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Dren Nas
Big Johnson's
3
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
If/When the missile nurf goes through, the tengu might be poised to lose it's current seat as the king of PVE. If this does happen, what ship will the crown be passed to? hmmmmmm..... what is everyone's thoughts on the matter?
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
396
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
none. there is no other ship that is so versatile.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
53
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Posted - 2012.10.23 22:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
i thought mining titan was pve king? |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
132
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Posted - 2012.10.23 22:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mach still will be better........... so? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
721
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Posted - 2012.10.23 22:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:Mach still will be better........... so?
That was pretty much my take too. Mach already wins at missions and will continue to do so after the changes.
But that's mainly for anoms, belt ratting, and missions. In wormholes and exploration... I'm not sure yet. Depending on exactly how the aggression changes shake out, the Proteus is looking strong for exploration. Tengu won't be entirely obsolete though. |
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
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Posted - 2012.10.23 23:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
For anoms, the Thanatos trumps the Machariel. The Nightmare is also better against EM weak rats. The Tengu is still going to be the T3 of choice for PVE content as even with the reductions, HML's will still be the best medium sized long range weapon system. |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
To be Announced.
15
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Posted - 2012.10.23 23:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I wonder how the Golem will do after Missile Changes. Gotta love 25% lower Explosion Radius. |
Cage Man
Evil Guinea Pigs
12
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Posted - 2012.10.23 23:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't see what the fuss is... people weren't flying the tengu for its uber dps , it is mostly its versatility, which really isn't going to change in the next patch. So we loose some dps and range.. no biggie imo |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
2838
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Posted - 2012.10.24 01:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its the Maller
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ (my spaceblog) http://bit.ly/RB6X4C ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
701
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Posted - 2012.10.24 02:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
The tengu was NEVER the most efficient PVE option, there have always been many better options and even severa T1 BSs are better.
fact of the matter is tenngu is just easier, not better.
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Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
228
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Posted - 2012.10.24 04:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The tengu was NEVER the most efficient PVE option, there have always been many better options and even severa T1 BSs are better.
fact of the matter is tenngu is just easier, not better.
Quoting this man, for he speaks the truth. |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2012.10.24 06:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The tengu was NEVER the most efficient PVE option, there have always been many better options and even severa T1 BSs are better.
fact of the matter is tenngu is just easier, not better.
This, Tengu is a blitzing ship but it's damage is nothing really special. Compared to a Machariel it's a joke. |
Korvus Falek
Suicides-R-Us
BricK sQuAD.
14
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Posted - 2012.10.24 06:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vindicator is king ****. **** Tengus |
Iam a Spy2
solo and loveing it
5
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Posted - 2012.10.24 06:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tengu has small size and great tank but its dps is far shot off great.
Machariel is fast i can reach over 615 m/s with AB and fire my guns out passed 80k with barrage ammo and with in 45k and drone drop over 1300 dps with hail ammo.
so i get more then 2x the dps just about the same speed and range of a tengu and just as heavy tank. So the Machariel for a mission ship hands down is alot better then the tengu could ever hope for.
As for the Vindicator great dps its slower and gives up alot of tank for dps and 95% of Vindicators are blasers and short on range in my book Vindicator is and will allway be a pvp not pve ship. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
861
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Posted - 2012.10.24 11:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:none. there is no other ship that is so versatile.
Loki, but schhhhhht !
brb |
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
52
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Posted - 2012.10.24 12:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nerf Machs! Long live the Tengu! |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
226
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Posted - 2012.10.24 12:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
HAM Tengu or gank Machariel/Vindicator/Nightmare |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
4963
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Posted - 2012.10.24 13:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dren Nas wrote:If/When the missile nurf goes through, the tengu might be poised to lose it's current seat as the king of PVE. If this does happen, what ship will the crown be passed to? hmmmmmm..... what is everyone's thoughts on the matter?
