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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.29 21:29:00 -
[1]
Wouldnt it be cool.. if CCP thought of turning CONCORD into a player organisation. Where only trustworthy recuited players have access to data of players movements for apprehending wrongdoers, Escrow scammers and most wanted dudes.
This organisation could be under the GMs or mods, ppl are known to be trustwrothly so the data isnt being leaked to eve public.
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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2005.03.29 21:33:00 -
[2]
Heh but there wouldn't be enough players to cover all the empire systems and besides im sure they'd get bored waiting around for some action. 
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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.29 21:36:00 -
[3]
Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 29/03/2005 21:37:57
nah i dont mean a huge organistaion, small enough to have loads to do, but big enough to make a differnce. Like jumping into a system, seeing gankers and warning them to move.
maybe theres warrant out for a escrow scammer whos nailed someone of huge amounts of isk. They would be given his movements and go after him. Cat and mouse style.
lets face it ppl whinge about scams gankers etc ore theives..
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Kane Jacobs
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Posted - 2005.03.29 21:40:00 -
[4]
Just think of all the wonderful greifing I mean justice... JOY !
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.29 21:46:00 -
[5]
Something like this would be a step in right direction.
Sure, it would introduce new problems, such as corruption, negligence, and just difference of opinion. But those problems can be minimized with proper design for the system. And it could go a long way to bring some accountability to empire space. It would make the world seem more dynamic and alive, since people behind CONCORD could direct its actions directly in response to player activities.
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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.29 21:53:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Face Lifter
Something like this would be a step in right direction.
Sure, it would introduce new problems, such as corruption, negligence, and just difference of opinion. But those problems can be minimized with proper design for the system. And it could go a long way to bring some accountability to empire space. It would make the world seem more dynamic and alive, since people behind CONCORD could direct its actions directly in response to player activities.
and the PPl directing it would be GMs. Run the organisation like a bizness. Have weekly targets to fill( achievable targets ) where as all info is logged and shown.
CONCORD poilice players would have their own web-area where details, data, statagies would be discussed and relayed only back to accountable staff under CCP.
Patrols could be setup in known ganking areas. Logs and screen shots would be submitted for evidence to C.P.P ( concord police players ) if foul play of game mechanics was evident.
They would then follow this up.
/shrugs.
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Rambles
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Posted - 2005.03.29 22:06:00 -
[7]
1'st mining mission in the tutorial, mining this asteroid and get killed by Concord ???
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Myko
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Posted - 2005.03.29 22:42:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Myko on 29/03/2005 22:41:54
you used to be able to join the CONCORD corporation...sadly they removed that, there were only about fifteen of us in there, after one patch (the one that effectively removed concord and ded agents) we all ended up in the Gallente n00b corp...
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.03.29 23:30:00 -
[9]
gms who replace ships when u just say, right click in space didnt work - how could you expect normal players to be fair?
its an idea that would never work..
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.29 23:43:00 -
[10]
How does police in real life works?
a cop can pull you over for speeding and write a ticket even tho you didn't. You can go to court, maybe you'll win maybe you won't. You still lose the time and money in the process. Does it happen in real life? sure, but does police work well in general? damn right
You can't use slippery slopes here about what could happen if
It all depends on exact design of the system, a well thought out and planned out system will work as it should.
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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 30/03/2005 09:23:04
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
gms who replace ships when u just say, right click in space didnt work - how could you expect normal players to be fair?
its an idea that would never work..
why would it not work? I can see no reason why, plsu it would add an xtra feel of realism that facelift already mentioned to the game.
CONCORD as it is, is useless. I mean they kill me for agressive behaviour in empire but watch as rats attack me in other space.
Really, what is the point? A player run corp of CONCORD would at least be more realistc and it would alter the universe of EVE players. Making users more accountable for their actions.
PLus it wouldnt be that hard to setup. I doubr theyd have to radically alter any code for this.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:30:00 -
[12]
Players running newbie protection agencies is a Bad IdeaÖ.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 30/03/2005 09:31:19
as facelifter said in another post
Quote:
I'd agree that EVE encourages corruption, scams, and generally "bad" behavior. EVE has its own society, and like any society, it needs rules and police to avoid slipping into anarchy. Even in most civilized and cultured cities, without police things would get ugly rather quick
EVE has CONCORD, which is a bit stupid, but strong. EVE also has limited degree of freedom, which prevents many possible abuses. However, EVE is missing a lot in terms of accountability, especially with moral issues. It allows things like scams, corp theft, mindless ganking to go unpunished, without any effective way for victims to revenge.
