing your negativity here. As one equal person to another, I would suggest you to find better things to do with your time than cry about the nitpicked specifics of a video game. Enjoy the game, or find a meaning to your life elsewhere. Your whole argument (at least the few coherent bits) is predicated on the assertion that eve is a successful game. Pointing out that it is not, by your own understanding of success, is not a tangential point but, rather, speaks directly to the point you are trying to make. Eve is a broken game, in many respects, and that is why many of the threads complaining about aspectsof it are perfectly valid. What you really need to do is provide an argument for why people shouldn't complain even when the game has lots of problems. Also, meta-cry threads are still cry threads.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Shadowfoot The first page of replies to this thread have done nothing but prove that my original post is extremely valid. Oh, don't worry. You proved that yourself by posting a crythread. Quote: The other type of "counter-arguments" I have seen so far revolves around a redundant philosophical definition of "What is success" and nitpicking around customer base numbers Well, you shouldn't have brought it up if it's so redundant and nit-picky. Quote: This is completely ignoring the fact that every single one of you have avoided directly addressing the majority of my points. Your only point was "waah! I don't want to read negative threads". Well, tough. Learn to be discriminate in your reading and/or stop judging threads by their titles (as you have so obviously done) and start to read them instead. You might actually learn something. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Hroya	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Shadowfoot here are the crythreads: issue with pi When do we get the functionality back? Hybrid Balance Petition FW tweak thread. CCP Soundwave callout DUST 514... Are all Eve Players scared of this game? The New Turret Icons are Terrible Please FIX Warp Disruption Fields and Grid Manipulation - Valid tactic? CCP? .THATS JUST FIRST PAGE. you are welcome to add more from 2nd page.. What exactly is wrong with those topics ? This is afterall General Discussion where people discuss issue's among them that they encounter in the game. Some use proper wording while others just rant and lash out. It's a choice and everyone is permitted to voice his or her opinion in a matter they see fit within the rules of the forum. Moderators will react appropriatly to topics with no content or posts that violate the forum rules. If people didnt care about the game, they wouldnt post on the forum. On that note, if you advise people to play the game and not hang on the forums all the time, then why are you troubled by the forums since you would be playing the game instead of hanging here ?
Valei Khurelem	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/08/2011 13:00:49 I've stated what I believe about this game and that's that, I don't hate EVE, I don't necessarily hate CCP, even if they have acted like outrageous douchebags about all this, I just hate the direction everything is going because I can see clearly it's going to end badly. I'd love to play this game and enjoy it, but frankly, with all the bull****, I don't see the point. Honestly expressing my beliefs and opinions is not trolling
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:02:00 - [22] Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 13:03:07 If you want a detailed reply to your points: Originally by: Shadowfoot Edited by: Shadowfoot on 10/08/2011 12:15:39 Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. Not really any points made here. People enjoy the game in different ways and some people enjoy trying to improve it via the forums or enjoy trolling the forums. Quote: It seems to me like you are playing forums. i guess people like you are enjoying destroying england in riots right now. Pointless ad hominem comparison to rioters in the UK. But yes, many people like playing forums. Still no points made as yet as to why threads you don't like shouldn't be posted. Quote: Whats up with this CSM minutes. or something that has to do with response from CCP. Why dont you let CCP make their game, and you yourself just go and play it. This isn't a point of argument, it is a statement (or rhetorical question, really) based on a failure to understand the motivations of others. Quote: You dont get paid for design/programming. So why do you keep arguing about aspects like AUR/Plex, p2w. etc. To the extent that this constitutes an argument it is a mere argument from authority and as such not worth considering. Quote: If EvE will become not what you want then just find another game. Again, not really a point so much as an instruction. And, no, btw. It's not up to you to issue such commands. Quote: As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, eventhough eve-offline showed active player decline(more mature players)- successful game. I am really tired of coming to general forum and having to sift through your cry-posts just to find a good normal post to read. A good example of what people like you "protesters" can do to a game has an example - World of warcraft. They lost 1mil subscribers, and warcraftrealms show 2.2mil players total playing it(unlike 12mil advertised) You also make developers to think that they are gods and creators(which they are not) by making "balancing" or "suggesting" threads. they are just CCP employees who work for living, just like everyone else do. And the rest of this is based on your successful/unsuccessful distinction which has been shown to be flawed So, which of your wonderful points of argument do you think we should take more time to consider?
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:02:00 - [23] Originally by: RAW23 Your whole argument (at least the few coherent bits) is predicated on the assertion that eve is a successful game. Pointing out that it is not, by your own understanding of success, is not a tangential point but, rather, speaks directly to the point you are trying to make. Eve is a broken game, in many respects, and that is why many of the threads complaining about aspectsof it are perfectly valid. What you really need to do is provide an argument for why people shouldn't complain even when the game has lots of problems. Also, meta-cry threads are still cry threads. My whole argument is based on the assertion that if you do not think eve is a successful game (which it is, it is one of the few games to survive and grow for years), then you can leave. You are under the assumption that it's reasonable that 90% of the threads in this forum are complaint threads. Do you honestly have nothing better to do than complain? If you want to suggest, go to the suggestions forum. If you want to discuss (GENERAL DISCUSSION, not GENERAL COMPLAINTS), then post in this forum. If you're unhappy, you can leave. There are people who play the game and don't voice their opinions on these forums and they're having a lot of fun. The reality is, you're the loud, visible, and miserable minority.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Shadowfoot My whole argument is based on the assertion that if you do not think eve is a successful game (which it is, it is one of the few games to survive and grow for years), then you can leave. àand the simple counter-argument ù or more accurately, parallel argument ù is that if you don't want to discuss EVE, both good and bad, then you can stay out of the forums. Quote: If you're unhappy, you can leave. àor, more constructively, try to address the cause of said unhappiness. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Partenope Gallente Pilots of Epic Roughneck Regulators	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:07:00 - [25] Shadowfoot, in a democracy you have to live with that other people think diiffent as you. Everybody has the right to say waht the think about the game, maybe you do not agree with them, but you should respect them. Best for now -You cannot make a revolution with silk gloves. -Joseph Stalin (1879-1953)
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Shadowfoot My whole argument is based on the assertion that if you do not think eve is a successful game (which it is, it is one of the few games to survive and grow for years), then you can leave. àand the simple counter-argument ù or more accurately, parallel argument ù is that if you don't want to discuss EVE, both good and bad, then you can stay out of the forums. Quote: If you're unhappy, you can leave. àor, more constructively, try to address the cause of said unhappiness. I'm glad you're into creating arguments "parallel" to mine, maybe one day we can create an argumentative trigonometric masterpiece. Lets be realistic here for a moment, if this forum had a balance of 'good and bad', there would be nothing wrong. Except that it's 95% negative, and 5% constructive. You are not an Eve developer. You're also not a customer service vigilante, an anarchist warrior. It is not your job to address the "cause" of the unhappiness - in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness and then complaining that no one is there to fix it. CCP has a vision for the game. They will take your advice into consideration; IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM. If their vision does not align with yours, then yes, really, you can leave the game. Stop trying to impose your views on how things should be run.
