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Spaceman Jack
   |
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:22:00 -
[1]
By making it MORE attractive
and NOT making everything else LESS attractive
Tis all thank you
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:25:00 -
[2]
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.
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Ramalamadindong
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:26:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Spaceman Jack
By making it MORE attractive
and NOT making everything else LESS attractive
Tis all thank you
Everyone in hisec will be bulldozed into nullsec where 150 million sp bittervets, who fly supercaps, are waiting for you.
I'd leave now if I were you.  |
Spaceman Jack
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:29:00 -
[4]
They did NOT make it more attractive. Sure you can make money out there, but the mechanics fail and the last SOV sucked major balls. Its a total pan in the ass.
But I guess if you suck at building... destroy?
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Everyone in hisec will be bulldozed into nullsec where 150 million sp bittervets, who fly supercaps, are waiting for you.
I'd leave now if I were you.
You only need massive amounts of income if you plan on buying a supercap. Hisec can easily support people who buy battleships and anything smaller, even if they spend another 5 years nerfing the **** out of it.
My prediction for the future:
nullsec players- "lolz thanks for the ISK"
hisec players- "What is this nullsec you speak of?"
So pretty much business as usual. |
Ramalamadindong
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bane Necran
My prediction for the future:
nullsec players- "lolz thanks for the ISK"
hisec players- "What is this nullsec you speak of?"
So pretty much business as usual.
what makes you think CCP will fail to get more people into nullsec. They can easily force people to go there by nerfing hisec mission payouts, loot drops, lp rewards, added taxation for station services, nerf asteroid belts, WHs etc and giving null a massive buff.
The hisec crowd won't have a say in the direction CCP decide to take their game. The CSM will see to that. Eve is changing. Adapt or die.
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:51:00 -
[7]
You must be new. CCP has been adding more ISK faucets to 0.0 and nerfing hisec for years now, and it has accomplished nothing, yet they continue to think next time will work.
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:54:00 -
[8]
I'm mostly a high sec carebear. I go into low and null a lot, but I don't PvP. It's usually just for travel.
I love the fact that null and low sec (and high sec wars) exists because it means people will lose their ships and I make more profits via manufacturing new ships for people to blow up. It's a beautiful cycle. But I digress...
Over the weekend I took my hand at playing around in Null. I got my first pew-pew ship into my Alliance's null sec region, and tried to check out making isk there. I was making roughly the same isk per hour as running incursions or running missions before the LP and/or salvage is added in. And lets not consider time/isk lost due to a red showing up (I probably shouldn't be in something expensive) and more time/isk loss due to CTAs/defense of space that is expected of me.
I talked with people who lived in Null (not my alliance) about my goals in EvE and why I am in Null vs Empire, etc. Pretty much everyone gave me the same advice "There is no reason for you to be in null."
I am going to give this null sec thing a legitimate and honest try, but it really looks like there is no reason for me to be in null sec given the current state of null vs high sec. Now I can't speak for everybody, but for me, I don't believe the move to null sec is going to be a good move for me.
But I swear I will give living in null an honest try.
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Oh'Freddled Gruntbuggly
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
They can easily force people to go there by nerfing hisec mission payouts, loot drops, lp rewards, added taxation for station services, nerf asteroid belts, WHs etc and giving null a massive buff.
Still wouldn't work. Even without all of that there are still better things to do in hi-sec than you'd find in null. I've been about six years in EVE and only ever visit null as a tourist - and even then not that often. Once a year maybe I take a holiday in null, to see if it's changed at all, and it never does. The only way to buff it would be to provide vastly more of it. So much so that the majority of systems remain forever unclaimed.
That's the big difference. In hi-sec one can build up from scratch to a multi-billion per month income without having to join some mega-alliance. If null-sec consisted largely of out-of-the-way systems with low productivity that could be colonised by independent and small corps, you'd find more people out there. Such systems would have to be, like 50 jumps or so away from anything interesting, or maybe located beyond maximum jump distance such that only locally-made carriers can enter. Something halfway between null-sec as it is now and wormholes.
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Dusty Warrior
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:58:00 -
[10]
How to make null more attractive?
Someone posted what I think would be an awesome thing to do.
"Remove all sov mechanics."
I think a little refinement along with removing sov would attract more people. Yes... I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers!
I also think once the need to join the bull**** political bot alliances is removed as a way to get to 0.0, more people will become interested in carving out their own little place in 0.0
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kesshisan
I swear I will give living in null an honest try.
Everyone should give it a shot, if for no reason other than to know what they're talking about in hisec vs nullsec arguments. Very often you see nullsec supporters who've spent no time in hisec, and vise versa.
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Ad'Hakim Tahous
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.
