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Beyond Oruze and Osobnyk; The Jovian Empires

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 207	Posted - 2012.10.03 13:08:00 - [1] - Quote This really requires a book of it's own.. Gonna take me a while to present this properly.. And I may not have it ALL perfectly in place, yet... The farther I go back in time, the more hazy the picture becomes.. But, here is my Tale of Two Races.. Two races who are represented in the Jovian structure called The Mirror, Terrans and Talocans. Ancient, symbiotic cultures whose origins stretch back to the Terran Solar System. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 207	Posted - 2012.10.03 13:31:00 - [2] - Quote *Reserved* It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Helsdottir Black Mountain Research Inc. 4	Posted - 2012.10.03 22:58:00 - [3] - Quote An excellent start so far. Iam most eager to read more of you adding flesh to the scraps and bones so far provided by CCP storyline-verse.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 213	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:26:00 - [4] - Quote Thank you, my goal is to remain as consistant within the given lore\storyline as much as possible. While remaining vague enough to allow CCP to make changes without making a liar out of me.. I am pretty dead sure of some things and will attempt to prove them using as purely an ingame argument as I can muster.. And kudo's to CCP for keeping me stumped this long.. For example, the Talocan Extraction Silo. Something almost every station in New Eden has in similar form. A Recycling Center. The Talocan model is just mobile. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation 22	Posted - 2012.10.05 11:52:00 - [5] - Quote That is a nice story but it doesnGÇÖt fit into the Eve world. One major problem is the JovianGÇÖs are by far the most primitive races far behind the technology of everyone else at the time the Eve wormhole opened. The Jove in that time frame where minor players.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 215	Posted - 2012.10.05 11:57:00 - [6] - Quote I don't get your point.. They WERE behind everyone else.. Are you arguing against that premise? What makes you suppose they were more advanced? The hints I have seen come out of Templar One suggests they were inferior to the Yan Jungs.. At least in the Yan Jungs minds.. And I really haven't even presented my argument in detail yet.. Ye of little faith.. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation 22	Posted - 2012.10.05 13:16:00 - [7] - Quote Perhaps I didnGÇÖt explain myself very well. I got the impression you described the Talocan as advanced to the point of surpassing there creators the Terreans. You talked about the Talocan creating star gates the back bone of the terran empire. You went on to say the Talocan set out for exploration, and building an infrastructure which humanity can use to exploit the regions of New Eden. ThatGÇÖs all fine the problem is when you said Talocan started calling themselves Jovians which is the bit that does not fit. The Joveians at that timeframe are a primitive group using outdated technology and few ships and do not fit the image you paint of the Talocan. The Jovians did not build infrastructure around the wormhole, they left that to the big races. In the timeframe of the wormhole being opening the Jovians are in no state to build star gates and had to use sleeper pods to move between systems as unlike everyone else they barely had Faster than light travel.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 215	Posted - 2012.10.05 13:23:00 - [8] - Quote Sorry, the Jovians likely began calling themselves Jovians because they evolved into humans on Soekheviti, which I place at Jupiter, where we have the hint of the Europa Yards. It was not because they thought of themselves as gods, but, because they didn't like the tags that humans had given them. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation 24	Posted - 2012.10.05 14:04:00 - [9] - Quote I just went back to re-read the early info on the Jove and I might have underestimated just how backwater the Jove used to be. The Jove are described as the most technological inferior and destitute race of the time (when the Eve wormhole was open). The Jove only had 7 ships that went through the wormhole and those ships could barely hit 0.0025 AUGÇÖs a second, barely faster than the speed of light. This is in a timeframe when the galaxy had been colonised and everyone else was more advanced than our Eve ships of today. The Jove mission was based around cryogenically stored people for their 1 single colony in new Eden. Unlike the other races they choose a system far away from the wormhole and everyone else.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 215	Posted - 2012.10.05 14:08:00 - [10] - Quote Man, I'd love some links to that old stuff, I've never read any of it.. Nor even heard of it, until Borascus related some of it to me recently.. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation 24	Posted - 2012.10.05 15:43:00 - [11] - Quote The Jove info I posted was from 2012 Templar One Novel which I should really have referenced in my first post. Is the old intro still classed as ok or has that been retconed? The first intro gives a bit of info on life and Earth before the wormhole opened.