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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1574
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Over the almost 3 years I've been playing, and the various rebalancing passes or other changes I've seen, I have noticed a few types of responses from the playerbase whose playstyle is being nerfed. Which one are you?
1. The first (and loudest) is the rage train, or tears of unfathomable sadness. Signature phrases are overblown, inflammatory, or uninformed ("Eve is dying", "I am unsubbing my 37 accounts", "You killed small gang PvP, gj", etc). The people with this response opposed the nerf thoroughly, going as far as recommending a buff instead. Some of them even resort to personal attacks ("CCP are goons in disguise / CCP doesn't play their own game / You're just a CCP fanboi/alt!").
2. The schadenfreude enthusiasts, or trolls. Mostly make fun of group #1, and try to rile them up more, for purposes of collection of the tears of unfathomable sadness. Signature phrases include "posting in QQ thread", "umad" and similar.
3. The people who hate everything forever. These people will never be happy, and remind everyone of it. Signature phrases such as "It's about time tech got nerfed, what sort of drugs has CCP been on for all these years?" or "Why is the Tristan the T1 drone boat, but the Ishkur the T2 one?! This is an outrage!" Their arguments are typically a bit more well founded than #1, but the mad is strong with these ones, so #2 likes having fun with them too.
4. The opponent/skeptic offers intelligent discussion and contributions before and after the nerf. Accepts CCP's expertise and authority over Eve, adapts to change, but doesn't necessarily like it -- and expresses this via respectful discourse. Example: "Don't be so quick to judge titan tracking by the titan hitting MWDing, TP'ed Drakes, which are bigger than carriers," or "As we [opponents] anticipated, the nerf turned titans into little more than space taxis again; can we have a viable combat role for them?"
5. The supporter/enthusiast is very similar to #4, but holds the opposite position, arguing for why the nerf is a good idea and encouraging its implementation. Example: "It's ridiculous and unbalanced that a fleet of 30 people (albeit in titans) should be able to take on several hundreds of people and win, and goes against core Eve principles" or "Glad to see sanity return to fleet battles, thanks CCP!"
Every nerf seems to trigger varying amounts of composition of each of these groups, but #4 and #5 are usually (at least apparently) woefully small in number. How can we as players, forumgoers, mods, or devs (whoever is reading this) encourage more of that, and less of #1-3?
(Technically these groups show up in all changes, not just nerfs, but nerfs have the most pronounced effect because of someone 'losing out') Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Brooks Puuntai
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
800
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because intelligent discussion and constructive feedback requires more effort and usually provides less results. |
Robert De'Arneth
66
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meh, changes happen.
as to how can we/devs do to get less QQ? Not a damn thing, there will always be 1-3 and 4-5. Just eat some popcorn and giggle. |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3975
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
You forgot... 6. The "its just a game, whatever" group. Those who accept whatever CCP does with relative indifference until they get bored and go play something else. This group does not complain when something is changed, they do not proclaim that they're unsubbing, they just do it without a word, never to be heard from again. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
Jim Era
3646
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
wat |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1574
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:You forgot... 6. The "its just a game, whatever" group. Those who accept whatever CCP does with relative indifference until they get bored and go play something else. This group does not complain when something is changed, they do not proclaim that they're unsubbing, they just do it without a word, never to be heard from again. While they exist, they don't usually bother posting they don't care on the forum. When they do, I find that they fit into #3 a bit better, as letting everyone know how little they care seems a bit bitter to me. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1574
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
wat Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
2811
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think everyone who's read my posts knows which category I fall into (the good one).
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3976
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Guess wat.. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
156
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
You forgot one,
6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained. |
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Jim Era
3648
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would like my own category please.
In all seriousness though, I do not understand why people complain so much. In my 12 or so years of playing online games, I have very rarely ever even looked at patch notes etc and just kept playing the game. When something new came up or something old was no longer there, I asked people and they explained and I moved on.
I enjoy this game...if you do too why do you complain? When I no longer like the direction the company is heading I no longer play said game and find one that is more suitable.
rewr rewr
also, wat? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1576
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Varesk wrote:You forgot one,
6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained. Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1576
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:I would like my own category please.
