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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec talks about how he/she is introducing a slider to dictate the aggro switching decisions by the AI.
How long will it be before we hear about how the separate sliders will be introduced, set differently for low sec, null sec, and high sec? In other words, it will be next to nothing for null sec, and huge for high sec?
Or will we not hear anything about it at all, and it is simply and quietly introduced as a "feature"? |

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
In before Fraxi |

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Highsec is too easy. Your easy isk is breaking the rest of the game.
Adapt or die spacenoob. |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1210
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec talks about how he/she is introducing a slider to dictate the aggro switching decisions by the AI.
How long will it be before we hear about how the separate sliders will be introduced, set differently for low sec, null sec, and high sec? In other words, it will be next to nothing for null sec, and huge for high sec?
Or will we not hear anything about it at all, and it is simply and quietly introduced as a "feature"?
Are you really Glen Beck in disguise?
All your posts have this rumor-mongering fear-laced taint to them, but have just enough of a shred of truth somewhere at the root that you seem to pass the ISD rumor filter.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |

Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3979
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm tellin yas, OP is scared silly the day may come he won't be able to plop his double rep Dominix in a lvl4 and go eat his mama's salisbury steak while the game plays itself. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
588
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec I wish more devs would declare their hatred for high-sec ... and then do something to confirm that hatred. Nothing Found |

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec I wish more devs would declare their hatred for high-sec ... and then do something to confirm that hatred.
This this this! I give you a like! |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec talks about how he/she is introducing a slider to dictate the aggro switching decisions by the AI.
How long will it be before we hear about how the separate sliders will be introduced, set differently for low sec, null sec, and high sec? In other words, it will be next to nothing for null sec, and huge for high sec?
Or will we not hear anything about it at all, and it is simply and quietly introduced as a "feature"? Are you really Glen Beck in disguise? All your posts have this rumor-mongering fear-laced taint to them, but have just enough of a shred of truth somewhere at the root that you seem to pass the ISD rumor filter.
1. Glenn Beck is some kind of clown who was so far off base that even fox dumped him. 2. If it is rumour-mongering, the ISD will indeed step in. Of course, if there is a shred of truth, then it is not rumour-mongering, and implementing multiple sliders catering to the null sec crowd is fairly easy to do, as the mechanics for a slider is the crux of this new AI. 3. Fox Four made her/his hatred of high sec well-known when he/she posted that image in the dev blog gloating about this will murder drone boat operators, and how "everyone" wants more PvP in high sec. |

Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3979
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec I wish more devs would declare their hatred for high-sec ... and then do something to confirm that hatred. Bah, if it weren't for highsec all I'd be able to afford to fly would be atrons all day. 
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
588
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 18:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec I wish more devs would declare their hatred for high-sec ... and then do something to confirm that hatred. Bah, if it weren't for highsec all I'd be able to afford to fly would be atrons all day.  You just have to get better at not losing ships. Nothing Found |

Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3980
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Paul Oliver wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec I wish more devs would declare their hatred for high-sec ... and then do something to confirm that hatred. Bah, if it weren't for highsec all I'd be able to afford to fly would be atrons all day.  You just have to get better at not losing ships. Or join a corp/alliance that reimburse loses.  "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |

James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
2813
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec If this is hatred, I'd hate to see love for highsec. 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |

Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3981
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP buffs the difficulty in highsec making the pve grind just a wee bit more interesting and OP thinks its hate. 
Honestly I'm surprised their hasn't been whining yet that this will somehow keep people in highsec and that highsec NPCs should be made easier so people get bored and leave highsec sooner. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." - Thomas Paine |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:I'm tellin yas, OP is scared silly the day may come he won't be able to plop his double rep Dominix in a lvl4 and go eat his mama's salisbury steak while the game plays itself.
You know what chum?
This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.
What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit.
The null sec zealots believe that the whole game should go null, and Eve would do just fine without the majority of Eve players, and anything done to attack that large player base is an excellent move.
But that is not my style of play, nor is it for the majority of the eve customer base. And you also know what? Most players don't read about these changes in the dev blogs until it is too late, or not at all.
The only way to build up any resistance against the idiotic, high sec breaking change, is to scream long and loud, wherever possible. That works in modern politics, and frankly, that is what this ongoing war between the high sec players and the smaller, but far more committed group that hates high sec.
Oh, and one last thing. I am running right now, for the first time, Gallente epic arcs. I am in my Ishtar. Know how much chance this Ishtar has in many of these missions if AI starts targeting drones, even on a small scale? Zero, nada, zip. The Ishtar, and all drone boats, will be completely useless in many epic arc missions. |

Arec Bardwin
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec talks about how he/she is introducing a slider to dictate the aggro switching decisions by the AI. A linky would be useful.
|

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1827
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.
What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit. "if I cant AFK l4s they might as well not exist
why yes i have billions in liquid isk and BPOs from grinding L4s that i just sit on
don't listen to the nullsec zealots about l4s needing adjustments though" |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec talks about how he/she is introducing a slider to dictate the aggro switching decisions by the AI. A linky would be useful.
Go to Fox Four's dev blog, and look in the first couple pages.
Look for the comments about altering the slider between "ethical treatment of drones" to "drones killed my parents". |

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
134
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Here's a thought: other people play the game differently then you, and their playstyles are hurt by a constant and massive influx of liquid isk into the market, thus depreciating the value of every other activity in the game. Explore? Highsec lvl 4s have better isk with lower risk. Wormholes? Highsec lvl 4s have equal isk with lower risk. Nullsec sanctums? They're about on par with lvl 4s and you need a bunch of ships and nullsec space to run them. The game is skewed by highsec missions. Why would anyone do anything else? Its safe, its easy, its assured. Will eve die because of that? No, but it will be less fun, and honestly, there would probably be more player retention if 80% of new players didn't get sucked into the mission running for isk crowd right off the bat. |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.
What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit. "if I cant AFK l4s they might as well not exist why yes i have billions in liquid isk and BPOs from grinding L4s that i just sit on don't listen to the nullsec zealots about l4s needing adjustments though"
Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other.
Yeah, that is running missions afk.
Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON. |