THIS! The only little ray of hope may come from the current round of brainstorming around Smallholdings.... in which small groups can hide, set up some sort of small station, and still earn significant ISK outside of the wealth concentrators run by Alliance leaders.
CCP just doesn't seem to get it! People might indeed like to try out 0.0, but they have absolutely no intention of becoming meat-shield wage *****s for Alliance Directors. For the moment these folks move to w-space.... all the benefits with none of the politics.
It isn't 0.0's capacity to generate more ISK that may attract new pilots, its how that ISK will go to those new pilots rather than be concentrated in the hands of those running 0.0!
Of course, since the successful introduction of w-space pilots did have a challenging and profitable volume of space to explore and settle..... and since that clearly doesn't benefit 0.0 space both the CSM and CCP seem poised to swat w-space with the nerf bat....
Want more people in 0.0? Find ways for them to earn ISK without contributing to the Alliance treasuries! "... Build it and they will come...."
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Maken Cheese
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:28:00 -
[13]
What I don't get is... why do people want nullsec to become more populated? Isn't one of the main complaints about null the large lag-inducing blobs? Trying to get more people out there will only make the problem worse.
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Maken Cheese
What I don't get is... why do people want nullsec to become more populated? Isn't one of the main complaints about null the large lag-inducing blobs? Trying to get more people out there will only make the problem worse.
The hardware can handle lots of people doing things on different 'grids' much easier than it can them all on the same one. When people are blobbing they're all on the same one, but if the same amount is just ratting or whatever it's no big deal.
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Dusty Warrior
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maken Cheese
What I don't get is... why do people want nullsec to become more populated? Isn't one of the main complaints about null the large lag-inducing blobs? Trying to get more people out there will only make the problem worse.
I don't know... might should ask the "CSM" -AKA- "Null sec holders" why they want to nerf wh/lo/hi secs to push more people into their systems. Maybe they don't have enough slaves or it could just be they have nobody interested in the whine 0.0 politics produces now days. Maybe... since CCP really is hammering bots as they proclaim and 0.0 alliances are losing that niche they once had when their bots were running strong.
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Maken Cheese
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bane Necran
The hardware can handle lots of people doing things on different 'grids' much easier than it can them all on the same one. When people are blobbing they're all on the same one, but if the same amount is just ratting or whatever it's no big deal.
You missed the point. Higher nullsec population means more people for every gang/cta that forms. Which means more people in every fight, and more soul-crushing lag.
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Ad'Hakim Tahous
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maken Cheese
Originally by: Bane Necran
The hardware can handle lots of people doing things on different 'grids' much easier than it can them all on the same one. When people are blobbing they're all on the same one, but if the same amount is just ratting or whatever it's no big deal.
You missed the point. Higher nullsec population means more people for every gang/cta that forms. Which means more people in every fight, and more soul-crushing lag.
Check out the Features and Ideas Forum: Nullsec Design Specs: Smallholdings.....
If they can make that work, and keep the ISK out of the Alliance Treasuries there might be a ray of hope....
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Lady Zarrina
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:42:00 -
[18]
They really are trying to FUBAR this. I truly hope they are just bored, cause if they putting any thought into this, I am scared.
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maken Cheese
You missed the point. Higher nullsec population means more people for every gang/cta that forms. Which means more people in every fight, and more soul-crushing lag.
I got the point, it's just that more being able to doesn't necessarily mean they will. I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of the NC showed up to defend it.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:50:00 -
[20]
Ever since I started the game, all I've heard about is how great null sec is. Can't be arsed myself to bother with mega-groups... Change hi-sec all you want - I *still* can't see any reason to go to null, especially now, when there's what? Two competing groups?
Bah!
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:57:00 -
[21]
Move to Null, become nameless nobody in the ISK printing machine, declare yourself important. Game Over. |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.08.23 18:11:00 -
[22]
Part of making it more attractive is making it so those currently there cannot force you out or force you be become a slave.
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I'l Duce
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.23 18:32:00 -
[23]
Attractive and accessible sounds sexy.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.23 18:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.
Well THERES yer problem, making high sec worthless is just gonna **** off the ppl in high sec an make them find new games
--------
Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Ad'Hakim Tahous
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Ever since I started the game, all I've heard about is how great null sec is. Can't be arsed myself to bother with mega-groups... Change hi-sec all you want - I *still* can't see any reason to go to null, especially now, when there's what? Two competing groups?
Bah!
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Why CSM / CCP is grabbing for the nerf bat ==>> Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
|
Ad'Hakim Tahous
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Move to Null, become nameless nobody in the ISK printing machine, declare yourself important. Game Over.
..... AND THIS!!
