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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
426
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote: Yes, it is what i call transparency. Discussions are ongoing via NDA channels. Other than telling you it's something the CSM was arguing about with CCP what more could I say you think needs to be heard? You wanted a position, an idea of our reaction. Not sure how anyone could read my post as anything but a public criticism, so I'll leave the rest of the bloviating alone.
We want you to tell us what each CSM member thinks about this issue so we know who we have to crucify if Crimewatch turns out to be ****.
More transparency = better informed voters on the next CSM elections (the horror) = more accountability.
The Summit minutes were a step in the right direction but now you are just trying to hide under the protection of the amorphous "the CSM" again. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
426
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
What you should do is to speak to CCP as one voice (to maximize impact) but to make each CSM member's individual opinions completely transparent to your electorate (so we can make informed decisions come election day).
What you actually do is to present CCP with diluted and conflicting messages while hiding behind the collective when communicating with your voters. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
36
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 17:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:CSM 7 is being very transparent, you are just using some bizarre filter to pretend we aren't engaging the community. Appearing on a podcast is not necessarily transparency. Telling some podcast guy that "we spend a lot of time on Skype" is not transparent. What are you talking about? What did you agree with? What did you disagree with? With the NDA for Retribution beginning to fall by the wayside (devblogs should invalidate NDAs, because the info is now out in the open), the CSM should begin detailing their opinions on the new features, the good and the bad, especially where they told CCP there would be problems, etc. That gives us a fuller picture of how well each CSM member actually understands the game and their area of interest, and how well they are representing the playerbase. NDAs don't end when the information becomes publicly available, they end when either the NDA says they end or when the signatory is told they may talk about it. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1437
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 20:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Abyssum Invocat wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:CSM 7 is being very transparent, you are just using some bizarre filter to pretend we aren't engaging the community. Appearing on a podcast is not necessarily transparency. Telling some podcast guy that "we spend a lot of time on Skype" is not transparent. What are you talking about? What did you agree with? What did you disagree with? With the NDA for Retribution beginning to fall by the wayside (devblogs should invalidate NDAs, because the info is now out in the open), the CSM should begin detailing their opinions on the new features, the good and the bad, especially where they told CCP there would be problems, etc. That gives us a fuller picture of how well each CSM member actually understands the game and their area of interest, and how well they are representing the playerbase. NDAs don't end when the information becomes publicly available, they end when either the NDA says they end or when the signatory is told they may talk about it. CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why.
Amarr Militia |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1437
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 20:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:What you should do is to speak to CCP as one voice (to maximize impact) but to make each CSM member's individual opinions completely transparent to your electorate (so we can make informed decisions come election day). I was pleased to see Hans taking a first step in this direction today, discussing his opinions on ECM and the upcoming changes.
http://hansshotfirst.blogspot.ca/2012/11/the-permaproblem.html
Granted, it's not a strong-opinion, and it's carefully worded to avoid too much criticism of CCP ... but it is a step in the right direction. It might be too little too late ... but there's still time for him to go more fully into the entire expansion. Amarr Militia |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
724
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 20:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect
Let's have some Poetic transparency. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1437
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 20:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect. Let's have some Poetic transparency. Wow. You really put me in my place.
(Is there somebody in your alliance who keeps telling you how great you are at sh!t-talking? Because they are trolling you.) Amarr Militia |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
36
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 07:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Abyssum Invocat wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:CSM 7 is being very transparent, you are just using some bizarre filter to pretend we aren't engaging the community. Appearing on a podcast is not necessarily transparency. Telling some podcast guy that "we spend a lot of time on Skype" is not transparent. What are you talking about? What did you agree with? What did you disagree with? With the NDA for Retribution beginning to fall by the wayside (devblogs should invalidate NDAs, because the info is now out in the open), the CSM should begin detailing their opinions on the new features, the good and the bad, especially where they told CCP there would be problems, etc. That gives us a fuller picture of how well each CSM member actually understands the game and their area of interest, and how well they are representing the playerbase. NDAs don't end when the information becomes publicly available, they end when either the NDA says they end or when the signatory is told they may talk about it. CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why. Then make complaints to CCP or contact a representative on the CSM who you are on good terms with and get some answers or changes.