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:Honestly I'm surprised their hasn't been whining yet that this will somehow keep people in highsec and that highsec NPCs should be made easier so people get bored and leave highsec sooner.
If this is about moving people to null, I'm again astounded that with all CCP's creative talent they can't come up with a way to actually make null more interesting and are still mired in the "make the alternative suck more" paradigm.
|

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:Here's a thought: other people play the game differently then you, and their playstyles are hurt by a constant and massive influx of liquid isk into the market, thus depreciating the value of every other activity in the game. Explore? Highsec lvl 4s have better isk with lower risk. Wormholes? Highsec lvl 4s have equal isk with lower risk. Nullsec sanctums? They're about on par with lvl 4s and you need a bunch of ships and nullsec space to run them. The game is skewed by highsec missions. Why would anyone do anything else? Its safe, its easy, its assured. Will eve die because of that? No, but it will be less fun, and honestly, there would probably be more player retention if 80% of new players didn't get sucked into the mission running for isk crowd right off the bat.
Guess what, I have lived in wh's for months at a time. I have lived in null sec with FCON. To equate the payouts of null and wh's with high sec is a complete lie.
Null sec Sanctum payouts are enormous compared to L4 missionsm and that is BEFORE the possibility of escalations.
Just because you post a lie does not make it true. |

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
134
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
But the alternative needs to suck more. There's never a reason to take a riskier chance if the zero risk activity is just as profitable. |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1210
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.
What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit. "if I cant AFK l4s they might as well not exist why yes i have billions in liquid isk and BPOs from grinding L4s that i just sit on don't listen to the nullsec zealots about l4s needing adjustments though" Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other. Yeah, that is running missions afk. Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON.
Oh quit crying.
2 obvious solutions jump right out to solve your troubles.
1) Stay near your drones so you can pull them if they draw aggro, or remote rep them.
2) Use sentry drones.
The AI are ridiculously easy to defeat, no matter if you're in missions, nullsec, plexes, wormholes or wherever. If you can't figure them out and adapt, then you're really in the wrong game. Eve is for thinking people.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |

Imports Plus
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Level 4 missions need to be WH sleeper level difficulty, with neuting towers are far more scrams. Level 4 missions are waay too easy for the reward they give. Balance please. |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.
What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit. "if I cant AFK l4s they might as well not exist why yes i have billions in liquid isk and BPOs from grinding L4s that i just sit on don't listen to the nullsec zealots about l4s needing adjustments though" Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other. Yeah, that is running missions afk. Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON. Oh quit crying. 2 obvious solutions jump right out to solve your troubles. 1) Stay near your drones so you can pull them if they draw aggro, or remote rep them. 2) Use sentry drones. The AI are ridiculously easy to defeat, no matter if you're in missions, nullsec, plexes, wormholes or wherever. If you can't figure them out and adapt, then you're really in the wrong game. Eve is for thinking people.
So how about we nerf large auto-cannon range in high sec so the mach's have to be within 10 km of their targets. All the mach's have to do is fit an a/b to their ships and get close to their targets. It is all about adapting, right? |

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:But the alternative needs to suck more.
Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting.
|

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
135
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Fraxi Nilanth wrote:But the alternative needs to suck more. Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting.
Well, lets consider that then? Shall we?
income per day for highsec missioning: 40-130 million isk (average) income per day of a class one wormhole (which I'll remind all of you is nullsec): 60 million isk (it goes upwards in other WHs from there) Income per day of an average nullsec ratter: 100-200 million isk (in well defended space)
So missions produce equal income to high risk group activities, right, well, clearly the solution is to buff those activities right? Why? Whats wrong with the amount of isk they make on those? Everything seems to be balanced in regards to risk except for mission running in highsec. |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1210
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So how about we nerf large auto-cannon range in high sec so the mach's have to be within 10 km of their targets. All the mach's have to do is fit an a/b to their ships and get close to their targets. It is all about adapting, right?
Sure, it sounds like an arbitrary nerf just to make you happy, but that's what this whole thread is about anyway isn't it? Making you happy?
What does your paranoia have to do with highsec anyway? They said these AI changes will apply to everything everywhere.
And yes, it is all about adapting - not whining about your pet easy-mode gameplay getting changed.
FWIW, I use drones all the time and the Ishtar is one of my favorite ships - I expect things to change, and I expect to adapt. Try it sometime.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |

Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
137
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
meh. This thread's boring. |

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 19:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:Malphilos wrote:Fraxi Nilanth wrote:But the alternative needs to suck more. Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting. Well, lets consider that then? Shall we? income per day for highsec missioning: 40-130 million isk (average) income per day of a class one wormhole (which I'll remind all of you is nullsec): 60 million isk (it goes upwards in other WHs from there) Income per day of an average nullsec ratter: 100-200 million isk (in well defended space) So missions produce equal income to high risk group activities, right, well, clearly the solution is to buff those activities right? Why? Whats wrong with the amount of isk they make on those? Everything seems to be balanced in regards to risk except for mission running in highsec.
If all you're interested in is the iskies, you're foolish to complain that you're not doing it right. It adds an air of petulance to the complaint that other people make isk more easily than you do. And that's saying something.
If you're after something more (as I suspect), you've picked a poor standard for comparison. |
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