Special just for you, 150 mil isk and you can have one. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
138
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
I find myself to be somewhat in between group 2 and 4/5 depending on the nerf/buff. It warms my cold, black heart to induce more sweet tears from the ragers, but I also enjoy discussing the ramifications of whatever change is being discussed. http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/ |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
563
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Balances are good for the game, nerfs suck, and most people are opposed to change either way.
Asking someone to like something that does not benefit them is a ridiculous request and will not only not be honored, but ridiculed. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Brooks Puuntai
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
803
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Should also add in.
Players who are apathetic because #4 never works, so they instead practice #2 and troll. |
Metal Icarus
Endless Destruction Against ALL Anomalies
285
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Because intelligent discussion and constructive feedback requires more effort and usually provides less results.
Yep, IRL too.... Proof that Eve is Real. |
Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yup, that's pretty much how it goes. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1316
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Depending on how stupid the rage, and if there is anyone else willing to have intelligent discussion...
Generally I fall into 4/5 (based on which opinion I hold on the nerf), sometimes 2. |
Robert De'Arneth
66
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Balances are good for the game, nerfs suck, and most people are opposed to change either way.
Asking someone to like something that does not benefit them is a ridiculous request and will not only not be honored, but ridiculed.
Kind of funny, since CCP as well as all other mmo devs makers call what you call nerfs balance tweaks.
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
698
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Posted - 2012.09.25 18:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
I only fear they pull another incarna or unified inventory on us. Blatantly going by any user feedback "because we don't believe you".
I'm not against change. Mining is like sticking forks in your eyeballs then trying to swim to Mars. Missioning is just a tad bit less worse, you just don't know your balls get electrocuted until its too late.
I'm against change for change sake. Pushing it through no matter what. Worst thing is if you have "experts" onboard telling you stuff like Aurum, gold ammo and what not is good. Hey, at least we all know the "experts" got incarna 1000% wrong. Instead of making money CCP lost money.
I don't mind nerfs, some worked out pretty well, some where just needed like ludicrous speed. I just think and feel at times they are handed out by people not playing the game but playing numbers.
Hey remember CCP Nohz? Who said you just could target paint titans? Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
James 315 wrote:I think everyone who's read my posts knows which category I fall into (the good one).
Egotist: Thinking everything is about them.
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Tarinara
Avenged Sevenfold Industries
1
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Posted - 2012.09.25 19:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:You forgot... 6. The "its just a game, whatever" group. Those who accept whatever CCP does with relative indifference until they get bored and go play something else. This group does not complain when something is changed, they do not proclaim that they're unsubbing, they just do it without a word, never to be heard from again. This! It's just *another game* on the internet and when it gets to tedious - move on. Although all the QQ'ers and trolls ARE lots of fun to read.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2012.09.25 19:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Over the almost 3 years I've been playing, and the various rebalancing passes or other changes I've seen, I have noticed a few types of responses from the playerbase whose playstyle is being nerfed. Which one are you?
1. The first (and loudest) is the rage train, or tears of unfathomable sadness. Signature phrases are overblown, inflammatory, or uninformed ("Eve is dying", "I am unsubbing my 37 accounts", "You killed small gang PvP, gj", etc). The people with this response opposed the nerf thoroughly, going as far as recommending a buff instead. Some of them even resort to personal attacks ("CCP are goons in disguise / CCP doesn't play their own game / You're just a CCP fanboi/alt!").
2. The schadenfreude enthusiasts, or trolls. Mostly make fun of group #1, and try to rile them up more, for purposes of collection of the tears of unfathomable sadness. Signature phrases include "posting in QQ thread", "umad" and similar.
3. The people who hate everything forever, or bittervets. These people will never be happy, and remind everyone of it. Signature phrases such as "It's about time tech got nerfed, what sort of drugs has CCP been on for all these years?" or "Why is the Tristan the T1 drone boat, but the Ishkur the T2 one?! This is an outrage!" Their arguments are typically a bit more well founded than #1, but the mad is strong with these ones, so #2 likes having fun with them too.
