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Crimson Dragon
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:35:00 -
[1]
Hello,
I understand that in an effort to keep M-o from dropping cans all over the place and getting lag kills this new system of a jettison timer has been instituted. Actually, I think it's awesome that CCP is working on trying to control the situation more.:) However, I must ask if something else can be done.... I'm a miner, and I need to have the ability to open at least two cans without hassel! I could mine for hours and have 50k Omber in on can, but I would need to refresh it at least once during tat time... problem is to refresh the can takes 4-5 minuts (to make a new one)! Well in 4-5 minutes I can mine a whole load and have transported it back by then!
Personally I really don't like this particular system because it keeps me and my corporation from mining with the speed and determination we used to. I request that another way be figured out... even if it's as mundane as letting this system be automaticaly activated only within 150km of a jumpgate? That way you couldn't drop too many cans within warping distance of the Jumpgate..? Anyhow, that's just my two cents worth.
Crimson Dragon
Sakura LTD.
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Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:39:00 -
[2]
Yep the current solution is useless.
Why not just limit the maount of drops you can do to 10. Until you explode one of them it wont allow you to jettison again ?
AS they should explode after an hour anyway this should work.
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Scipio
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:53:00 -
[3]
I agree.
Here's a fix...
Make the market containers able to hold say 10000-20000 and have a cost to then of 100k-300k each that will last 2 hours or so. The high cargo space of these containers could be utilized for miners, the high cost is to prevent people from buying and crapping them out. Perhaps only 2 of these cargo's per ship?
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Aldamar
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Posted - 2003.07.04 15:41:00 -
[4]
lol, I would not pay 100-300k for a container that is going to blow up in 2 hours.
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GodEater
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Posted - 2003.07.04 16:14:00 -
[5]
A maximum of TWO drops is all that is required. No-one could possibly need 10.
In a mining mission with 5 miners and two haulers - you only need 2 per person in order to be able to refresh them before they explode.
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.07.04 16:58:00 -
[6]
All this because a bunch of babies crying and using things like "Container Lag" as an excuse why they got blowded up at a stargate. It's reduculous.
I'm sorry but, if m0o hangs out at a stargate long enough.. there's just going to be containers all over the place. It's just that simple.
So now not only will there be lots of containers around m0o gates, now we all have to wait 5 minutes to jetison. And hello.. If your a m0o camping a gate. You have nothing but time. So they can still so called jetison the containers if they want to.
I blame CCP and the people whom complained about so called "container lag".
Edited by: Mr nStuff on 04/07/2003 17:01:00
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Bazerka
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Posted - 2003.07.04 18:08:00 -
[7]
It's nice to see CCP addressing issues that are being identified.
However, I sincerely hope this jettison timer is not being used as a quick fix to brush the core issue (lag during "worldspace "syncronisation after warp) under the carpet.
It's all good and well putting a kludge (which is what I think this fix is) in as a stop gap, but the underlying issue is going to cause further problems as the number of players increases.
What's going to happen when large scale battles start occuring? Surely warping into a "worldspace" that has (for arguments sake) an ongoing battle with 100+ ships will cause just as much lag for a player, as warping into a "worldspace" with 200 cans floating in it?
This having to wait XYZ minutes whilst mining, before being able to jettison another pod is going to become most irritating and will affect far more "innocent" people than those I guess this fix is aimed at (can spammers).
I think if CCP aren't going to address the synchronisation lag issue (and remove this timer kludge) then at least they should consider alternative fixes for can spam.
Rather than having it time per can based, it would make more sense to limit the number of active cans a player can jettison into their "worldspace". This can be a very small number to prevent spam, yet allow miners etc to get on with their jobs without yet another lame irritation. Or is it CCPs intention to create yet another reason for people to get sick and tired of mining?
Edited by: Bazerka on 04/07/2003 18:24:57
Edited by: Bazerka on 04/07/2003 18:28:27
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Shara El
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Posted - 2003.07.04 18:37:00 -
[8]
This *fix* is totally ***. It is seriously interfering with our mining operation, plus having to continually hit jettison in order to be able to make the window is ridiculous.
CCP, WTF ARE YOU DOING?
I can understand wanting to do something about M0O griefing the noobs by can-lag tactics. BUT DID YOU HAVE TO GRIEF EVERYONE ELSE IN ORDER TO DO IT? PUH-LEASE!
A limit on #cans/player would be a far better solution than this.
