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zatazon Z's Corp 22	Posted - 2012.10.14 13:47:00 - [1] - Quote I know there are other posts out there comparing these 2 ships but everything I have seen just says what are you shooting at, or its weak to EM/Therm go Nightmare, or it resists EM/Therm go Mach. Well I want the fun answer. I have Caldari BS 5 and Gallente 4 and while I enjoy flying my SNI, N Domi, and Rattler I am ready to go play with something else but I cant decide what. I have pretty decent gunnery skills shocking I know since I fly missile boats mostly. I am not worried about what I will be shooting with these more just which would be more fun to fly or more all around useful. I can be in either one in about 4 days, I can put T1 guns w/ either T2 shield tank or a 50/50 T1/T2 armor tank on either ship. I am a little closer to getting T2 Arty and ACs than lazors but I'm not too worried aboutt he training time difference. If you got any questions let me know, otherwise I look forward to hearing feed backs.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4902	Posted - 2012.10.14 14:24:00 - [2] - Quote Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts. Let's face it, all the gun-focused pirate BS are fun to fly. And each if them is superior in it's own niche. Sansha Pirate Invasion? Long range EM-weak rats mean that Nothing will touch the Nightmare. Angel Extravaganza? Mach > all for getting up clase and personal with Angels. Warping in the Vindicator to Guristas Assault or Serpentis Extravaganza will bring you win. And so on. If you want a "one size fits all" Pirate BS, then the Mach is obviously it. But hey, if you're cheaping out here, just get a damb CNR, right? [Vindicator, Windicator] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Internal Force Field Array I Core B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Domination Stasis Webifier Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x4 MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
zatazon Z's Corp 22	Posted - 2012.10.14 14:35:00 - [3] - Quote Hadn't considered a vindicator I will have to check the training time and see what skills id need for it too. Actually I believe you have helped me decide, if I get Minmatar BS then I can fly a Vindi which I can completely T2 fit already and then I can start working on a T2 fit for the Mach.
Hongus Gwag Hedion University Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2012.10.14 15:39:00 - [4] - Quote nice, the NM vs mach topics usually last a whole lot longer than this and rarely come to a conclusion.
zatazon Z's Corp 22	Posted - 2012.10.14 16:58:00 - [5] - Quote Yea they do usually seem to go forever with no one deciding anything just really at each other. I mean we can go and drag this one out longer if need be?
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 237	Posted - 2012.10.14 17:43:00 - [6] - Quote What is fun: The mach is the fastest battleship, the nightmare is one of the slowest.... fast > slow for fun Sorting out ammo supplies is not very fun, NM> mach Managing cap... may not be very fun (or maybe you like flying on the edge, pulsing mods and such) Selecting specific damage types may provide a bit of fun, but so may rapidly wapping out crystals as range and tracking dictate. While the mach can snipe with arty, its targetting range is not as nice, if sniping is fun for you, NM > mach In some lvl 4s, the mare never needs to move, as it can target and snipe everything on the grid If PvP in such an expensive boat is what excites you, the mach will be a lot more fun, as it will perform a lot better in PvP The NM can't be armor tanked very well, but the mach can do both types of tank If you like using drones, the mach can carry more. So in summary: Speed vs sniping Unlimited ammo and cap management vs limited ammo and damage slecting Capable of both tank types - Mach Pvp capability - Mach Drones - Mach Unless you really like lasers and long range targetting, its the mach
zatazon Z's Corp 22	Posted - 2012.10.14 17:52:00 - [7] - Quote not only is this Mach vs Nightmare getting stretched out, very valuable info is coming to light. Thank you very much for the break down Verity, I will have to get them both i think. I very much enjoy flying my assault frig in L3/L4s because it requires attention and if i screw up im prob gonna pop. At the same time sitting back in a CNR launching cruise missiles at targets 150km out is pretty cool or using rails on a rokh.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc 22	Posted - 2012.10.14 18:49:00 - [8] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts. That's really dumb advice did you actually ever flew one n missions? (it looks like the op is interested in pve) With a vindi you'll spend the entire day chasing after each target as you do need to get point blank range to do any decent damage, whereas with a Nightmare or (my favourite) Navy Apoc you can just sit still and kill everything.