HAM Tengu.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Threshner
19
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Posted - 2012.10.24 18:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
I will stick to my CNR. Good DPS Good Tank .... what is there not to love? |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
129
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Posted - 2012.10.24 19:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The tengu was NEVER the most efficient PVE option, there have always been many better options and even severa T1 BSs are better.
fact of the matter is tenngu is just easier, not better.
This'ing this, it's a noob friendly ship using a noob friendly weapons system. |
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
862
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Posted - 2012.10.24 20:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dren Nas wrote:If/When the missile nurf goes through, the tengu might be poised to lose it's current seat as the king of PVE. If this does happen, what ship will the crown be passed to? hmmmmmm..... what is everyone's thoughts on the matter?
HAM Tengu.
Sticks perfectly to "blitz" choice but seems some people have hard time figuring out what it means. Leave it alone the acutall 600 vs future 1K dps HAM Tengu without even knowing how missiles actually work.
This is good, they can contract to me their T2 fitted/rig Tengus for 250M each.
brb |
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.10.24 21:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dren Nas wrote:If/When the missile nurf goes through, the tengu might be poised to lose it's current seat as the king of PVE. If this does happen, what ship will the crown be passed to? hmmmmmm..... what is everyone's thoughts on the matter?
Pretty sure the Mach was the king before and will still be after. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
258
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Posted - 2012.10.25 03:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
All forms of PVE put together ... winner is LOKI.
It can do most types well. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
158
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Posted - 2012.10.25 05:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
I want to yell Legion... but I'm afraid I'd get laughed out of the room. ;( |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
26
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Posted - 2012.10.25 05:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:I don't see what the fuss is... people weren't flying the tengu for its uber dps , it is mostly its versatility, which really isn't going to change in the next patch. So we loose some dps and range.. no biggie imo
this basically....
I'll still run mine.
Isk for isk one of the best tanks around. I have a cheap yet effective permarun tank (dual gist b ssb, 2 passive racial resists) . For me...needed. Eve time comes at the end of long work days and doing the family bit. Many a time I have fallen asleep at the wheel and the tengu jsut kept on going. Did this once with a mach and damn near lost her (came to in time to go oh crap and gtfo as she went into hull damage lol).
DPS was never all that as well. If a dps monger....this was always the wrong pony to back. the lost dps to me is looking to be 1-2 salvos for a frig, 2-4 for a bc and 5-6 for a BS. Not end of the world. Good rof these roll off is short order anyway. But not an isk per hour zealot. Hell if I was, I wouldn't be in a tengu anyway lol. |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
79
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Posted - 2012.10.25 06:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Or you can go with rail tengu....(crickets), no really. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club
Transmission Lost
175
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Posted - 2012.10.25 06:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
For level 4 missions nothing beats the BIG GUNS.
Machariel, Nightmare, I hear the Drone/Rail Navy Domi is the bee's knees(hopefully still so after AI changes), Vindicator etc.
Nothing beats being able to one shot frigates in a blink of an eye and not having to count vollies.
Anyways I'm leaning toward Shield tanked 350mm/Sentry Drone Navy Domi completely filled with weapon and drone upgrades that make your eyes melt. |
SehrGute
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.10.25 07:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
hey, just stared up again after a brake form eve.. so can anyone point me with a link to these missiles changes? |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
126
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Posted - 2012.10.25 07:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Missiles changes
Also you may be interested in other changes they plan for Retribution, most of them are stickies on F&I subforum, rest is in dev blogs.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
SehrGute
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.10.25 08:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
hmm, locking at this changes. cruiser golem just seems to be a god pve choice....
but are this changes:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtfS55wysRHHdGQzQjBoeVRSUFRQVjF3QV84S1d2SFE#gid=0
base states or lvl.5 stats? |
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Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
183
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Posted - 2012.10.26 04:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:The tengu was NEVER the most efficient PVE option, there have always been many better options and even severa T1 BSs are better.
fact of the matter is tenngu is just easier, not better.
Somewhat true but very misleading.