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 215	Posted - 2012.10.05 15:49:00 - [12] - Quote Ahh, haven't read it.. But, I would ask, is it information related to someone by a Jovian.? I doubt they would be completely candid or honest with a human. They have a history of being deceitful.. I was more relating to the preferential treatment expressed in the lore.. At the start of the Gallente-Caldari struggles, the Jovians cut off relations with the Gallente and bestowed pod tech to the Caldari.. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance 56	Posted - 2012.10.05 16:03:00 - [13] - Quote I think some of the most important elements are hard to obtain in the same attention span, you really need to keep an eye on each topic to get the full picture. I'm no mastermind, nor do I fully understand the masterpiece that is EVE's backstory. However, Roga does write a very interesting read, even if its classed as conjecture. A point that re-inforces his reference to retcon's and developments is the subtle evolution of how much each race knew about some of the Chronicles, all in-game NPC's are devoid of the knowledge we get to read in the intergalactic news on the billboards, as they mainly dwell in one place, with their own niche of business occupying their time, unless it comes down the wire or is in the public domain they are able to catch hold of. For an example; in the Regions List there is a reference to all the regions and some of their descriptions. One is Period Basis. It adds a layer to the history by pointing to a dispute about the measurement of Time, finalised aboard a Jovian cruiser named Yoiul . During this dispute; the Arithmetics, the 25ers and the Traditionalists try to establish the predict for the calendar. Here is the quote from the Traditionalists that points to an accurate Jovian nation: Quote: All the races, especially the Jove and the Amarr, had some data on the old calendar and by combining the data it could be remade more or less in its original form. From the above the survivor's; the Jovians, also retained a sizable chunk of historical account, to fill in the blanks. - As it is presented. There is no archaeology mentioned, the plot device maintains that the Jovians were good book keepers and that the reasons for the standard Terran clock we use is part of their consideration. They could easily have argued that historical account was inferior to their enlightened and augmented selves, but they allowed the calendar to maintain its form, even offering to help keep it uniform. The Jovian timeline is the least well known, even though just over 1 hundred years ago, they helped impose the benchmark for the YC calendar. Also offering their records to accurately maintain the historical account that kept consistency, despite their shrouded days. There are regional inconsistencies in the fiction that serve as State accounts, In the armed forces there is a 'type' in the Logistics Corps known as Pioneers, they make outposts in new areas, setting up infrastructure. I think the relationship to the Jove in the Talocan's can be as simple as the story of the Bloodlines, some were in the small colonies and developed into members of the current 4 Empires. Even if the Jovians and Talocan are the same lineage, the historical record wouldn't reflect more information than it currently does. The Jovians have bluffed and deceived New Eden before, and their inferiority at the dawn of New Eden is less important when you consider 'intellectual property rights and copyrights' element of technological development, retning equipment must have transpired in some aspect, or trading between each other. Otherwise they would have been stoways in the New Eden migration. But, at the very opening of the EVE Gate, the timeline has little information from the Jovian perspective. 6 years after the Jovians meet the Gallente (according to the timeline) they close the door, and go meet everyone else during the Gallente-Caldari War. In some of the old stuff technology levels plummeted, from a great height. The backwards Jove were probably a lot less technologically advanced than everyone else, but everyone else fell on their face soon after. If we all fell back to watching TV instead of playing computer games; on the internet, you could say the community had fallen over. It might also be the common limit of experience.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation 29	Posted - 2012.10.05 16:28:00 - [14] - Quote Spoilers alert The book pretty much said the Jove are dead and at one point Concord flat out said the Jove are dead in an internal private concord meeting (North Jove, not sleeper Jove). It was an AI of a Jove that transferred the info. Some of the info came from the Jove AI talking and some came from the Jove memory's that got transferred to the scientist. Although one could argue those memories might be false, I did not get the impression of false memories. On the whole Templar one is consitant with the lore but I did notice a few spots which made me go WTF! I am sure one bit said people colonised and lived in New Eden 1000's of years before the Wormhole opened!