Lady Spank Amarr In Praise Of Shadows	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:12:00 - [27] ITT: Displeasure at poor implementation of features or concerns regarding bugs = ANARCHY. ~~~ Screenshot batch compression
Hroya	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:13:00 - [28] I think i ended my post with a question.
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Partenope Shadowfoot, in a democracy you have to live with that other people think diiffent as you. Everybody has the right to say waht the think about the game, maybe you do not agree with them, but you should respect them. Best for now The first intelligent reply to my thread. Thank you. I am not being sarcastic either. People do have different opinions, and respect goes both ways, these forums would be a much more fun place to participate in if everyone was truly respectful and argued constructively as opposed to spewing negative criticisms all over the place about every minor detail they can think of.
Partenope Gallente Pilots of Epic Roughneck Regulators	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:14:00 - [30] well, it¦s seems to me the only one it¦s trying to impose something is you. -You cannot make a revolution with silk gloves. -Joseph Stalin (1879-1953)
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:15:00 - [31] Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 13:17:24 Originally by: Shadowfoot Lets be realistic here for a moment, if this forum had a balance of 'good and bad', there would be nothing wrong. Except that it's 95% negative, and 5% constructive. àand maybe that's a hint that you should look into a bit more closely. Quote: It is not your job to address the "cause" of the unhappiness Actually, it is. If I'm unhappy, then explaning the source of said unhappiness, finding out of others feel the same way, and demonstrating that it is indeed a problem is the first step towards potentially solving that issue. Quote: in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness That is not a fact, no. Quote: CCP has a vision for the game. They will take your advice into consideration; IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM. àyeah, but you see, there are so many steps before that, and those are just as valid and necessary as the suggestion itself ù in many cases more so, in fact. Quote: Stop trying to impose your views on how things should be run. Yes, please do. Stop whining just because others do not adhere to your views about what should be in the forums. Quote: these forums would be a much more fun place to participate in if everyone was truly respectful and argued constructively as opposed to spewing negative criticisms all over the place Oh, you mean like creating whine threads about how other people communicate the issues they see with the game and dismissing those concerns as ôcryingö just because you don't want to read it? That doesn't sound particularly respectful or constructive, and more like spewing negative criticism. So yes, I think I'll go with that parallel still: if you don't want to discuss EVE, both good and bad, then you can stay out of the forums. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:17:00 - [32] Edited by: Karl Planck on 10/08/2011 13:19:14 Originally by: Shadowfoot I'm glad you're into creating arguments "parallel" to mine, maybe one day we can create an argumentative trigonometric masterpiece. Lets be realistic here for a moment, if this forum had a balance of 'good and bad', there would be nothing wrong. Except that it's 95% negative, and 5% constructive. You are not an Eve developer. You're also not a customer service vigilante, an anarchist warrior. It is not your job to address the "cause" of the unhappiness - in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness and then complaining that no one is there to fix it. CCP has a vision for the game. They will take your advice into consideration; IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM. If their vision does not align with yours, then yes, really, you can leave the game. Stop trying to impose your views on how things should be run. I agree with what your saying in principle for sure. Moreover, I also support flaming the trolls responding thus far just to keep the number of whining to anti-whining threads in a quasi-balance. In general though, i just miss the old GD. I mean, these threads used to be entertaining. Outside new players, players looking to come into the game and pathetic protestors (it was pathetic and you guys know it) no one takes these threads seriously. If no one is taking it seriously then lets just go back to the good ol GD. Edit* btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt. ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Karl Planck btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt. What's trolling about it? He's being a hypocrite and is inventing pure nonsense to support a view that is downright counter-productive and quite contrary to the whole point of having a forum. I don't quite see how explaining these facts to him counts as a trollà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Karl Planck btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt. What's trolling about it? He's being a hypocrite and is inventing pure nonsense to support a view that is downright counter-productive and quite contrary to the whole point of having a forum. I don't quite see how explaining these facts to him counts as a trollà Sigh, i have been of the impression that your responses in the past were usually trolls (which made a good chunk of your posts quite funny). Sad face ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Shadowfoot Caldari Pandora Sphere Bondage Patrol	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Karl Planck Edit* btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt. Haha, I actually lol'd in real life. Good post.
