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mayhym
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Posted - 2005.04.14 12:13:00 -
[1]
Flame OFF
This is a serious question and please donĘt start flaming.
Can someone please explain why a person has to learn lower skills specialization before they can become specialized in Medium or even large weapons? I can understand having to learn the lower weapon classes before being able to jump into medium or large weapon skills. However to become specialized in a lower class of weapons, if you want to be specialized in medium weapon doesn't make any sense at all. This seems redundant at best, and retarded at worst. As a matter a fact having to become specialized in lower weapon classes before becoming specialized in the actual weapon class of your choice, seems to fly in the face of what specialization actually means.
So, without all the flaming that is so prevalent in these forums, can someone (preferably someone from CCP) please explain what it is I am missing? Plus, please explain how you plan to make the new people able to compete with all of use that are specialized in all weapons classes? Are you not shooting yourselves in the foot? How fun can it be for someone who just starts out, when they find out, they cannot compete or possibly deal out the same damage as there older opponents when it comes to damage output, even if they are firing the same weapons? If you are not going to change how a person becomes specialized, how are you going to address this problem in the not so distant future?
Thank you for your time.
Mayhym
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Jack Blank
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Posted - 2005.04.14 12:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jack Blank on 14/04/2005 12:17:36
Its probibly so you have to pay CCP more cash to get the neccisary skills.  old players still have to train too
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2005.04.14 12:23:00 -
[3]
I think it is an expression of later systems clkashign with newer systems.
Much like the Market and Destroyer/Battlecruiser systems, it seems more like somethign that is a new wave of designtheory that is being worked int oa game without trying to change the old ways very much.
Imagine if you will they decided that Yes, indeed, gunnery users shouldn't have to train lower level specializations for, say, battleship guns. What do they do? Tell all teh people that DID train them that they wasted a lot of time? or do they jsut not repeat that mistake with the next area of upgrades(in this case missiles).
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Niki Silver
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Posted - 2005.04.14 12:26:00 -
[4]
Agree with you about not understanding why we must specialize in small and medium before we can specialize in large.
Disagree with your second paragraph though. Veterans should have an advantage. They have invested more time, and have more advanced skill. Yes - they should own newbies.
Newbies need to realize they are newbies and accept the fact that it takes time to gain the skills needed to compete. They shouldn't be able to play for 2 months and be able to do everything someone playing for 2 years can do.
It's not CCP shooting themselves in the foot. It's called character development. Not flaming you at all. I see the point you are trying to make, and why you are making it. But it's pretty much the same with all mmo's. Veterans are stronger, as that is as it should be.
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V3ndetta
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Posted - 2005.04.14 12:27:00 -
[5]
Its simple...
Ya gotta have a basic understanding of the weapon type before you move on to the more advanced weapons.
Its like driving a grandprix raceing car with out having any lessons first, in a basic automobile...
The specialization in weapon types is like a pyrmid, you gotta have a good base skills in small weapons before moving to the next level & so on...
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2005.04.14 14:04:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: V3ndetta
Its simple...
Ya gotta have a basic understanding of the weapon type before you move on to the more advanced weapons.
Its like driving a grandprix raceing car with out having any lessons first, in a basic automobile...
The specialization in weapon types is like a pyrmid, you gotta have a good base skills in small weapons before moving to the next level & so on...
I agree, and i am a missile user i am hopeing those place hodlers get changes so you need to learn the lower specializations first.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.14 14:10:00 -
[7]
It defeats the purpose of specialising in smaller guns though. Anyone who can use Large Tech2 guns can use Medium and Small Tech2 guns just as efficiently as someone who tries to specialise in those.
Which is annoying.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.04.14 14:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 14/04/2005 14:14:21
Originally by: Niki Silver
Veterans are stronger, as that is as it should be.
Vets are stronger but if your outnumbered you are still going down no matter how uber you're skills are.
Death to the Galante |
Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.04.14 14:26:00 -
[9]
This has annoyed me from the beginning, for the reason that Elve stated.
