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Simon Ijonen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 05:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hope this is the right place to post this.
During my first few days of playing, I elected to go straight for a combat rather than economic roll and after a few low level missions and some ratting I quickly found my favored playstyle was railgun sniping.
Unfortunately I quickly found that among the Caldari ships the best platforms for this were far out of my means and after a brief attempt at mining for it I gave up and left for a few months. However I'm back and plan to sell PLEX or mine to raise the money needed for a Rokh or Naga (and the right fit of course).
My question is would it be wise to purchase a very expensive ship or two without any PVP experience, and limited PVE. Or should I pace myself and practice with a smaller, crappier ship before joining an alliance and jumping into the large PVP battles that I'm looking forward to. I'm worried that i would simply become an expensive and easy target no matter how good my fit.
tl;dr: What happens if a noob gets a fancy battleship after having skipped cruisers, battlecruisers and mid level PVE? |

Dan Carter Murray
150
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 05:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Simon Ijonen wrote:Hope this is the right place to post this.
During my first few days of playing, I elected to go straight for a combat rather than economic roll and after a few low level missions and some ratting I quickly found my favored playstyle was railgun sniping.
Unfortunately I quickly found that among the Caldari ships the best platforms for this were far out of my means and after a brief attempt at mining for it I gave up and left for a few months. However I'm back and plan to sell PLEX or mine to raise the money needed for a Rokh or Naga (and the right fit of course).
My question is would it be wise to purchase a very expensive ship or two without any PVP experience, and limited PVE. Or should I pace myself and practice with a smaller, crappier ship before joining an alliance and jumping into the large PVP battles that I'm looking forward to. I'm worried that i would simply become an expensive and easy target no matter how good my fit.
tl;dr: What happens if a noob gets a fancy battleship after having skipped cruisers, battlecruisers and mid level PVE?
start small and work your way up |

Nihi Lismus
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
81
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 06:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Simon Ijonen wrote:tl;dr: What happens if a noob gets a fancy battleship after having skipped cruisers, battlecruisers and mid level PVE? result: A destroyed Battleship and many tears
go your way up, class by class. learn how to fly with bigger ships and learn how to fit them. |

Simon Ijonen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.10.08 07:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
I suppose a better question would have been how long do most players fly small ships when they intend to move on to large ships and ISK is a none issue (if I end up selling plex). I'm not expecting instant gratification here, and I intended to be cautious about whatever I chose to go with.
On the subject, what is more useful in group PVP?; a destroyer outfitted with t2 railguns as a frigate killer, or a cruiser outfitted as a (mediocre at best) rail sniper? |

galenwade
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 07:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Simon Ijonen wrote:I suppose a better question would have been how long do most players fly small ships when they intend to move on to large ships and ISK is a none issue (if I end up selling plex). I'm not expecting instant gratification here, and I intended to be cautious about whatever I chose to go with.
On the subject, what is more useful in group PVP?; a destroyer outfitted with t2 railguns as a frigate killer, or a cruiser outfitted as a (mediocre at best) rail sniper?
A well fit Frigate or destroyer is better than a semi fit cruiser. Even if you have the isk you are better off working your way up till you are comfortable flying it and losing it .
If you are only at the Frig and dessy stage it isn't hard to cross train for Gallente Frigs and Dessys .
|

Dan Carter Murray
150
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 07:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Simon Ijonen wrote:I suppose a better question would have been how long do most players fly small ships when they intend to move on to large ships and ISK is a none issue (if I end up selling plex). I'm not expecting instant gratification here, and I intended to be cautious about whatever I chose to go with.
On the subject, what is more useful in group PVP?; a destroyer outfitted with t2 railguns as a frigate killer, or a cruiser outfitted as a (mediocre at best) rail sniper?
IMO fly frig/destroyer until all support skills are lvl 4 then move up to cruisers or AFs. Enjoy cruisers as long as you want (personally enjoy cruisers most). Hop into BC once comfortable in cruisers. Maybe assault cruiser first, but BC is much cheaper. Then maybe go back and train for another race to see which you like best (a lot of people like minmatar ships for obvious reasons). I would wait on BS though since I get personally don't get as much enjoyment above cruiser hull.
Edit: I wouldn't move up hull size without t2 guns. Again, just my opinion. |

