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CursedAngel	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:09:00 - [1] Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:27:24 Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:20:41 ya know those artifact mission when the 1st place you warp to has a convoy... with lots of big ships.... well i decided to attack one of these... an got my ass handed to me... very fast... i was in a apoc meds- Cap rechargers Lows- 2 kin hards 2 therm hards 1 explo hard 2 large armor reps this ment i was very tanked to teh dmg they where doing, yet my ship died very fast, anyone know what happened??? heres the log (i have to edit the color commands out of teh log before i cna post it... ugggg, itl be here soon) edit: ok i still cant get the thing to post cause i keep gettin an error, screw it.... error- 'ADODB.Command error '800a0d5d' Application uses a value of the wrong type for the current operation. /includes/messageboardFunctions.asp, line 1301'
Weirda	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:14:00 - [2] Originally by: CursedAngel Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:09:54 Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:09:30 ya know those artifact mission when the 1st place you warp to has a convoy... with lots of big ships.... well i decided to attack one of these... an got my ass handed to me... very fast... i was in a apoc meds- Cap rechargers Lows- 2 kin hards 2 therm hards 1 explo hard 2 large armor reps this ment i was very tanked to teh dmg they where doing, yet my ship died very fast, anyone know what happened??? heres the log (i have to edit the color commands out of teh log before i cna post it... ugggg, itl be here soon) Well - whatever the log say, pretty sure that the mission log tell you not to attack the convoy. There are a crapload of faction battleships that will hand you ass to you if you do... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:15:00 - [3] Did you really think you could tank several battleships in your lone, unsupported Apoc?
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:22:00 - [4] Edited by: ManOfHonor on 02/03/2005 20:22:44 iv tanked 3 BSs b4 in a apoc _____________________________ Honor Glory And Strength! Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self (\_/) (^.^) (> <)
CursedAngel	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:24:00 - [5] Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:26:30 there wer alot of ships there, the BS rats where only 250k bounty 3 Merc Overlords 5 Merc Commanders 8 Merc Wingmen yeah it did tell me to not attack... but common! 3 BSs with 250k bountys on em in the middle of nowhere is jus askin to be ganked
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:40:00 - [6] I can probably tell you right now why you died: You had only 4 rechargers in midslots (were they even tech II?), no cap relays in lows, only tons of hardeners. Not enough capacitor to sustain two large reps and guns firing. Try the same mission again, this time with 4 cap recharger IIs in mids, 2 accomodations, 3 hardeners and 2 cap relays in lows. You'll fare a lot better.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.03.02 20:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I can probably tell you right now why you died: You had only 4 rechargers in midslots (were they even tech II?), no cap relays in lows, only tons of hardeners. Not enough capacitor to sustain two large reps and guns firing. Try the same mission again, this time with 4 cap recharger IIs in mids, 2 accomodations, 3 hardeners and 2 cap relays in lows. You'll fare a lot better. oy... cap charger II's? he might go bankrupt like that ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Mira Spellholde	Posted - 2005.03.02 22:11:00 - [8] The mercs do mad damage to the apoc for some reason. I can tank blood raider, gurista and sansha rats no problem (multiple BS, cruiser and frigs all at once) in my apoc, but mercs chew right through me with all hardners and the armor rep going. ----------------- Billboard Evasion Rank(4) SP: 374100/512000
CursedAngel	Posted - 2005.03.02 22:20:00 - [9] Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 22:21:04 my cap never went below 80%, they killed me that fast Mira you think its petitionable because of that? (id love to get my ship back )
vankar	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:16:00 - [10] Originally by: CursedAngel Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:26:30 there wer alot of ships there, the BS rats where only 250k bounty 3 Merc Overlords 5 Merc Commanders 8 Merc Wingmen yeah it did tell me to not attack... but common! 3 BSs with 250k bountys on em in the middle of nowhere is jus askin to be ganked Not sure if it's that exact one, but one angel BS fires a torpedo that does like 1,500 dmg... Happened to me once tanked raven right into low armor, got away though :)

CursedAngel	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:18:00 - [11] Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 23:22:23 Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 23:21:35 mercs aint angels, an the only misisle hittin be wer scourges an piranahas (or however u spell it, sorry im too lazy to check atm) are you sure that wasnt a Citadel torp?? (they all do 1800 dmg base)
Hyey	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:32:00 - [12] There is an angel bs that launches Citadel torpedos? ehh thats a new one on me. Your apoc died due to the overlords using projectiles (I guess thats the problem.) What range did you start at? if you started at like 30km I know why you died... ~~ Hyey I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:37:00 - [13] Edited by: ManOfHonor on 02/03/2005 23:37:59 naaa, no BS has citadels, it was probly a display bug (multiple missiles hit u at same time an the dmg was counted at one hit).. or it wasnt a BS hittin him.. _____________________________ Honor Glory And Strength! Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self (\_/) (^.^) (> <)
CursedAngel	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:40:00 - [14] i was at 60km, with megapulses, infrared, an started tryin to kill the inties, no success... faster than u can blink (slowly) the inties wer on me.... i launched drones, they started pouding the inties... in 10 seconds the cruisers wer on me... in 5 more the BSs started hitting an it was all over... Total Kills- 1 Merc Wingamn Total Looses- 4 named hardners some guns some crystals 1 Apoc
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:45:00 - [15] The mercs are fast and the wingmen do lots of explosive damage. With only 1 explosive hardener I would say the wingmen killed you. I believe they are also able to web and warp scramble which will make you a sitting duck. You might want to check the eve-i stats on these guys before you face them again.
