| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
332
   |
Posted - 2012.10.01 03:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:from what I understand(and I hope I'm wrong), one who has a bounty on him will be open to attack, by anyone, anywhere, at any time.
No, this would be crazy. Kill rights will be saleable and rentable, though. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
332
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 03:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:No, this would be crazy. Kill rights will be saleable and rentable, though. Why should they be? You want someone killed, hire a merc.
I don't understand your post. If the merc wants to kill the guy without making a wardec (highsec), they hire the killright from someone. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
332
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 04:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Why should you be able to buy the ability to escape HS aggression mechanics?
If you're hiring a merc, pay well enough to buy a suicide gank.
If someone had kill rights, the player was a pirate and had ganked someone in empire anyway. Why are you arguing with me? This is one of the features of the new system. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
332
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 04:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ehhh and this is just a wild guess but I'm wondering what CSM was talking to Bagehi about when they mentioned a potentially controversial feature coming in Winter.
Bounty/killrights and crimewatch changes could make room for tweaks on CONCORD? Allowing players more options (and motives) to take the law into their own hands might mean the magic space police won't need to be quite as powerful as they are?
(PS career suicide gankers don't need to grind their sec back) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
333
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 05:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:So? I'm not saying that the person who has the killright shouldn't be able to freely attack their ganker, I'm asking why the person they're outsourcing revenge to should be able to perform that revenge without consequence? And I see nothing in there about transferrable killrights.
The part that says "sell or rent out kill rights" is referring to the selling or renting out of kill rights.
Killrights at the moment are a system that isn't being used. Besides, many ganks are made upon industry or low-skill alts that wouldn't be able to take advantage of the killrights anyway.
I don't understand your objection to outsourcing a bit of pewpew. What's the difference between the original character attacking a person without consequence and someone else attacking the same person without consequence? Remember that many characters being ganked aren't skilled in pvp. Besides that, a percentage-based bounty system wouldn't work in highsec unless the mercenary was able to kill the target for profit. If the target flies a battlecruiser, suicide ganking for profit just isn't possible.
A wardec allows you to pay to attack someone. Buying killrights allows you to attack someone. The difference is, with a wardec, they could be innocent, they know you're coming and they'll fly a suitable pvp ship. With transferrable killrights, they've performed a criminal action, which they knew would create a kill right (this is important), you can catch them by surprise, and you're more able to catch them in something that'll hurt their wallet when it goes 'boom'.
I think another important difference is that a wardec will likely cost more but allows you to attack that person multiple times. A killright only works once. Whether or not it will cost more to buy will depend upon the bounty or the target, I guess. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
333
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 06:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:The difference is that it's a whole different person. A person that you have done nothing to and thus have no way of knowing is after you. If the people who have outgoing killrights are unwilling to prosecute those killrights, that's their problem. They have access to the exact same skills and rules as everyone else.
So pay your mercs enough that a suicide gank will be profitable for them.
Wardecs allow you to attack someone and allow them to attack you. If buying a killright gives the person whom that right is for some warning and allows them to attack you, I'm all for that (and I've suggested that before), but given the giant mess CCP's made out of the wardec system in the name of improving it, that's not likely to happen. Please remember the nature of what a killright is. A killright is granted only when someone kills you illegally (no wardecs, no canflip) in Empire where you didn't agress them at all. If you shoot back after they start shooting you, the killright isn't granted. You're using lines like 'a person you have done nothing to and has no way to know you're after them'. The killright was granted in the first place because the aggressor killed a person who had done nothing to them and didn't know the aggressor was after them! Also, the fact that the victim didn't even try to fight back to get on the CONCORD mail indicates that they weren't able to fight back.
The aggressor will know a killright might be granted the moment they hit F1. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
334
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 06:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
It takes two. One who may have been stupid enough to attract a gank, and the second who made the choice to commit a crime. Allowing transfer of kill rights isn't just there to allow free attacks. The bounty and killright systems were created to allow players to punish people who commit a crime. That is, it's always been an intended feature of EVE Online. The transfer of killrights is going to allow bounties and killrights to achieve that goal. Your insistence that people should have to wardec or suicide gank is ignoring the intent of the killrights system - that it may allow players to punish criminals and might make criminals think twice before ganking an innocent, which it is currently failing to do.
Quote:Surprise in HS costs you your ship. If you want to avoid that cost, you'll either have to pay ISK and give up that surprise or you'll have to get your victim to afree to the fight. Not anymore. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Kraken.