Dear CCP: It isn't all about having 0.0 produce more ISK, it is all - lll - llllllll about the supermajority of the ISK flowing into the hands of a tiny group of people.....
All the things you want people to do in 0.0 happen every day in w-space. Difference between 0.0 and w-space?.... take a good look at the CSM for a clue........
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ad'Hakim Tahous
since the successful introduction of w-space pilots did have a challenging and profitable volume of space to explore and settle..... and since that clearly doesn't benefit 0.0 space both the CSM and CCP seem poised to swat w-space with the nerf bat....
Having someplace to go to earn decent isk, get decent fights and not have to worry about someone's 23,000 other friends has appealed to about 3% of the player base. These people are the ones who wanted to try out 0.0, but had zero-point-**** interest in null-sec politics/bs/fc's...
I predict that "farms and fields" will appeal to another, oh...
3%....
Could be wrong... But I don't think I am.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Russell Casey
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:33:00 -
[28]
If they want more people in null they need to make it more attractive in terms of small-corps and independents actually having a shot out there. Most people who choose highsec over nul don't do it because it's safe, they do it because they and their three small buddies can actually interact and change the landscape with other soloers and small corps the way ccp claims you can do so in null.
|
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Originally by: Bane Necran
My prediction for the future:
nullsec players- "lolz thanks for the ISK"
hisec players- "What is this nullsec you speak of?"
So pretty much business as usual.
what makes you think CCP will fail to get more people into nullsec. They can easily force people to go there by nerfing hisec mission payouts, loot drops, lp rewards, added taxation for station services, nerf asteroid belts, WHs etc and giving null a massive buff.
The hisec crowd won't have a say in the direction CCP decide to take their game. The CSM will see to that. Eve is changing. Adapt or die.
Whatever dude. It takes CCP YEARS to make any type of 'change' and when that happens Mittens and his CSM muppets will be long out of office
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MsValentineWiggin
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Posted - 2011.08.23 22:54:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.
Well THERES yer problem, making high sec worthless is just gonna **** off the ppl in high sec an make them find new games
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Adapt or die.
Funny you say that cause if those 80% of the players decide to leave for other games rather than let CCP push them where they dont want to go, EVE itself will be facing an adapt or die situation
If CCP were to completely eliminate hi-sec, what % of current hi-sec residents would renew after a month in 0.0? 5%? 20%? 10%? It is a small %. CCP can't force anyone to move to 0.0; all they can do is force them to leave hi-sec.
If you and the CCP devs get their way and you significantly reduce CCP's revenue and thus resources, where do you think CCP will cut efforts:
1) DUST 514
2) World Of Twilightwhatever
3) 0.0 development
/snicker
My object all sublime
I shall achieve in time ù
To let the punishment fit the crime ù
The punishment fit the crime;
And make each prisoner pent
Unwillingly represent
A source of innocent merriment!
Of innocent merriment!
The Mikado, Act II
|
Jerry Pepridge
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:05:00 -
[31]
move to null
shoot nerds
stay in highsec
wardec a smaller corp, chest beat in local
_________________________________________________
7 Easy steps |
Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:07:00 -
[32]
Just adding my 0.2 isk perspective from being in a large 0.0 alliance for about a year out of my 6 or so years playing eve.
At first 0.0 was fun. Large scale battles were fun even with some lag, exploration for 6/10 to 10/10 plexes was fun, mining ore I'd never mined before was fun, some gate camping and trying to chase down the rare lonely pvp'er was fun. At first.
Over time, these activities got boring. Over time, the people in 0.0 got more and more on my nerves. Nothing like listening to childish epeening on the forums and in local to get under an older guys skin. CTA's that took 3 or 4 hours only to not shoot a single thing. Scanning down plexes for income got old faster than I thought possible. Hardly any small scale pvp of any kind.
Pretty amazing that for most of my 6 or so years playing, the most fun I have is in high and low sec.
Screw 0.0, screw their politics, screw the childish epeening, and screw the mindnumbing boredom. I'll stay in low for my pvp and high to earn my isk thankyou.
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Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: MsValentineWiggin
If you and the CCP devs get their way and you significantly reduce CCP's revenue and thus resources, where do you think CCP will cut efforts:
You fail at reading and the internets if you think Im on CCP's side in this
--------
Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Anya Ohaya
|
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Olleybear
Nothing like listening to childish epeening on the forums and in local to get under an older guys skin.
COAD is enough to put me off any of the null alliances, and many of the rest.
I don't care if they remove all missions, t2 manufacturing, faction drops and even concord, I'd rather spend the rest of EVE's dying days ratting in a cheap frigate in high/low and giving the finger to the blobs.
