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Haratu	Posted - 2005.04.14 15:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Haratu on 14/04/2005 15:39:47 I read alot of ammarians bad mouting the apparent 'nerf' of pulse lasers. What they have obviously failed to notice is now Amarr have some really nice close combat turrets. By mixing and matching these pulse lasers with beam lasers then a good war machine can be built to combat other racial ships. Being a droner I understand this because with drones you tend to stay close to protect your drones. Personally I am happy that now I no longer need to fall back on Hybrids, I can return to my first love of lasers. I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.14 15:40:00 - [2] yeah the range is bad now on pulses but its still ok for close fights, and then there is the fact you can stay in .0 without ever needing more ammo, Yay. Death to the Galante
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.14 15:42:00 - [3] The top small pulse laser I and Named out damages my 200 Autocannon II. It also has more range benifits, unlimited ammo, as well able to switch between damage types in the split of a second. People who complain are morons. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.14 15:47:00 - [4] I hate to bring this up, but it seems people don't often realise it. Closerange combat does not only have disadvantages. It's an advantage too. You cant be hit. Opposed to the midrange guns, because at 20-30k a Tempest with 1400m will hit another BS fine. If it went my way, up Pulse's tracking and give em 5km optimal. But, alas, seems the Devs didnt agree. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
SLIM	Posted - 2005.04.14 16:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Haratu Edited by: Haratu on 14/04/2005 15:39:47 I read alot of ammarians bad mouting the apparent 'nerf' of pulse lasers. What they have obviously failed to notice is now Amarr have some really nice close combat turrets. By mixing and matching these pulse lasers with beam lasers then a good war machine can be built to combat other racial ships. Being a droner I understand this because with drones you tend to stay close to protect your drones. Personally I am happy that now I no longer need to fall back on Hybrids, I can return to my first love of lasers. Um, no. There was no benefit to lasers in this latest patch. Granted, megapulse needed the nerf, so that was ok. But still, tracking hasn't changed, so the guns aren't any better. ---------------------------
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:17:00 - [6] Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Zachios Primos	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:26:00 - [7] Originally by: Fuse Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. poor stain /emote points and laughs ____________________
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Fuse Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. So basically now they are the medium range weapons they are supposed to be they are junk? Tell me what part of 8km less optimal makes them junk? Which part of being able to do slightly less than blaster damage at 30km makes them junk? Which part of being able to still shred a ship in 15 seconds makes them useless.....
F'nog	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:37:00 - [9] Have you actually tried using them Fuse, or are you just *****ing out of principle? I'm just as deadly with my megapulse as I was before. I've had to adapt and fit some different crystals, because it's harder to get within range to use MF, but my enemies still die just as quickly. Your moaning is getting old. They lost a bit of range. Boohoo. Deal with it and try engaging that stuff between your ears, and you'll see they're just as deadly as before. You may not be able to kill stuff from 60k, but SFW?
Rivek	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:38:00 - [10] With regards to large pulse lasers specifically, yes they were nerfed, no they are not better in any way, yes it was justified and in fact desperately needed. If you think they are now worse than other short range guns you are out of your flippin mind, they still are well ahead of large blasters in usability, versatility, damage types, and ammount of damage (on a geddon). Now they simply dont have their former ridiculous range... rather just very good range. ---------------------------------------------- BS Weapon Comparison TunDraGon.com

Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Fuse Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. So basically now they are the medium range weapons they are supposed to be they are junk? Tell me what part of 8km less optimal makes them junk? Which part of being able to do slightly less than blaster damage at 30km makes them junk? Which part of being able to still shred a ship in 15 seconds makes them useless..... If your opponent is above 30 the weapon is total junk you may as well not use it. It is NOT the same weapon I trained for. I wish CCP would stop catering to people who cry "nerf this please". This is like having a medium sword that works good and the next day you wake up with a short sword that works ok... making it GARBAGE for what I trained to use it for. Can I kill the same opponent with a short sword? Yes I can but not before he puts a bunch of ranged attacks into me. I am done here complaining does NOT do anything. I just request that CCP give us the option to port our skills in to beam lasers if I don't get that it will just make me less interested in the game. Either way I am DONE discussing this. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:03:00 - [12] If your opponent is above 30 the weapon is total junk you may as well not use it. It is NOT the same weapon I trained for. I wish CCP would stop catering to people who cry "nerf this please". This is like having a medium sword that works good and the next day you wake up with a short sword that works ok... making it GARBAGE for what I trained to use it for. Can I kill the same opponent with a short sword? Yes I can but not before he puts a bunch of ranged attacks into me. I am done here complaining does NOT do anything. I just request that CCP give us the option to port our skills in to beam lasers if I don't get that it will just make me less interested in the game. Either way I am DONE discussing this. So now you are in the same boat as the other specialised short rangers? You don't see auto user's whining about it....blaster users maybe because they often have to MWD into range. Pulse users don't even have THAT stigma. Face it, it's still a damn fine and usable weapon.....you have the tracking, rate of fire and damage of blasters and autos coupled with the range of some of the rails, I fail to see your problem.