334
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 07:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Sure it is. Why else would you need the kill right? If you want to hurt the guy who hurt you and you want it to be a surprise, you can do that, it's just going to cost you the ship you use to suicide gank them.
The killrights system is there to allow people to get revenge on people who wronged them. Not to avenge other people's losses. If you want to avenge other people's losses, it's going to cost you, because you're butting into someone else's business.
No. Due the whole 'alternate character' business the killrights system is useless. The intent was to allow to player to take action against the person who wronged them without risking CONCORD or gateguns. Mining alts are unable to do that.
The bounty system is also there to allow people to get someone else to get revenge for them. The bounty system is flawed, however, and we both know why - it's too easy to exit the ship and pod yourself with your alt to claim the bounty. This is why the bounty system is being changed to a percentage of ship cost. As I said, this makes suicide ganking for bounty unprofitable and not worthwhile, because you're only getting a proportion of the target's shipcost as bounty.
This is where transferrable killrights comes in. You can transfer the killrights to your PvP character to get your deserved retribution. Bounty hunters won't have to make an unprofitable suicide gank to claim the bounty. They can buy or rent the killrights (yes, this would probably cost money because there are only so few killrights to go around for a large bounty target) to attack the target, who no-one can argue was undeserving of being shot by the fact that they had killrights on them in the first place.
The transfer of killrights is neccessary to fulfil the original intent of the killrights system in the current EVE game and also neccessary to facilitate the new bounty system. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
334
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 08:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:If you don't train your mining alt up to avenge its own losses, that's your choice. You choose not to train it to be able to avenge itself. Before you say "there's no reason to do so," making use of your killrights is a reason. If you don't value that, that's your choice.
How does a percentage bounty not make ganking worthwhile? Especially with regards to T2 ships. If the percentage you set isn't high enough to make it worth ganking a certain ship, up the percentage. 75% will make it worth ganking just about any ship. But wait, that would cost you something.
Transferable killrights are simply you being too cheap to hire a proper hit, and too cowardly/lazy to do it yourself, so you want somebody else to pay you for their shot at a free gank. Where's the risk for the person buying the killright?
It is in no way necessary. Killrights are there to allow your character to get revenge on another character.
It's also not in any way necessary to allow a bounty system to work. As I said, if the payout isn't enough to make the gank profitable, up your offering.
The percentage bounty means that the amount of bounty paid out is somewhere under the value of the ship, like the faction war LP system. It's not set by players. This means that getting a large enough bounty paid out to be worth your time means you need to attack a high-value ship. High-value ships just happen to be ships that require a large investment to gank. It has been made that to gank a ship you generally need to spend as much or more than the value of the ship to destroy it, especially with the no-insurance nerf to suicide ganking. For this reason suicide ganking ships for profit in the new bounty system is unlikely to be worthwhile. In the current system, suicide ganks for bounty profit are made using smartbomb battleships and this is only possible because the whole bounty is paid out at the same time.
One intention for transferrable killrights is to allow people to purchase the right in anticipation of attacking someone to claim the bounty, because the cost of wardecs may just be too high for the amount of bounty you can expect to claim.
You ask about risk for the person buying the killright. Please remember that while risk/reward is an important ratio in this game, risk isn't the only thing that nets you reward. The merc is investing isk into buying a killright that they may never get to use. And what about the risk for the ganker themselves? After making that gank they face almost zero risk of the victim using the killright. No-one even considers it, really - miners choose to aggress the ganker with their hobgoblins to get on the CONCORD mail rather than take the killrights.
Yes. Killrights allow your character to take revenge on another character. Which is why they are currently all but useless.
Also your suggestion of training pvp skills on a mining alt is stupid. People don't do that, which is why the game is changing. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
339
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 01:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Reaper gI wrote:(I was at the London meet)
[...]
Similarly a criminal could buy [kill rights] off their victim, so they didnt have to wait out the kill right (or lose a ship).
This is one of my favourite parts by the way |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
345
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 16:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
From the new devblog, earning a 'criminal' flag will generate a killright. I assume this replaces the current system.
Quote:Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed.
From the chart included in the blog, illegally attacking and blowing up a ship in lowsec will not generate a criminal flag, only a suspect flag. Attacking a pod illegally does create a killright. So just flying around low around murdering innocents won't hand out killrights to half of New Eden.
Am I reading this right? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
361
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 15:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you want to remove your killright, you buy it with your alt and then shoot your main while it's in a shuttle (or an unfit frig for a 'real kill') to avoid any great loss. Is this right? Is it a problem?
There was talk of buying your own killright with the character the killright is against in order to lose it. Is this still possible? |
| |
|