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 00:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Dex Ironmind
Balance the sandbox, don't slant it toward null. Isn't the idea of a sandbox to let the players build it. CCP should just give us cool toys to play with in the sandbox. All this NULL-centric focus that has the FIS space team currently occupied seems to resonate of a "herding" mentality. They may say it is not, but that is the only logical conclusion to draw.
CCP... Greyscale ... quit trying to herd us. Give us better toys and content that allow us to play in the sandbox as we see fit.
This is a good argument.
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 01:21:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 01:25:23
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
How to make null more attractive?
Someone posted what I think would be an awesome thing to do.
"Remove all sov mechanics."
I think a little refinement along with removing sov would attract more people. Yes... I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers
They already did this a few times with lowsec, w-space and NPC 0.0.
Anyways, all of this could be solved by removing NPC corps and forcing/allowing hisec players to engage in direct competition over resources and markets, decreasing the vast low-end mineral injection into the world economy and forcing hisec players to choose between fighting over a belt in hisec or fighting over a belt in 0.0 instead of the current "fight over ____ in 0.0 or grind isk 23/7 in hisec". While also limiting the logistic capabilities of 0.0 NPC corp freighter alts to boot, forcing nullsec to be more self-sufficient. |
Pok Nibin
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 01:46:00 -
[37]
Go to null sec. Be a victim.
Come to null sec! Be my victim!
Please. Get real. Eventually when Goonswarm/s****/whatever winds up diddling with themselves, even they may get bored and leave. Then, with all the predators GONE, it might not be STUPID to go out to null sec.
AS it is now, a fool and his money are soon parted, it is stupid to go to null sec to be warp bubbled, robbed and podded. I can't help but think the folks trying to INVITE other players out there to make it more FUN, have an idea of fun the rest of us just don't share. FUN is not getting podded by a sociopathic PLAYER/Corp/Alliance.
Have fun out there, while you can. Even what you do will become mind-numbingly boring. How clever of you.
Please wait as this sig-
nature finishes loading
|
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 01:25:23
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
How to make null more attractive?
Someone posted what I think would be an awesome thing to do.
"Remove all sov mechanics."
I think a little refinement along with removing sov would attract more people. Yes... I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers
They already did this a few times with lowsec, w-space and NPC 0.0.
Anyways, all of this could be solved by removing NPC corps and forcing/allowing hisec players to engage in direct competition over resources and markets, decreasing the vast low-end mineral injection into the world economy and forcing hisec players to choose between fighting over a belt in hisec or fighting over a belt in 0.0 instead of the current "fight over ____ in 0.0 or grind isk 23/7 in hisec". While also limiting the logistic capabilities of 0.0 NPC corp freighter alts to boot, forcing nullsec to be more self-sufficient.
I don't know how you think this would have *any* effect what-so-ever... You've been posting it in every thread. It is *stupid* easy to avoid a war-dec (which is what I'm assuming your talking about) by Corp Hopping. Because of the time it takes to call a vote, put it through, declare war, wait for the warm-up period to end, your *targets* can form a new corp, and leave the wardec'd corp... never actually getting to the whole "war" part.
Until *that* changes, player corps are no different than NPC corps.... Suicide Ganking is the only option atm to perform non-consensual pvp in Hi-Sec.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:22:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 02:25:09
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
I don't know how you think this would have *any* effect what-so-ever... You've been posting it in every thread. It is *stupid* easy to avoid a war-dec (which is what I'm assuming your talking about) by Corp Hopping. Because of the time it takes to call a vote, put it through, declare war, wait for the warm-up period to end, your *targets* can form a new corp, and leave the wardec'd corp... never actually getting to the whole "war" part.
Until *that* changes, player corps are no different than NPC corps.... Suicide Ganking is the only option atm to perform non-consensual pvp in Hi-Sec.
Okay, so kill NPC corps and fix the broken wardec system. Now the two main barriers to players entering nullsec have been fixed, and none of the ore or ice have been taken away. |
Jerry Pepridge
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 02:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Pok Nibin
Go to null sec. Be a victim.
Come to null sec! Be my victim!
Please. Get real. Eventually when Goonswarm/s****/whatever winds up diddling with themselves, even they may get bored and leave. Then, with all the predators GONE, it might not be STUPID to go out to null sec.
AS it is now, a fool and his money are soon parted, it is stupid to go to null sec to be warp bubbled, robbed and podded. I can't help but think the folks trying to INVITE other players out there to make it more FUN, have an idea of fun the rest of us just don't share. FUN is not getting podded by a sociopathic PLAYER/Corp/Alliance.
Have fun out there, while you can. Even what you do will become mind-numbingly boring. How clever of you.
I lol when i get podded. saves me a trip back.
_________________________________________________
7 Easy steps |
Ira Theos
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ad'Hakim Tahous
Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.