EVE is a game of opportunity and I can agree that in areas such as 0.0 all of that immoral crap is to be expected. But I really don't see why it should be so bad in high security empire space.
I say there needs to be some kind of criminal justice system, preferably with AI as backbone and dedicated official representatives to make quick adjustments depending on situation and other key decisions.
In 0.0 there should be ways for groups of players, such as alliances, to create their own criminal justice systems, their own police and enforceable rules - I know it's impossible to make it as effective as real life equivalents, but anything is better than nothing. If that is doable, you'll have alliances with different reputations depending on their rules and their success of enforcing those rules.
For that to work, there need to be more effective ways of capturing or at least confronting people against their will. There need to be effective ways of dealing with alts. PvP rules would need adjustment.
Devs fear allowing players to force PvP on those who don't want to. Sure, this may help protect the carebears, but it also protects all the scum of the universe. I say - if carebears want protection, let them be in empire. Out in 0.0 there should be absolutely no easy way of avoiding confrontation. Learn to deal with people there the good way, or face their vengeance. No safe spots, even logging off shouldn't save you. But I'm getting carried away..
whys it a bad idea? FFS so much negativity.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
why would it not work? I can see no reason why, plsu it would add an xtra feel of realism that facelift already mentioned to the game.
Concord sanctioned Gankers. lol.
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
CONCORD as it is, is useless. I mean they kill me for agressive behaviour in empire but watch as rats attack me in other space.
Concord is non-immersive, agreed.
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
Really, what is the point? A player run corp of CONCORD would at least be more realistc and it would alter the universe of EVE players. Making users more accountable for their actions.
No, it makes some users more accountable for their actions. Bias for the win.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:39:00 -
[15]
Its a cool idea, but as soon as this player run CONCORD actually did anything there would be loads of whining and accusations of bias.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
whys it a bad idea? FFS so much negativity.
-Who will run it
-What will be their rewards
-How do you ensure that there's ALWAYS someone on
-How many do there need to be on (seeing there's like 2500 systems that need concord patrolling)
-How are you going to punish players for not attaining goals
-If GM's are needed to oversee, where are you going to get them from
-If players quit, wehre are you going to get new ones from
Etc etc etc etc.
Basically, there's no way for you to create a player run Concord without bias, without accusations, without scamming, unfair treatment of cases, without GM supervision and a punishment system. This means that these players either need Volunteer status (Eris Discordia patrolling newb system with a license to kill scares the crap outta me) or need to become GM's, which means they get on a payroll.
These are the problems I can see, off the top of my head. Basically, a player-run policeforce in a game of this magnitude is unfeasible and undesirable. Better upgrade or alter Concord AI, far cheaper and easier.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:46:00 -
[17]
Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 30/03/2005 09:47:06
and if it were to be run by mods who run this forum how can it? Your modding I assume is following strict guidelines set out by the devs.
I cant see why this would be any different from a player protection corp. And sides, theres corruption in the real world too remember, nothings perfect. Plus theres internal affairs depts who investigate corrupt police actions.
quit putting obstacles up! lol
Prehaps a trail in one region to determine feasibility?
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Discorporation
(Eris Discordia patrolling newb system with a license to kill scares the crap outta me)
Scares me too..  
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: 3rdD Dave
Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 30/03/2005 09:47:06
and if it were to be run by mods who run this forum how can it? Your modding I assume is following strict guidelines set out by the devs.
I cant see why this would be any different from a player protection corp. And sides, theres corruption in the real world too remember, nothings perfect. Plus theres internal affairs depts who investigate corrupt police actions.
quit putting obstacles up! lol
Prehaps a trail in one region to determine feasibility?
So, an investigation committee (internal affairs lolz) needs to be instated too?
My, gets more and more complicated. Perhaps you should think this through a little more 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:50:00 -
[20]
Missions. Simple as that. I think that's the only way we can ever "join" Concord is through doing missions for them. And even then the standing modifier would need to be halved for CONCORD since you'd also gain sec. status from it (the reason they got disabled to begin with).
Wouldn't call it high-priority though.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:51:00 -
[21]
Disco, you can be the sheriff if I can be your deputy.