Simon Ijonen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 07:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
My skill isn't that low, I had plenty of time to let it train while i mined space pebbles for slave wages. I could actually fit an (apparently hated) ferox BC with t2 hybrids and fly it (might make a good blaster boat with shield tanking?). I'm just unsure about what sort of actual experience would be needed before bringing a shiny BC or BB in for sniping. |

Sakiya Shiratori
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 07:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you are Caldari I recommend that you start with the Harpy. One of the only remaining sniper frigates.
It has two optimal range bonuses and can get an optimal of 73K or so with 150mm and spike. Probably 80k+ with rigs and TE.
What's more important is that you can fight outside scram range with antimatter. Very good kiting ship |

Raiko Osburn
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 08:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Simon Ijonen wrote:I suppose a better question would have been how long do most players fly small ships when they intend to move on to large ships and ISK is a none issue (if I end up selling plex). I'm not expecting instant gratification here, and I intended to be cautious about whatever I chose to go with.
On the subject, what is more useful in group PVP?; a destroyer outfitted with t2 railguns as a frigate killer, or a cruiser outfitted as a (mediocre at best) rail sniper?
In case of PvE it depends on missions you are doing.
Level 1 missions - frigates/destroyers Level 2 missions - destroyers/cruisers Level 3 missions - cruisers/battlecruisers Level 4 missions - Battleships
As you move to higher mission level, you will change ship class. It will take you time to get to level 4 missions as you need standings with corporation you are working with. Use this time to improve your core skills, gunnery skills and drone skills. If you are goin after Rokh, look at certifications tab at Rokh info page. It will give you basic idea what skills you should know to fly ship well.
In case of group PvP it all depends on group setup. Every ship has its use and you can't simply say this ship is the best. |

Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
260
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 09:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP is making lot of frigate and cruiser changes in next expansion , so something smaller may be available then for railgun sniping.
|

Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 09:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nowadays, a lot of PVP fleets use the Tier-3 battlecruisers as their core; in your case, that would probably mean the Naga (or the Talos, which is roughly equivalent, somewhat better at closer ranges). But if you're worried about the affordability of a single Naga (or a Rokh, which is something like twice as expensive for the base hull), then you should definitely wait a while. If you take a ship out in a PVP fleet - whether it's a battlecruiser or battleship - you should be flying it with the expectation that you're going to lose it.
And the Caldari heavy rail snipers aren't really good for PVE, either. The Rokh doesn't have the drone support to handle hostile frigate rats in mission environments, and the Naga's tank is about as robust as a beer can (plus which, the Naga doesn't have any drones at all). |

The VC's
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 11:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Simon Ijonen wrote:I suppose a better question would have been how long do most players fly small ships when they intend to move on to large ships and ISK is a none issue (if I end up selling plex). I'm not expecting instant gratification here, and I intended to be cautious about whatever I chose to go with.
On the subject, what is more useful in group PVP?; a destroyer outfitted with t2 railguns as a frigate killer, or a cruiser outfitted as a (mediocre at best) rail sniper? IMO fly frig/destroyer until all support skills are lvl 4 then move up to cruisers or AFs. Enjoy cruisers as long as you want (personally enjoy cruisers most). Hop into BC once comfortable in cruisers. Maybe assault cruiser first, but BC is much cheaper. Then maybe go back and train for another race to see which you like best (a lot of people like minmatar ships for obvious reasons). I would wait on BS though since I get personally don't get as much enjoyment above cruiser hull. Edit: I wouldn't move up hull size without t2 guns. Again, just my opinion.
This is good advice.
I'll echo it to add that I've been playing for over three years now and I rarely fly anything bigger than a cruiser. You may find a frigate or cruiser underpinned by good support skills (nav, gunnery, tank etc) more rewarding than a big powerful ship.
Cheaper too
|

feihcsiM
Last Exit For The Lost Dark Therapy
61
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 11:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
The traditional advice was always to fit out a load of rifters, saddle up and go get used to fighting, being in fleets, using D-scan etc etc. The idea behind it is that you lose a lot, but they're cheap and you learn something every time.
I would still recommend doing the same thing, but nowadays use a condor. It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |

Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
131
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 12:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
The main questions you have to answer are:
- Where do you want to PVP? High-Sec? Low-Sec Piracy? Low-Sec Faction Warefare? 0.0? Wormholes?
- Are you going solo or in small or large fleet?
Depending on the answers to the above questions you should choose your ship class, type and fitting. Here are just two examples:
- If you go for Low-Sec Faction Warefare and solo with the idea to catch something in a plex, then a BS is definatelly the wrong choice. If you want to go snipy then Nano-Arty-Cynabal is the way to go.
- If you go for Low-Sec Piracy in a small fleet then a BS is a good choice. You will have someone else with a fast point, so what you really need to bother about is DPS and tanking of sentry guns.
The main message for you, as long as you have no clue what you want to do exactly and what the best implementation of this is what you want to do, better stick which cheap stuff until you have gained some ideas and experience. PVP can be really frustrating and expensive if done wrong. |

Mike Whiite
Keystone Industrial
70
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 13:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bigger doesn't always mean better.
Naga isn't a PvE ship,
Rokh has limited PvE use (Incursions)
PvP
Battleships are usualy only used in 0.0 PvP Fleet Battles
Battlescruisers are the Norm.
Secondly while you might be able to gain the minimal requirements to fly a Battleship pretty fast you'll have probblems with: -Powergrid -CPU -Cap -Tank -Tracking -Damage
Turning it in a rather expencive ire cracker.
In your case.
Caldari PvE -> Missiles Want to stick to Gunnery (Hybrides) Go Gallente of Minmatar
PvP by 20 Merlins and go have fun, Join FW or RvB to be taught the tricks of the trade.
EVE rule number 1 : Don't fly what you can't aford to lose.
|

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
18
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sprinting up into a Battleship and fitting it with low end modules and just enough skills to fit it and then losing the damn thing in glorious fashion is the closest thing to a galactic pastime as we ever get in EvE. Go for it! |

aoe dps
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 16:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
What people are saying sounds like good advice: get into small ships, work their core and support (gunnery, engineering, electronics, mechanics) skills for a while, until all 4 like my first toon, or all 5 like subsequent ones, then slowly work up to larger ships where the investment in support skills will pay off significantly. This way you don't die and loose all you isk tied up in ships/modules and while earning isk you gain a respect for the economy and valuation of actual items.
HOWEVER
When I was starting, a short two years ago, the standard cry was to pick a class either, armor or shields, and race to battlecruiser 4. This way you can handle any mission levels (4's become hard/impossible and inspire BS training) without breaking the bank on a hull. Most BC have enough slots to fit to deal with small and large ships and provide enough tank. Furthermore, the new tier3 BC's will give you something to immediately test out large weapon systems once trained for, without the need to invest isk/training into BS skills. This is the route I took, and was pleased with the results. Infuse yourself from the sale of one PLEX (when I did that it was 334mil per plex lol), fit a mission BC, and try to earn the hull price (remember to subtract ammo costs). This will keep the cost/payout for missions relevant.
I decided PvE sucked and jumped directly into a nullsec alliance when I could fly a properly fit T2 BS (amarr born, so abaddon was my first). They usually have opportunities for people who are not ready for fleet-fit ship specs, although they may not be covered under ship replacement. Just go out and fly/die, listen to the FC, learn (for god sake) how to differentiate the words and buttans for "hold" "warp" and "jump" (its apparently harder than it sounds), and you'll have a good time. Plus null PvE can actually support your losses of BC/BS much faster imo than missions.
God my 2c grew to 20isk I am good investor. i am a posting alt. "He doesn't believe in taking into consideration any facts that might detract from his argument" |