THIS! The only little ray of hope may come from the current round of brainstorming around Smallholdings.... in which small groups can hide, set up some sort of small station, and still earn significant ISK outside of the wealth concentrators run by Alliance leaders.
CCP just doesn't seem to get it! People might indeed like to try out 0.0, but they have absolutely no intention of becoming meat-shield wage *****s for Alliance Directors. For the moment these folks move to w-space.... all the benefits with none of the politics.
It isn't 0.0's capacity to generate more ISK that may attract new pilots, its how that ISK will go to those new pilots rather than be concentrated in the hands of those running 0.0!
Of course, since the successful introduction of w-space pilots did have a challenging and profitable volume of space to explore and settle..... and since that clearly doesn't benefit 0.0 space both the CSM and CCP seem poised to swat w-space with the nerf bat....
Want more people in 0.0? Find ways for them to earn ISK without contributing to the Alliance treasuries! "... Build it and they will come...."
*****
QFT !
|
Dusty Warrior
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 03:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 01:25:23
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
How to make null more attractive?
Someone posted what I think would be an awesome thing to do.
"Remove all sov mechanics."
I think a little refinement along with removing sov would attract more people. Yes... I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers
They already did this a few times with lowsec, w-space and NPC 0.0.
Anyways, all of this could be solved by removing NPC corps and forcing/allowing hisec players to engage in direct competition over resources and markets, decreasing the vast low-end mineral injection into the world economy and forcing hisec players to choose between fighting over a belt in hisec or fighting over a belt in 0.0 instead of the current "fight over ____ in 0.0 or grind isk 23/7 in hisec". While also limiting the logistic capabilities of 0.0 NPC corp freighter alts to boot, forcing nullsec to be more self-sufficient.
I'm not at all sure removing NPCs would be a great idea. IMO this would allow predators to eat the "true" noobs alive hindering CCPs rentention of new accounts/players.
You know as well as I it would be like throwing chum into shark infested waters. The chum being the new player of course. Just a thought.
|
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Okay, so kill NPC corps and fix the broken wardec system. Now the two main barriers to players entering nullsec have been fixed, and none of the ore or ice have been taken away.
LOL! THOSE aren't the "main barrier" into 0.0! The reputations that the 0.0 corps have created for themselves is the barrier!
You think the 3% of the Eve Player base (roughly, according to the last QEN) that lives in WH's couldn't hack it in 0.0? I've got news for you, they *can* and *do* hack it in 0.0! Just not the "sov" 0.0.
CCP can tweak, and change and manipulate all they want, there is *always* going to be players who have no interest or motivation to play Sov War games...
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Pok Nibin
Go to null sec. Be a victim.
Come to null sec! Be my victim!
Please. Get real. Eventually when Goonswarm/s****/whatever winds up diddling with themselves, even they may get bored and leave.
why? theyre pretty much ruining er I mean running the show right now lol
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Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Amber Villaneous
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
They can easily force people to go there
But what they cannot do is force people to renew their subs.
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Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 04:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
They can easily force people to go there
But what they cannot do is force people to renew their subs.
This. They can push towards 0.0 all they want. How long does the game keep going when 80% of the players leave?
CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game.
SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
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Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:00:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 01:25:23
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
How to make null more attractive?
Someone posted what I think would be an awesome thing to do.
"Remove all sov mechanics."
I think a little refinement along with removing sov would attract more people. Yes... I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers
They already did this a few times with lowsec, w-space and NPC 0.0.
Anyways, all of this could be solved by removing NPC corps and forcing/allowing hisec players to engage in direct competition over resources and markets, decreasing the vast low-end mineral injection into the world economy and forcing hisec players to choose between fighting over a belt in hisec or fighting over a belt in 0.0 instead of the current "fight over ____ in 0.0 or grind isk 23/7 in hisec". While also limiting the logistic capabilities of 0.0 NPC corp freighter alts to boot, forcing nullsec to be more self-sufficient.
I'm not at all sure removing NPCs would be a great idea. IMO this would allow predators to eat the "true" noobs alive hindering CCPs rentention of new accounts/players.
You know as well as I it would be like throwing chum into shark infested waters. The chum being the new player of course. Just a thought.
Hm, true. I remember in a few earlier revisions of this proposal I was all for letting trial accounts/rookies have access to NPC corps until they can join EVE society proper. NPC corps should be restricted only for new characters at best, really. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:10:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 05:14:37
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 05:13:21
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
LOL! THOSE aren't the "main barrier" into 0.0! The reputations that the 0.0 corps have created for themselves is the barrier!
You think the 3% of the Eve Player base (roughly, according to the last QEN) that lives in WH's couldn't hack it in 0.0? I've got news for you, they *can* and *do* hack it in 0.0! Just not the "sov" 0.0.