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.03.02 23:58:00 - [16] Edited by: ManOfHonor on 02/03/2005 23:58:16 merc wingmen do 4 explo dmg... with a dmg multiplier of 5 (wtf?) it mighta been them... but thats each of them doing about 4-5 dmg a shot to me including the res... thats not much fr a BS it was probly how many of them there where _____________________________ Honor Glory And Strength! Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self (\_/) (^.^) (> <)
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.03.03 00:04:00 - [17] You won't kill interceptors with mega pulses, despite what Minmatar players will tell you. Mount two siege launchers, keep them loaded with torpedoes. Target an inty, fire off four kinetics or explosives (for Mercenary Wingmen), unlock and forget about it - it'll die soon enough.
Thanit	Posted - 2005.03.03 00:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You won't kill interceptors with mega pulses, despite what Minmatar players will tell you. Mount two siege launchers, keep them loaded with torpedoes. Target an inty, fire off four kinetics or explosives (for Mercenary Wingmen), unlock and forget about it - it'll die soon enough. Sounds correct. I've killed these types of convoys from other factions easy enough before, in a blasterthron. It all depends on setting up for the right damages. (and with apoc and pulses on tanking loogn enough obvioulsy, as your damage isnt that high that you can afford to have a non-durable tank)
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.03.03 00:37:00 - [19] killing ones i find later isnt the prob.... the ship is already dead ;P an like someone said above, the mercs seem to take down Apocs xtra fast fr some reason _____________________________ Honor Glory And Strength! Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self (\_/) (^.^) (> <)
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.03.03 03:47:00 - [20] Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 03/03/2005 03:48:16 Originally by: CursedAngel Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 2005.03.03 03:47:00 there wer alot of ships there, the BS rats where only 250k bounty 3 Merc Overlords 5 Merc Commanders 8 Merc Wingmen yeah it did tell me to not attack... but common! 3 BSs with 250k bountys on em in the middle of nowhere is jus askin to be spanked ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.

diablo	Posted - 2005.03.03 10:41:00 - [21] u used megapulse. All be it good guns, never get too close to something that has 8 wingmen, pound em from 100k plus.use Tacs, and a siege launcher or cruise for the close frigs, get ya drones out also take the frigs first to stop being webbed, then start on the cruisers, then the BS last. then go for the booty. when i attack and the little webbers get with 40k and u can see them MW to you, my arse starts to twich cos i know deep down that if i cant kill the webbers before the cruisers n BS get there im dead. If a bs rat gets less than 70k near me they then hit u, try keep them at 80k to 100k and use either microwave or infareds.
Rex Martell	Posted - 2005.03.03 10:47:00 - [22] Dont know if anybody else is expreienceing the same thing but recently I have noticed that resistance dont always seem to work. I have noticed incidents where even when using 2 x Termal Hardners for a grand total of 80% res NPC Termal Torps still hit for max damage. Anybody else noticed resistance being borked. "The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his"
Meathook	Posted - 2005.03.03 12:59:00 - [23] Originally by: CursedAngel Edited by: CursedAngel on 02/03/2005 20:26:30 there wer alot of ships there, the BS rats where only 250k bounty 3 Merc Overlords 5 Merc Commanders 8 Merc Wingmen yeah it did tell me to not attack... but common! 3 BSs with 250k bountys on em in the middle of nowhere is jus askin to be ganked I have had a storyline mission with that same spawn, and the 250k BS tend to be tricky, cos they usually mwd to you in no time, merc wingmen use warp scramblers and the merc commanders use ab and lasers. Also, the overlord BS use autocannons, which in the most part do explosive dmg, that might be where all the crazy dmg came from since it was your least tanked resistance. I have never tried it in apoc but i think it has to be hard cos they are not that weak against thermal and em damage, plus they are on you so fast it's almost better to have close range setups ________________________________________ "Parental advisory: Explicit typos"
Zaintiraris	Posted - 2005.03.03 14:21:00 - [24] Mercenary wingmen are the bane to all pilots. They are very fast, scramble/web you, and I've never used anything but torps on them cuz if I don't, I'm doomed. Always make them your FIRST priority. Cuz they suck. --- Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.