Do we have any CSM members here who would volunteer to bring this issue up with CCP? |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
36
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 07:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect. Let's have some Poetic transparency. Wow. You really put me in my place. (Is somebody in your alliance telling you that you're great at sh!t-talking? Because they are trolling you, dude. You're terrible at it. Do your reputation a favour, stop now.) Poetic, you need to harden up and leave the trash talk and personal attacks by the wayside. Trust me when I say this, you are destroying your credibility with this kind of posting. You do not need to polarize everyone into being with you or against you. Please don't take this as an attack, it is one community writer advising another. You need to calm down and take these topics more tactfully if you want to report your findings to everyone and have them listen, because this kind of tone is one I see often from you and it serves more to isolate your points of view then to share or elucidate any possible findings. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5086
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
ITT: "The CSM doesn't want to spend hours responding to one sperglord, therefore it's a secret cabal of HATE" MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5092
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
I hereby promise that, should I be elected to CSM8, I will not respond to a single* Poetic Stanzel post relating to the CSM
*Disclaimer: unless he makes an interesting or relevent post. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
2010
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 13:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why.
The NDA's that the CSM members sign are effective for five (5) years. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1442
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why. The NDA's that the CSM members sign are effective for five (5) years. So, you're not allowed to talk about the new Bounty System for five years?
Amarr Militia |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
156
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 00:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Seleene wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why. The NDA's that the CSM members sign are effective for five (5) years. So, you're not allowed to talk about the new Bounty System for five years? No, it means the NDA is effective for five years. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1442
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 00:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Seleene wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why. The NDA's that the CSM members sign are effective for five (5) years. So, you're not allowed to talk about the new Bounty System for five years? No, it means the NDA is effective for five years. But they weren't allowed to talk about the bounty system while it was under development, because of the NDA.
I'm just saying, there comes a point where development comes out of the purview of the NDA, and the CSM can talk about it.
I'd like to see the CSM start talking about development that's been devblogged, because it seems at that point, they should be free to talk about it, give their honest opinions of it, etc. Amarr Militia |
Tech3ZH
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 01:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
Poetic, I'm going to vote for you when you run for CSM8 just to see if you will do all the things that you bust the chops of the CSM over.
I mean, c'mon m8, I admire your passion and obvious desire to be involved, but this isn't a RL parliament or something. This is an unpaid, volunteer group of our fellow players giving their time to the game we all like.
This is a fun game, but it is still just a game. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1442
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 04:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tech3ZH wrote:This is an unpaid, volunteer group of our fellow players giving their time to the game we all like. Would it kill them to tell the people they voted for how they feel about the features CCP are rolling out?
Amarr Militia |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
38
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 05:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Seleene wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why. The NDA's that the CSM members sign are effective for five (5) years. So, you're not allowed to talk about the new Bounty System for five years? No, it means the NDA is effective for five years. But they weren't allowed to talk about the bounty system while it was under development, because of the NDA. I'm just saying, there comes a point where development comes out of the purview of the NDA, and the CSM can talk about it. I'd like to see the CSM start talking about development that's been devblogged, because it seems at that point, they should be free to talk about it, give their honest opinions of it, etc. They can't talk about it while the NDA is active until they are told they can. Please go research NDAs before laying blame every which way. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
516
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 07:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Poetic, if you actually care about the specific limitations or scope of the NDA, you might as well just get in touch with CCP (a la Nicolo Di'Vicenza during the vote reform nonsense), since it's clear at this point the CSM isn't interested in addressing that point at all.
Of course, that's assuming you can find a way to work that into yet another pompous self-serving blog post that will no doubt end up crossposted here. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1442
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 08:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Of course, that's assuming you can find a way to work that into yet another pompous self-serving blog post that will no doubt end up crossposted here. It's good to be able to look forward to nice things.
Amarr Militia |
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Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
639
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 14:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Of course, that's assuming you can find a way to work that into yet another pompous self-serving blog post that will no doubt end up crossposted here. It's good to be able to look forward to nice things. Thanksgiving and Christmas?