Who mentioned wormholes? Take a deep breath and remember that we're talking about the removal of NPC corps here.
Quote:
CCP can tweak, and change and manipulate all they want, there is *always* going to be players who have no interest or motivation to play Sov War games...
True, that's why removing NPC corps (and fixing the broken wardec system) is a good idea as it allows highsec miners recourse to actively fight for resources in highsec beyond undercutting prices, letting lowend mins and ice be subject to the same market forces that drive the rest of EVE. This addition of incurred cost in both ships & time to hisec life makes nullsec industry more fiscally alluring, while taking nothing away resource-wise from the region (WH and hisec pos fuel access is still safe). |
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:24:00 -
[49]
lol yeah remove the npc corps so the fun griefers can wardec anyone they want and cause them to leave the game lol
man theres so many ppl tryin to kill this game lately
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Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Si Omega
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:24:00 -
[50]
Quote:
True, that's why removing NPC corps (and fixing the broken wardec system) is a good idea as it allows highsec miners recourse to actively fight for resources in highsec
When are people gonna learn that NOT everyone wants to fight to play? I'd really like to see just how many carebears are REALLY in Eve that DO NOT fight or want to. Perhaps the very existence of PvP is what creates the opportunities for players to come in and NOT play PvP by mining etc.
Consider this ephiphany. If carebears are forced to PvP, they'll just go elsewhere.
I love to PvP. I just can't be bothered doing it for no reason. Seriously, if null continues to be same ol' same ol' that it's become and high becomes the new warzone (blob the Hulkers instead yeah?) then I would just move on too.
And NO, you cannot have my stuff and the door can stay just like it was when I walked through it dammit!
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Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:35:00 -
[51]
The number of ppl living in high sec is said to be 80% of the total population of the game.
--------
Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Si Omega
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:37:00 -
[52]
Well hey. How about this for an original idea then.
Quote:
By making it MORE attractive
and NOT making everything else LESS attractive
Ne'er a truer word spoken imho.
TL;DR >> Don't nerf it, buff it...
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Si Omega
Quote:
True, that's why removing NPC corps (and fixing the broken wardec system) is a good idea as it allows highsec miners recourse to actively fight for resources in highsec
When are people gonna learn that NOT everyone wants to fight to play? I'd really like to see just how many carebears are REALLY in Eve that DO NOT fight or want to. Perhaps the very existence of PvP is what creates the opportunities for players to come in and NOT play PvP by mining etc.
EVE is a deeply interconnected game where all actions by all players affect others no matter how miniscule.
Collectively, the existence of NPC corps forces small-mid scale industrialists out of 0.0 by making them unnecessary for the day-to-day functioning of 0.0 alliances. Way easier to just jump freighter rock bottom-sold lowends from hisec then bringing in your mining character, who can't compete with the NPC corp members fiscally because you have to attend CTAs, dock up from hostiles, inevitably replace ships, etc. while they mine ice/veld 23/7.
This thread is about "bringing people in to nullsec", and increasing the incurred costs of highsec life would make that happen, and better balance the game as a whole.
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:44:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Si Omega
Well hey. How about this for an original idea then.
Quote:
By making it MORE attractive
and NOT making everything else LESS attractive
Ne'er a truer word spoken imho.
TL;DR >> Don't nerf it, buff it...
That was already attempted with the original Dominion anomalies. The massive increase in isk availability in all regions of sov-holding 0.0 that wound up getting smacked with the nerf bat didn't bring enough people in. So no buffing is not the answer. |
Si Omega
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:48:00 -
[55]
So you restrict the ability of miners to mine by, as is being suggested by CCP, shifting ALL high-ends to null. You don't need to turn high into a warzone to do that.
Even then, problem still remains that CONTROL of resources is left for the blobbosses to hand out as candy to anyone stupid enough to believe they are fighting for a cause.
The minerals will be the new tech moon goo, nothing changes.
Alliance monopolies need to be busted and profits distributed so a grunt can become a rich grunt IF HE WANTS TO.
|
Ad'Hakim Tahous
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Si Omega
Quote:
True, that's why removing NPC corps (and fixing the broken wardec system) is a good idea as it allows highsec miners recourse to actively fight for resources in highsec
When are people gonna learn that NOT everyone wants to fight to play? I'd really like to see just how many carebears are REALLY in Eve that DO NOT fight or want to. Perhaps the very existence of PvP is what creates the opportunities for players to come in and NOT play PvP by mining etc.
EVE is a deeply interconnected game where all actions by all players affect others no matter how miniscule.