Lady Spank Amarr In Praise Of Shadows	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:25:00 - [36] Babby speak "You are trolling" English translation "I don't like your opinion and find your tone patronising, even though I am a massive babby and don't deserve to be spoken to with anything but derision." ~~~ Screenshot batch compression
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Karl Planck Sigh, i have been of the impression that your responses in the past were usually trolls (which made a good chunk of your posts quite funny). Sad face They're not. Trust me, if I troll, you'll know ità In this case, though, I'm simply calling the OP out on his trolling. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Lady Spank Babby speak "You are trolling" English translation "I don't like your opinion and find your tone patronising, even though I am a massive babby and don't deserve to be spoken to with anything but derision." Naw, you know what i am talking about spank. And i am a huge fan of the monocle trolls (especially the original) as well as Mr. Epeen , among others. @Tippia, touche ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Lady Spank Amarr In Praise Of Shadows	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:53:00 - [39] I genuinely dislike all the dumb trolls on these forums. The problem is everyone is so quick to use that brush to tar everyone just because they are being slightly patronising when delivering an opposing view, or putting down someone who is being an imbecile like the OP. ~~~ Screenshot batch compression
LittleTerror	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Laganda I will start you off with trolls you are 100% correct but you now your gonna ge trolled by idiots that don't know any think but there own little world dude, your boobs...
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:04:00 - [41] Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread. Here is the thing. EVE at least in low sec has about half the numbers in local that I am used to seeing. The UI is slow so you can't warp your pods out, skills weren't applying to ships. But even beyond that, many people think ccp is doing horrible for many many other reasons. And its not "just a few" players. Posting in the forums that ôCCP is doing fineö is just going to bring many posts explaining why you are wrong. Not necessarily trolls just people who think ccp is screwing the pooch. All of these white knight threads end up the same. OP posts how great ccp is doing. Then it turns into 5 pages of people telling the op why CCP is doing horrible. Then another white knight thread pops up calling all the players cry babies and hooray for walking in stations and virtual clothes! And the same thing keeps happening. OP if you want to continue to create threads bashing ccp keep doing what you are doing. But at this point most of the whine threads are people like you whining because so many people disagree with you.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Quote: in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness That is not a fact, no. in fact it is. It is enough to new person to simply visit Eve forums and find that Eve is dieing, everything is broken and people unsub. After this "first experience" no one will even try to login because "game is ****ty". And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing. This is result of you forum warriors work for Eve. Thanks to you!
Lady Spank Amarr In Praise Of Shadows	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:09:00 - [43] Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Tippia Quote: in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness That is not a fact, no. in fact it is. It is enough to new person to simply visit Eve forums and find that Eve is dieing, everything is broken and people unsub. After this "first experience" no one will even try to login because "game is **ty". And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing. This is result of you forum warriors work for Eve. Thanks to you! Wrong once again. This is CCP's doing by making a ** up of their game by filling it with game breaking bugs and badly implemented features. ~~~ Screenshot batch compression
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Tippia Quote: in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness That is not a fact, no. in fact it is. Ah, so it's always your fault if I punch you in the face. Quote: And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing. And "nothing" is exactly what you're asking for (since it won't scare away those new players), so then it's all good, right?
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:22:00 - [45] Edited by: Thornat on 10/08/2011 14:24:52 Edited by: Thornat on 10/08/2011 14:23:34 Edited by: Thornat on 10/08/2011 14:23:05 Not to offend the poster, your entitled to your opinion and welcome to share it, glad you did. But frankly as a new player (from what I can tell) your ability to asses the game is going to be severly hindered and you have to understand that players that have been here for many years have a lot more context and experiance for the issues at hand. Their are issues and you are right, many of these people do come off pretty cry babish... but if you play the game for long enough, often a simple "How about fixing the Amar" for example has a lot of meaning in it and most experianced players know exactly what your talking about. As a newbie it might seem like a random troll, but the reality is that their is a real issue behind that and as a veteran player myself a person doesn't need to say a whole lot more. I know what the issues are, he doesn't need to explain it to me and I'm glad that people continue to complain about it on the forum as a constant reminder that hey "This is still F'ed up!". In more recent days however the issues in Eve have become rather outragous. I suggest listening to this podcast here at Eve radio which includes conversations with CSM members, former Eve Employees and knowledgable players if you want to come to grips with the situation (if your even interested in understanding why the community is upset and protesting).Eve Radio Podcast My point here is that, while I understand a new player might be a bit confused about where all this complaining is coming from and exactly why people are in arms over it, as a new player I strongly suggest at least giving the community enough courtesy to find out why everyone is **ed. Yes your right, it does come off a bit imature, but thats what happens when a diplomatic conversation turns into a fist fight and right now the community and CCP are definitly no longer diplomatic.. its a fist fight and things are ugly, but that doesn't mean their isn't a good reason for it, because frankly while I try to be constructive and participate in the discussion with some level of respect and calm deamenor, after learning all the facts I can completetly understand why people are **ed and why they are spamming the forum with their outrage. To put it bluntly, CCP brought it on themselves and they have some explaining to do.
LittleTerror	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:26:00 - [46] Originally by: jackaloped Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread. +stuff I actually like the whole walking in stations stuff, I think that is really cool and I hope one day I can actually board someones ships to either greet them or kill them in first person combat. However I really dislike CCP's introduction of more micro transactions, that's what **es me off because the way I see it going is it will become a game for the rich **s. Like just wait till they start offering skill remaps for a plex and I reckon that will happen soon. So just because someone has more money than me they can skill faster than me
Alissa Solette	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Othran Why would anyone care what a character bought one month ago and with no clue about the game thinks? ^this. GB2ebay
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:34:00 - [48] Originally by: LittleTerror Originally by: jackaloped Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread. +stuff I actually like the whole walking in stations stuff, I think that is really cool and I hope one day I can actually board someones ships to either greet them or kill them in first person combat. However I really dislike CCP's introduction of more micro transactions, that's what **es me off because the way I see it going is it will become a game for the rich s. Like just wait till they start offering skill remaps for a plex and I reckon that will happen soon. So just because someone has more money than me they can skill faster than me +1 on that I'm in the same boat. I personally love the in station stuff, at least conceptually and Im glad they are persuing it. Ya the current version and situation surrounding it is a bit confusing. I mean ok do it, but release the ** when its actually done and does something. Right now its just a massive resource hog and while I'm very pretty and the room is very cool, it serves no purpose. Conceptually though I love it and I'm looking forward to the day its all in working order with the station walking around stuff. It adds a lot of badly needed atmosphere and social potential and call me a nerd but I play as much for the killing as I do for the people I me and friends I make in Eve. As for the whole Plex, transaction, store thing.. I just have to say that as a Vanity store I'm find with it, but you start selling skill points, revamps, items you can't get in game and anything else that gives players with money an advantage.. well.. it would be severly disapointing to see CCP sell out like that and it would have very unfortunate effects on Eve Online.
