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Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2012.11.08 16:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
Honour.. in EVE? Never, ever expect it from others. That's just the way Eve is. Eve is one of the few games which allows a**hats to do their thing while actually encouraging a**hats to be a**hats. I just don't understand null sec players.
Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you. |

La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
240
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Posted - 2012.11.08 16:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Honor in EVE died via natural selection. All people who tout ~ebushido~ are consigning themselves to the same fate. npc alts aren't people |

Bud Austrene
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.08 23:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
I think some are missing that honor is defined by some by "doing what is right" or appropriate. Some seem convinced that to play eve with honor is dumb and not doing it right.
I am glad that I am not alone in my attitude. But don't get me wrong, I certainly would not want everyone to have my attitude |

Toriessian
Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober
37
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Posted - 2012.11.09 00:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Following a personally set code of "honor" or behavior is one thing.
Thinking there is some communal sense of "honor" is stupidity on the level of flying a freighter with 50 bil in it from Jita to Amarr on autopilot....
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Jason13 Anzomi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.11.09 13:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
Is there honor in Eve?
First define what you mean by honor and then the answer will become obvious. Try reading what Wiki has to say about the meaning of honor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour
"Honour is a code of behaviour that defines the duties of an individual within a social group. Margaret Visser observes that in an honour-based society 'a person is what he or she is in the eyes of other people'."
So if a group of players banded together to do massive scamming and theft, they are a society (within a larger society: the game) and their mutual scamming would be honorable within their group. Consequently if one of the group pulled a scam on another one within the group, it would be honorable to those within the group. To somone outside of their group they might be dishonorable, but only in comparison to a different set of social rules.
I think the original post actually mis-used the word "honor" in an attempt to ask whether his personal set of rules had a place within Eve. In that case the answer would be yes since it is a sandbox where any set of personal rules are perfectly fine. And if he finds a group of other players with similar behavior rules, they can form a small society within the larger society where their sense of honor matches each other. Or he can even play solo with a small society consisting of only himself.
Is there any particular set of personal or societal rules that are not considered acceptable within Eve? The answer is simply that any behavior is acceptable as long as a GM does not object. In life we have our personal belief system, peer acceptance, social behavior rules, social laws, religion and other behavior modifications. In a game such as Eve we have similar behavior modifications. We log in with our personal beliefs, we group with others to form a peer group, we have a perceived Eve players accepted behavior, GM "laws" and other behavior modifications. But the only one with teeth is the almighty power of God (the GM) looking over your logs. The rest are simply social behavior modifications and are able to be adopted or ignored.
Yes, there is a place for honor within Eve. Find a corp that fits your personal beliefs and be honorable within your corp. If they're scammers, liers and thieves, rip off the corp and laugh. If they try to teach and help newbies, find a newbie to mentor. Whatever your social group does, do it well and you have achieved an honorable game experience. |

Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
45
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Posted - 2012.11.09 13:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:I think some are missing that honor is defined by some by "doing what is right" or appropriate. Some seem convinced that to play eve with honor is dumb and not doing it right.
I am glad that I am not alone in my attitude. But don't get me wrong, I certainly would not want everyone to have my attitude
Agreed but in Eve, never expect it from others. It's very sad but it is what Eve is. There are plenty of people who play with honor. I just don't understand null sec players.
Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you. |

