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Eve is not IKEA - deal with it

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 275	Posted - 2012.10.09 20:55:00 - [1] - Quote TLDR: Read the title. Quote: Everything in EVE is PVP. Deal with it. This is a comment I gleaned from a "click here to read my blog" thread which is, as much as it might hurt some to hear, the crux, the POINT of Eve. I totally agree. In the context of the thread it came from however, PvP is being coralled into a singular "ship v ship" argument. This is where it's wrong. - Johnny Reb orbiting MaverickMan firing lasers is PvP+¡ng. - Nullseccer A taking sov from Nullseccer B for the purpose of having more T-Moons is PvP+¡ng. However, - Miner X, racing to get his minerals to market and under-cutting Miner Y is PvP'ing. - Indy C, researching a BPO to be a better ME than Indy D is PvP'ing. i.e. PvP is NOT restricted to ship v ship - it's relative to the individual. As it should be. In recent days, I am seeing a belligerent POV (from only a few it must be said) that CCP is dumbing down Eve, turning it into a carebear heaven yaddy ya. I am even seeing fairly strong reactions from CCP locking threads against this belligerence and getting pretty pointed as to why. Eve-O modding seems to be shifting stance from being fairly apolitical to fairly pointed - perhaps defensively - perhaps they are calling BS for BS when it is - a good thing too imho. And really, it is all getting a bit stupid. CCP, is, from my where I stand, simply quantifying what PvP should be in highsec, the "safer environment". They are putting some wrappers around some rather confusing aggression mechanics in highsec that for mine, have been stumbling blocks to inject and RETAIN noobs into the game. HS is MEANT to be safer. The angst against changes to make HS rules clearer and perhaps, more consensually based is keeping me quite bemused. Why? Reality check: The person paying the sub that presses F1 to add a mark to his KB pays exactly the same amount of money as the person who presses F1 to kill a roid or an NPC. If a miner for example strips every belt and dumps to market, other miners pay the price - that's THEIR problem. They can outstrip him, cut the price, whatever. He's PvP'ing. He can in fact, kill him or hire someone to do so. Put bluntly, "Everything in Eve is PvP" as meaning "you HAVE to asplode" is plain and simply wrong. Eve as a whole is not an IKEA store where you can expect every item in every store to be exactly the same. It's NOT a convenience store where you, the ganker, the PvP'er, use the safety of Concord so YOU can move around "safely" and then bemoan the user who stays in HS, also using Concord to "safely" move around. As much as anyone has the right to say "FITE MY FRIG NOOB", MinerMan, MissionMan and IndyMan have the rght to say "NO, SORRY, I'M BUSY UNDERCUTTING PLAYER X". Who said YOU decide? And really, trying to make HS as "dangerous" and as "PvP centric" (by the incorrect definition) as LS and 0.0 would turn Eve into an IKEA store where everything is the same. If that isn't "dumbing it down" then what the hell is? I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Jim Era 4332	Posted - 2012.10.09 20:58:00 - [2] - Quote wat no eve is ikea
Jada Maroo Mysterium Astrometrics 849	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:00:00 - [3] - Quote Everything in Eve is made by IKEA. Just look at the difference in volume between packed an unpacked ships.
Lord Ryan True Xero 700	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:01:00 - [4] - Quote Nerf U Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 922	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:01:00 - [5] - Quote IKEA is efficient, dude. Where else can you shop for furniture and have dinner in the same store? http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 275	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:09:00 - [6] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: IKEA is efficient, dude. Where else can you shop for furniture and have dinner in the same store? You get it. And the gankers - the ONLY ones affected by HS changes are too lazy to buy their furniture at the furniture store and walk across the road to get a feed. So the rest of us have to listen to all the drivel about it? I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Lord Ryan True Xero 700	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:10:00 - [7] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: IKEA is efficient, dude. Where else can you shop for furniture and have dinner in the same store? Walmart. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
BORRIS DEMONTFORD THE OFFENDERS 4	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:19:00 - [8] - Quote What about if you don't undock, is it still not ikea?

