EVE Search - TD's the new ecm multi of today?

All Channels

Ships and Modules

TD's the new ecm multi of today?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 566	Posted - 2012.10.17 08:27:00 - [1] - Quote Remember when any ship with a space mid has an ecm multi? ECM got changed so they would be very weak on ships with no ecm bonus and make the ecm ships used more. We have exactly the same situation now only with TDs, on, everything and with the missile adjustments coming soon is going to get worse. I see TDs all the time yet hardly any TD bonused ships. is it time to admit TDs are too good on non bonused ships? http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28498711.jpg http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 198	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:07:00 - [2] - Quote Unlike ECM nos/neut will still work and tackle will still work so no, it's not at all the same. Amat victoria curam.
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 369	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:22:00 - [3] - Quote TDs are nice, useful, and can make an enjoyable mid slot filler. That said, they are certainly not as powerful as jamming. As pointed out, they do not limit many things so they really aren't overpowered. Besides, people will always find a slot filler. If you nerf tds, it will be remote damps, target painters, sensor boosters, something. Nerfing any will just bring the next flavor of the month. Better to let it be as things work well instead of risk merging an item out of use.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 566	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:29:00 - [4] - Quote I understand they are not as powerful, its the fact that bonused ships arnt used because they are good on their own. I drew the parallel between this and the old ecm multi thing, because what ccp said at the time about the nerf, was that its the very definition of a module thats too good when its used all the time and the bonuses ships are not. My hope is that we do not have TD's on absolutely every ship with a spare mid come winter patch. because its going to suck. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Meditril T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 139	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:45:00 - [5] - Quote I think we will have to wait how it will work out. TD take a lot of cap when running, which makes you more vulnerable to neutralizers, so maybe after everyone is fitting TD a month later everyone will fit neutralizers which will make them obsolete... we will see. Naturally TD have a longer operation range then neutralizers, this will then generate even more pressure to get an MWD on your ship to come close. So maybe people will go for ECM or Sensor dampers instead?
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 369	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:52:00 - [6] - Quote They never nerfed autocannons when every punisher, moa, and maller used them instead of the weapons they were bonuses for. Look, do not take a ccp statement like that as a set in stone truism. Yes, at the time multi-ecm mods were the go to filler. Now you see TDs more, but other mods are still used. Besides, stop stressing about winter. The devs have already said that tds will not impact missiles in the first patch. And even.when they do, people will fit tracking computers. The advantage there (unlike with eccm mods) is that tracking computers provife benefit outside of just being disrupted. So really, i think you are taking one statement made by ccp years ago, applying it out of context and trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Why nit wait, see what happens, then worry if you see tds on every kill.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 566	Posted - 2012.10.17 12:55:00 - [7] - Quote i already see TD's fit on just about anything that has a 4th mid after mwd, scram and web. i rarely see TD ships doing the TD-ing. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Metal Icarus Endless Destruction Against ALL Anomalies 303	Posted - 2012.10.17 13:28:00 - [8] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: i already see TD's fit on just about anything that has a 4th mid after mwd, scram and web. i rarely see TD ships doing the TD-ing. When givin the choice between TDing and tank on a curse, tank wins most of the time. Who needs a TD when your opponent cant even fire his weapons, or move w/ prop?