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:36:00 - [49] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 10/08/2011 14:39:00 Edited by: Lu''Marat on 10/08/2011 14:38:42 Edited by: Lu''Marat on 10/08/2011 14:37:57 Originally by: Tippia Trust me, if I troll, you'll know ità In this case, though, I'm simply calling the OP out on his trolling. Actually, Tippia, let me disagree with you here for a moment. What it comes down to with you is that you typically lace your actual arguments with just enough patronizing arrogance to ensure that whoever you are talking to is eventually goaded into shallow arguments and descends into arguing minor points and semantics rather than their core issue. And while I do applaud you for your high level of performance with this, it remains beyond doubt that trolling comes in a wide variety of shades and you, lady, are well included in that ballpark. So, you are not a troll because you disagree with the OP, you are a troll because you are being an a about it. @OP: In my opinion, the general forum does not so much exist as a catch-all for topics that didn't quite fit the other forums, but more as a place where everybody stops by regardless of interests and which thus serves as a catch-all for those people who are just here for the bull**, rather than actual debate. Because obviously, that's not so funny in a forum where only those people are around who care about the topic at hand. And just to back up your argument a little: There is a huge distinction between 1) people who want to address an issue, back up their argument with facts, throw in some suggestions for improvement, and are willing to consider differing opinions, and between 2) people who keep filling thread after thread with snide remarks, bitter sarcasm and just general disrespect. Now I don't think anyone has a problem with 1), but sadly ever since Incarna we have been having a nauseating abundance of 2) and a near-absence of 1). I do think it is getting a lot better lately, though. Maybe it really does get old after a while. Hang in there, buddy.
Nova Kira Ashes Against The Grain	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:52:00 - [50] So the best way to counter these so-called "crythreads" is to make your own crythread. Charming. Please explain why customers expressing concern about errors, glitches, bugs and broken mechanics in a game that WE pay for is classified as crying. As it is, hybrids are far and away the worst weapons in the game - they do not compare to the other types at all. This needs to be addressed and fixed, yet CCP didn't even touch on that topic in their latest expansion. I still encounter Z axis errors and CQ glitches. The Character Recustomization glitching is so bad that I can't recustomize half the time. We aren't complaining just to complain, we're complaining about legitimate problems in the game that renders such features near-worthless.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Lu'Marat So, you are not a troll because you disagree with the OP, you are a troll because you are being an a about it. àbut being an ass about it is not what makes a troll ù trolling is posting contrarian and infuriating stuff just to get people's hackles up. I take a contrarian position when I feel someone hasn't provided any kind of substance or foundation for their claims (which, granted, infuriates trolls). What confuses people, I think, is that I occasionally do this when people bring up points where I agree with the fundamental issue, but not with the way it is being presented. Think of it as a kind of "I don't want my point of view to be associated with these silly arguments ù please come up with better ones". People tend to assume that just because I question their arguments, I disagree with their point, and then go off and worsen their arguments even further by providing all manners of straw men and ad hominems based on the assumption that I don't agree with the underlying issueà Quote: Now I don't think anyone has a problem with 1), but sadly ever since Incarna we have been having a nauseating abundance of 2) and a near-absence of 1). àand I'd say that a lot of that is caused by CCP not responding to the type-1 posts (whereas type-2 posts occasionally get at least some kind of reaction), and by various white-knighting trolls treating those posts as if they were type 2 to the point where the type-1 posters give up and just go for type-2 becauseà why bother when the result is the same? Quote:** Oh and, [à] Haha. We both know that's not the same thing, thank you. The generalisation is much the same: "it's your own fault if you're crying." It's not that they aren't the same thing ù they are ù it's just that both generalisations are utterly stupid. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Tippia Quote: in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness That is not a fact, no. in fact it is. It is enough to new person to simply visit Eve forums and find that Eve is dieing, everything is broken and people unsub. After this "first experience" no one will even try to login because "game is **ty". And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing. This is result of you forum warriors work for Eve. Thanks to you! Wrong once again. This is CCP's doing by making a ** up of their game by filling it with game breaking bugs and badly implemented features. problem is: You see most of these problems after spending some time in the game. And 99% of gamers even don't notice about most of a problems forum whiners speak of So when CCP makes game worse "inside it" you prevent other people to even take a look to the game because of your selfishness. And who does worst job here?