4. The opponent/skeptic offers intelligent discussion and contributions before and after the nerf. Accepts CCP's expertise and authority over Eve, adapts to change, but doesn't necessarily like it -- and expresses this via respectful discourse. Example: "Don't be so quick to judge titan tracking by the titan hitting MWDing, TP'ed Drakes, which are bigger than carriers," or "As we [opponents] anticipated, the nerf turned titans into little more than space taxis again; can we have a viable combat role for them?"
5. The supporter/enthusiast is very similar to #4, but holds the opposite position, arguing for why the nerf is a good idea and encouraging its implementation. Example: "It's ridiculous and unbalanced that a fleet of 30 people (albeit in titans) should be able to take on several hundreds of people and win, and goes against core Eve principles" or "Glad to see sanity return to fleet battles, thanks CCP!"
Every nerf seems to trigger varying amounts of composition of each of these groups, but #4 and #5 are usually (at least apparently) woefully small in number. How can we as players, forumgoers, mods, or devs (whoever is reading this) encourage more of that, and less of #1-3?
(Technically these groups show up in all changes, not just nerfs, but nerfs have the most pronounced effect because of someone 'losing out')
You forgot one type - the people who vote with their feet. In general, nerfs are always a bad idea. In eve terms, you have some player who has invested time, sp, and isk into being good in a certain ship, then ccp comes along and pulls the rug from under them. If the change is big enough a certain percentage of these folk are going to say f-it! and just quit. Conversely, imo ccp is unlikely to ever pull in new subs because they rebalanced one ship against another. So every time ccp nerfs something it runs a risk of driving a percentage of their players away without gaining any new subs. Ccp would be much better getting out of the balancing business and simply trusting the sandbox.
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Kinet
Frog Steamers
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think if CCP or the CSM did a better job of posting about the issues or in these threads it would reduce a lot of the #1 thru #3. I personally donGÇÖt feel any amount of posting on the forums will get CCP to change anything. It is only a small percentage of players who actually use the forums and only a subset of that posts opinions on changes. That sample size if really too small statistically speaking to make an accurate assessment of the players opinions.
Let me give you an example. I have over 4 mill SP in missiles and my main weapon (HM) is about to lose 20% of its damage and 25% of its range PLUS a module may now disrupt my missiles making them ineffective. On top of that the Thorax is getting more speed, better tracking and a new mid slot. As a Caldari pilot in FW who doesnGÇÖt want to fly the enemies ships, IGÇÖm a bit disappointed in this. Sadly, after making this point in the rage thread (No, I didnGÇÖt rage) I see no comment from CCP.
I think players get mad when they make a non-rage post and spell out their frustrations and CCP and the CSM provide no feedback. If one of them would simply post some math numbers and show me that the missile nerf was going to reduce my Caracal to be very close in damage to the new Thorax I could probably live with it. Sadly all I see from the Dev Blogs is missiles will now suck and Thorax will be OP. It is like instead of solving the Drake/Tengu issue, they just moved it over to the Thorax but instead of discussing it, they just throw it out there to see how much rage it will generate. This leaves many to think rage posts are necessary.
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Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
157
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Posted - 2012.09.25 19:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Varesk wrote:You forgot one,
6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained. Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc.
7) Dont care, Have enough ISK.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1576
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Varesk wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Varesk wrote:You forgot one,
6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained. Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc. 7) Dont care, Have enough ISK. Care enough to post on forums. #2 or #3, not sure
<3 Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
157
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Varesk wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Varesk wrote:You forgot one,
6) Dont care, All sub caps/weapon systems trained. Note how I mentioned non-ship specific nerfs as well, like the tech nerf. Other examples are nano nerf, incursion nerf, the coming FW iskfaucet nerf, etc. 7) Dont care, Have enough ISK. Care enough to post on forums. #2 or #3, not sure <3
8) Dont care, Stopped reading at #1.
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Maximillian Dragonard
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
234
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Posted - 2012.09.25 19:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
I prefer to just be nerf proof.
Spent forever training all races, but it was well worth the time.
A given favorite might take a hit, but at least I've always got a fallback position! Wut?! |
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