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 566	Posted - 2012.10.17 13:38:00 - [9] - Quote Metal Icarus wrote: Muad 'dib wrote: i already see TD's fit on just about anything that has a 4th mid after mwd, scram and web. i rarely see TD ships doing the TD-ing. When givin the choice between TDing and tank on a curse, tank wins most of the time. Who needs a TD when your opponent cant even fire his weapons, or move w/ prop? i totally agree, tds are good on small ships as standard no need for any TD bonus ships, well in my eyes thats not what EW should be, you dont fit a soldier with helicopter EW because it would suck, but in eve TDs everywhere! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 370	Posted - 2012.10.17 13:43:00 - [10] - Quote And apart from the kitsune, when do you ever see an electronic attack frigate? Perhaps when the rebalance hits the t2 frigs, but otherwise they just are not used. Also, since the curse and pilgram are neut and td ships, the neut is usually favored.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 835	Posted - 2012.10.17 14:38:00 - [11] - Quote Meditril wrote: So maybe people will go for ECM... Why shouldn't you?? -completely neutralise someone on the field vs lolish effects, why would you choose lolish effects? Quote: ... or Sensor dampers instead? cough Are you serious? brb
Zyella Stormborn Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis 149	Posted - 2012.10.17 16:24:00 - [12] - Quote I've always been a rather big believer in ALL EW type modules (ECM / Damper / TD / hell, even neuts and nos) being not very effective except for on bonused boats. Otherwise it opens up too many avenues for 'must have' items to follow up prop mods and points with. It bugs me that currently every single ship with the slot to spare runs with neuts as a must have, for example. But I think I am probably in the minority with this opinion. ~Z
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 21	Posted - 2012.10.17 18:04:00 - [13] - Quote Zyella Stormborn wrote: I've always been a rather big believer in ALL EW type modules (ECM / Damper / TD / hell, even neuts and nos) being not very effective except for on bonused boats. Otherwise it opens up too many avenues for 'must have' items to follow up prop mods and points with. It bugs me that currently every single ship with the slot to spare runs with neuts as a must have, for example. But I think I am probably in the minority with this opinion. ~Z Maybe. But you're not alone .
Tornii SkREW CREW Local Down 2	Posted - 2012.10.18 08:56:00 - [14] - Quote CCP said TDs would impact missiles after the Winter expansion? Oo Must have missed that. Was it in a dev blog or on forums, so that I can do a search? "If the essence of life is information carried in DNA, then society and civilization are just colossal memory systems."
Bouh Revetoile Barricade. 101	Posted - 2012.10.18 10:03:00 - [15] - Quote Zyella Stormborn wrote: I've always been a rather big believer in ALL EW type modules (ECM / Damper / TD / hell, even neuts and nos) being not very effective except for on bonused boats. Otherwise it opens up too many avenues for 'must have' items to follow up prop mods and points with. It bugs me that currently every single ship with the slot to spare runs with neuts as a must have, for example. But I think I am probably in the minority with this opinion. ~Z Though you should have something useful to fill these empty slots. Armor tanked ships with spare mids only have this advantage over shield tank, and in fact, they lose it while they lose their mobility. And with high slot, it's almost the same : if not a neut, what will you use ? Autotargeting module ? Salvager ? You would be left with smartbombs. A neut is already only useful on smaller target, it act as a frigate defense. You can't really nerf neut to prevent this without making them completely useless and same size targets. I think these modules need to be useful, to give something to these ships with spare mid/high slots, though they shouldn't be so powerful that a shield tanking ship through away it's tank to use them. And I think TD are mostly fine in this regards.