Icarus Starkiller	Posted - 2005.03.03 14:51:00 - [25] I also fly an Apoc, but have had little problem with these sorts of spawns in Realspace. I drop in at 60, make a BM, turn tail and run (or select an object beyond them to run to). If I turned tail I'll drop back in on my first BM at 60, make a second, then turn tail, wait for something to aggro or I'll target an inty and engage while trudging away in my tank toward a distant object. Anything that can scramble or web gets within 30 and I'm outta there. I come back to that second point at 60, drop a BM, rinse, & repeat. USU the faster ships will keep after you while the big ones will stop chasing. Then you are free to kill the little guys and come back for the bigger ships at your leisure.
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2005.03.03 15:39:00 - [26] Hmmm. lots of theory, some of doesn't really agree with the eve-i data. It is possilbe the eve-i is wrong but how about a quick and dirty estimate using it? Using the normalized damage numbers given for each of the NPCs and figuring for the full spawn gun damage: EM - 186.9 hp/sec Exp - 61.5 hp/sec Kin - 102.8 hp/sec The - 425.4 hp/sec They also use missiles Commanders =scourgex1.15x8=862.5 Kin per volley Overlords - scourgex1.2x3= 540 Kin per volley Wingmen - piranhax8 = 600 Exp per volley I am not sure what the reload time is on the missile I will assume 12 sec although I think the wingmen shoot faster. so 116.9 Kin /sec and 50 Exp /sec So the raw damage is 186.9 EM/sec 111.4 EXP/sec 219.6 KIN/sec 425.5 THE/sec Assume shield man 4 and no hardeners and ignore recharge - 186.9 EM/sec x 1.0=186.9 111.4 EXP/sec x .4=44.6 219.6 KIN/sec x .6=131.8 425.5 THE/sec x .8=340.4 = 703.6 hp/sec 4770/703.6 = 6.8 sec until shield failure Now on to the armor - I don't remember the stacking penalty for hardeners so I will be optimistic and ignore it 186.9 EM/sec x .4=74.75 111.4 EXP/sec x .8 x .5 =44.6 219.6 KIN/sec x .75 x .5 x .5=41.2 425.5 THE/sec x .65 x .5 x .5= 69.1 = 229.7 hp/sec If I remember correctly a standard large rep is 600 hp in 12.75 sec lvl 5 rep skill and a L acco is 720. so the repair rate is around 94 - 113 hp sec. Assuming hull upgrades 5 you have 6000 hp 6000 / (229.7 - 94) = 44 secs 6000 / (229.7 -113) = 51 secs Structure has no resistance to anything and won't last more than a few secs. I admit this is a quick and dirty estimate with lots of assumptions. However I think most of my assumptions favor the player. I think the wingman fire missiles faster than my estimate. I think there is stacking penality on hardeners that would make them less effective. Also the damage from the guns is just normalized. If you can make the npcs miss you will take less damage, but considering the big sig radius of an Apoc and that the wingman have -75% webbers and the Overlords -90% webbers I think it safe that they will hit pretty well once they get in range. I think you just got owned by the NPCs doing "NO RISK" missions.
CursedAngel	Posted - 2005.03.03 20:15:00 - [27] Edited by: CursedAngel on 03/03/2005 20:15:47 yeah... im never attacking THOSE guys again... an megapulses with infrared crystals have a opt range of 9.2km an a fallof of 40km .... soo shootin at them at 100km isnt a option (mostly cause i cannot target them...) iv bought a new apoc tho... jus gotta go jump in it an find s'more guns.... WTB named Mega pulses for a newb whos specialty is suicide attacks.... (hehehe)
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.03.03 22:31:00 - [28] Edited by: Kinsy on 03/03/2005 22:31:47 Ill throw my hat in with the poster on this one. I had a similar problem and also lost my Apoc, with 3x50% Kinetic, Thermal and Explosive hardeners faster than you can say OMGWTFBBQ on this one. I checked my client logs and the damage on them just didnt correlate to what happened. Petitioned and was refused. And I use 2xSiege, 2xTachs and 4xMegapulse. They appear to do so much damage your client can't log 2/3rds of it. Damage Done: 727.30 Damage Received: 2726.80 I have 4372 Sheild hitpoints, 5760 Armor hitpoints, and 4887 Hull hitpoints. So yea
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2005.03.03 23:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Kinsy Edited by: Kinsy on 03/03/2005 22:31:47 Ill throw my hat in with the poster on this one. I had a similar problem and also lost my Apoc, with 3x50% Kinetic, Thermal and Explosive hardeners faster than you can say OMGWTFBBQ on this one. I checked my client logs and the damage on them just didnt correlate to what happened. Petitioned and was refused. And I use 2xSiege, 2xTachs and 4xMegapulse. They appear to do so much damage your client can't log 2/3rds of it. Damage Done: 727.30 Damage Received: 2726.80 I have 4372 Sheild hitpoints, 5760 Armor hitpoints, and 4887 Hull hitpoints. So yea The logs have always missed large amounts of data this isn't anything new. If you look at my estimate on damage you will see your setup with one more kinetic and one less thermal is even worse than the original poster. Pretty much you need to snipe them or at least kill off some of the spawn before they all get into range.


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