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5107
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 15:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Or even shutupmas MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
732
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 16:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Tech3ZH wrote:This is an unpaid, volunteer group of our fellow players giving their time to the game we all like. Would it kill them to tell the people they voted for how they feel about the features CCP are rolling out? someone doesnt listen to the podcast ;p "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1442
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 20:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Tech3ZH wrote:This is an unpaid, volunteer group of our fellow players giving their time to the game we all like. Would it kill them to tell the people they voted for how they feel about the features CCP are rolling out? someone doesnt listen to the podcast ;p I've listened to your podcast twice (once when you had Ripard and once when you had Pinky as guests), but your voice grates the hell on my nerves. It has a very whiny quality to it. Anytime you get excited about something, it's like nails on a chalkboard.
But you know what ... the forums are where you connect with the most number of players. I doubt even 10% of the players that you can reach on the forums even listen to your (or know you have a) podcast. Amarr Militia |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
40
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 21:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Tech3ZH wrote:This is an unpaid, volunteer group of our fellow players giving their time to the game we all like. Would it kill them to tell the people they voted for how they feel about the features CCP are rolling out? someone doesnt listen to the podcast ;p I've listened to your podcast twice (once when you had Ripard and once when you had Pinky as guests), but your voice grates the hell on my nerves. It has a very whiny quality to it. Anytime you get excited about something, it's like nails on a chalkboard. But you know what ... the forums are where you connect with the most number of players. I doubt even 10% of the players that you can reach on the forums even listen to your (or know you have a) podcast. Let's be clear here, you're launching some kind of a smear campaign over the fact that elected representatives aren't being transparent about things that would be illegal for them to be transparent about, and for being transparent about the things that they can in a media format that you don't like? I'm just trying to sum all this up. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2189
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 22:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
So I'll make this offer. If you'd like to provide a list of what you want my (and I mean MY, not the CSMs) opinion about I'm happy to answer. Feel free to ask for as much or as little detail as you'd like. I'm currently likely one of the least interesting CSMs at the moment but I'm happy to share what I think about Eve now and in the future with anyone interested in reading it. And again, this are my opinions and also in no way reflect how the other CSM should choose to communicate.
By the way I started to try and blog and after virtually NO visits I decided not to continue. If someone wants me to try that again let me know.
So the floor is open for questions. :-)
Issler |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
518
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 22:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
Abyssum Invocat wrote:Let's be clear here, you're launching some kind of a smear campaign over the fact that elected representatives aren't being transparent about things that would be illegal for them to be transparent about, and for being transparent about the things that they can in a media format that you don't like? I'm just trying to sum all this up.
Not to defend him, but he'd probably settle for "actually sharing their opinion on upcoming announced game changes without having to be shamed into doing it". Even if he wants more, that'd probably be a good place to start.
Issler Dainze wrote:So I'll make this offer. If you'd like to provide a list of what you want my (and I mean MY, not the CSMs) opinion about I'm happy to answer.
I'll start!
"Retribution" |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1443
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 23:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:He'd probably settle for "actually sharing their opinion on upcoming announced game changes without having to be shamed into doing it". Even if he wants more, that'd probably be a good place to start. Exactly what I'm asking for.
I'm not asking for their opinion on POS revamp development, because that hasn't been released by CCP, thus still under heavy NDA.
Bounties, Crimewatch, new UI elements, faction warfare changes, etc. have all been talked about by CCP in devblogs, thus I can't see any problem with the CSM now discussing the content of those devblogs and weighing in with their actual opinions on the announced changes.
Amarr Militia |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1443
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 23:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:So the floor is open for questions. :-) You opinions on:
Bounties Crimewatch Faction Warfare changes Ship Rebalancing The UI updates
Give specific examples where you're keen on the changes, and where you have reservations or are downright annoyed with the changes.
PS When are you joining faction warfare?
Amarr Militia |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2189
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 08:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:So the floor is open for questions. :-) You opinions on: Bounties Crimewatch Faction Warfare changes Ship Rebalancing The UI updates Give specific examples where you're keen on the changes, and where you have reservations or are downright annoyed with the changes. PS When are you joining faction warfare?
Quick answer of the last question (I want to spend a little more time on the rest).
My alt corp and alt combat characters are in FW now. Look for Denze Ezzle and the Freespacer Confederation to be in the Mim side. Also putting another alt in the fray as part the Ammar to try and understand how the experiences differ.
I'll have answers for the rest tomorrow (heading to bed as my new job has early morning hours).
Issler |
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