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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
   |
Posted - 2012.10.04 01:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
Even with this skill implemented, the longer you travel, the longer it takes |
Lord Zim
1580
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 02:01:00 -
[122] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Why is traveling long distances supposed to be a pain in the ass?
Because, space is vast, and moving things around isn't supposed to be something you do on a complete whim.
Souisa wrote:Regardless, with this skill implemented, the longer you travel, the longer it takes
And without this skill implemented, the longer you travel, the longer it takes. You'll still get there without doing any work whatsoever (as if 2 clicks pr jump is "a lot of work").
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 02:06:00 -
[123] - Quote
The pros far outweigh the cons of this skill, there arent really any cons |
Lord Zim
1580
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 02:07:00 -
[124] - Quote
There aren't any pros.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 02:08:00 -
[125] - Quote
Haha |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 02:37:00 -
[126] - Quote
Anyway, the benefit is the ability to improve the autopilot and additional choice for players |
Lord Zim
1580
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 07:17:00 -
[127] - Quote
Buffing AFK gameplay is not a benefit.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 10:36:00 -
[128] - Quote
Sure it is :) We are talking about giving an alternative to manual travel. It might not get you there as fast, but you will still arrive in a timely manner |
Lord Zim
1581
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 11:15:00 -
[129] - Quote
No, we're not giving an alternative to manual travel, it already exists. And you do arrive "in a timely manner". It's working just fine as it is.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 13:52:00 -
[130] - Quote
The problem is travel is demotivating, i dont know if its intended or not and what the reason is. But a better auto-pilot would do any EVE player good |
Lord Zim
1581
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 13:55:00 -
[131] - Quote
If you find travel to be "demotivating", then maybe EVE isn't the game for you.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 13:57:00 -
[132] - Quote
What i mean is its not enjoyable nor convenient, there is room for improvement |
Lord Zim
1583
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 13:59:00 -
[133] - Quote
Activate autopilot, watch movie. Voila, enjoyable and convenient.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:02:00 -
[134] - Quote
Why should it take so long? |
Lord Zim
1583
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:05:00 -
[135] - Quote
Because space is big and you don't want to put in the effort to make it go quicker.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
593
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:17:00 -
[136] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Why should it take so long?
Time Sinks.
They are important for maintaining a sense of size and scope in a game.
I have been in games where pressure was successful in creating shortcuts, and methods of easy travel.
They dumb down the game.
In the case of EVE, they have two specific flaws:
Devalues manual piloting by making AFK piloting 2/3 more efficient than previous.
(At max skill I believe it was that the warp distance would shrink from 15KM to 5KM)
Automating game play, especially in a manner that reduces travel time designed to be significant, effectively trivializes travel to a degree.
Remove PvP opportunities for ships intended to have risk.
That freighter / hauler / <frequently long distance traveling ship here> was designed and balanced with this travel liability as a factor.
Gameplay perspective, it is slow to give potential attackers time to consider it, scan it, and plan ambushes for it.
THAT is one of the big reasons high value cargo is often manually piloted. By trading in that effort, you are able to protect your ship and cargo far better.
Add in actual support teamwork for defense and webbed aligning, and your big ship can move very quickly.
I see no reason to devalue team play for the convenience of significantly AFK pilots.
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata)
Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:34:00 -
[137] - Quote
Hello Nikk,
Traveling a long distance will still take longer than traveling a short distance, and you will never be able to beat a guy who travels manually. An additional skill means additional choice, isnt that the opposite of dumbing down? Ganking will probably become more profitable, as people with the skill at level 4 or 5 might be inclined to auto-pilot more and with higher value cargo. It doesent devalue any activity since everyone has equal access to the skill, everyone stands to benefit. Basically its an improvement to travel and there wont be any loosers |
Lord Zim
1583
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
I want to be able to train up a skill to instantly move my stuff around in new eden. This way I can buy something cheap in jita and sell it expensively in amarr. Since it's a skill which we could train, surely it wouldn't be dumbing down the game or homogenizing the hisec economy.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Alexila Quant
Strategic Acquisitions Group
8
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Why would anyone train this?
Alternatively: why do we need to encourage more AFK play by making it more efficient?
Also, having autopilot warp that close to jump range would do nothing but encourage macro courier mission runners. We all saw what happened when that one ship could AP to 0. (forget the name of it) |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:49:00 -
[140] - Quote
To be honest i think the current system encourages botting more. The more tedius an action becomes the bigger incentive for botting |
Lord Zim
1583
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:53:00 -
[141] - Quote
If travelling is something which you find boring enough to bot, then maybe EVE isn't for you.