Worpout Angelic Eclipse. 30	Posted - 2012.10.14 19:12:00 - [9] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts. Let's face it, all the gun-focused pirate BS are fun to fly. And each if them is superior in it's own niche. Sansha Pirate Invasion? Long range EM-weak rats mean that Nothing will touch the Nightmare. Angel Extravaganza? Mach > all for getting up clase and personal with Angels. Warping in the Vindicator to Guristas Assault or Serpentis Extravaganza will bring you win. And so on. If you want a "one size fits all" Pirate BS, then the Mach is obviously it. But hey, if you're cheaping out here, just get a damb CNR, right? [Vindicator, Windicator] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Internal Force Field Array I Core B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Domination Stasis Webifier Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x4 I'd do a better MWD and perhaps a cap boosters, else the same fit 8)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4906	Posted - 2012.10.14 19:23:00 - [10] - Quote Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote: Malcanis wrote: Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts. That's really dumb advice did you actually ever flew one n missions? (it looks like the op is interested in pve) With a vindi you'll spend the entire day chasing after each target as you do need to get point blank range to do any decent damage, whereas with a Nightmare or (my favourite) Navy Apoc you can just sit still and kill everything. 18+34 falloff with Null. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Romvex Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 78	Posted - 2012.10.14 19:51:00 - [11] - Quote nightmare is prettier and doesent look like a masochist dildo...FLY IT Gÿ+/ /Gûî /n++ \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Exploited Engineer Creatively Applied Violence Inc. 91	Posted - 2012.10.14 20:35:00 - [12] - Quote Romvex wrote: nightmare is prettier and doesent look like a masochist dildo...FLY IT Are we talking about the same Nightmare that looks like a cactus after a bad traffic accident? Hm. Masochist dildo? That sounds like one way to view the Nightmare, with all those spikes.
Exploited Engineer Creatively Applied Violence Inc. 91	Posted - 2012.10.14 20:37:00 - [13] - Quote Malcanis wrote: 18+34 falloff with Null. And that is painfully short-ranged for a mission battleship. Oh, and don't forget its low targeting range. In some Serpentis missions, you might find yourself reduced to lock ranges well below 10km by all the sensor damping. It might be win against Guristas, though.
Exploited Engineer Creatively Applied Violence Inc. 91	Posted - 2012.10.14 20:42:00 - [14] - Quote Verity Sovereign wrote: Unless you really like lasers and long range targetting, its the mach Another point for the Machariel: If Marauders are your thing, the skills required for the Machariel overlap well with those required for flying the only Marauder currently worth the trouble, the Vargur.
Romvex Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 78	Posted - 2012.10.14 21:12:00 - [15] - Quote Exploited Engineer wrote: Verity Sovereign wrote: Unless you really like lasers and long range targetting, its the mach Another point for the Machariel: If Marauders are your thing, the skills required for the Machariel overlap well with those required for flying the only Marauder currently worth the trouble, the Vargur. the paladin would like to speak with you Gÿ+/ /Gûî /n++ \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Flurk Hellbron Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 111	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:00:00 - [16] - Quote Go for the Machmare or the Nightariel
Arch Stanton's Neighbour Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc 22	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:16:00 - [17] - Quote Malcanis wrote: 18+34 falloff with Null. that's a joke 56 optimal with scorch and amarr bs IV in an apoc over a hundred in a nightmare as the tracking bonus lets you fit tachyons
Romvex Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 78	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:29:00 - [18] - Quote Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote: Malcanis wrote: 18+34 falloff with Null. that's a joke 56 optimal with scorch and amarr bs IV in an apoc over a hundred in a nightmare as the tracking bonus lets you fit tachyons he was speaking from the perspective of "fun" not efficiency. personally i dont find missioning, or really any pve other than sleepers and incies even remotely fun thugh, so what do i know Gÿ+/ /Gûî /n++ \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Arcosian EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis 23	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:48:00 - [19] - Quote Assuming your using it for PVE either ship will work great. As for my choice I have mainly flown the NM/Paladin with tengu for angel/guristas missions. If you mission in amarr space NM/Paladin will be king with their huge DPS and really long range. And they will plow through missions with ease since you can alpha pretty much anything BC and below. I haven't flown a mach and really don't have a reason to. Sure it's the "best" all around BS but it uses ammo like no other and I don't feel like carting around/buying 100k rounds every couple of days. But with lasers using faction crystals each one last about 4000 shots and since you only need 4 at a time you can buy 40 or so and literally run missions for months without having to buy new ones. As for the mach being faster at missions it may be on the ones with long travel times between gates but there are only 2-3 missions like that so most of the time the NM can sit still and kill everything before it even gets 50km from you. Plus you won't be shooting in falloff all the time like the mach. One other thing, I can't remember where I saw the dev post/comment but I remember them saying they were going to "reconsider" the mach's really long falloff range so winmatar may be getting hit with the nerf bat when BS get re-balanced next winter.

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