Zyella Stormborn Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis 151	Posted - 2012.10.18 16:17:00 - [16] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: Zyella Stormborn wrote: I've always been a rather big believer in ALL EW type modules (ECM / Damper / TD / hell, even neuts and nos) being not very effective except for on bonused boats. Otherwise it opens up too many avenues for 'must have' items to follow up prop mods and points with. It bugs me that currently every single ship with the slot to spare runs with neuts as a must have, for example. But I think I am probably in the minority with this opinion. ~Z snip A neut is already only useful on smaller target, it act as a frigate defense. You can't really nerf neut to prevent this without making them completely useless and same size targets. I think these modules need to be useful, to give something to these ships with spare mid/high slots, though they shouldn't be so powerful that a shield tanking ship through away it's tank to use them. And I think TD are mostly fine in this regards. Neut is only useful on smaller targets? The entire Amarr navy would like words with you. Neuts are good against all heavy cap using ships, and all active tanks specifically, forcing the need for cap batteries on many where they normally would not be required. In particular with ASB's and Capless weapons going around now, it makes it too hard a counter to all cap using ships if you have this combo. There is no such thing as 'spare' mid slots. There is always need for more tank, prop, TCs, eccms, drone mods, sensor boosters, cap relays, maybe cap batteries, etc. High slots. They call it 'utility' high slots for that reason. Tractor beams, salvager, drone mod, etc. If they made neuts less useful and kept nos where it is, I would be fine with that also. But currently neuts are simply too useful and therefore too needed on all non-bonused ships. I am not saying to make them completely useless. But I do feel they are currently TOO effective. Especially on ships that don't have overly tight fittings to start. TD's I personally love and are a favorite, but I feel they should be brought down (someone gave a suggestion of not allowing scripting unless on a bonused ship, which I thought was an interesting idea, but not sure if it is the right fix) on non-bonused ships as well, especially if they decide to push through the proposed changes. EW ships are not the most common thing in the field (ok, Curses granted are very popular), but they are feared when they show up. Every combat boat being a mini EW ship should not be, and they should do whatever they can to give more options, and not leave it so people feel forced to all have several must-have items. Again, I am aware that I am probably in the minority here, but the forums are here for specifically this reason, the exchange of views. ;) ~Z
Malken The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost 49	Posted - 2012.10.18 18:35:00 - [17] - Quote how is the penalty vs the bonus of a tracking computer or a tracking enhancer? Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
Bouh Revetoile Barricade. 104	Posted - 2012.10.19 10:09:00 - [18] - Quote Neut are indeed very powerful, but it's in relation to their fiting cost IMO. Most ship just cannot fit a neut, and those who can often have to make sacrifice in order to do it, except for some minmatar hulls. It's the minmatar hull who need to be fixed, not the module itself IMO. Most of the time, you are neuting yourself if you are not using a capless ship. Problem IMO is capless weapons and ship, not neuts. Other EWAR, there is two cases : TD and damp on one side, and ECM on the other. TD and Damp need speed superiority and can be countered by piloting. Because of the required speed, you can't really use them on armour ships, and because of mid slots, you can barely use them on shield ships. Most fit I see using TD are almost or completely tankless. There is also the fleet case, but I don't see any problem with EWAR in fleet. And ECM now, when was the last time you saw an ECM module on a non bonused hull ? And there is counters to all of them. And a funny thing too : most mid slots you mentioned except tank are counter EWAR modules.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 568	Posted - 2012.10.19 10:55:00 - [19] - Quote i see TD and ECM on small ships like thrashers ALL the time. besides, mid slots for gangs ALWAYS have EW over EW protection. thats a fact. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Zarnak Wulf Imperial Outlaws 658	Posted - 2012.10.19 13:31:00 - [20] - Quote I have very mixed feelings about TD. On one hand I'm with you seeing TD on ALL the ships. It's obnoxious. On the other hand - there are consistent counters. Get a destroyer. Slap a sensor booster on it. Fit rails or artillery. You can kill fragile, kitey e-war frigates before they can lock you to apply their e-war. After December 4th, new missile destroyers will sweep alot of the condors and slashers with TD's you see zooming about off of the field. The beam coercer also becomes a reality. The real victim of TD-Online is brawler frigates. A pulse coercer or punisher that has it's optimal halved by a TD becomes worthless. Part of me wishes they'd change the overall tracking formula. Right now transversal is emphasized over signature size. Flipping that would create some interesting scenarios.
