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Xetic & Celestial Horizon Corp

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CYVOK	Posted - 2005.03.10 00:04:00 - [1] To avoid a lock please refer to what I have posted here: The first link is our main site The second link is the frint page topic, easier for some. Celestial Horizon Corp Linkage Commanets are welcome, flamers and grifers are not. Thank you
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.10 00:13:00 - [2] Well done man. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
TheUnkown	Posted - 2005.03.10 00:25:00 - [3] big ups to boss man RESPECT I WILL NOT LOSE...Always KILL...Never KILLED
Skape Gote	Posted - 2005.03.10 00:52:00 - [4] Originally by: CYVOK To avoid a lock please refer to what I have posted here: The first link is our main site The second link is the frint page topic, easier for some. Celestial Horizon Corp Linkage Commanets are welcome, flamers and grifers are not. Thank you Im confused, are you supporting the addition of alt corps in Xetic or against? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue......
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2005.03.10 00:57:00 - [5] I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now. It's why I left, in fact. I beleived that the issue had been killed two weeks earlier, so imagin my surprise when it came up as a voting item. To their credit, most of the small corps voted against it. I'm not going to jump on here and start a flame fest. I'm still a bit shocked that the higher leadership in XETIC couldn't come up with a better way to let CCP know how screwed up their war system is. My suggestion would be to pass a vote requiring ever member of the 4000+ member of the alliance to petition CCP before enacting this. Enforcing it shouldn't be a problem, since I know most of XF would like to see the 5 man pirate corp wars go away. That's just my opinion, though. _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Skape Gote Im confused, are you supporting the addition of alt corps in Xetic or against? As a long time CLS member let me translate, I speak fluent Cyvokese... ;) Against... at least most of the people I've seen chime in were against the idea. Which doesn't jive with the way the vote went. ---------------
Zerodragoon	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Skape Gote Originally by: CYVOK To avoid a lock please refer to what I have posted here: The first link is our main site The second link is the frint page topic, easier for some. Celestial Horizon Corp Linkage Commanets are welcome, flamers and grifers are not. Thank you Im confused, are you supporting the addition of alt corps in Xetic or against? "A new vote is being held this week, resaults usually come out on wednesdays. The vote is to either support the OPTION, or KILL it as an OPTION. CLS will vote the way we want to this time.... against." From the blog, theres your answer. -------
Skape Gote	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Zerodragoon Originally by: Skape Gote Originally by: CYVOK To avoid a lock please refer to what I have posted here: The first link is our main site The second link is the frint page topic, easier for some. Celestial Horizon Corp Linkage Commanets are welcome, flamers and grifers are not. Thank you Im confused, are you supporting the addition of alt corps in Xetic or against? "A new vote is being held this week, resaults usually come out on wednesdays. The vote is to either support the OPTION, or KILL it as an OPTION. CLS will vote the way we want to this time.... against." From the blog, theres your answer. If i was in an alliance who's president changed his mind so dramatically I'd be very worried. Also CYVOK claims Xetic wont be pushed around by members of Eve, yet he seems to ahve very much bowed to the masses that thought it was very lame thing to do. Thats why i was asking for clarification, the 2 points of view set out by the pres seem almost polar. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue......
Velsharoon	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:15:00 - [9] applauds
Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Skape Gote If i was in an alliance who's president changed his mind so dramatically I'd be very worried. Also CYVOK claims Xetic wont be pushed around by members of Eve, yet he seems to ahve very much bowed to the masses that thought it was very lame thing to do. Thats why i was asking for clarification, the 2 points of view set out by the pres seem almost polar. No matter what we do or say people will always try to find fault. It's a no win situation, but you know what, I don't think we really care when it comes down to it, simply becuase of that fact... Our enemies will continue to call us enemies and will continue to spin situations in their favor no matter what. ---------------
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Feyd Darkholme Originally by: Skape Gote If i was in an alliance who's president changed his mind so dramatically I'd be very worried. Also CYVOK claims Xetic wont be pushed around by members of Eve, yet he seems to ahve very much bowed to the masses that thought it was very lame thing to do. Thats why i was asking for clarification, the 2 points of view set out by the pres seem almost polar. No matter what we do or say people will always try to find fault. It's a no win situation, but you know what, I don't think we really care when it comes down to it, simply becuase of that fact... Our enemies will continue to call us enemies and will continue to spin situations in their favor no matter what. I dont think the whole alt padding thing needed much spinning tbh Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Selthae	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Skape Gote If i was in an alliance who's president changed his mind so dramatically I'd be very worried. Dear Sir, Let me show you an excerpt from the page the second link in the first post pointed to: CLS carries more then 2X as many votes as any other Xetic corp. So it easy for us to kill a vote, because of that I try to "give" our votes to the majority vote of the rest of the Xetic Corps weather I totally agree with the issue or not. This is not about changing minds. This is about CLS. Kindly, Selthae.
