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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.10.30 00:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am a long time fan of this game and have 5 alts that I use. I recently got married and my wife is blind, yet she and her visually impaired friends wish to join us in the EVE Online experience. The issue is, the screen readers we have access to are unable to read the EVE HUD.
I would like to see if CCP could either alter the HUD so that it can be read by screen readers such as Apple's built in Voiceover or NVDA for Windows, or create an alternate HUD screen reader that works within EVE. Even a simple system to start with that would allow them to manage inventory, ship build and mining targeting based on a tabbing system would be a great start.
Please make it possible for my wife and myself to enjoy the EVE Online experience together. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1075
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 01:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's not that I don't sympathize with your wife and all... but find it a bit hard to believe that any audio program can convey the staggering amount of visual information that even non-visually impaired people have trouble working through.
In PvP alone you have to be able to ID a target, know it's range, heading, speed in conjunction to your own heading and speed... glance over at D-scan... then correct your own heading and speed by double clicking into nothingness... all in the space of a few seconds.
If there is such a program that can do all that then I will admit to being impressed and support this thread. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.10.30 01:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well I'm hoping to have them just be able to use a simple interface for mining and rat farming to start. Move up to an interface that can assist with missions and then PvP later. Just starting and seeing where we can go with this is all I'm looking for. She already plays a MUD named Miriani that involves an x,y,z co-ord system on a command base interface. Maybe that's a way to go? Maybe a hot-key system that will move them to certain windows that then can then scroll through.
Anyone else have any ideas that they could use? |

Hemansesh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.11.01 09:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:It's not that I don't sympathize with your wife and all... but find it a bit hard to believe that any audio program can convey the staggering amount of visual information that even non-visually impaired people have trouble working through.
In PvP alone you have to be able to ID a target, know it's range, heading, speed in conjunction to your own heading and speed... glance over at D-scan... then correct your own heading and speed by double clicking into nothingness... all in the space of a few seconds.
If there is such a program that can do all that then I will admit to being impressed and support this thread.
The program is the easy part, people with visual impairments use software called screenreaders (such as NVDA and voiceover) to read out textual information on the screen. It's not very difficult to expose information to them, even rich interactions and live updating content.
So the trick is to abstract out a bit. Instead of thinking purely in termsof what the interface looks like, thnk again about whether it really is visual information, or whether it in fact information that is being represented visually. A subtle but very important difference.
Granted, for many game mechanics this isn't possible. But EVE is a bit of a special case. The information communicated through the API certainly isn't visual, even though it is represented visually in the EVE client. It's just textual data. You can see that clearly enough through the third party apps that have been developed, such as Aura and Neocom.
Neocom for example is completely accessible to players who are blind.
But the real reason why EVE is a special case is the overview scanner. Live updating textual information describing your environment, distances, types, and allowing the full range of interactions (the live text updates on combat, damage etc, are also ripe for exposing). Whatever it's possible for you to do in the overview panel it would also be relatively easy to do if you have little or no vision.
Back in the old days of MMOs (MUDs and MOOs) all information was conveyed by text, and therefore easily screereader accessible. This layer of data still exists, it just has a layer of visual interpretation over the top. If that data can be exposed then blind and strongly visually impaired players would have access to a large portion of the game.
Granted screenreader users aren't a small audience, but given the fact that a significant chunk of the work is already done thanks to the overview scanner it needn't be too huge an undertaking, would be something truly ground-breaking, and gain some very loyal & vocal new customers
Being the only major MMO accessible to that audience, ie. a completely empty competitive landscape, would be a pretty enviable position to be in. |

Hemansesh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 10:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
On a similar note, although it has some great features for certain groups of disabled gamers (such as being able to play with the mouse alone, and having subtitles on by default before the intro plays) in other areas it is being left in the dust by the competition.
Word of Warcraft, for example, has 8 different colour-blind modes. Compare that to EVE - red-black issues for colourblind EVE gamer
There's alot that can be done very easily.. addressing text presentation (size, adding drop shadow to distinguish white text from white background etc), double click speed and so on, simple changes that avoid people being excluded for little cost and without negative impact for other players.
More info is available on the game accessibility guidelines site. |

Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.11.06 21:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
It would be interesting to see if a CCP Dev has any thoughts on this. |

Kuro Bon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.11.07 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
How blind accessible is wow?
It seems to me a huge challenge down this path is botting.
Certainly every piece of information in an memo could be presented as raw text in a special client. However, there would be more boys reading it than blind players.
EVE is already too bottable. The overview and right click menus offering easy fixed screen location targets to Bot. That's why I mention wow. It has done a much better job of anti botting by making much more information require human visual cognition to understand.
How do you propose to help the blind with out helping the bitters? |

Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
59
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Posted - 2012.11.07 15:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
There could be probably text input and special client for game, commands clicked could be the commands writed. All text and descriptions could then be readed in artificial voice. Red Maiden: People actually play with WiS off? Why? It's really well done, and adds an excellent layer of immersion in the game. Plus, my character's ass is out of this world and I like looking at it. |

Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.11.07 18:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:There could be probably text input and special client for game, commands clicked could be the commands writed. All text and descriptions could then be readed in artificial voice.
That's exactly what I am hoping for. A separate client to read off and input text. It would have far less system requirements as well since it wouldn't need to display any graphical properties. They don't even have to incorporate the voice, it could just be visible to screen readers that already exist for Mac and Windows.
|

Azstra
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.11.13 15:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bump. Because I know at least one blind person who would love to come in and rule the markets with an iron fist. |
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CCP Falcon
999

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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'd love it if we could make EVE more accessible for those who suffer from eyesight or hearing disabilities, this sounds like an awesome idea and I'll point it out to a few people in the office to see if we can get some discussion going 
In the meantime, ideas from players are always welcome on how we could improve things in this respect 
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á-á@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents
-- Disciple Of The Delicious Tea -- |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10721
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
This sounds like a great idea. I hope CCP can make the changes required.
+1
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
18
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Posted - 2012.11.22 19:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:It's not that I don't sympathize with your wife and all... but find it a bit hard to believe that any audio program can convey the staggering amount of visual information that even non-visually impaired people have trouble working through.
In PvP alone you have to be able to ID a target, know it's range, heading, speed in conjunction to your own heading and speed... glance over at D-scan... then correct your own heading and speed by double clicking into nothingness... all in the space of a few seconds.
If there is such a program that can do all that then I will admit to being impressed and support this thread.
You'd be surprised. I have a blind friend who can find information (visually oriented or otherwise) from almost any webpage as quickly as I can.
It's because websites usually have tags on almost any image or object that can be read out loud to blind people through earphones. AND there are programs that allow the computer to speak much more quickly than humans can, but without raising the pitch (like if you just sped up a tape recorder). To the point where they can have text read to them as quickly as you could mentally read it to yourself visually.
I don't know if it would be worth developer time to do that sort of thing for the small portion of visually impaired people (no offense), but it would almost certainly be possible. |

Jaling Orion
New Edens United Nation Li3 Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.11.27 22:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I'd love it if we could make EVE more accessible for those who suffer from eyesight or hearing disabilities, this sounds like an awesome idea and I'll point it out to a few people in the office to see if we can get some discussion going  In the meantime, ideas from players are always welcome on how we could improve things in this respect 
Thank you! Hopefully this can spark some attention and interesting ideas from you guys!
Crimeo Khamsi wrote: Do note however, that I don't have all that much faith in EVE's ability to set up a tag system like that as efficiently as it would need to be. Considering that we don't even have different versions of the same ammunition or modules sorted together in our market lists... the much more complicated goal of comprehensible audio tags on everything seems a bit out of the realm of likelihood.
Just like our UI, it is something that will be under constant improvement. Just having it created would be a huge step, then the visually impaired can give feedback on how to make it better using their experience with other accessible programs and so on and so forth. CCP has gotten much better at listening to the players and making adjustments accordingly, and when it comes to this crowd, it is something that they will benefit from. |

Caprasia
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 22:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Not being blind myself, but very interested in accessibility from a game design perspective. Eve seems like the best sort of game to be fully playable by the blind. It'd be a huge pity to miss this opportunity to involve the larger disabled community in games.
+1 I fully support this. |

Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven
52
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Posted - 2013.01.06 12:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
I bet a fully blind person could mine, run missions and trade fairly easily once CCP could get Aura to read out data to a user.
Cautionary note: It would be better if it was an in-game solution because once you start sending real data out of the game, say to a 3rd party application, some botter will use it to his advantage.
The more people in eve the better ... +1. AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.
|

Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
129
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Posted - 2013.01.06 14:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1 [PROPOSAL] INGAME ADVERTS FOR PLAYERS |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
549
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Posted - 2013.01.06 14:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Beta Miner wrote:I bet a fully blind person could mine, run missions and trade fairly easily once CCP could get Aura to read out data to a user.
Cautionary note: It would be better if it was an in-game solution because once you start sending real data out of the game, say to a 3rd party application, some botter will use it to his advantage.
The more people in eve the better ... +1.
The most successful bots - confidential ones - already read codes out of the client instead of OCR the interface. Eve is easy to bot because game mechanics is already "spreadsheet online," whether you show the spreadsheet on the surface is irrelevant. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Jaling Orion
New Edens United Nation Li3 Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 19:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Beta Miner wrote: The more people in eve the better ... +1.
Thanks to everyone who has supported this idea so far. I look forward to getting more support from both players and CCP Devs alike to make this idea become a reality. :) |

Rosy Cheeks
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 14:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Long overdue bump, don't let this get buried. |
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Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2013.04.14 19:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anyone know if the "updated accessibility" teased about in the next expansion has anything to do with this? Care to weigh in CCP? :) |

Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bumping for interest! |

DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
165
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 because I have a disabled Father. It doesn't matter how little added effect audio cues or visual cues would add to the game experience because ANYTHING that helps someone visually/audibly impaired is an improvement. For those of you who knock this down and DON'T have any Family who have issues (or aren't yourself) you need to walk away from this thread, you have no business here.
CCP can make it so that by default the impairment options are disabled so the currently playing/new players who have no such issue are none the wiser. Aura could give one little paragraph in the very beginning about impairment and if the toon wishes to start that tutorial to walk them through setting it up. The Operative:-á"There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:-á"You have no idea how true that is". |

Mascha Tzash
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
First: Congratulations OP, that you found your signifcant other. 
Second:
Hemansesh wrote:
So the trick is to abstract out a bit. Instead of thinking purely in termsof what the interface looks like, thnk again about whether it really is visual information, or whether it is in fact information that is being represented visually.
A subtle but very important difference.
Granted, for many game mechanics this isn't possible. But EVE is a bit of a special case. The information communicated through the API certainly isn't visual, even though it is represented visually in the EVE client. It's just textual data. You can see that clearly enough through the third party apps that have been developed, such as Aura and Neocom.
Neocom for example is completely accessible to players who are blind.
But the real reason why EVE is a special case is the overview scanner. Live updating textual information describing your environment, distances, types, and allowing the full range of interactions (the live text updates on combat, damage etc, are also ripe for exposing). Whatever it's possible for you to do in the overview panel it would also be relatively easy to do if you have little or no vision.
This is the most understandable explanation to me, how people with visual problems could access the world of gaming. Thanks for this one!
Perhaps the new overview scan results could be represented in a surround sound environment? I have no clue if it was possible to "display" the signatures up- and downwards of the equatorial plane of the solar systems. But I can think of crumbling sounds to represent grav-sites, a low hum for magnetos, a pinging sound for radars or so. |

Jaling Orion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thank you for those that are supporting this. Please tell your corps and spread the word about this thread! I would love for this to get enough attention to have CCP at least take it under serious consideration. |

Jaling Orion
Radioactive Lobster Inc.
15
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Posted - 2013.06.16 21:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bumping for support! |

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
382
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 23:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
There actually is a blind person who plays EVE, although they tend to do PvE. They posted in F&I sometime last month. |

Jaling Orion
Radioactive Lobster Inc.
15
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Posted - 2013.06.17 15:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Do you know a username or forum title? |
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