Originally by: Aelius

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Edited by: Aelius on 19/08/2011 12:38:57

I just need to reply again to this thread...

I will give a hypothetical situation, with and without local.

With Local:

You "Zagdul" come to an hostile system... asa you enter system you notice X amounts of hostiles in local. You press D-Scan and see a hulk fleet and some cans.

You rapidly warp to the belts... but too late... they all warped out before u could get there.

You wait in system, with the hope that they resume the mining... but nothing happens... BUT you waited too long... soon you and your 6 buddies look at local and see a 20 hostiles entering system... and they don't have hulks...

You are forced to flee without engage (because you aren't stupid to go 7 vs 20)

End result = 0 ships lost to PVP, and no fight.


Without Local:

You "Zagdul" come to an hostile system... asa you enter system you notice X amounts of hostiles on D-Scan and see a hulk fleet and some cans.

You rapidly warp to the belts... Yep they are still there mining away, because they hadn't see it coming.
You gank some hulks and get some pods.

You wait in system, with the hope that more action arrives... soon you and your 6 buddies using D-Scan notice more hostiles arrive with combat ships to avenge they fallen comrades... You count around 10 ships (they think you are only 3 because you only used 3 ships to gank the hulks)

Using superior tactics you and your buddies are able to get into a fight 10 VS 7... and because you have a better fleet (you had Falcon present that they didn't knew it was there) you are able to get a good victory over them.

End result: Several Hulks and pods destroyed, a few more combat ships destroyed on both parts and a good fight that you managed to win.

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Originally by: Ingvar Angst

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.

You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.

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Wow, I must have been doing it wrong back when I ratted. My ship was always moving, which would have made it harder for someone to decloak and bump right away. Of course, I'd still have to align and warp and hope I wasn't scrammed, but hey, that's like life in wormholes. You never know when it's coming and hope you can stay alert enough to react when it does.

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Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.

You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.

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So what your saying is that you were not paying attention to your overview, you were no where near being aligned to anything and you are also saying that ships that jump a Cyno have 0 delay from the time that you see them to the time that they can lock you?


U fail to.
Get better at eve.

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Originally by: Aelius

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.

You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.

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Why the hell do i need a cyno and bumping??! a few bombers and some Tengus can do just the same or any other combination of covert ops... hell i will scramble you so fast that even aligned you will have a very hard time to get out before the point hits you.

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Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

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AND.... RAT IN A PVP CAPABLE SHIP!!!!

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Originally by: Aelius

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Originally by: Aelius

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.

You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.

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Why the hell do i need a cyno and bumping??! a few bombers and some Tengus can do just the same or any other combination of covert ops... hell i will scramble you so fast that even aligned you will have a very hard time to get out before the point hits you.

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Because that's what the cool kids do, and also it's easier to slip in a single ship.

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And BTW... YES you have ways to avoid this, if you are smart... just plant a few cans/probes around your ship at a considerable distance to uncloak that ship. or use the asteroids to your advantage to do the same... and watch D-Scan. Use some stabs on your PVE setup (0.0 rats are butter compared to sleepers so you can do it)... Ofcourse none of the above is 100% secure... in comparison with the 100% secure all seeing Local right?!

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Originally by: Ingvar Angst

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving.
Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off.
D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.

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I think the bolded part shows where the real problem lies, and it's not the fault of local, afk cloaking, whatever.

You don't want to adapt. You want easy comfort mode, in null sec.

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Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

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Originally by: Jenn aSide

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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The problem is not that it would be a certain suicide to rat in null without local, but that there's no good reason to increase your chance of losing a ship over only slight increase in profit over highsec. Not to mention wh's are more profitable and if suddenly all null is without local, you might as well go there, as they would become safer.

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Well said. That's the main point.

It's not that I don't see things ever changing, hell, GOOD changes would be great. Life in null isn't supposed to be safe or even easy.

But there is a point when you go to far. Delayed local in null sec while not changing the insane amounts you can make in the safety of hi-sec or the myriad ways you can already gank null sec ratters would have a chilling effect on null sec. That's not an improvement at all.

Me, I'd adjust just like I have after the anom nerf, but there are already to few targets in null to begin with.

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NOT WELL SAID


This is complete bull****. Gathering together and defending both your space and each other would improve the game. If you want more isk and less community by all means go to empire, if less people like you lived in null I might be arsed to go take some myself under new mechanics.


And less supercarriers online ofc...

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Originally by: Aelius

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Originally by: Ingvar Angst

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Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara

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Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving.
Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off.
D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.

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I think the bolded part shows where the real problem lies, and it's not the fault of local, afk cloaking, whatever.

You don't want to adapt. You want easy comfort mode, in null sec.

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Correct... people just want null to be high isk, low risk and everything done to correct that is bad... Personally i wouldn't mind that CCP removed the bounties on highsec missions and make them lowsec/null exclusive.

Plus 0.0 on high risk (no local) would make the rewards must more valuable since if you are lucky to find a named spawn, the profit would be much greater from the drops. Not to mention the profit from mining ABC on 0.0.

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Originally by: Aelius

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So let me see what you want:

1st- You want to make Isk in 0.0 (considered a dangerous part of EVE).

2nd- But you don't want it to be dangerous, because you don't want to die.

3rd- Local provides the n¦2, so you don't want it removed.

4th- "Evolve" and "Adapt" aren't words in your dictionary.

5th- You are a carebear, but you think you are cooler than your highsec counterparts because you operate in nullsec.

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