Collectively, the existence of NPC corps forces small-mid scale industrialists out of 0.0 by making them unnecessary for the day-to-day functioning of 0.0 alliances. Way easier to just jump freighter rock bottom-sold lowends from hisec then bringing in your mining character, who can't compete with the NPC corp members fiscally because you have to attend CTAs, dock up from hostiles, inevitably replace ships, etc. while they mine ice/veld 23/7.
This thread is about "bringing people in to nullsec", and increasing the incurred costs of highsec life would make that happen, and better balance the game as a whole.
Sorry, but no deal. I will NOT become a 3rd class, meat-shield wage-w***e for Alliance Directors with multi-billion ISK treasuries, delusions of greatness, and seats on the CSM.
So long as 0.0 is geared so that servitude = playability, and "reward" = ship replacement, this region of space is and will remain of no interest to many pilots. This didn't happen through game mechanics... look to those who run the Alliances and see what they have made....
|
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 05:59:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 24/08/2011 06:00:52
All theyre gonna do, all they seem to WANT to do is push and control the players to do what THEY want.
wonder if they realize were here cause this, NOW is what WE want.
Push us too hard an we'll leave.
But given the "**** the players we know whats best for EVE" attitude, it looks like they WANT ppl to leave. It looks lees like "**** the players..." and more "play the way WE want or get out."
as for the CSM, High sec needs representation too. Or we get squeezed out of the game by the 0.0 *******s like we're seeing now.
--------
CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game.
SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 06:05:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 06:06:17
Originally by: Ad'Hakim Tahous
Sorry, but no deal. I will NOT become a 3rd class, meat-shield wage-w***e for Alliance Directors with multi-billion ISK treasuries, delusions of greatness, and seats on the CSM.
So long as 0.0 is geared so that servitude = playability, and "reward" = ship replacement, this region of space is and will remain of no interest to many pilots. This didn't happen through game mechanics... look to those who run the Alliances and see what they have made....
How is removing NPC corps going to force you into 0.0 man? I mean, if you have no problem making 7 mil isk an hour mining ice because the system is geared to pay you as little ISK for your work as possible so those megalomanical plutocrat 0.0 Alliance leaders you hate can fuel their million billion POS towers, more power to you. I was just throwing out ideas that would make high/null industries more evenly distributed.
|
Ad'Hakim Tahous
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 06:46:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 24/08/2011 06:06:17
Originally by: Ad'Hakim Tahous
Sorry, but no deal. I will NOT become a 3rd class, meat-shield wage-w***e for Alliance Directors with multi-billion ISK treasuries, delusions of greatness, and seats on the CSM.
So long as 0.0 is geared so that servitude = playability, and "reward" = ship replacement, this region of space is and will remain of no interest to many pilots. This didn't happen through game mechanics... look to those who run the Alliances and see what they have made....
How is removing NPC corps going to force you into 0.0 man? I mean, if you have no problem making 7 mil isk an hour mining ice because the system is geared to pay you as little ISK for your work as possible so those megalomanical plutocrat 0.0 Alliance leaders you hate can fuel their million billion POS towers, more power to you. I was just throwing out ideas that would make high/null industries more evenly distributed.
W/ respect pilot, my game play is my own... on my terms... in corps of my choosing.... and I'm not alone...
Take a good look at the growing numbers of people (pure Carebears, Worm-holers, and ex-Alliance pilots alike) who are posting on ALL of these threads... pilots fed up with the leadership of the big Alliances and what they have made of 0.0
I do so hope that the Devs are taking note.
|
fgft Athonille
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 07:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Okay, so kill NPC corps and fix the broken wardec system. Now the two main barriers to players entering nullsec have been fixed, and none of the ore or ice have been taken away.
LOL! THOSE aren't the "main barrier" into 0.0! The reputations that the 0.0 corps have created for themselves is the barrier!
You think the 3% of the Eve Player base (roughly, according to the last QEN) that lives in WH's couldn't hack it in 0.0? I've got news for you, they *can* and *do* hack it in 0.0! Just not the "sov" 0.0.
CCP can tweak, and change and manipulate all they want, there is *always* going to be players who have no interest or motivation to play Sov War games...
wormholes is just as dirty bear infested as nullsec
just because your space is slightly dangerous doesnt change the fact you are all dirty bears.
Originally by: Skippermonkey
keep trying and you can be an hero just like fgft Athonille
Originally by: Singeaboot Raj
Tbh i am beginning to see the win - it's the haircut, makes people take notice.
|
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 10:24:00 -
[61]
Originally by: fgft Athonille
wormholes is just as dirty bear infested as nullsec
just because your space is slightly dangerous doesnt change the fact you are all dirty bears.