Waagaa Ktlehr	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:27:00 - [13] Good call, CYVOK. Don't let the likes of "Skape Goat" and co. get to you by spinning this the way they want :) ------------------------------------------ I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Darken Two I dont think the whole alt padding thing needed much spinning tbh See what I mean? That's not at all what I'm talking about. I can't speak for XF, but I can recall my own experience. When this was first brought up (the alt corp thing) 99.999% of CLS was against it (I can't really remember anyone that was actually for* it, but just in case). We still are from what I've seen. I don't claim to know exactly how the politics work (I hate politics)* or how this got pushed through XF voting with so many members against the idea, but it did. Now we're trying to get a policy most of CLS, many XF members and many other members of the EVE community at large found cheap and distasteful thrown out, and people are still trying to spin that and make us look bad... ---------------
Malken	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:40:00 - [15] welcome to the world of Forum-Spin. good choice though CLS. Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Skape Gote	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Good call, CYVOK. Don't let the likes of "Skape Goat" and co. get to you by spinning this the way they want :) Whilst I applaud the decision that has been made, I cant see how im trying to spin anything. It was CYVOK that went on the record and said how this was going to be Xetic policy and that we should blame CCP for forcing Xetics hand. Now there has been a 180 degree change of heart from the president and everyone is saying how great this is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue......
Waagaa Ktlehr	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Skape Gote Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Good call, CYVOK. Don't let the likes of "Skape Goat" and co. get to you by spinning this the way they want :) Whilst I applaud the decision that has been made, I cant see how im trying to spin anything. It was CYVOK that went on the record and said how this was going to be Xetic policy and that we should blame CCP for forcing Xetics hand. Now there has been a 180 degree change of heart from the president and everyone is saying how great this is. Point taken. Try being CLS CEO, XETIC VP and a person though :) Politics are black nor white. Corp members have their opinion and CLS is too big (has too many votes) to just say "yay" or "nay" without consulting others and ****ing off a lot of people. We two are Soldiers, dear mr. Skape. If it's red on my scanner, I shoot it. If it is below -5 or neutral in your space, you give it the quick ride home. Politics doesn't have easy standings and nicely layed out ROEs. :) ------------------------------------------ I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
Selthae	Posted - 2005.03.10 01:56:00 - [18] Actually, Conram is president of Xetic, not CYVOK. CYVOK is vice-president of Xetic, as well as the CEO of a large member-corporation of Xetic. The statement where the decision was defended, was (as i see it) made from the role as vice-pres. This post was as CEO of CLS. Having to fullfill both roles, balance what's good for CLS and xetic and how the rest of Eve views these decisions is a hard thing to do. And quite frankly, I'm amazed at how good he's doing it.
Skape Gote	Posted - 2005.03.10 02:02:00 - [19] Fair comment from both of you, I'll just stick to shooting the red flasy things :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue......