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Fuse Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Fuse Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. So basically now they are the medium range weapons they are supposed to be they are junk? Tell me what part of 8km less optimal makes them junk? Which part of being able to do slightly less than blaster damage at 30km makes them junk? Which part of being able to still shred a ship in 15 seconds makes them useless..... If your opponent is above 30 the weapon is total junk you may as well not use it. It is NOT the same weapon I trained for. I wish CCP would stop catering to people who cry "nerf this please". This is like having a medium sword that works good and the next day you wake up with a short sword that works ok... making it GARBAGE for what I trained to use it for. Can I kill the same opponent with a short sword? Yes I can but not before he puts a bunch of ranged attacks into me. I am done here complaining does NOT do anything. I just request that CCP give us the option to port our skills in to beam lasers if I don't get that it will just make me less interested in the game. Either way I am DONE discussing this. Oh and you didn't see a nerf coming to a gun that could do blaster damage at sick ranges coming? Oh and you're exxagerating so badly it's not even funny. 50% less effective now. Then guess what for a while you've been using a gun that twice as effective as it should be. Be happy, that's not something everyone can say. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
KompleX	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:16:00 - [14] Originally by: Fuse Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. Laughable. Probably the dummest thing I've ever seen on the forums, EVER!
Mac Knife	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:17:00 - [15] "ohnoes!! help mummy they nerfed my megapulse lasers. i now cant do insane dmg at what range i want, help me help me ahhhhh i cant adapt like everyone else". lol just shut the whining, try using blasters or dual 425mms autos and then see whatcha think, amarr have if lucky, all that they did was reduce the range abit "OMG" such a downside u have to get in that bit closer to do your old uber insane dmg. Stop your whining and go change to beams. you don't see gallente whining that their blasters dont hit from 60kms as they will just use 425mms. If u want long range use beams if u want close range use pulse, simple as that.
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Alyth So now you are in the same boat as the other specialised short rangers? You don't see auto user's whining about it....blaster users maybe because they often have to MWD into range. Pulse users don't even have THAT stigma. Face it, it's still a damn fine and usable weapon.....you have the tracking, rate of fire and damage of blasters and autos coupled with the range of some of the rails, I fail to see your problem. Great!! I trained for a MEDIUM not a short ranged weapon. It is junk and I don't care it is junk all I am angry about is spending a good 1.5 months of training on it and not being able to use it the way it was suppose to be used. Even the description says it is a medium ranged weapon and it is no longer that you admit that here at least. You just have to get the last word in so you can convince your self this does not suck for specialized pulse laser people. There is no point in talking to you at all about it. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Hydroponica	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:20:00 - [17] Projectiles 4TW ***********************************
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Fuse Originally by: Alyth So now you are in the same boat as the other specialised short rangers? You don't see auto user's whining about it....blaster users maybe because they often have to MWD into range. Pulse users don't even have THAT stigma. Face it, it's still a damn fine and usable weapon.....you have the tracking, rate of fire and damage of blasters and autos coupled with the range of some of the rails, I fail to see your problem. Great!! I trained for a MEDIUM not a short ranged weapon. It is junk and I don't care it is junk all I am angry about is spending a good 1.5 months of training on it and not being able to use it the way it was suppose to be used. Even the description says it is a medium ranged weapon and it is no longer that you admit that here at least. You just have to get the last word in so you can convince your self this does not suck for specialized pulse laser people. There is no point in talking to you at all about it. 30km is short range now? Guess I missed my blaster range upgrades, cause I would have sworn I still have a 2.5km optimal ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
SirSpectre	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:25:00 - [19] The only thing about the megapulse nerf that affected me is ratting sanshas. The 7 megapulse setup was perfect for killing them. Now you have to use UV crystals which arent as good so i takes a tad longer to kill, OK whatever. BUT If I run across a Vizan or a Chelms officer I cant take it solo anymore. So then Ive been experimenting with alternate ratting setups on my apoc, such as tech II medium beams, megabeams, 1400mm howitzers, 425mm rails, but nothing worked as well as those megapulse. But for PvP megapulse still rule the game
Meehan	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:30:00 - [20] From what I can tell, pulse lasers are still very powerful... not that I'd ever train another turret type regardless.

Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:42:00 - [21] Originally by: KompleX Originally by: Fuse Take your garbage psychology and shove it. Pulse lasers are junk now. It was 50% nerf from the starting to my training to the end of it. Now I'm specialized in a stupid weapon that no one in their right minds will use. This topic is an oxymoron. Laughable. Probably the dummest thing I've ever seen on the forums, EVER! This is another post from another person. -------------------snip------------------------- DarkZaion Interstellar eXodus Stain Empire Posted - 2005.04.14 15:06:00 - Quote today i did a test i jumped on my geddon fitted with 8 heat sink t2 + mega pulse 1 + fitted with radio (lvl 4 large laser skill, shparpshooter lvl 3, surgical lvl3) 1st 37km range WTF! 2nd it only did ~50 damge to a unharden apoc!!!! WTF AT 20KM i was like u sure u dont have harderns on he goes NO !! AMARR IS WAY TOO OVER NERF F$%@ING SUCKSEvil or Very Mad -------------------snip------------------------- It is spelled dumbest. As in you are the dumbest troll I have ever seen on these forums. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Nicholai Pestot	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Fuse Great!! I trained for a MEDIUM not a short ranged weapon. Medium range for battleships would be between 10km and 60km right? It would seem battleship megapulses still perform within this area. Even the small Pulse lasers operate between 2km and 6km, which is mid-range for frigates. Originally by: Fuse It would seem that You just have to get the last word in so you can convince your self this does not suck for specialized pulse laser people It is correct that this has made things harder for the specialised Laser people..but this was needed.Pulse lasers were clearly far better then any other weapon before the patch.Boosting all the other weapons would have been far more difficult and unpredictable.It may be true that things have gone too far with the smaller pulse lasers.Im sure eventual testing will discover this. Originally by: fuse There is no point in talking to you at all about it. As long as you can keep your cool there is always a point in talking. Every post you make that logicaly and methodicaly backs up your point re-inforces your argument.Every rant and personal insult degrades it. Im not saying i agree with you, im just staying dont give up, and keep a level head I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:44:00 - [23] Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:00:00 - [24] Edited by: Julien Derida on 14/04/2005 22:02:10 That is a bull**** graph and always has been. Noone uses long-range ammo on blasters or ACs because they are falloff dominated weapons. The reverse is true of pulse lasers. They are optimal dominated weapons and hence benefit the most from long-range ammo. They also take a bigger hit to range from short-range ammo. Edit: Don't get me wrong. Megapulse needed nerfing hard. That graph just irritates me because it is incredibly misleading. The fact that it came from a dev makes it even worse. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 14/04/2005 22:02:10 That is a bull**** graph and always has been. Noone uses long-range ammo on blasters or ACs because they are falloff dominated weapons. The reverse is true of pulse lasers. They are optimal dominated weapons and hence benefit the most from long-range ammo. They also take a bigger hit to range from short-range ammo. Edit: Don't get me wrong. Megapulse needed nerfing hard. That graph just irritates me because it is incredibly misleading. The fact that it came from a dev makes it even worse. The point was that Radio was supposed to be the long range low damage crystals and they just werent performing as such.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:04:00 - [26] The thing totally wrong with that graph is they use the ONLY Amarr ship bar the HACs that get an Optimal Range bonus. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:08:00 - [27] Edited by: Julien Derida on 14/04/2005 22:11:07 Yup, radio crystals needed reducing a few points in damage. No disagreements there. My beef is that the graph makes pulse lasers look far better than they are by presenting a situation that amplifies their best characteristic and supresses the two others guns strengths. People then just glance at it and start shouting "OMG OMG overpowered" without thinking about what the graph is actually showing. This is perfectly evidenced by Gierling spamming both threads with these graphs and thinking they present some kind of rationale for a nerf in themselves. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:13:00 - [28] Ok let me put it in other words, you were doing blaster damage, at railgun range.... and you think this didn't require a severe nerf? Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:15:00 - [29] That graph is bunk. Show me the damage with the natural 2k falloff and it will look a LOT different. Everyone new Megapulse were overpowered. Ironically, this patch really didn't effect them much. Now people will be ganking from 50km instead of 60. Maybe using UV instead of multi. T2 Megas still have a 19km optimal multi's. Light matches! Prepare 4 BBQ!!11!! It's the small pulse lasers that are crap now. Utter rubbish. Not enough tracking to be close range weapons, not enough midslots to mount a webber. 1 midslot 4tw! Ah yes, the fancy cherry on top is that small Beams use 30% more cpu and grid than thier analogues. Even the Retribution (amarr AF with largest powergrid) can't fit em. Where does that leave the destroyers, tech 1 frigates and inties? In the hanger. That's all thier good for now. Nyxus
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:22:00 - [30] These graphs are without ship bonuses. Also they have falloff represented, It is the downward slope. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.



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