Try use some common sense in future OK?
"Every man dies, but no man truely lives."
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Aldamar
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Posted - 2003.07.04 20:49:00 -
[9]
I could care less about mOo and their cargo container exploit or what ever else you want to call it. I have been playing since a few days after release and have never even seen mOo and I have traveled all over Lontreck and Hemitar regions from 1.0 to 0.0 areas. I have never been stopped at a gate by any pirate nor have I ever lost a ship or been pod killed. It is NOT hard to avoid them. All I ever do when traveling is set my waypoints and make sure to check map for ship/pod kills in last 24 hours. Any hot spots I steer clear of.
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Feared
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Posted - 2003.07.04 21:08:00 -
[10]
Basically for 2 days running the corp has had to give up group mining and to a large extend solo mining.
Why.. we cannot get the containers to jettison. We get the message 5mins etc then when it gets down to 2 secs etc try again and it says 5mins till jettison... A group of us where trying this for around an hour then gave up to watch TV etc.
It is impossible for us to play under these circumstances... Grrrrrrr
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Colibri
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Posted - 2003.07.04 22:16:00 -
[11]
like some of you, I thought this was going to make mining unwieldy, however, after playing around with it, it still works. You just need to have haulers and miners that can think and communicate with each other.
I had 3 cans going yesterday. The first had 1 ore unit to see how long it would last, the other two were for doing the actually ore handling.
So this change makes things a bit more awkward but it's still definitely workable.
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.07.05 00:28:00 -
[12]
While it is awkward to deal with at first, it by no means should cause a total breakdown in mining operations. Just think ahead a bit and prepare to jettison a container prior to the need of the container.
I will say I have noticed the timer may be based upon something else besides an individual timer for each person. I know I have watched it go down and down in the time for preparation then jump back up. It might be using a system where a container can only be generated in the system at a rate of ones (1) per five minutes.
Also, I seem to have better luck in generating a can if I only eject one (1) unit of something versus a stacked pile. This may just be a coincidence, but it seems to be easier to do.
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Praetorion
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Posted - 2003.07.05 03:12:00 -
[13]
The cure is worse than the disease. This "fix" has completely killed group mining for the most part for my corp of 150 and very few of our miners will put up with the hassel for solo mining.
I have no problem with there being a timer attached to releasing the next container, but the first container needs to be released immediately. Make it 5, 10, 15 minutes for all I care (though I think 5 is sufficient) before you can release another. Anything else, and especially have it "compare" the timers of those around you, horribly cripples group mining and even makes solo mining (something I actually used to enjoy doing as a nice break from the headache of running a large corp, heh) teeth grindingly frustrating.
I mocked SWG as carebears in space, but this is sure as hell making me take a 2nd look while I wait for this to get fixed.
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MoiraineDamodred
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Posted - 2003.07.05 08:18:00 -
[14]
My corporation hasn't found the containers to be an issue at all. What we usually do is just have our hauler leave one unit of whatever in the container so it doesn't blow up. And if you position yourself so you don't have to move when switching asteroids in the belt, then you'll need to make new containers fairly rarely.
This may not hold for the really good ores which might get mined very quickly, but generally we've found the feature to be something less than a trivial annoyance.
__________________
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RedDevil
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Posted - 2003.07.05 09:07:00 -
[15]
current system is appaling - why not limit the containers less?
as group mining is really really annoying now.
ccp, youre great. lol
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.05 09:24:00 -
[16]
I haven't done any mining since the new patch but I did try to jettison some rubbish from my Indy last night.
How long does it take to actually drop the first container?
I waited well over 5 minutes and nothing happened.
I think this might be my first real whine about the new patch *gasps of horror*
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Kimi
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Posted - 2003.07.05 09:52:00 -
[17]
I have to agree that this is a lame approach to a problem. Seems to me that you could solve most of it by just limiting the number of containers dropped at one time, or by having a variable timer that does not kick in until the 3rd container (the first two would have no timer).
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Sariel Moardurr
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:19:00 -
[18]
Try this my friend.
Once you have filled your cargo and the timer ends ( after you have not been putting any ore into your cargo hold) this should let you jettison another)
I assume you power mine also with a Cruiser then run back and grab your indy to haul a **** load back.
Works for me all the time. I think the timer resets if you continue to collect ore in your hold...not sure but that is only logical explanation I can come up with.
"Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing......ya keep talk'n" Hank Hill |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:23:00 -
[19]
OVERSIZED SIGGY ALERT!