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.03.10 02:47:00 - [20] I take back many of the bad things I said about Xetic, assuming you actually follow through. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Tomahawk Bliss	Posted - 2005.03.10 03:25:00 - [21] the inherent flaw in all EVE democratic organizations where in votes are granted by number of listed members in each corps is two fold. 1. In Actives, some small corps have more active players than some large corps and yet get short changed in voting. along with this some corps have vast numbers of alts (which i include as In Active) and those alts are now getting votes. 2. active but useless. In JQA we had corps where they wouldn't lift a finger to help. they just sucked crokite and left the fighting to everyone else. Yet when Senate measures came around they sure showed up to get their way. This was completely unfair and was the main reason Supremacy could out blob an entire alliance. We had a lot of dead weight. the only proper solution would be some sort of "active" tagging system where in if you log in less than once a month or some such your number gets deleted off the corp number or perhaps some symbol is placed next to your name etc... I have no care either way on the issue. I don't think Xetic can be "looked down upon" by this when the new X-CA weapon has been trying to spam bullsht on the forums with fake chat logs and constant threads about "on noes the end of (insert alliance name here)" unless you also "look down" on their really really (really) lame forum tactics. either way it will still cost a lot to war Xetic but there would have to be hundreds of alt corps to really make a difference. Consider how much isk is floating around in my wallet, and I'm not even an industrialist. Isk is too easy to get anymore. So this is really a non-issue. 2 cents* "You can go kill people wherever you want if you take the consequences like a man (or a woman)." -Oveur
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.10 04:37:00 - [22] Wars and change are fact of eve life and I think evolution knew it best..adapt or be forgotten. Some adaptations are obviously better then others. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
CYVOK	Posted - 2005.03.10 04:47:00 - [23] Tomahawk Bliss, I totally agree. However you will find that CLS not only is ALWAYS on the frount line for Xetic but that we have VERY few inactive member. I would kill for a "last login" tag... but that is a different topic. I clean house on our membership every 3 months or so. Actually we are in the middile of one now, 58 members getting booted. What I found works well is clearing all the portraits in the cache, then as you see corp members in chat load the pic. Anyone not loaded after 2 or 3 months gets booted. Works very well. We do have alot of alts in CLS, many of our members have several accounts. When voting is based on membership and membership become large a corp has to take responsability for that "power". To that end CLS is almost always the last corp to vote in Xetic, this is so that we do not sabotage a vote that the majority truly want. Its a hard balance. I love my corp and I am loyal to Xetic, I try to do my best but I am by no means perfect and I don't have perfect answers.
David Corbett	Posted - 2005.03.10 04:56:00 - [24] Edited by: David Corbett on 10/03/2005 05:02:13 Edited by: David Corbett on 10/03/2005 04:57:40 Edited by: David Corbett on 10/03/2005 04:56:43 A bit of an unnofficial explanation, as I see it: (note that this is me as a person, not as a member of a corp or alliance or whatever, so if you don't like it, flame me, not XF - remember, I am neither an XF diplomat or official of any capacity, nor a GOI officer of any sort, but simply an observer who is a member of XETIC.) There were very few people in XF that actually supported this motion. Evidence of this comes from the fact that it was a very close call, despite CLS' massive influence on the votes. The objective of this little thing wasn't to make XF undeclareable on by stuffing it with altcorps, which is both lame and (hopefully) below most of the alliance, but to prove a point to CCP - that, by creating hundreds of alt corps and stuffing the alliance with them, the alliance doesn't change but the war-declaration cost goes up astronomically. Pointing out this flaw, it was hoped, would convince CCP to rethink their system. The fact that not one alt-corp was made during this period of time, to my knowledge (Empire State Holding Company is the regional organization for an XF region, and help run stations and suchlike there, and M.o.M. is inactive and has been for a long time) points out that this motion as intended was a complete failure and that XF, as a whole, wants absolutely nothing to do with it. The whole point of this wasn't to make war declarations against XF impossible: 9 out of 10, I'm sure, XF members have enjoyed the wars with FoE and Supremacy and suchlike, finding them quite enjoyable. The problem was with the thought that a five-man corporation can wardec XF and do damage. My personal opinion with this is that it's not the game's fault - we have been very strict with game rules, choosing to form an alliance and making sure that all XF corps active are members, and that should be a point of pride, not a weakness - but the fault of some pilots. XF is a very large organization; as of right now, we have over 5500 members or some absurd amount like that. Unsurprisingly, as XF is a very fair cross-section of the EVE community, you will find ultimate carebears to complete newbies to hardcore PvP nuts. The fact that five people can somehow harm our traffic is probably a sad reflection on the fact that some people don't engage their brain when they engage their ship. Indeed, it's almost a point for the Jericho Fraction on their opinions with the weakness of large alliances to smaller organizations. However, don't think that XF is crumbling or anything of the sort. With CLS' support, I guarantee that the motion will be voted into nothingness and alt-corps will go back to being unnaceptable in the XETIC alliance without a good purpose. Examples of a useful alt-corp would be, say, an Omist Holding Company that owns the stations in Omist, does treasury stuff, and helps have all corps in Omist working together. An example of an alt corp that wouldn't be allowed (nor would it ever exist, knowing my corp) would be the Golden Oak Industries Academy. I hope this helps clarify some things. And, as to our foes in Empire space and 0.0, good luck, good fighting, and have fun (I'd wish you safe jumps, but that'd leave me out of an EVE occupation with PvP :P) And one last thought - CLS became what it is today because it is a large, well managed, and respected corporation. They run a very clean outfit, and I have both a tremendous respect for CYVOK as a CEO and a tremendous confidence that he will, as he has said, do the right thing for the alliance and for the game and change his vote to the other way on this motion, which will defeat it quite easily, as it was very close even with CLS' support. And please, I urge the posters on this forum, to remember that it is Corporation, Alliance, and Organization Discussions that we're all writing on... this is an out-of-character forum about a game. I truly hope that the people in this forum do not truly hold such vitriolic beliefs about a group of other people who haven't wronged them in any way other than being opposed to them in a game.