PvE is plexing, mission running, etc. As such, a Mac/Nightmare can out perform a Tengu for just mission work but when exploration operations come into the picture -- I'm fairly certain a hell of a lot of pirate types would dearly love to see a pimp fit Mach show up trying to run complexes and such.
The most useful PvE ships fall to the T3 cruisers and the Tengu has been the top T3 for a very long time. If it balances out differently, that won't be bad at all bringing more diversity but to claim it's not the most efficient overall PVE option is inaccurate. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
78
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Posted - 2012.10.26 06:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Rattlesnake is L4 king.
Omni tanks. Switching hardners sucks and time is isk.
Carries all the correct dmg types at all the correct ranges.
Cruise missles are getting a buff for dps and still enough range to go out far enough for any mission.
RS got the newer drone damage upgrades.
Tengu and mach are old news. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2012.10.26 07:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Somewhat true but very misleading.
PvE is plexing, mission running, etc. As such, a Mac/Nightmare can out perform a Tengu for just mission work but when exploration operations come into the picture -- I'm fairly certain a hell of a lot of pirate types would dearly love to see a pimp fit Mach show up trying to run complexes and such.
The most useful PvE ships fall to the T3 cruisers and the Tengu has been the top T3 for a very long time. If it balances out differently, that won't be bad at all bringing more diversity but to claim it's not the most efficient overall PVE option is inaccurate.
It's truth that Tengu is a good PvE option for combination of applied DPS, tank and ability to GTFO. I can see why some null people are happy with incoming HAM Tengus - range is somewhat irrelevant for ratting if you avae proper bookmarks (if anything, you always have catalized AB and you won't be motorboating too much anyways; and yes, fuel catalyst is the thing because of improved agility which is important for mentioned gtfo activity), and blowing apart beefy BSs faster is nice.
But OP was talking about "hisec PvE", meaning mostly missions I presume, and Tengu won't be too awesome for that (if maybe good by my standards, as I've said). |
Cutter Isaacson
Nouvelle Rouvenor
1848
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Posted - 2012.10.26 13:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dren Nas wrote:If/When the missile nurf goes through, the tengu might be poised to lose it's current seat as the king of PVE. If this does happen, what ship will the crown be passed to? hmmmmmm..... what is everyone's thoughts on the matter?
HAM Tengu.
Definitely this. Running missions against Serpentis in my PvE HAMgu is pretty nice. 45% cap stable, 533m/s, 2225 sustained defence, 72k EHP and 1443 volley means the little rats die nice and fast 
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak. |
Threshner
21
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Posted - 2012.10.26 14:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Rattlesnake is L4 king.
Omni tanks. Switching hardners sucks and time is isk.
Carries all the correct dmg types at all the correct ranges.
Cruise missles are getting a buff for dps and still enough range to go out far enough for any mission.
RS got the newer drone damage upgrades.
Tengu and mach are old news.
If the 5 seconds for taking the time to change your hardeners is in your calculation for time/isk for missions i am very scared at how you would react to a phone call heh.
Jokes aside of course. I trained for a tengu and never really saw a good reason for it other than blitzing. I like killing everything and am kinda glad to hear there will be a new flavor of the month or well for the tengu i guess year lol.
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Justin Valentine
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2012.10.29 12:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dren Nas wrote:If/When the missile nurf goes through, the tengu might be poised to lose it's current seat as the king of PVE. If this does happen, what ship will the crown be passed to? hmmmmmm..... what is everyone's thoughts on the matter?
HAM Tengu.
He speaks the truth, after the expansion the new ham Tengu useing range ammo will still hit 750dps at 50k with better damage on small targets than current hml..
Switch ammo to fury for 1k + dps.
The Tengu will survive the nerf, tbh it really is getting a large buff to damage with a big but acceptable range reduction.
It possibly will be a better mission runner than it is now. |
Marc Gardner
U-99
AAA Citizens
1
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Posted - 2012.10.30 08:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Quote:He speaks the truth, after the expansion the new ham Tengu useing range ammo will still hit 750dps at 50k with better damage on small targets than current hml..
