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Zunami
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Posted - 2005.03.07 15:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zunami on 07/03/2005 17:09:40
Edited by: Zunami on 07/03/2005 15:39:10
Edited by: Zunami on 07/03/2005 15:36:37
I start this thread, 'cause I found nothing better about trackingspeed, orbit range and velocity.
This is a simple mathematic approach on understanding the tracking speed of turrets.
Q: What does it mean 0.03 RAD/sec?
A: It's the angle the turret turns in one second.
Scenario: Your ship has stopped. A pirate drone with 315 m/sec (vD) circles you in a distance of 10000 m (rD). Do you land a hit with your turret?
First we have to understand the unit RAD. Degrees (DEG) are more comfortable.
RAD = Pi * DEG / 180
One full circle has 360 DEG. Inserting this value in the formula gives:
~6.28 RAD
Now you can devide this by the tracking speed 0.03 (tvT = turn velocity turret) of the turret:
6.28 RAD / 0.03 RAD/sec = ~209 sec
If the drone needs less time to circle you - you won't hit the bug.
Second the drone circle time: this is meters to fly around you divided by velocity.
2 * Pi * rD / vD = tD
2 * Pi * 10000 m / 315 m/sec = ~ 199 sec (tD)
Nop. You won't hit it often.
Now let us combine the formulas to calculate quicker:
2 * Pi * rD / vD = Pi * 360 / 180 / tvT
2 * Pi * rD / vD = Pi * 2 / tvT
rD / vD = 1 / tvT
rD * tvT / vD = Indicator
(rD = orbit radus of drone)
(tvT = tracking speed turret)
(vD = velocity drone)
Indicator lesser than 1 = you do _NOT_ hit the bug
Indicator greater than 1 = you hit the bug
Please confirm if my calculations are right.
Zunami |
Archonus
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Posted - 2005.03.07 16:45:00 -
[2]
.... I totally understood all that
[/sarcasm off]
press hotkeys and hope it hits is my method  |
Urtok
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Posted - 2005.03.07 18:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Urtok on 07/03/2005 18:31:10
^ really overly complicated:
there is an simple way to find out if you can track a target or not.
First take the signature radius of the ship and divided it by the signature resloution of the weapon:
SRS/SRW = modtr (mod to tracking)
then multiply this by the weapons tracking speed:
modtr*WTS = TTS (true tracking speed)
take the TTS and multiply it by the disantce to the target:
TTS*range=TRT (we'll call this traverse range to target because I can't think of anything else at the moment)
compare the TRT to the traverse velocity you get from your overview. If the TRT is greater or equal to the traverse velocity then you can track it, if less you can't track the target.
No need for Pi rad and all that stuff, just numbers from the game.
example:
a cruiser using a 250mm railgun shooting at a frigate.
the tracking of the 250mm is .023 and the signature resolution is 125mm verses a frigate with at signature radius of 32m (for us the numbers and not the measure is important). So to start:
32/125= .256x.023= .00588 is the true tracking of this weapon against this frigate
so at 10,000 meters (10km) this weapon can track the frigate if it was orbiting with a traverse velocity of 58.8m/s or less (.00588x10000=58.8) and at 100,000 meter (100km) this weapon can track the frigate if it had a traverse velocity of 588m/s or less.
And a reminder the traverse velocity can be found in the overview under "traverse velocity" column. No need to calculate it
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)[]==^=
This is Bunny with a machine gun. |
Lygos
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Posted - 2005.03.07 19:25:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lygos on 07/03/2005 19:25:45
It does not describe radians at all by my observations. Rather it is simply a multiplier value. You can still miss a target that is not moving some of the time and you can still occasionally hit a target moving with very high relative transversal velocity.
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.03.07 21:28:00 -
[5]
i think i need to go back to school and take math again
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.03.08 15:53:00 -
[6]
Firstly, you've really overcomplicated everything by converting to degrees. Yes, radians take a few minutes thought to get your head around, but once you have they make tracking calculations muuuuch neater - no need for pi or factors of 360 anywhere. Someone else has pointed out how you can more easily calculate the key point (when your targets angular velocity (rad/s) equalls your guns tracking speed).
The second point is that tracking is not an all-or-nothing track-or-you-don't-track process. The "key point" that you can calculate from the gun stats is the 50% tracking accuracy point. So if your target is orbitting you at 0.1 rad/s and your gun has 0.1 rad/s tracking, and it's within optimal range, you will hit 50% of the time. If they orbit faster, accuracy falls off towards 0%, slower, it rises towards 100%. The transition curve can be well-approximated by a straight-line near the middle (70%-30%), but at extremes it curves off asymptotically.
Of course, with some of the short-range, high-tracking guns, the transition period is so narrow that tracking appears to be an on-off process.....breaking out the long-range guns shows up the tracking curve much better.
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Zunami
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Posted - 2005.03.08 16:10:00 -
[7]
I did some research on older topics and found a lot of conflicting information. And I read a rumour about "wrong" mathematics in eve.
Best to proof all formulas ingame by testing.
Zunami
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.03.08 16:29:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Zunami
I did some research on older topics and found a lot of conflicting information. And I read a rumour about "wrong" mathematics in eve.
Most of the wrong maths is in the forums, not the game itself. As most of the maths behind the game we've had to discover by reverse engineering it, various people have got to various levels of accuracy in their estimates - quite often you'll find if two people have conflicting opinions of the maths, they'll turn out to simply be different estimates of the same underlying curve.
Of course, there are always those that find something that fits the observations in one case, and cling to it as a universal truth....usually claiming anything that doesn't fit is a bug. Or just make up how they'd like it to work and moan that the game doesn't fit it properly!
Originally by: Zunami
Best to proof all formulas ingame by testing.
Zunami
Always true, but proper scientific tests are hard to do on certain aspects of the eve mechanics...most of the "tests" on these forums are not at all scientific, and are at best misleading, at worst pure deception. I tend to rely on material released by devs where possible. As far as tracking goes, there is an old blog that mentions the 50% point issue, and the graphs in more recent posts by the dev Hammer seem to fit with this understanding of the tracking system very well.
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.03.08 18:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zunami
Best to proof all formulas ingame by testing.
yup. that's why it's great to have like minded individuals in your corp. Just make a simple experiment to test one's theory and have a buddy play target practice at a fixed orbit velocity. (and even at stop)gotta question all assumptions
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
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