MC Hammer	Posted - 2005.03.10 05:33:00 - [25] Enjoy your last days before SE dies.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.10 07:01:00 - [26] ::warm fuzzy feelings of non-ghey love for CYVOK:: LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2005.03.10 07:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Joshua Calvert ::warm fuzzy feelings of non-ghey love for CYVOK:: ---------------
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.10 07:32:00 - [28] CYVOK 4TW!! Excellent. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Vlandarr	Posted - 2005.03.10 10:38:00 - [29] Nice turn around well done
Olgzr	Posted - 2005.03.10 14:44:00 - [30] The Xetic vote and all the attention it has generated in the forums was all that was needed. CCP has to be aware this is something that should be fixed. Will they actually DO something about it is another question.
Saladin	Posted - 2005.03.11 16:10:00 - [31] I really have no sympathy for any xetic corps in light of the events of the past 4 weeks. XF ended an NAP with Kereitsu using Botox as justification, aside from the fact that the Botox-Kereitsu relationship did not go beyond old friends who did not want to shoot each other. When several corps in EvE decide to act against XF, we are supposed to believe that this is an honest fun loving alliance that does not deserve such treatment. Now we have XF trying to leverage their numbers to get CCP to change the game to suit their needs. Why not leverage those numbers to dominate your foes in game instead? --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003.
Zaintiraris	Posted - 2005.03.11 16:29:00 - [32] Edited by: Zaintiraris on 11/03/2005 16:29:48 Originally by: Saladin Now we have XF trying to leverage their numbers to get CCP to change the game to suit their needs. It is my understanding from the many many threads on this forum that every alliance sees alt-corps, official alliance membership, war costs etc to be a very large important deal. I believe FOE allowed the war vs. XETIC to drop for the reason of bugged costs, which is costing their players their time. (Edit) And of course bringing it back however many hours later. (end edit) CCP wouldn't want players to feel like their hard-earned time is wasted, to my knowledge, unless it is with a frosty Quafe. --- Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.
Khaerie	Posted - 2005.03.13 12:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I don't think Xetic can be "looked down upon" by this when the new X-CA weapon has been trying to spam bullsh*t on the forums with fake chat logs and constant threads about "on noes the end of (insert alliance name here)" unless you also "look down" on their really really (really) lame forum tactics. Ya know, being an "X-CA", I'm kind of curious as to why you would 1. Lump all X-CA into this mindset 2. Even bring any in to it when it has nothing to do with X-CA in the first place? No offense to anyone but there is an X for a reason in front of that. Don't you think after over 2 months it is time to let it go and look to individual corp behaviors? Director of Communications 2nd in Command of Foreign Affairs
Lalante	Posted - 2005.03.13 14:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Khaerie Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I don't think Xetic can be "looked down upon" by this when the new X-CA weapon has been trying to spam bullsh*t on the forums with fake chat logs and constant threads about "on noes the end of (insert alliance name here)" unless you also "look down" on their really really (really) lame forum tactics. Ya know, being an "X-CA", I'm kind of curious as to why you would 1. Lump all X-CA into this mindset 2. Even bring any in to it when it has nothing to do with X-CA in the first place? No offense to anyone but there is an X for a reason in front of that. Don't you think after over 2 months it is time to let it go and look to individual corp behaviors? It were not 2 months spent after CA splitting and you are in Stain Empire... I know how to call woman who sold herself ;)
Vanila Ice	Posted - 2005.03.13 17:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I have no care either way on the issue. I don't think Xetic can be "looked down upon" by this when the new X-CA weapon has been trying to spam bullsh*t on the forums with fake chat logs and constant threads about "on noes the end of (insert alliance name here)" unless you also "look down" on their really really (really) lame forum tactics. Must suck to be owned.