Switch ammo to fury for 1k + dps.
As someone who has tried for hours to come up with the best possible rattingfit for the winbter expansion, i have just one statement:
"Fit or it didnt happend!"
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mama guru
Thundercats
The Initiative.
60
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Posted - 2012.10.30 10:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Marc Gardner wrote:Quote:He speaks the truth, after the expansion the new ham Tengu useing range ammo will still hit 750dps at 50k with better damage on small targets than current hml..
Switch ammo to fury for 1k + dps. As someone who has tried for hours to come up with the best possible rattingfit for the winbter expansion, i have just one statement: "Fit or it didnt happend!"
4x Naby BCS
6 launchers with accelerated ejection bay - maxed skills
Scourge Rage assault missile
2x 3% implants
Puts you at 1001 dps with the winter patch.
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |
Marc Gardner
U-99
AAA Citizens
1
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Posted - 2012.10.30 10:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
he was talking about range = javelin ammo?
IMO 550-600 dps with javlin is possible but not 750, as he stated.
while dps for rage is incredible high, thats true, it also rather shortranged 
best i could do: 683dps
5%-imps, all5
[Tengu, ham to the max]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
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ACE McFACE
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
843
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Posted - 2012.10.30 10:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
I'm pretty sure a Mach was always better than a Tengu anyway
"7 pages of people insulting me - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar
What s/he (probably he) meant:
"7 pages of people disagreeing with my terrible idea - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar |
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Raiko Osburn
Malevolent Intentions
Ineluctable.
7
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Posted - 2012.10.30 12:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
Well, for lazy PvE Tengu will still be the king. Have you seen The Simpsons part where Homer used this bird figurine to run atomic reactor? Thats what tengu is about. Average performance for almost no effort.
But for real PvE, Tengu is nowhere near some other options like Machariel or marauders like Vargur. Just try to compare time you need to do same mission with tengu and vargur. Tengu can win only by blitzing. Otherwise Vargur pilot will be in the middle of another mission before tengu pilot is done with first one.
Forget numbers, play with ideas, look for solutions. |
Lucy Oreless
Raptus-Regaliter
EntroPraetorian Aegis
45
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Posted - 2012.10.30 14:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
I vote for Nightmare, no matter what racial-rats.. The DPS is so staggering you dont even need much tank since "gank is tank" too..
Second place is Machariel (in the same enviropment as the NM and also for specific missions).
For "afk'ish" times i use the Rattlesnake with its T2 sentrys.
I have tried both CNR's, Tengus and whatnots but i came to the conclusion i dont like missiles for others than the visuals.. so i rather use the most effective ships..
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you wanna PVP? Join us -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=162144 |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
219
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Posted - 2012.10.30 18:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Klymer wrote:For anoms, the Thanatos trumps the Machariel. The Nightmare is also better against EM weak rats. The Tengu is still going to be the T3 of choice for PVE content as even with the reductions, HML's will still be the best medium sized long range weapon system.
Hate to break it to you, but with the new A.I. changes carriers will not work for missions or ratting any more. All NPC's will target fighters and drones while ignoring the carrier. The fighters and drones get pretty much insta popped. The carrier is just to big, no amount of threat can over come the NPC's bias toward targeting ships as close as possible to there own size. Battleships can no longer hold agro off light drones, and carriers are far worse as they are much much bigger. |
Arrigo Glokta
18
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Posted - 2012.10.30 18:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Raiko Osburn wrote:Well, for lazy PvE Tengu will still be the king. Have you seen The Simpsons part where Homer used this bird figurine to run atomic reactor? Thats what tengu is about. Average performance for almost no effort.
But for real PvE, Tengu is nowhere near some other options like Machariel or marauders like Vargur. Just try to compare time you need to do same mission with tengu and vargur. Tengu can win only by blitzing. Otherwise Vargur pilot will be in the middle of another mission before tengu pilot is done with first one.
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