Bud Austrene
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.09 17:41:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:Is there honor in Eve? First define what you mean by honor and then the answer will become obvious. Try reading what Wiki has to say about the meaning of honor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour"Honour is a code of behaviour that defines the duties of an individual within a social group. Margaret Visser observes that in an honour-based society 'a person is what he or she is in the eyes of other people'." So if a group of players banded together to do massive scamming and theft, they are a society (within a larger society: the game) and their mutual scamming would be honorable within their group. Consequently if one of the group pulled a scam on another one within the group, it would be honorable to those within the group. To somone outside of their group they might be dishonorable, but only in comparison to a different set of social rules. I think the original post actually mis-used the word "honor" in an attempt to ask whether his personal set of rules had a place within Eve. In that case the answer would be yes since it is a sandbox where any set of personal rules are perfectly fine. And if he finds a group of other players with similar behavior rules, they can form a small society within the larger society where their sense of honor matches each other. Or he can even play solo with a small society consisting of only himself. Is there any particular set of personal or societal rules that are not considered acceptable within Eve? The answer is simply that any behavior is acceptable as long as a GM does not object. In life we have our personal belief system, peer acceptance, social behavior rules, social laws, religion and other behavior modifications. In a game such as Eve we have similar behavior modifications. We log in with our personal beliefs, we group with others to form a peer group, we have a perceived Eve players accepted behavior, GM "laws" and other behavior modifications. But the only one with teeth is the almighty power of God (the GM) looking over your logs. The rest are simply social behavior modifications and are able to be adopted or ignored. Yes, there is a place for honor within Eve. Find a corp that fits your personal beliefs and be honorable within your corp. If they're scammers, liers and thieves, rip off the corp and laugh. If they try to teach and help newbies, find a newbie to mentor. Whatever your social group does, do it well and you have achieved an honorable game experience.
This is the answer i was hoping and looking for. I have realized for a long time that behavior is very situational and dependent on ones surroundings and associations. I guess i was just looking for some validation and that i was not alone in the way i see things.
I thank you all for your input.
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Komen
Capital Enrichment Services Transmission Lost
147
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:Personally, having honor makes me feel good. But defining honor is often times not clear cut. Some PVPers consider in unhonorable to gank a newbie. Some like Red vs Blue feel that it is unhonorable to not fight fair within the alliance but anything goes outside of the alliance. It seems some PVPer are nothing more than terrorists and have no honor at all. I have noticed that a player Jame315 has taken on the role of a gangster and is selling protection.
I realize that there are few controls (like Concord) in eve and I like it that way. Having the opportunity to be dishonorable and choosing not to be, gives the choice more value. I do not understand why players would revel in being a rabid beast with no honor. Whenever i tried to do that, it made me fill bad.
So the question is;
Does honor any place in eve?
I am not a terrorist; I am a marauder - I kill everything I find.
A terrorist plots specific acts of violence in coordination with a propaganda campaign in order to achieve societal shifts or convince a ruling power to change policy or leave power. This is rarely successful, most would agree.
I just go killing because splosions are purrdy. I am often successful. It's sociopathy, not political agenda, that motivates the common PvPer.
Get your damn terms straight. |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
898
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:Does honor HAVE any place in eve?
Fixed 4U
Also: No
Trust: Yes brb |

S'Way
Bitter Vets
395
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 18:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote: Does honor any place in eve?
Sure it does - people who play with it are those that the rest of EvE feeds on.
Who else would be the victims of the story everytime ?
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Marvin Narville
Evil .inc WHY so Seri0Us
11
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:Personally, having honor makes me feel good. But defining honor is often times not clear cut. Some PVPers consider in unhonorable to gank a newbie. Some like Red vs Blue feel that it is unhonorable to not fight fair within the alliance but anything goes outside of the alliance. It seems some PVPer are nothing more than terrorists and have no honor at all. I have noticed that a player Jame315 has taken on the role of a gangster and is selling protection.
I realize that there are few controls (like Concord) in eve and I like it that way. Having the opportunity to be dishonorable and choosing not to be, gives the choice more value. I do not understand why players would revel in being a rabid beast with no honor. Whenever i tried to do that, it made me fill bad.
So the question is;
Does honor any place in eve?
Did he just suggest that James315 is a dishonorable "rabid beast"?
I have a sneaking suspicion OP may have been bumped off an asteroid in a past life. |

Holy One
258
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Posted - 2012.11.09 19:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
HONOURE is alive and well. As is roleplaying.
If this sounds like you, I suggest sending penifsmash an evemail showing off your skills. 3-500 word short fiction relevant to the Angel Syndicate or just convo him in game. He really loves to roleplay with (honourable) people and his enthusiasm for nurturing new talent on the scene is legendary! Additionally, ISRAD is currently recruiting new Elitist Operatives! So why not also whack in an application in-game as well?
https://gate.eveonline.com/Corporation/ElitistOps
o7 m8s |

Bud Austrene
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.09 19:16:00 -
[73] - Quote
S'Way wrote:Bud Austrene wrote: Does honor any place in eve?
Sure it does - people who play with it are those that the rest of EvE feeds on. Who else would be the victims of the story everytime ?
I realized this right off. I was surprised when it seemed that nobody else seemed to understand this. And that a wise hunter practices conservation today in order to be able to hunt tomorrow. Of course if you kill them all today, then you can go play WOW tomorrow.
Marvin Narville wrote: Did he just suggest that James315 is a dishonorable "rabid beast"?
I have a sneaking suspicion OP may have been bumped off an asteroid in a past life.
I have not had any personal contact with James315 or his organization. What I know is what i have read on his blog site and references in other blogs, and on the forums.
And correct me if I misunderstand, he and his organization are selling protection from being harassed by himself and his organization. I fail to see the difference between that and the protection rackets that the Mafia and gangs practice to day. |

Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
260
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 20:05:00 -
[74] - Quote
There is cyno karma There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1388
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 21:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:There is cyno karma This is true ^ ... also probably jumpfreighter karma.
I don't know. I started doing a lot better in EvE when I crossed over to the dark side, I'll say that. However, I also find that honesty is the best policy when it comes to doing deals with people. Once they trust you and you trust then you can achieve bigger things together than you could on your own. So I guess it's context dependent. If you have a ship locked down and they pay you a ransom, there's really no reason I can see to actually honor it. Blow them up anyway and get the loot too. If you're doing big serious business don't ever think about screwing over your partners or nobody is going to do business with you again. Sorry... there's no clear cut answer.
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Jason13 Anzomi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.11.09 21:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Situational ethics are quite difficult and usually end up being compromised. When it's sometimes okay to have one set of ethics and other times to have an opposite ethic, results in situations where everything becomes fluid. Given a large enough reward for bending your ethics and you too can be "bought" for the right price. Once the benefit exceeds your sense of ethics, your partner will get screwed.
It should be noted that most people recognize this instinctively. If they see you screw one person, they know that you'll do the same to them eventually and thus never do fully trust you. But if they see you treat others honestly, then they make the assumption that you will do so with them also and thus will in turn trust you. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1710
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 22:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:Find a corp that fits your personal beliefs and be honorable within your corp. If they're scammers, liers and thieves, rip off the corp and laugh. If they try to teach and help newbies, find a newbie to mentor. Whatever your social group does, do it well and you have achieved an honorable game experience. Newbies!
Nothing like having newbies buzzing around in T1 frigates. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Singoth
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
129
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 23:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Honor and trust are the two commodities in EVE online that can not be bought or sold, but can only be gained through your own efforts.
They are both equally valuable in my eyes, and one can not exist without the other. Trust is gained by being honorable. Honor is gained by being trusted.
Can EVE live without players that can be trusted, or players that have honor? No, I don't think so. Those who say that, are probably solo-players. In a multiplayer game, where you interact with other players, honor and trust are the foundations of all friendly social interactions. And sometimes even in hostile interactions (ie: honoring a ransom.)
EVE without it would largely be a single-player game where other players play a minimal role in the lives of other players, because nobody can be trusted, and nobody has any honor. In other words: EVE would die.
Less yappin', more zappin'! |

Thomas Gallant
Choke-Hold
13
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 23:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Honor is a tricky thing, some might say that honor is irrealivant or silly in a game, while other may disagree, some view honor something to be kept, others as something to spend, trying to enforce honor is like trying to enforce morality, it rarely ends well.
I say it does have a place in EVE, but in different ways, for different people, and in this game, it's unpredicable at best/ |

Jeremiah Rain
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 00:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
Well..I had a 1v1 earlier(which I lost), my railcat vs a t2-fit incursus-this char is 3 days old. Not only, after beating me fair and square, not only did he not pod me, he gave me back my stuff and sent me 10 mil isk.
Now THAT'S honor o7 |
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
213
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Posted - 2012.11.10 00:43:00 -
[81] - Quote
About half of EVE players don't scam and grief people while many of them have all instruments and knowledge to do that. I guess it may be counted as some sort of honorable behavior. |

Esruc 'Sadim
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.11.10 00:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Honor does have a place in Eve. The clone bay  Insert something witty and clever here |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
974
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Posted - 2012.11.10 04:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
Bud Austrene wrote:Does honor any place in eve?
Yes it does. It's place is on the losing side.
Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |

God's Apples
The Tuskers
26
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Posted - 2012.11.10 04:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
I didn't read the OP or any replies, but I'm an honorable space ship wizard pirate warrior. |

Surfin's PlunderBunny
The Python Cartel.
3464
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 04:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:I didn't read the OP or any replies, but I'm an honorable space ship wizard pirate warrior.
If you're not also a robot your position is pointless "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
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