Khaerie	Posted - 2005.03.13 19:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Khaerie Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I don't think Xetic can be "looked down upon" by this when the new X-CA weapon has been trying to spam bullsh*t on the forums with fake chat logs and constant threads about "on noes the end of (insert alliance name here)" unless you also "look down" on their really really (really) lame forum tactics. Ya know, being an "X-CA", I'm kind of curious as to why you would 1. Lump all X-CA into this mindset 2. Even bring any in to it when it has nothing to do with X-CA in the first place? No offense to anyone but there is an X for a reason in front of that. Don't you think after over 2 months it is time to let it go and look to individual corp behaviors? It were not 2 months spent after CA splitting and you are in Stain Empire... I know how to call woman who sold herself ;) Let's work on accuracy, we are not yet officially in Stain, we are Stain Trial Members. The real problem here is, what has that to do with people lumping individuals from the past? I would think that you, being one of the very first to leave Curse, would be interested in not being lumped in under a generality. Now, let's stay civil and focused on the subject. I'm still not interested in flaming. Director of Communications 2nd in Command of Foreign Affairs
Psychopat	Posted - 2005.03.13 23:29:00 - [37] Edited by: Psychopat on 13/03/2005 23:29:40 I thought you were Xetic Trial members Khaerie? Did the wind blow from a different direction all of a sudden? -=water? Never touch the stuff,fish fock in it=-
Kretchi	Posted - 2005.03.14 01:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Khaerie Originally by: Khaerie Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss I don't think Xetic can be "looked down upon" by this when the new X-CA weapon has been trying to spam bullsh*t on the forums with fake chat logs and constant threads about "on noes the end of (insert alliance name here)" unless you also "look down" on their really really (really) lame forum tactics. Ya know, being an "X-CA", I'm kind of curious as to why you would 1. Lump all X-CA into this mindset 2. Even bring any in to it when it has nothing to do with X-CA in the first place? No offense to anyone but there is an X for a reason in front of that. Don't you think after over 2 months it is time to let it go and look to individual corp behaviors? It were not 2 months spent after CA splitting and you are in Stain Empire... I know how to call woman who sold herself ;) Let's work on accuracy, we are not yet officially in Stain, we are Stain Trial Members. The real problem here is, what has that to do with people lumping individuals from the past? I would think that you, being one of the very first to leave Curse, would be interested in not being lumped in under a generality. Now, let's stay civil and focused on the subject. I'm still not interested in flaming. It's not the real Lallente. It's just another alt...
Khaerie	Posted - 2005.03.14 18:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Psychopat Edited by: Psychopat on 13/03/2005 23:29:40 I thought you were Xetic Trial members Khaerie? Did the wind blow from a different direction all of a sudden? Never became Xetic Trial Members. We do, however, have the pleasure of being Friends of Xetic. Much like Curse did, it seems many get odd reputations from rumors. I can personally say I have enjoyed keeping my thoughts opened to new experiences. It has greatly increased my enjoyment of the game. Kretchi, I thought I had posted a thank you for correcting me but it seems my computer bugged out on it. I very much appreciate you pointing out that it was an alt. Director of Communications 2nd in Command of Foreign Affairs
admiraligor	Posted - 2005.03.31 21:55:00 - [40] Amen. Good work cyvok; Even though I left eve a couple days ago I completely agree. Also one of the main reasons I left - this game is heading for hell with no hope in sight. (my main account is Sha'Blach) but I recently gave my char to a friend who transfered it to his account

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