Simon Ijonen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 17:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
aoe dps wrote:What people are saying sounds like good advice: get into small ships, work their core and support (gunnery, engineering, electronics, mechanics) skills for a while, until all 4 like my first toon, or all 5 like subsequent ones, then slowly work up to larger ships where the investment in support skills will pay off significantly. This way you don't die and loose all you isk tied up in ships/modules and while earning isk you gain a respect for the economy and valuation of actual items.
HOWEVER
When I was starting, a short two years ago, the standard cry was to pick a class either, armor or shields, and race to battlecruiser 4. This way you can handle any mission levels (4's become hard/impossible and inspire BS training) without breaking the bank on a hull. Most BC have enough slots to fit to deal with small and large ships and provide enough tank. Furthermore, the new tier3 BC's will give you something to immediately test out large weapon systems once trained for, without the need to invest isk/training into BS skills. This is the route I took, and was pleased with the results. Infuse yourself from the sale of one PLEX (when I did that it was 334mil per plex lol), fit a mission BC, and try to earn the hull price (remember to subtract ammo costs). This will keep the cost/payout for missions relevant.
I decided PvE sucked and jumped directly into a nullsec alliance when I could fly a properly fit T2 BS (amarr born, so abaddon was my first). They usually have opportunities for people who are not ready for fleet-fit ship specs, although they may not be covered under ship replacement. Just go out and fly/die, listen to the FC, learn (for god sake) how to differentiate the words and buttans for "hold" "warp" and "jump" (its apparently harder than it sounds), and you'll have a good time. Plus null PvE can actually support your losses of BC/BS much faster imo than missions.
God my 2c grew to 20isk I am good investor.
This sounds like the advice I will take based on everyone's comments. I could easily get a T1 BC and a good fitting in a weekend of mining.
I must have made myself out to be more new than I am as many people think that I am just out of destroyers training wise. Combat experience and naivety is my only real problem. Though the buying of a fleet of cheap frigs and destroyers and jumping in headfirst to PVP could be fun as well even if I will get podkilled a few times. |

Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration
41
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 22:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
You will learn more about how PVP works and function if you go out in small ships that you can fit well and have good skills for than jumping into big fleets where PVP basically = press F1.
Once you 'know' pvp then you can decide at what lvl of pvp you are most at home with. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
461
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 01:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
On the whole wildly irrelevant advice.
The key skill lacking is in front of keyboard. You will develop your skills only by PVPing. This is best done by joining a corp (RvB, EVE Uni luls, or a FW corp) which regularly PVPs, has good mentors (not RvB, probably not EVE Uni, tbh), and accepts noobs (not most FW corps). The ships are irrelevant to this, aside from the obvious fact frigs are cheaper than BSs.
I am crap at frigate combat, but good at cruiser/BC combat. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and skill your toon accordingly. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
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Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 02:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Simon Ijonen wrote:Hope this is the right place to post this.
During my first few days of playing, I elected to go straight for a combat rather than economic roll and after a few low level missions and some ratting I quickly found my favored playstyle was railgun sniping.
Unfortunately I quickly found that among the Caldari ships the best platforms for this were far out of my means and after a brief attempt at mining for it I gave up and left for a few months. However I'm back and plan to sell PLEX or mine to raise the money needed for a Rokh or Naga (and the right fit of course).
My question is would it be wise to purchase a very expensive ship or two without any PVP experience, and limited PVE. Or should I pace myself and practice with a smaller, crappier ship before joining an alliance and jumping into the large PVP battles that I'm looking forward to. I'm worried that i would simply become an expensive and easy target no matter how good my fit.
tl;dr: What happens if a noob gets a fancy battleship after having skipped cruisers, battlecruisers and mid level PVE?
A sniper Corm can do 120dps out to 100km.
Problem solved.
|

Garresh
Deep Axion Ushra'Khan
65
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 03:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Battleships are overrated. 90% of what I do is in a frigate. The other 10% in a cruiser. |
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