Ohh Lord Zim, nine years in EVE and I have truly never seen someone try so hard at making a point and failing so completely. You just want to argue with everyone but just dont have the facts or concise writing to do it convincingly. Breaking down quotes sentence by sentence does not make you effective at arguing, all it seems to do is confuse you as to the spirit of the argument.

Take a deep breath, read what you write. Come back to a it a minute later and possibly have someone else proof it.

If people are having a hard time understanding you, you just aren't as good at communicating as you think you are. Maybe you should use the edit function that you gave me **** about.

With that said, you STILL havent proven how removal of local will kill Null. And stating what is already wrong with it is really just a distraction.

REMOVE LOCAL!

Then come into the whs and find me. Prove it... prove it is easier than nullsec. here let me even help you out and show you how to use combat probes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O561wrlNSk

Yes, yes... Our PVE is doing sites while constantly being hunted down by cloaky t3s. You wouldn't last a day without local.

Ratters are based under the assumption that there are mining belts. There are NO MINING BELTS in Whs. No ratters. Aside from anoms, you have to scan down everything else. As far as warping to anoms to gank people, if you are not omni-tanked for sleepers in a pvp fit. You will lose your precious ship... Booohohoho!!!!

Sheesh! you can talk big especially when you dont know how it all works.

~Elite PvE~ then huh.

What? A c1? try living in a c5 or c6. then talk about easy.
And the same goes for when you go into other WHs, you wanna make isk then you venture out and take that risk. Local is useless across the board. I don't even use it in lowsec anymore.

Better yet, try FW with Alliiances in a WH. The whole no talking in local rule goes out the window.

No it hasn't! learn to read!

Wow... the fact that you even made that statement... lawls... oh and I never said it was hard. I'm just messing with nullbears and goonswarm forum trolls. Don't pick sides until you read all the post.

Maturity is only a thing of real life. Not on cyberspace.

So all mockery and sarcasm is taken as immaturity and everything said on forums is taken seriously... duly noted and thrown away.


Edit: And I'm not your mate, guy.

Hence why I'm trying to get it locked. I got tired of arguing about 2 or 3 pages back. I personally don't care how it makes me look on the intrawebz. people act like mad respect here actually means something.

I don't know, some of it was so bad I could only justify it by considering it trolling.
Then again, no troll is THAT persistent.

Well i do know what I am talking about. I am a fast learner as well. I ask questions and I gather intel from others that have provide good information on the forums and other websites. When I come across a good thread I post constructive post. nullbears are in denial about local is all. If I am completely wrong about nullsec as everyone says I am then please enlighten me. explain to me where I am wrong in a non-insulting constructive manner.

You do realize, then, that the asteroid belts and anomalies being the majority of the PVE in null combined with static access routes makes the dynamic totally different than the situation in WH's, right?

And that we use local to find fights as well as to avoid them?

Local is a conflict-driver in null more often than not. It's valuable for fleet intel.

Guides don't necessarily teach you that. Experience does.

But local revels your plans to the enemy. I thought local should never be used for intel?

That's not a guide. That's reference resources... spreadsheets. Guides break everything down and explains why you do certain things and how to do them. I'm seriously not trying to be rude here so forgive me if it comes off as such.

You should plot bookmarks in-line along your asteroid belts at a warpable range. That allows you to mine aligned.

This means you don't have to do anything until a neutral or hostile lands on-grid with you, because it'll still be a few seconds before their warp cancels.

You get to mine safely, even without a tank.

Clever bookmarks and targeting mean you never miss a cycle, except for when you have to boogie.

People are interfering with my ~playstyle~ (which does not include exploding).

Use a rifter or equivalent.

Preferably something fast (MWD > AB) to cover the distances quickly.

No point in limiting yourself to shuttle velocity.

Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise
Conflict is created from local, no local forces everyone to hisec., therefore all conflict is in highsec.

Illicit major
All wormholers are ignorant of nullsec.
No elitist nullsecers are wormholers.
therefore, no elitist nullsecer is ignorant of nullsec.

And to top it all off for your arguement on how if local is removed and why you do not want to give it up.
Argument from ignorance

Wow... it's like I've been talking to forum bots or alts of the same player this entire time. Every single one of you use the exact same argument style. I swear it's like a formula.
"refute OP"
"get refuted by common sense and logic"
"talk down condescendingly and claim they know nothing"
"get refuted with common sense and proof"
"pick one flaw or insult refuter"
"overwhelmed with more proof and logic"
"overwhelm refuter with a gang of post from ally members or alts so the refuter can't respond in a decent time those making him/her appear slow"
"get every post refuted by common sense, logic, and more proof"
"talk condescending some more and troll until refuter and original OP abandons thread"
"refuter trolls back"
"mock refuters intelligents and insult"
"refuter calms down and lures actual information on the topic and their side of the argument"
"refuter has all questions answered and any suggestions that are opposed are poorly refuted"
"refuter still disagrees"
"talk condescendingly and claim they know nothing"
"get refuted with common sense and logic"
"pick one flaw or insult refuter"
"troll refuter instead of forming constructive post"

And saying the opposite doesn't make that any more true...
I say we are at a stand still then.
I am tired and I can't keep this going all night and you know this. That's why y'all played a tag team there because of all the different players in different timezones... Or, you all have no lives. Either way, I am going to bed. If you want to debate some more, go back and read my earlier post with Darth.
They refute Darth's arguments and also provides alternatives to replace local.

Imaginary holes he made up that weren't based on the actual argument.

Anything can be taken out of context when only half of it is quoted. It's actually sarcasm. Tongue in cheek. A play on words. The first two parts have been spoken by Darth and ohhh whats his face? Some one from earlier today. The conflict is actually referring to the nerd rage and temper tantrums that will ensue. There would also be more conflict on the market as well.
I am sure this will be butchered, misquoted, and taken completely out of contexts as well. That is what ignorant people do when they feel they could possibly be wrong. Like small children. Either way, I'm out guys. Good luck arguing amongst yourselves, playing children's card games or whatever you goons do during your free time.

You are fun, you should stay. I haven't talked at anyone this dumb since the fight with -A- in delve. Note use of the word at because i'm pretty sure you aren't grokking anything I'm saying beyond the fact that I'm being a meaniehead :(

EDIT: are you a furry? Because the last time I saw someone misuse that many argumentative fallacies it was a furry doing it, and they seem to do it a lot. Well that and yiffing.

Remiel you post like a goon yet are a pubbie. My mind cannot contain the shock.

The thing is there are a lot of decent arguments for not necessarily doing away with local, but tweaking it a bit that work really well, yet no one seems to go for those. They instead go for the magic underpants theory of:

1. Remove local
2. ?????
3. EVERYONE GOES TO NULLSEC

They never actually say why that would drive people to nullsec.

You still aren't stating why that would drive people to nullsec, which is the crux of the entire argument. My "Local" solution that would make me happy, because yes I wander other peoples space and try to kill their ratters too would be for local to pop when I load grid. I can list the number of times I've landed on field right as the ratter was aligning his stupid dominix out and warping off on a millipedes toes, an extra few seconds would do a lot to make it so yes there is SOME risk if the ratter isn't paying attention, but it doesn't throw the ball entirely in either of our courts. If local was removed and I'm in a bomber the ball would be entirely in my court, and virtually always on my court unless every single gate was camped by a scanning ship reporting intel (which frankly is too much to ask of players).