Brenya Perircle	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:59:00 - [53] Edited by: Brenya Perircle on 10/08/2011 14:59:46 Only two pages? Shadowfoot you really need to cry harder. As they say, mo' tears mo' trolls. By the way, I thought the mark of a successful MMO was how fast crappy threads like this disappeared from the front page. Not very fast for Eve it seems :)
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Shadowfoot As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, and their server logs has shown consistent addition of players- successful game. Wow. Who's your insider who gave you these logs? CCP sure is leaking like a sieve these daysà Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game.... Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Thornat Originally by: LittleTerror Originally by: jackaloped Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread. +stuff I actually like the whole walking in stations stuff, I think that is really cool and I hope one day I can actually board someones ships to either greet them or kill them in first person combat. However I really dislike CCP's introduction of more micro transactions, that's what **es me off because the way I see it going is it will become a game for the rich s. Like just wait till they start offering skill remaps for a plex and I reckon that will happen soon. So just because someone has more money than me they can skill faster than me +1 on that I'm in the same boat. I personally love the in station stuff, at least conceptually and Im glad they are persuing it. Ya the current version and situation surrounding it is a bit confusing. I mean ok do it, but release the ** when its actually done and does something. Right now its just a massive resource hog and while I'm very pretty and the room is very cool, it serves no purpose. Conceptually though I love it and I'm looking forward to the day its all in working order with the station walking around stuff. It adds a lot of badly needed atmosphere and social potential and call me a nerd but I play as much for the killing as I do for the people I me and friends I make in Eve...... This I do not understand. You can talk to your friends over comms now. Do you think it will be more "social" when you can talk over comms while looking at a computer avatar instead of a computer spaceship? The functionality of incarna is to walk in stations. We have that. They can put different back drops in for where we walk. They can make it so we see others walking around too. But the gameplay is still double click walking.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:10:00 - [56] Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 15:11:05 Originally by: Cipher Jones Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. What? The server logs? I think you need to have your client checked because it's doing things it's not supposed to doà Quote: Really? Did you seriously ask that question? Since he used some mythical server logs (that he doesn't have access to unless someone inside CCP was giving them to him) as proof for an increase in new players at a time when the server population has been trending downwards for half a year, yes. I seriously question his sourcesà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 15:11:05 Originally by: Cipher Jones Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. What? The server logs? I think you need to have your client checked because it's doing things it's not supposed to doà Quote: Really? Did you seriously ask that question? Since he used some mythical server logs (that he doesn't have access to unless someone inside CCP was giving them to him) as proof for an increase in new players at a time when the server population has been trending downwards for half a year, yes. I seriously question his sourcesà You can see the new players. If you don't understand that you are truly quite daft. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Cipher Jones Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game.... Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow. well. i don't like it but my corp gets new members almost every day... and most of them are n00bs few days old..... So i agree with you here. However forum warriors don't login so they don't see new people at all. And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt"
CARB0N FIBER	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:17:00 - [59] suck my hairy.....................
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:23:00 - [60] Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 15:24:49 Originally by: Cipher Jones You can see the new players. àbut not the server logs, which is what the OP refers to as evidence. Quote: If you don't understand that you are truly quite daft. àbut not quite as daft as you are if you don't understand that the claim the OP made was pulled straight out of his ass. Originally by: Miss Rabblt And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt" àwhich in this case makes sense, since he claims to be privy to information that is not available to normal players. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:26:00 - [61] Originally by: Tippia àbut being an ass about it is not what makes a troll ù trolling is posting contrarian and infuriating stuff just to get people's hackles up. Hmm well to me trolling is when somebody actively steers a discussion away from reasonable debate. Whether that's by posting contrary and infuriating stuff or posting in a contrary and infuriating way is largely the same in my book. Although, admitted, it's not always easy to see whether the latter is done intentional or not. Quote: What confuses people, I think, is that I occasionally do this when people bring up points where I agree with the fundamental issue, but not with the way it is being presented. Think of it as a kind of "I don't want my point of view to be associated with these silly arguments ù please come up with better ones". People tend to assume that just because I question their arguments, I disagree with their point, and then go off and worsen their arguments even further by providing all manners of straw men and ad hominems based on the assumption that I don't agree with the underlying issueà Oh, I share the basic sentiment. But why not simply provide better arguments yourself, rather than just poking holes? As for CCP not responding when people try to argue properly, that's true to some point I guess, but of course you also have the problem of trolls barging into serious threads and turning them into rubbish, again. So I think it's more a combination of CCP somewhat lacking in the response department and the playerbase being a little hyperactive in tearing-apart whatever CCP does say. I mean, right now working in CCP's community relations department is quite high on my list of scary jobs I'd rather not do... Quote: "it's your own fault if you're crying." It's not that they aren't the same thing ù they are ù it's just that both generalisations are utterly stupid. Yes. But the original point was not "this is all your fault for complaining" but it was "filling thread after thread with complaints is not helping and just makes you more miserable". At least that's how I read it.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:29:00 - [62] Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 15:30:53 Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 15:30:14 Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Cipher Jones Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game.... Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow. well. i don't like it but my corp gets new members almost every day... and most of them are n00bs few days old..... So i agree with you here. However forum warriors don't login so they don't see new people at all. And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt" Train up your reading comprehension guys. The claim was that the population of the game is increasing due to the new players, not simply that there are some new players (with no consideration of whether they are present in sufficient numbers to balance out those who are leaving). The comparison to WoW as a game that is losing players makes this clear as do his own comments a little further down the first page. But then, you knew that anyway.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:33:00 - [63] Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 15:30:14 Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Cipher Jones Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game.... Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow. well. i don't like it but my corp gets new members almost every day... and most of them are n00bs few days old..... So i agree with you here. However forum warriors don't login so they don't see new people at all. And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt" Train up your reading comprehension guys. The claim was that the population of the game is increasing due to the new players, not simply that there are some new players (with no consideration of whether they are present in sufficient numbers to balance out those who are leaving). The comparison to WoW as a game that is losing players makes this clear as do his own comments a little further down the first page. But then, you knew that anyway. OP made an edit which changes his argument slightly. Sweet pickles is excellent. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:38:00 - [64] Originally by: Lu'Marat Oh, I share the basic sentiment. But why not simply provide better arguments yourself, rather than just poking holes? Because, as mentioned, I don't want my point of view to be associated with the silly arguments made. Those are saved for when the same issue (inevitably) comes up in a different thread, and where they have been further honed by discovering the holes and straw men produced by theà less well-arguedà version of the discussion. As for CCP not responding when people try to argue properly, that's true to some point I guess, but of course you also have the problem of trolls barging into serious threads and turning them into rubbish, again. So I think it's more a combination of CCP somewhat lacking in the response department and the playerbase being a little hyperactive in tearing-apart whatever CCP does say. I mean, right now working in CCP's community relations department is quite high on my list of scary jobs I'd rather not do... Quote: Yes. But the original point was not "this is all your fault for complaining" but it was "filling thread after thread with complaints is not helping and just makes you more miserable". At least that's how I read it. I read it as ôyou're the one creating the unhappinessö, since that is what he said, and since he contrasted it against the developers being the ones who create the unhappiness. Making other (possibly new) players unhappy was something that came up later ù the original point was that the devs were completely blameless making people unhappy and for making them express that unhappiness. Unconditionally putting all of that on the player is very much akin to saying it's the victim of a beating that is responsible for the beating. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:57:00 - [65] Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 16:03:02 Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 15:59:38 Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 10/08/2011 15:30:14 Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Cipher Jones Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game.... Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow. well. i don't like it but my corp gets new members almost every day... and most of them are n00bs few days old..... So i agree with you here. However forum warriors don't login so they don't see new people at all. And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt" Train up your reading comprehension guys. The claim was that the population of the game is increasing due to the new players, not simply that there are some new players (with no consideration of whether they are present in sufficient numbers to balance out those who are leaving). The comparison to WoW as a game that is losing players makes this clear as do his own comments a little further down the first page. But then, you knew that anyway. OP made an edit which changes his argument slightly. Sweet pickles is excellent. Now his argument is just plain crap (well, even more so than before). Success for a game is defined in number of new players rotating through regardless of retention OR decline in absolute numbers? Frankly bizarre. Edit - In any case, your comments were directed at a response to a quote of the original version. Edit 2 - I'm just going to have to quote the new version as I am still finding it hard to believe someon could have such a fixed idea that they won't even allow acceptance that their key point was wrong to inform a change in their conclusions. Quote: As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, eventhough eve-offline showed active player decline(more mature players)- successful game.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.10 16:31:00 - [66] Originally by: Shadowfoot It seems to me like you are playing forums. i guess people like you are enjoying destroying england in riots right now. This is an extraordinarily ignorant remark, the asininity of which disinclines the reader to read any further. Developers use forums to gauge opinion. They're aware that it's only a subsection of opinion, but it is nonetheless of value to them. If lots of people are **ed off on the forums, it's because they're upset with the way the game is going. That in itself is a valuable datum to CCP. If people were to decide to abstain from expressing their opinions on the forums, however negative, there would be no point to them, and CCP would likely shut them down. *** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Lord Wiggin Gallente Furian Necromongers	Posted - 2011.08.10 16:47:00 - [67] What the OP fails to understand is. Unlike most companies you deal with, CCP does not give refunds. Many people are on 6 month subs. I discontinued all three accounts, and still have months left. Have not decided whether to renew or not at this point. If I cancel my phone service, I get a refund.... Oh and crashing the server and losing people's ships is priceless CCP... This space reserved...
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.10 16:54:00 - [68] Quote: If I cancel my phone service, I get a refund.... ROFL. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Valei Khurelem	Posted - 2011.08.10 16:56:00 - [69] Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/08/2011 16:56:29 Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/08/2011 16:56:13 Originally by: Lord Wiggin What the OP fails to understand is. Unlike most companies you deal with, CCP does not give refunds. Many people are on 6 month subs. I discontinued all three accounts, and still have months left. Have not decided whether to renew or not at this point. If I cancel my phone service, I get a refund.... Oh and crashing the server and losing people's ships is priceless CCP... The only reason that games companies do not offer refunds for games is because they can get away with it since all our governments are too senile and stupid to enforce a law on something they don't understand, that is why I can also get away with saying this on the internet. Honestly expressing my beliefs and opinions is not trolling
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.10 16:57:00 - [70] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 12:11:22 Originally by: Shadowfoot Unlike people like you who joined game in 2010. I seen eve grow from 1-2k primetime to todays 40k's. Unlike someone who hasn't been paying attention, I've seen EVE grow to 55k at prime times only to have it shrink back to 40à Ditto. IÆd add that this is a particularly significant piece of data since there is historically an increase in numbers immediately following a new release. In fact CCP Zulu predicted back in May that the increase for Incarna would be substantially greater than previous releases. Instead a decrease. That makes the drop much more significant than if the drop in numbers wasnÆt associated with a release. To the OP: If an exchange and discussion of concerns disturbs you regarding EVE, you should find yourself a nice comfortable support group and limit your discussions with them. EVE is not about comfort and neither are its forums. CCP does something great, weÆre going to tell them that. They do something disastrous, weÆre going to tell them that too. And if theyÆre about to do something disastrous, weÆre going to tell them in hopes they clue up and donÆt do it. -Windjammer
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:12:00 - [71] All I'm sayin' is... ______________________ "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)
Trainwreck McGee	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:13:00 - [72] Another QQ about QQ'ing thread These are becoming more common then actual QQ threads OP you are part of the ****ing problem so STFU and GTFO
Lili Lu	Posted - 2011.08.10 18:25:00 - [73] Edited by: Lili Lu on 10/08/2011 18:25:43 What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP have you answered the critique of your attempt to speak from authority? That is the allegation that you are a player who bought his character in 2010? I may have skipped where you addressed this, because I would rather play the game than read every post in this entire thread. However, even though I would rather play the game, I have not spared CCP my criticism of changes and failures to fix things since I started in 2006 (with my own rolled character btw that had **** for sp because that is what you started with back then). You fail to understand that playing the game and critiquing CCP are not mutually exclusive. In fact it shows an incredible amount of love and concern for the game to engage in the criticism. Many changes have occurred both before and since you started in 2010, and unfortunatley much of those are trending toward a loss of what it was that made this game so special. So frankly, don't create a thread where you whine about the opinions of other players that have loved this game far longer than you. They are doing CCP more of a service to decry the poor implementation of Incarna and the possiblity of whoring the game out to the new market fashion of P2W, than you are doing with your pathetic attempt to white knight CCP's increasing greed.