Why does someone that chooses to play the game different make u mad bro? |
Kaethe Kollwitz
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 10:38:00 -
[62]
The balance of the game is 90% correct as it stands now:
wormholes are perfect - they fill a gap for people wanting null without politics and serfdom.
0.0 is fine - the people that want be there are in fact already there!
high sec is fine - see 0.0
the only area of space that could use some love is low sec. It has none of the benefits and all of the risks, and whenever i visit it seems to be a largely deserted wasteland.
want to change something? Change low sec. |
The Old Chap
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:07:00 -
[63]
WILL PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO SEND ME TO NULLSEC!
I've been there and it's not that special.
I'm quite happy where I am, thank you very much. |
Ramalamadindong
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Bane Necran
You must be new. CCP has been adding more ISK faucets to 0.0 and nerfing hisec for years now, and it has accomplished nothing, yet they continue to think next time will work.
Which is why all 'carebears' should be worried. This time there will be a more concerted effort to nerf hisec by everyone involved. You say that all previous nerfs have failed so CCP will have to introduce some extremely harsh nerfs to completely safe isk making in hisec.
I don't any resaon why CCP would preserve your 'carebear heaven' and your optimism is ill founded. |
Kaethe Kollwitz
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ramalamadindong
I don't any resaon why CCP would preserve your 'carebear heaven' and your optimism is ill founded.
barring the almost certain subscription losses if they overdo it? Straight after monoacle-gate?
|
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:05:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 24/08/2011 12:18:11
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Who mentioned wormholes? Take a deep breath and remember that we're talking about the removal of NPC corps here.
True, that's why removing NPC corps (and fixing the broken wardec system) is a good idea as it allows highsec miners recourse to actively fight for resources in highsec beyond undercutting prices, letting lowend mins and ice be subject to the same market forces that drive the rest of EVE. This addition of incurred cost in both ships & time to hisec life makes nullsec industry more fiscally alluring, while taking nothing away resource-wise from the region (WH and hisec pos fuel access is still safe).
#1 - Smallholdings already exist, they're called wormholes. My point was that only 3% (approx) utilize them. Making 0.0 more like wormholes will appeal to approx the same % (or less, because of the bull**** you have to go through and the reputations 0.0 corps/alliances have built for themselves over the years).
#2 - CCP have been *begged* to change war-dec mechanics for years as well. Without "locking" players to their corp (i.e. - unable to drop during a war-dec) any changes to war-dec mechanics will be futile. Locking players to corps during a war-dec would then become (without a doubt) "pay-to-grief".
#3 - Locking players to a dec'd corporation would probably (opinion here) be BAD for the economy as more and more hi-sec corps reduced, limited or changed their activities to manage their risk. Even a Freighter can be alpha'd before reps can be applied. It would take a bunch, but it's possible.
#4 - (opinion) Doing away with NPC corps would have a far greater negative effect on the economy and player retention as a whole than whatever good it would do for 0.0.
#5 - (opinion) Don't penalize low-sp players (who would be the ones hurt worst with your change) because 0.0 entities can't attract the players they want.
Originally by: fgft Athonille
wormholes is just as dirty bear infested as nullsec
just because your space is slightly dangerous doesnt change the fact you are all dirty bears.
Those anomaly changes in full...Really? *JUST* hi-sec?
|
Junky Juke
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:13:00 -
[67]
The real problem of High sec to null sec migration is that the small dividing line between them, what we call LOW SEC, really sucks! CCP should try do make low sec more rewarding/interesting (not only the actual pirates playing ground). That should push players to stay more often in low sec and occasionally put their nose into null sec. |
Miss Rabblt
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:11:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
I also think once the need to join the bull**** political bot alliances is removed as a way to get to 0.0, more people will become interested in carving out their own little place in 0.0
have never understand why one can even bother about alliance he is in? You are in renting corp. You pay taxes and do your business. Unless you are "pet" of ****ty aliance like IT was in past you don't need to care about alliance. Good alliance always have a bunch of pvp-oriented monkeys from special pvp-alliances and pvp-corps to do political stuff. Carebear is free from it.
|
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:57:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Dusty Warrior
I also think once the need to join the bull**** political bot alliances is removed as a way to get to 0.0, more people will become interested in carving out their own little place in 0.0
have never understand why one can even bother about alliance he is in? You are in renting corp. You pay taxes and do your business. Unless you are "pet" of ****ty aliance like IT was in past you don't need to care about alliance. Good alliance always have a bunch of pvp-oriented monkeys from special pvp-alliances and pvp-corps to do political stuff. Carebear is free from it.
cause what people think of as the promise of 0.0 is they get to get into 0.0 and stake their own claim and build their own empire. It doesnt happen ofc as every system has been claimed, but thats the impression of what they think is the promise.
--------
CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game.
SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. |
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