I'm sure CCP Sreegs would help you with that problem soon enough.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:55:00 -
[142] - Quote
What kind of argument is that? :)
If something is repetitive and boring, people have a bigger incentive to bot it |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
99
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:57:00 -
[143] - Quote
lol
This idea is popping up quite often recently..
And somehow bad people keep thinking its a good idea.
Autopilot being slow is an intended feature. You're getting risk/slowness in exchange for being lazy. |
Lord Zim
1583
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:59:00 -
[144] - Quote
Travelling isn't that boring. If you really find travelling boring enough to bot, then maybe EVE isn't for you.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
1734
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 14:59:00 -
[145] - Quote
Souisa wrote:If something is repetitive and boring, people have a bigger incentive to bot it
While shorter autopilot warp-to distance would cause fewer people to risk botting, the net effect of it on Eve is the same. This is why CCP didn't implement a "make my mining lasers activate automatically when I'm in range of an asteroid" feature in order to fix mining bots.
One does not "fix" botting by building bot functionality into the game.
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:07:00 -
[146] - Quote
Please provide some specifics, in what area of the game would this skill have a negative impact? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
1734
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:09:00 -
[147] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Please provide some specifics, in what area of the game would this skill have a negative impact?
I (or any other scrub with a minimally-trained hauling alt) could get my freighter from Jita to Rens several times in an evening without any manual piloting on my part. Do you know what that would do to the Eve economy, regional market differences, and space feeling big and varied?
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Lord Zim
1583
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:10:00 -
[148] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Please provide some specifics, in what area of the game would this skill have a negative impact?
Nikk Narrel wrote:In the case of EVE, they have two specific flaws:
Devalues manual piloting by making AFK piloting 2/3 more efficient than previous.
(At max skill I believe it was that the warp distance would shrink from 15KM to 5KM)
Automating game play, especially in a manner that reduces travel time designed to be significant, effectively trivializes travel to a degree.
Remove PvP opportunities for ships intended to have risk.
That freighter / hauler / <frequently long distance traveling ship here> was designed and balanced with this travel liability as a factor.
Gameplay perspective, it is slow to give potential attackers time to consider it, scan it, and plan ambushes for it.
THAT is one of the big reasons high value cargo is often manually piloted. By trading in that effort, you are able to protect your ship and cargo far better.
Add in actual support teamwork for defense and webbed aligning, and your big ship can move very quickly.
I'll also add even further homogenization of the eve economy to that list.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:21:00 -
[149] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Souisa wrote:Please provide some specifics, in what area of the game would this skill have a negative impact? I (or any other scrub with a minimally-trained hauling alt) could get my freighter from Jita to Rens several times in an evening without any manual piloting on my part. Do you know what that would do to the Eve economy, regional market differences, and space feeling big and varied?
Nothing really changes as you can still do that today, prices might even out a bit, but isnt that what the trade hubs are for? People want steady prices, and the haulers and manufacturers are there to deliver it. Actually this might be a buff to low-sec, or at least expand the scope and feel of the world as peoples "home" area increases as travel becomes slighty more convenient if you invest the skills in it. For most people the world probably seems small today, because they pretty much live in the same systems and cant be bothered to go far from their home due to the current means of travel |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
1734
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:29:00 -
[150] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Nothing really changes as you can still do that today, prices might even out a bit, but isnt that what the trade hubs are for?
No, trade hubs are centralized trading hot-spots with usually above-source prices (to pay for transport) and high competition. They are also usually localized, which makes cross-region trading an actual profession. For example, the Stabber Fleet Issue is cheaper in Rens than in Jita because of either the giant time spent AFK hauling SFIs Rens to Jita slowly, or because of the manual effort spent hauling them quickly. Enabling quick, effortless hauling would get more people to do it, raising competition, homogenizing prices and making trade hubs more boring.
Ed: another possible effect is for most minor trade hubs (Hek?) to die out, as people don't have to spend forever to get to a major trade hub via autopilot anymore.
Souisa wrote:People want steady prices, and the haulers and manufacturers are there to deliver it.
If so, why not argue for having every station service available in every station in unlimited numbers? It offers the most convenience for people and manufacturers, and will give the ~steadiest prices ever~.
Souisa wrote:Actually this might even be a buff to low-sec, and expand peoples "home" area as travel becomes slighty more convenient if you invest the skills for it
This skill would not impact low/null sec at all, as anyone who doesn't get caught by enemy ships while autopiloting the remaining 2.5 km to jump range (at Autopilot Operation V), will get caught on the other side while aligning. It is impossible to safely haul any goods through low/null using the autopilot.
What I really meant by "why would anyone train this?" was "why would anyone who actually plays Eve by interacting with their ships train this?", or "why would anyone except hisec AFK players train this?"
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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