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 220	Posted - 2012.10.05 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote As you say, cryogenics is a staple of early sci fi and space travel.. And a key point in my hypothesis. The Jove that originally came back to the homeworlds came back to a different society than they embarked from.. At some point, the humans thought the Talocan were a bad idea.. Some Talocan might not have come back at all.. That makes sense from a few points of view. Why go back if you find a brave new world? But, then again, if the Jove and Talocan are distinct branches off the same tree, why is the tech of the same quality between Anoikis and New Eden? Cloning is something else I avoided, but, given our own advances in genetics, it is quite likely it existed.. Cryogenic suspension would certainly have played a part in the initial attempts to break out of the Earth Solar System, or the beings that embarked would have had to raise and teach their children the skills to build gates. Cryogenics is a much more logical option. They could have been sterile clones to begin with in that case... It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance 57	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:26:00 - [16] - Quote The main controversy being; Jovians are dead. I'll just point at Dust 514's web page from here tho, the faction page: http://www.dust514.com/universe/factions/ I doubt that kind of factor would hit release and then be classed as wrong, CCP would want to protect the continuity in that respect. Its the difference between Freemasons being large clubs, in the UK at least, with their own lodges and numbers like Lodge 1 in Hertfordshire or Lodge 147 in Warrington, and being the: omnipotent majestic 12..... thousand.... they are accredited with being for imaginative purposes. Then again many guerilla forces go underground, or fight a faceless front, oftentimes in todays age people will state that no such thing exists and find out it does. There is a chronicle called Taught Thoughts, in it Mr. Cromwell (a teacher) has age old traditional teachings... to educate the curriculum with. The curriculum has changed, but the teacher emphasises historical records he knows to be true, but a student decides that he's had enough of the pedantic teacher and offers him to Mentas Blaque's anti-dissident movement. The scene is set around Caldari History and the Rebellion of Cathura, during the Gallente-Caldari War, in a Gallente Class room. The final paragraph and closing sentence is: Quote: I didn't think about it for another second. I walked away, skipped the rest of my classes and headed off-campus, towards downtown. I spoke to authorities in one of the new institutions Mentas Blaque had set up, where I told them the easily verifiable fact that my teacher had gone against curriculum that might be politically sensitive, and the unverifiable lie that when asked who the good guys were, he had answered 'Caldari' without missing a beat. M. Cromwell did not come to class the next morning. This categorically displays strategic information and the volatility of it.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 219	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:50:00 - [17] - Quote Ya, have to disagree emphatically about the Jove being dead, that's a nice little fairytale. As a material race rolling about the cluster, probably, but there are Jovians in the Construct. The pertinant question being, who is in charge..? It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance 58	Posted - 2012.10.05 18:24:00 - [18] - Quote I guess the main argument's for why there are antagonists representing the Jovian way of life and illustrating a female protagonist and a superior need go no further than to observe that the female character needs to be reminded of human sensitivity. Although, I may be relying on the fact that logic is often emotionless, and arrogant leaders often fix a context in a way that only allows two variables before allowing a conclusion to form. It is clear that both characters are written in quotation marks at the end though. The motherships with room for billions of Jovians would surely not have run into yet more trouble, like a renegade Titan, and been forced into subjugation.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 220	Posted - 2012.10.05 18:32:00 - [19] - Quote A logical, emotionless female? It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 330	Posted - 2012.10.06 05:21:00 - [20] - Quote Pottsey wrote: The book pretty much said ... No it is more subtle than that go back and reread it. There also needs to be generally more caution over identity, people can have multiple identities. One persom might be Yorkshire man, Scientist, British, European and Scientist., his neighbour might consider himself, Conservative, English, Christian and Not European. another neighbour might consider himself Scotish Presbyterian, Socialist and European. A foreign observer might Consider them all British and History could classify use all part of the "Western Cultural".

Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 330	Posted - 2012.10.06 05:54:00 - [21] - Quote Borascus wrote: Its the difference between Freemasons being large clubs, in the UK at least, with their own lodges and numbers like Lodge 1 in Hertfordshire or Lodge 147 in Warrington, and being the: omnipotent majestic 12..... thousand.... they are accredited with being for imaginative purposes. This idea is important, consider America today, the only true super power left in the world and they have more Bogeymen than ever, some real, some imagined.
Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 330	Posted - 2012.10.06 06:55:00 - [22] - Quote Consider the Wet Grave Epilogue what is described is similar to Locked-in Syndrome rather than a Persistent Vegetative state. I'm also wondering what those Jovian treatments might be.
Borascus Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance 59	Posted - 2012.10.06 10:37:00 - [23] - Quote Wyke Mossari wrote: Consider the Wet Grave Epilogue what is described is similar to Locked-in Syndrome rather than a Persistent Vegetative state. I'm also wondering what those Jovian treatments might be. Hell yea.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation 31	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:41:00 - [24] - Quote Wyke Mossari wrote: Pottsey wrote: The book pretty much said ... No it is more subtle than that go back and reread it. There also needs to be generally more caution over identity, people can have multiple identities. One persom might be Yorkshire man, Scientist, British, European and Scientist., his neighbour might consider himself, Conservative, English, Christian and Not European. another neighbour might consider himself Scotish Presbyterian, Socialist and European. A foreign observer might Consider them all British and History could classify use all part of the "Western Cultural". I did re read it and it was subtle about the Jove being dead apart from two parts. One bit was the Amaar scientist saying the Jove are extinct the other was the Concord internal meeting where they said flat out the Jove are dead.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 230	Posted - 2012.10.10 14:46:00 - [25] - Quote If the Jove are truly dead and gone, shouldn't someone tell the guys at the Dust website.. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Gussarde en Welle Fruidian Logic The Volition Cult 2	Posted - 2012.10.11 23:44:00 - [26] - Quote No Syncretic religion though please. In real life, religion is rarely syncretic and the idea is so overdone. Choose one church, one nation, not one giant ultra-church controlling everything.
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 235	Posted - 2012.10.13 20:19:00 - [27] - Quote Ya,, that seems to be the player consensus, but, I think the unseen canon argues against it.. As many have said, CCP already has a good overview of the backstory.. Don't think player wishes enter into it much... As they shouldn't.. Take Dust as a good indication of what happens when CCP listens too intently to it's player base.. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance 67	Posted - 2012.10.13 20:31:00 - [28] - Quote Likely watch 4 or 5 different solutions then reverse engineer the available info to something new and baffling :P
Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 340	Posted - 2012.10.14 14:54:00 - [29] - Quote Epsilon Eridani has been suggested as one end of the Eve Gate. I've just found that Babylon 5 is located at Epsilon 3 in the Epsilon Eridani. There are certain obvious homage themes; The Jove and Enheduanni remind me of the Vorlons & Shadows in Babylon 5 in over all theme; The Law vs Chaos, the to visits to younger races as Angels, genetic manipulation, the hands-off influencing to War vs Cooperation. The Minmatar remind me of the Narm The Amarr remind me of the Centari Gallente and Caldari are similar to Earth Alliance Santiargo/Sheridan vs Clarke story line. CONCORD - is like Interstellar alliance. ((BTW Michael O'Hare recently died))
Roga Dracor Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood 236	Posted - 2012.10.14 15:00:00 - [30] - Quote Very much so.. I commented a while back on the similarities between the mobile rogue drone construct in the Sister's arc and the "ancient" races that vie with the alliance and the Vorlons\Shadows at the end of the series, before leaving the galaxy to allow the young races to evolve under their own impetus. Many of these races had evolved into collectives, or hive minds. The series also introduced a religion which I liken to the enigmatic Unified Catholic Church.. It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.



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