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.08.10 18:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Shadowfoot Edited by: Shadowfoot on 10/08/2011 12:15:39 I am really tired of coming to general forum and having to sift through your cry-posts just to find a good normal post to read. Then don't. At least for me any post with any form of real content is "a normal post". I may or may not agree what is said in it, but it is still someones opinion. --- This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.08.10 21:40:00 - [75] Originally by: Lili Lu What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP have you answered the critique of your attempt to speak from authority? That is the allegation that you are a player who bought his character in 2010? I may have skipped where you addressed this, because I would rather play the game than read every post in this entire thread. However, even though I would rather play the game, I have not spared CCP my criticism of changes and failures to fix things since I started in 2006 (with my own rolled character btw that had **** for sp because that is what you started with back then). You fail to understand that playing the game and critiquing CCP are not mutually exclusive. In fact it shows an incredible amount of love and concern for the game to engage in the criticism. Many changes have occurred both before and since you started in 2010, and unfortunatley much of those are trending toward a loss of what it was that made this game so special. So frankly, don't create a thread where you whine about the opinions of other players that have loved this game far longer than you. They are doing CCP more of a service to decry the poor implementation of Incarna and the possiblity of whoring the game out to the new market fashion of P2W, than you are doing with your pathetic attempt to white knight CCP's increasing greed. My god, that's the most BS I've seen in a long time. I agree with the OP. This sub-forum has gotten way out of control and the majority of threads being posted now are nothing more than 'Hate, Doom and Gloom' type of threads. Actually they're nothing more than failed attempt's by trolls flashing their little Epeens while trying to look superior. This sub-forum section is actually a joke now compared to all of the other sub-forums. Not to mention it's known as being 'Troll Central' and the majority of players posting in this thread are also known 'Troll Posters'. None of you trolls own this game. You only rent it. None of you trolls work for CCP, so all of your supposed knowledge of what CCP is supposed to do is just more BS. If you don't like this game, no need to post disgruntled troll threads. Just move on to something else. No one here will miss you at all, except maybe your fellow troll mates. The OP is correct and posting this thread in this sub-forum seems to have baited a lot of known trolls.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.10 23:54:00 - [76] Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Originally by: Lili Lu What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP have you answered the critique of your attempt to speak from authority? That is the allegation that you are a player who bought his character in 2010? I may have skipped where you addressed this, because I would rather play the game than read every post in this entire thread. However, even though I would rather play the game, I have not spared CCP my criticism of changes and failures to fix things since I started in 2006 (with my own rolled character btw that had **** for sp because that is what you started with back then). You fail to understand that playing the game and critiquing CCP are not mutually exclusive. In fact it shows an incredible amount of love and concern for the game to engage in the criticism. Many changes have occurred both before and since you started in 2010, and unfortunatley much of those are trending toward a loss of what it was that made this game so special. So frankly, don't create a thread where you whine about the opinions of other players that have loved this game far longer than you. They are doing CCP more of a service to decry the poor implementation of Incarna and the possiblity of whoring the game out to the new market fashion of P2W, than you are doing with your pathetic attempt to white knight CCP's increasing greed. My god, that's the most BS I've seen in a long time. I agree with the OP. This sub-forum has gotten way out of control and the majority of threads being posted now are nothing more than 'Hate, Doom and Gloom' type of threads. Actually they're nothing more than failed attempt's by trolls flashing their little Epeens while trying to look superior. This sub-forum section is actually a joke now compared to all of the other sub-forums. Not to mention it's known as being 'Troll Central' and the majority of players posting in this thread are also known 'Troll Posters'. None of you trolls own this game. You only rent it. None of you trolls work for CCP, so all of your supposed knowledge of what CCP is supposed to do is just more BS. If you don't like this game, no need to post disgruntled troll threads. Just move on to something else. No one here will miss you at all, except maybe your fellow troll mates. The OP is correct and posting this thread in this sub-forum seems to have baited a lot of known trolls. By gosh youÆre right. YouÆve made me see the light. EVE will go on forever no matter what CCP does. CCP is always right and will always make the decisions that will make EVE a gigantic success. I mean, CCP certainly doesnÆt need any sort of feedback from their customers and thereÆs no way theyÆd want it unless itÆs positive feedback. Howeverààà..I could be wrong. I only rent this game.
Dub Step Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us	Posted - 2011.08.11 00:14:00 - [77] If we had new content worthy of discussion then perhaps people would have something to discuss other than fail patches and poor featureless expansions designed to take our money and give nothing of value in return.
Cave Lord	Posted - 2011.08.11 00:20:00 - [78] Originally by: Shadowfoot Edited by: Shadowfoot on 10/08/2011 12:15:39 Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. It seems to me like you are playing forums. i guess people like you are enjoying destroying england in riots right now. Whats up with this CSM minutes. or something that has to do with response from CCP. Why dont you let CCP make their game, and you yourself just go and play it. You dont get paid for design/programming. So why do you keep arguing about aspects like AUR/Plex, p2w. etc. If EvE will become not what you want then just find another game. As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, eventhough eve-offline showed active player decline(more mature players)- successful game. I am really tired of coming to general forum and having to sift through your cry-posts just to find a good normal post to read. A good example of what people like you "protesters" can do to a game has an example - World of warcraft. They lost 1mil subscribers, and warcraftrealms show 2.2mil players total playing it(unlike 12mil advertised) You also make developers to think that they are gods and creators(which they are not) by making "balancing" or "suggesting" threads. they are just CCP employees who work for living, just like everyone else do. Cliffs: Forums = end of eve prediction (miserable future for eve) - makes people lose smile Game = very active 1 server universe, where alot of action is going on, people login, have fun and logoff. Make general forums cry-free. If you have something to suggest, go to suggestion forums. Thanks Hey, I'm sick of it too. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the facts: CCP goofed on a number of fronts, continues to goof AFTER Incarna (CSM meeting notes anyone?, even after they promised better public communication), and the absolutely-horrid NEX store. Imagine a needle constantly poking you on the underside of your foot. That's what the Nex store is to EVE, the community, and CCP. ...and CCP leadership is hell-bent on dumping this load of garbage in our very homes (CQ) Each and every time we dock. So yea, I'll post and rage and complain. Heck, I was telling people the problems with the NEX store about a month before it was made live and no one cared until it was slapped in their face. And now I'm still telling people about it and many are just content to have a stinky pile of garbage from someone else festering in their living room. In fact, some have gone so far as to BRAG how horrid their garbage pile is (Monocle). I Used to pay for an awesome game. A game I told my friends about all the time. A game that still continues to fascinate me, capture my imagination, and keep me coming back to the forums for as long as my account is still active. But I can not and will not support the NEX store. It's a sick corruption of the PLEX system (which I could only swallow because it was meant to combat RMT). No other game comes close to what EVE can do, and so I join the crowd of folks who want EVE to continue to grow, mature, and become the greatest MMORPG of all time. The NEX store represents 2 steps backwards for every one step forward for EVE development. All the resources that could be given to players to develop and create clothes is instead, on CCP developers who could be making EVE a better game. We can design corp logo's. We can design medals. So why does CCP suddenly feel we are going to make clothes that look like Pen1s's? (Time-To-Peni$) It's a load of market crap and we all know it. Am I a bitter vet? Oh yes. Do I still have forgiveness in my heart? You bet! Will I pay to play to pay? What the heck? Will I hold people to their promises? You had better believe it. ...and I can not bring myself to play an awesome game that is run by greedy liars who have no respect for their players. -Cave
Valentina Valentia Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.11 00:28:00 - [79] Originally by: Shadowfoot Edited by: Shadowfoot on 10/08/2011 12:15:39 Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. It seems to me like you are playing forums. i guess people like you are enjoying destroying england in riots right now. Whats up with this CSM minutes. or something that has to do with response from CCP. Why dont you let CCP make their game, and you yourself just go and play it. You dont get paid for design/programming. So why do you keep arguing about aspects like AUR/Plex, p2w. etc. If EvE will become not what you want then just find another game. As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, eventhough eve-offline showed active player decline(more mature players)- successful game. I am really tired of coming to general forum and having to sift through your cry-posts just to find a good normal post to read. A good example of what people like you "protesters" can do to a game has an example - World of warcraft. They lost 1mil subscribers, and warcraftrealms show 2.2mil players total playing it(unlike 12mil advertised) You also make developers to think that they are gods and creators(which they are not) by making "balancing" or "suggesting" threads. they are just CCP employees who work for living, just like everyone else do. Cliffs: Forums = end of eve prediction (miserable future for eve) - makes people lose smile Game = very active 1 server universe, where alot of action is going on, people login, have fun and logoff. Make general forums cry-free. If you have something to suggest, go to suggestion forums. Thanks ...wha? sorry I am AFK...
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:35:00 - [80] Wait, there's a game? I thought this was the game.
Illwill Bill Svea Crusaders	Posted - 2011.08.11 16:56:00 - [81] Originally by: Shadowfoot Edited by: Shadowfoot on 10/08/2011 12:15:39 Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. It seems to me like you are playing forums. i guess people like you are enjoying destroying england in riots right now. Actually, the forums being more entertaining than the game was one of my reasons for unsubbing. Now let me be bitter in peace.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.11 17:03:00 - [82] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 11/08/2011 17:03:55 Quote: What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP's point is that it is till fun to log on to the game and play. I agree, others do not. There is nothing Tippia can post that can change that. So as far as debating, ol Tippy Canoe can "score" all she wants, the OP still has a point that is valid for hundreds of thousands of people. The best part about it is that it ****es a lot of people off that some of us still like the game. I have had to up my exercise game due to all the cookies dipped in tears lately. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.11 17:29:00 - [83] Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 11/08/2011 17:03:55 Quote: What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP's point is that it is till fun to log on to the game and play. I agree, others do not. There is nothing Tippia can post that can change that. So as far as debating, ol Tippy Canoe can "score" all she wants, the OP still has a point that is valid for hundreds of thousands of people. That's not the OP's point at all, as well you know. It may be a premise in his argument but it is not the point he is trying to make and nor is it a point that there has been much disagreement with. The OP's argument is feeble and it goes to show a sad lack of intellectual discrimination that you are willing to back absolutely anything that anyone says as long as it is against criticising CCP, even when it is clearly nonsensical. There are legitimate arguments to be put on both sides but this is not one of them.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.11 19:32:00 - [84] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 11/08/2011 17:03:55 Quote: What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP's point is that it is till fun to log on to the game and play. I agree, others do not. There is nothing Tippia can post that can change that. So as far as debating, ol Tippy Canoe can "score" all she wants, the OP still has a point that is valid for hundreds of thousands of people. That's not the OP's point at all, as well you know. It may be a premise in his argument but it is not the point he is trying to make and nor is it a point that there has been much disagreement with. The OP's argument is feeble and it goes to show a sad lack of intellectual discrimination that you are willing to back absolutely anything that anyone says as long as it is against criticising CCP, even when it is clearly nonsensical. There are legitimate arguments to be put on both sides but this is not one of them. I criticize CCP all the time. Quote: Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.11 21:02:00 - [85] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 11/08/2011 17:03:55 Quote: What's the score now? Tippia 20 OP 0? OP's point is that it is till fun to log on to the game and play. I agree, others do not. There is nothing Tippia can post that can change that. So as far as debating, ol Tippy Canoe can "score" all she wants, the OP still has a point that is valid for hundreds of thousands of people. That's not the OP's point at all, as well you know. It may be a premise in his argument but it is not the point he is trying to make and nor is it a point that there has been much disagreement with. The OP's argument is feeble and it goes to show a sad lack of intellectual discrimination that you are willing to back absolutely anything that anyone says as long as it is against criticising CCP, even when it is clearly nonsensical. There are legitimate arguments to be put on both sides but this is not one of them. I criticize CCP all the time. Quote: Cant you just get off forums for a sec. and go play and ENJOY the game. Note the difference between that last quote and your previous statement of the OP's point. It is possible to accept that the game is still worth playing without accepting that people should not voice their concerns. You, for instance, are obviously perfectly capable of posting and enjoying the game.
Tron Flux Caldari Midnite Madness	Posted - 2011.08.12 05:04:00 - [86] This thread needs more Akita T.

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