Bouh Revetoile Barricade. 110	Posted - 2012.10.19 18:27:00 - [21] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: i see TD and ECM on small ships like thrashers ALL the time. besides, mid slots for gangs ALWAYS have EW over EW protection. thats a fact. ECM ? On thrashers ? I doubt it's of any effectiveness... And as I said, EWAR fit tend to be honor tanked. They are so fragile I don't think it's that unbalanced. Yes, it's powerful, but I think the most anoying part is "counter" effect it have. But EWAR does have counter too. I think people just don't like their cookie cutter fit not able to fight EWAR.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 8	Posted - 2012.10.22 08:06:00 - [22] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: After December 4th, new missile destroyers will sweep alot of the condors and slashers with TD's you see zooming about off of the field. The beam coercer also becomes a reality. That'll only last until TD affect missiles too
Demolishar United Aggression 371	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:05:00 - [23] - Quote TD + Proteus links = amazing
Dan Carter Murray 154	Posted - 2012.10.23 20:19:00 - [24] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: I have very mixed feelings about TD. On one hand I'm with you seeing TD on ALL the ships. It's obnoxious. On the other hand - there are consistent counters. Get a destroyer. Slap a sensor booster on it. Fit rails or artillery. You can kill fragile, kitey e-war frigates before they can lock you to apply their e-war. After December 4th, new missile destroyers will sweep alot of the condors and slashers with TD's you see zooming about off of the field. The beam coercer also becomes a reality. The real victim of TD-Online is brawler frigates. A pulse coercer or punisher that has it's optimal halved by a TD becomes worthless. Part of me wishes they'd change the overall tracking formula. Right now transversal is emphasized over signature size. Flipping that would create some interesting scenarios. i don't like you anymore Zarnak. you always come up with the best ideas. GIVE ME PART OF YOUR BRAIN!!!
Ashina Sito Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2012.10.23 20:42:00 - [25] - Quote Tracking Disruptor's have always been awesome on any ship. I have been fitting them on ships with a "spare" mid slot for years. The key element is that most PvP ships are Minmatar, flown as shield tanked nano fits. As such they want to keep speed up and speed tracking scripts nail them hard. If they slow down, they don't get to keep range and get tackled. Ether way you can neutralize them. Blasters? Pre-nurfed (close range armor tank turtles FTW) so rarely flown. Amarr, Range scrips. Just reverse Minnie. Amarr want range and get to have a lot of it with pulse and Scorch. Missiles.... don't do jack. When CCP makes it so that TD's work against missiles TD's will become the best balanced Ewar. It only works if the user uses the right script and only if the target chooses to not take the proper response to eliminate the effect. Then again gun users (AKA Minnie pilots) haven't seem to learn yet, as far as I can tell. Unbonused TD's do not have a great impact but, most pilots are clueless about TD's and so they still can be quiet effective. If TD's get buffed one would assume pilots would eventually learn how to counter TD's and unbonused TD's would become less effective.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 576	Posted - 2012.10.23 20:44:00 - [26] - Quote tracking enhancers and computers are NOT a good counter to TD and when im TD by a ship or ten, they all are not TD bonused ships. i wouldnt have whined about it otherwise. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Taoist Dragon Forced Penetration 55	Posted - 2012.10.23 21:06:00 - [27] - Quote If you get ewar'd by ten ships it doesn't matter what ewar it is the effect is huge! (with a possible expection to TP's) That is the Way, the Tao. Balance is everything. I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer!
Ginger Barbarella State War Academy Caldari State 205	Posted - 2012.10.25 18:49:00 - [28] - Quote Nerf everything but 150mm rails and Medium Shield Extenders ASAP!!! Kill everything that appears to actually be useful! Balance is for gymnastics. Adapt or die.
KatanTharkay Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 0	Posted - 2012.10.27 00:58:00 - [29] - Quote Td's are really evil for the small guns. Almost everybody I know who's PVP-ing in small ships fit one. Slap an optimal disruption script and kite them 'till the kingdom come 'cause they will have more than 45% of guns range reduced. Hell, I'm soloing destroyers with frigs every time when I have a TD fitted.
Reuqh Dew Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2012.10.27 09:52:00 - [30] - Quote Although TDs can be countered with piloting if you can dictate range, there's no denying they're FOTM at the moment and the efffect is just too powerful on unbonused ships. I'd like to see devs tuning down the effect on TDs, and increase the bonus on amarr EWAR ships.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.