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Salient
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:31:00 -
[20]
clearly a hare-brained attemt to resolve an issue that GMs said was not an exploit to begin with...
fix the CODE please
when ppl complain about container lag they want you to FIX THE CODE not concoct heinous annoyances
Edited by: Salient on 05/07/2003 11:31:59
ut tensio sic vis |
Croesus
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:32:00 -
[21]
I didnt read all the posts so Im sorry if this has been mentioned. But when you mine you jettison the first container and then you open it. Then you just drag the ore you mine after that to it.
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Miranda
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:49:00 -
[22]
Thats not the main problem. The main problem is that first can, U can waste upto 10 mins of mining trying to get that first can out into space. And for me thats a lot of wasted time.
5 cu-miners at 58m3 a cycle
7 Harvestor Drones 30m3 a cycle
Thats 500 m3 of ore every cycle/min, but my ship dosnt hold that much ore.
The pod timer is a Complete waste of time
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Croesus
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:53:00 -
[23]
I have never had any problem launching the first container.
When I mine I launch my fist container immediately and then I drag the rest of what I mine into it. I cant see any problems.
I mine with 5 cu and 4 harvesters.
edit for spelling
Edited by: Croesus on 05/07/2003 11:56:18
Edited by: Croesus on 05/07/2003 11:56:59
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Trebonius
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:05:00 -
[24]
The current system is embarassing. CCP: Take some pride in your work and replace this ridiculous timer with something that doesn't alienate 99% of the playerbase.
--
ORE REMOVAL TECHNICIAN
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Riskin Mons
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:33:00 -
[25]
My friend and I are having the same problem with some extras as well :( When we get to drop the first container the miners open it and drop our ore in there for the Indy pilot to collect. But as soon as the Indy pilot has taken anything from the container it stops updating for him and he cant see or take anything more we drop in it. Closing the cargo window, refreshing etx does nothing, the only way for him to see the new contents is to log off and back on again, not exactly practical. |
MoiraineDamodred
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:05:00 -
[26]
Never mind what I had posted early, the Jettison timer is annoying as hell.
__________________
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Blood Hawk
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:28:00 -
[27]
I've had similar problems. Ore not updating, people not being able to add to or take from a container... we lost around 25k pyro (not a GREAT deal, but if u lose several of these.....)
I've only had ONE successful jettison since the patch, even after trying on countless occasions! I once waited around 30-45mins for a drop... and nothing! This is getting very frustrating! It seems as tho the 5 minute counter just keeps 'randomly' reseting itself without having deposited a cargo container for me - I don't even get that crucial "first" container when I'm tyring to mine! <--- this is getting VERY annoying!
Show them no mercy ... for you shall receive none! |
Aldamar
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Posted - 2003.07.06 17:34:00 -
[28]
Developers, how about an official word on this timer since it was NOT in the patch notes.
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.06 17:44:00 -
[29]
"My corporation hasn't found the containers to be an issue at all. What we usually do is just have our hauler leave one unit of whatever in the container so it doesn't blow up. And if you position yourself so you don't have to move when switching asteroids in the belt, then you'll need to make new containers fairly rarely."
Try mining with 6 or more people.
It will take 30 minutes just to get set up. I wouldn't mind if the timer were per person, but it seems as if the timer is reset if ANYONE within 100 km jettisons a can.
Which means that setting up a mining operation takes 5 minutes per miner involved. It took my corp 30 minutes to get set up. After that it wasn't much of a problem, but 30 minutes of a Thorax not mining because he's trying to get his first can out.
If you're a large corp that has 12 miners involved, that's an HOUR to set up.
If you have 24 miners - You're screwed. By the time you get everyone set up with a can, the first cans have exploded.
----------------
Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Kai Duracknar
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Posted - 2003.07.06 18:02:00 -
[30]
I agree the timer, as is, is totally the wrong way to go. limiting the number of containers each player can have in space to 3 is probably a better solution. (having a timer per person and only after the first container has been jetted is probably a better solution. )
also, to preserve the container if you are gonna be sitting in space for any lenght of time, the best way is to 'Pin' it.
Do this by creating a bookmark (form a loacal roid or some sutch) and calling it " don't remove form container" and puting it in the container. Now the pin will hold the container open, and has zero volume and zero value.
once you indi takes the last load from it ( the miners have moved on) he just pulls the 'Pin' and container goes Bang... simple
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