We could bring peace and justice to Eve!!
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Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.30 09:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Raem Civrie
Missions. Simple as that. I think that's the only way we can ever "join" Concord is through doing missions for them. And even then the standing modifier would need to be halved for CONCORD since you'd also gain sec. status from it (the reason they got disabled to begin with).
Wouldn't call it high-priority though.
That's entirely different from what the OP is suggesting, though
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Fendor Atar
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Posted - 2005.03.30 10:26:00 -
[23]
well the idea is intresting really ofcourse there are lots and lots of details that would have to be sorted for it ever to work.. since when have u seen a police officer with a license to kill?
if any of these player cops would do something not following a strict code they will booted from the corp and fined (huge fine here)
there is ways to avoid corruption and griefing you just have to work for it
but as usual the PvPers whine when these kinds of ideas pop up (sry guys but u really are big babys sometimes)
just me opinion..
may the flaming baegin *sigh*
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3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.30 12:34:00 -
[24]
The player cops would be Vetted by Gms. No one with a low security rating could apply for the job and no-one linked with a pirate corp and maybe and no-one with a history of low-security that has worked themselves back to empire space.
Theres loads of ppl who have decent rating who could apply so getting ppl who are on face value honest may not be such a problem.
And after all, the successful candidates would be under the eye of mods or gms.
Discorporation
Quote:
Who will run it
-What will be their rewards
-How do you ensure that there's ALWAYS someone on
-How many do there need to be on (seeing there's like 2500 systems that need concord patrolling)
-How are you going to punish players for not attaining goals
-If GM's are needed to oversee, where are you going to get them from
-If players quit, wehre are you going to get new ones from
Vetted players could run it.
Rewards? Im sure some reward program could be thought up. Isk or ship etc.
You cant always insure players are on. But what if you were scammed on escrow, or your ore looted. You could lodge a complaint in which would be investigated.
2500 systems? Obvioiusly you cant be in every area at once. No real police force can. You can only what you can like patrolling known ganker gates and areas that genearate concerns.
You dont punish players for not attaining goals as in real life jobs you dont.But performace related rewards could be implemented. Achieveable goals would be needed in order for it to work, so perhaps only the worst offenders could be looked at.
if players quit.. vet new ones. theres no shortage. And think about it. If this forum had a poll system you could probably get a good idea of how many ppl would like to try this job, imo id say it would be quite high.
Also the current concord is rubbish. If a player police was implemented along side the AI one,it would also perhaps allow the blackmarket to flurish.
I think it would be awesome to buy contraband on the bm and try getting it past real player police. It would ensure a proper sense of danger and risk as currently i can fly past concord and with contraband with no problems.
player police could scan ships for this and act.
look its only an idea and I cant think of everything, but surely it would add an xtra depth to any already great game with out massive code changes.
Really, organisation would be the key to it.
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Cinnander
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Posted - 2005.03.30 12:38:00 -
[25]
Surely if you want someone ... taken care of who - for instance - escrow scammed you, you don't go to the police you go to the Local Organised Crime Body. Then they can put a Hit out on the guy for you.
Breifcase of money under the table and all that. |
3rdD Dave
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Posted - 2005.03.30 12:44:00 -
[26]
Yes and no, cos only the player police would have accurate data of said criminals location in game( if at all possible ) unlike what it currently is. ( sketchy )
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2005.03.30 12:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Avon
Disco, you can be the sheriff if I can be your deputy.
We could bring peace and justice to Eve!!
That idea scares me even more than Eris..
But honestly, we've been more or less forced to put a lot of restrictions on people in ISD because of wild accusations of bias. I know that the numbers of real ISD abuse since I started can be counted on my fingers, possably on both hands, but thats it. As a simple example we regularly get abused by people to belong to this alliance and that corp, and people are usually wrong. In some cases the moderator who warned someone has been sitting in his own corp or alliance chat and heard long rants regarding that warning.
Ok, I went a bit beyond the topic there, but bottom line is that there would be too much accusations of abuse and bias to ever pull this off.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2005.03.30 12:48:00 -
[28]
DROKK!! The perp has a gankageddon!
La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs
Star Fraction
http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.03.30 12:51:00 -
[29]
why do you need concord to go around catching pirates? you can do it as normal players too. involving concord will inevitably lead to H4XGMSPL01TZTTIM1N3R2KTHXBYE.
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