ISD TYPE40 ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1557	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:19:00 - [9] - Quote Ok, thread cleaned of off topic posts. Please respect other forum users and try to post sensibly, thank you - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 323	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:20:00 - [10] - Quote Did all the replies just vanish?
Dyvim Slorm Frozen Moon Conglomerate Forsaken Generation Coalition 39	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:20:00 - [11] - Quote Eve is definitely not IKEA. I went to my local shop and got some very funny looks when I asked where the microwarpdrives were kept. Back OT, tend to agree with OP
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 276	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:32:00 - [12] - Quote BORRIS DEMONTFORD wrote: What about if you don't undock, is it still not ikea? I heard (last night to be exact) that IKEA doesn't have windows in their stores to inhibit the sense of "natural passing of time". Maybe station camping all day is a direct result of no windows on the stations. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 162	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:40:00 - [13] - Quote If Eve was IKEA, You would recieve error messages during new ship assembly stating that you have hardware missing. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Ioci Bad Girl Posse 209	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:44:00 - [14] - Quote I don't get the Ikea comparison but you can condense your statement to this: Competition vs conflict. Are they both PvP? If yes, HS is competition PvP, Null is conflict PvP. If you don't see competition as PvP then high sec is a haven from conflict PvP and nothing more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk Save Derpy!
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 1923	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:50:00 - [15] - Quote "Market PVP is PVP, therefore there is nothing wrong with making highsec based exclusively around market PVP and grinding" lol
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 1923	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:53:00 - [16] - Quote Ioci wrote: I don't get the Ikea comparison but you can condense your statement to this: Competition vs conflict. Are they both PvP? If yes, HS is competition PvP, Null is conflict PvP. If you don't see competition as PvP then high sec is a haven from conflict PvP and nothing more. Does this mean I get ships and modules for free out of the air because I'm in nullsec and therefore not in 'competition PVP" as you define it?
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 323	Posted - 2012.10.09 21:59:00 - [17] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Ioci wrote: I don't get the Ikea comparison but you can condense your statement to this: Competition vs conflict. Are they both PvP? If yes, HS is competition PvP, Null is conflict PvP. If you don't see competition as PvP then high sec is a haven from conflict PvP and nothing more. Does this mean I get ships and modules for free out of the air because I'm in nullsec and therefore not in 'competition PVP" as you define it? As long as the complete removal of all highsec aggression (actual, not "effective") is coupled with it, it makes sense.
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 279	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:07:00 - [18] - Quote Ioci wrote: I don't get the Ikea comparison but you can condense your statement to this: Competition vs conflict. Are they both PvP? If yes, HS is competition PvP, Null is conflict PvP. If you don't see competition as PvP then high sec is a haven from conflict PvP and nothing more. A point so often discarded (and it amuses me) is that conflict PvP in HS is consensual already. The ability to "evade" PvP in HS is ONLY applicable when Ship V Ship is the only context. Even IN the context of Ship V Ship, for a dime, there are hundreds of people who will readily pop you. The reason it doesn't happen is because - for most of us - there is no reason to. Let's face it, the argument that competition PvP MUST be subject to conflict PvP is coming from one VERY SMALL GROUP - i.e. the gankers. Nobody else actually cares. Gankers want highsec to be a shooting gallery like lowsec and 0.0 but they want it in highsec - so they themselves can enjoy the safety of Concord - kinda ironic when you think about it. We need to be asking what the motivation is for not accepting consensual PvP in HS - the "safer environment" Is it:- 1) Profit? They can kill miners in 0.0, lowsec. Better outcomes, less consequence. 2) KM accumulation? Why HS? Can get that anywhere. 3) Because PvP must be Ship V Ship? Says who? 4) They are too lazy or too scared to seek real fights? 5) Bullied as children? You know, revenge of the nerds style. 6) Just wanna be a ****? Need to break down what the reasoning behind the angst is first and then seek to address it. Simply saying "they shouldn't be allowed to enjoy their game because I'm not" is kinda lame when it's put into context. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 4994	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:31:00 - [19] - Quote I'm pretty sure IKEA is in our EVE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwnrlEGCKwU GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Follow me on Twitter @Chribba

Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 279	Posted - 2012.10.09 22:34:00 - [20] - Quote Chribba wrote: I'm pretty sure IKEA is in our EVE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwnrlEGCKwU /c Fixed it for ya and thx for the linky - stranger things...... Should I amend my title? I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 65	Posted - 2012.10.10 00:34:00 - [21] - Quote Chribba wrote: I'm pretty sure IKEA is in our EVE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwnrlEGCKwU wut ............... nice edit
Mars Theran Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 346	Posted - 2012.10.10 00:54:00 - [22] - Quote I hate to interject, but what you're saying is EVE is all Player vs. Player. Where does the teamwork come in if that's the case? ..Teamwork is the opposite of PvP by nature. The antithesis even. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
James 315 Experimental Fun Times Corp 2928	Posted - 2012.10.10 00:55:00 - [23] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: HS is MEANT to be safer. The angst against changes to make HS rules clearer and perhaps, more consensually based is keeping me quite bemused. Why? I don't know, tell us why are you quite bemused? -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½ The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range.
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 248	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:05:00 - [24] - Quote High 'Security'. Security being the operative word. If High Sec isn't secure, it isn't High Sec. People can quibble about what EVE should or shouldn't be but I think that part is pretty self explanatory.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1562	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:11:00 - [25] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Gankers want highsec to be a shooting gallery like lowsec and 0.0 but they want it in highsec - so they themselves can enjoy the safety of Concord - kinda ironic when you think about it. Hahaha, That's pretty nice. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Lord Ryan True Xero 701	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:12:00 - [26] - Quote Thread is corrupted and invalid Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Vertisce Soritenshi Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 1780	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:37:00 - [27] - Quote Well...if EVE were IKEA it would all be Minmatar crap. Just saying... EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:57:00 - [28] - Quote Lord Ryan wrote: Thread is corrupted and invalid Your comment is appreciated, but invalid. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Lord Ryan True Xero 701	Posted - 2012.10.10 02:43:00 - [29] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Lord Ryan wrote: Thread is corrupted and invalid Your comment is appreciated, but invalid. but not corrupted yet. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.10.10 02:52:00 - [30] - Quote Lord Ryan wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Lord Ryan wrote: Thread is corrupted and invalid Your comment is appreciated, but invalid. but not corrupted yet. lol. not yet. but keep poasting I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.

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