Some people try to argue silly points like 'you need to be good with small ones to use big ones', but the simple answer is CCP wanted it to be hard to train up large specialisations, and this was the easiest way of doing it.
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Alyth
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Posted - 2005.04.14 14:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
It defeats the purpose of specialising in smaller guns though. Anyone who can use Large Tech2 guns can use Medium and Small Tech2 guns just as efficiently as someone who tries to specialise in those.
Which is annoying.
Hmmmm I dunno....definately saves time for those who want to hop in a frig or cruiser from time to time like I do. Battleships are great and all but it's damn fun to zoom around in a frigate from time to time too :)
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Sangxianc
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Posted - 2005.04.14 15:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: V3ndetta
Its simple...
Ya gotta have a basic understanding of the weapon type before you move on to the more advanced weapons.
Its like driving a grandprix raceing car with out having any lessons first, in a basic automobile...
The specialization in weapon types is like a pyrmid, you gotta have a good base skills in small weapons before moving to the next level & so on...
Exactly. You need good base skills. You don't have to spend a few years specialising in driving a Skoda before you get to specialise in a Grand Prix car, you just have to know roughly how it works.
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Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.14 16:02:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 14/04/2005 16:02:29
The thing is, it bugs me as i specialise in frigs n cruisers. I get a whooping 2% extra damage over anyone using large tech2 guns and thinks 'Hey, ill try that new cruiser!'. And i need a lvl5 skill for that.
And then you do stupid things like this.
2005.04.12 15:31:00
Training of the skill Heavy Assault Ships to level 5 has been completed
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Dai'mon
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Posted - 2005.04.14 16:22:00 -
[13]
It's annoying because there is no way to differentiate between someone who wants to specilaise in big ships and someone who wants to only fly frigs or cruisers.
I can understand why CCP would want long training times but I can't believe this is the reason as they could have just increased the multipliers on individual skills. I'd be really interested to hear from CCP why they decided on this method! 
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.04.14 16:41:00 -
[14]
Weirda think it good to require all this time personally - since the idea has less to do with real world examples, and more to do with making sure that those with the most powerful skills are not 2 months old (damned caldari). 
As for the grand prix example, a car is a car... sure you gotta be good... but Weirda would think more along the lines of operating a cessina vs a 777 jumbo jet. 99% (maybe even 100%) wouldn't be able to jump from one to the other without tons of experience in between. Most pilot come from air force or navy and have experience as fighter pilots, which could be argued is not necessarily a pre-requisite for flying a passenger plane... BUT - that experience bring a sort of 'one-ness' with the constructs that are common to all air-vehicles. 
Now - they could have gone a different route and just required more OTHER level 5 gunnery skills (the large already require a couple depending on the long vs. short range). Would seem that you would need about 4 discreet level 5 skills to achieve what you have currently for large... then there would be some complaints about that. But the big problem is like someone else said, all the people that trained the current path to get to the larges could argue that they never would have had 'med X specialization' if they didn't have to. 
Anyhow - Weirda doesn't really have a problem with the way it is now since enjoy flying all classes of ships (battleships actually the least - but specializing on their weapon anyways - for cost purposes... it just too expensive to fit out a fully named battleship) - but understand many of the issues that people who don't want to fly the smaller class ship or people like Elve that don't like the fact that 'non-cruiser/frig specialists' have those skills anyways... His experience in that class of ship would probably still outclass someone's side-product skills in specialization that they don't use... 
--
Thread Killer
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.14 16:54:00 -
[15]
The more training you have to do to use tech 2 large guns, the better. It's fine where it's at.
If you abolish the current pyramid of training you effectively cut off about a month of training.
Tech 2 large guns do not need to be any easier to train for...
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.14 17:01:00 -
[16]
True, that.
Ah well, add a second Gunnery lvl5 to the prereqs then. I just hate the current system. Hell, add BS lvl5 for all i care. But it aint gonna happen.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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