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Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
   |
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Many remember the old doomsday as a lack inducing, frame rate reducing mechanic that scaled horrifically with the number of Titans in the field was neither fair or balanced. To some extent I agree... However there was a point in between Enslaver detonating the first DD and there being +20 on the grid at any one time, which for me, was a golden age of fleet warfare.
The Golden Age(?)
Interdictors tailor made to withstand a DD in a world with no HIC's. Dual DD tanked Rokhs in the age were we still sniped. Thousands of drones and fighters removed at an instant in a universe that hadn't heard of fighter bombers.
What the Old DD's did for a brief time before extreme proliferation, was create a special environment, with a certain set of rules and tactics that players learned, planned for and adapted to.
The... "Press F1 for boomheadshot" mechanic that we currently have, which still scaled poorly, sourly lacks these things and seems to be there only to placate the ever increasing number of players and allainces who invested (hugely) with both ISK, SP and the obligatory titan alt. But with several titans on the field, the HIC to successfully tackle a titan ratio goes out of control. It also means dreads become nearly pointless, coffins. Sensor boosted titans have also been known to hot drop on small gangs fortehlols.
Bringing them back(?)
The old DD's should return. With modifications that include a GLOBAL system-wide cool down period between 60-30 minutes. This would mean that only one Doomsday activation from any titan could be fired per hour, in the same system.
This would mean that the titan pilots on the defenders side, WOULD NOW HAVE DECISIONS TO MAKE (AKA GAME PLAY) on how and when to use there superweapon, EG, do it early before the attackers get their DD's on the field, removing light support... Or wait till super-carriers with fighterbombers are going hammer-and tongs on your caps before instantly removing several hundred thousand DPS worth of drones, fighters and light support...
In addition, a Titan should need to refuel before firing again, should be immobile for half the duration of the cool down with turrets and missiles that track half as well as they do now. This still gives a role for multiple titans on the field, but to a much reduced extent than current.
But my Pubbies and there t1 cruisers and interceptors can't take part in fleets anymore
LOL
But seriously, yes they can. Just bring spares - their cheap and replicable and carriers can usually bring dozens of them - given that carriers no longer insta-explode, this is probably more viable than ever. In-addition, get them into Interdictors, teach them how to DD tank and they'll probably end up having a lot fun knowing that Titans and Super-Carriers (due to now cancelling each other out) are no longer the apex of fleet warfare and can be countered.
But what about lags and stuff?
What, the ability to instantly remove hundreds of fighters and drones wouldn't be a good thing for lag? Seriously though, this would have to be examined, but I don't think it would be as bad now, as it was, especially with re-enforced nodes and time dilation.
Obviously, Supercarriers should be prevented from carrying normal drones, and I'm sure there's a whole heap of other changes to 0.0 that need to be implemented on the whole. But to many, the deathray is an inferior game design mechanic that encourages no real game play and doesn't really fit with any coherent plan for what 0.0 fleet warfare should be.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
121
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
No.
Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
121
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
And why do you care, anyways, you're in AHARM--all you have to do is tracking disrupt your own ships so they have 250km range and full damage with every gun. Go away.
Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:And why do you care, anyways, you're in AHARM--all you have to do is tracking disrupt your own ships so they have 250km range and full damage with every gun. Go away.
Read the OP.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Jack bubu
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I read your op and its still a dumb idea.
The goons right, go exploit in WH's noone cares for your opinion |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
654
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
AoE doomsdays are as dumb an idea as supercapital ships themselves. Death2allsupercaps. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:I read your op and its still a dumb idea.
The goons right, go exploit in WH's noone cares for your opinion
Feel free to provide additional insight. Interested to hear why you believe the current DD's are a great idea.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
H3llHound
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Go and look on SiSi at the changes CCP made to the DDs |
Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Because clearly the solution to scap blobs is to obliterate sub caps with a single key stroke?
-1 internets for you sir. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
H3llHound wrote:Go and look on SiSi at the changes CCP made to the DDs
Compared to what I've suggested, game play wise there still inferior. Instead of "What ship should I remove from space", it's "which carrier I should remove from space".
It's just a reactionary modification with no real consideration into the wider picture of fleet warfare.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
adopt
The Deathwatch Legion
Apex United
20
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
nope.jpg
Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Indeterminacy wrote:Because clearly the solution to scap blobs is to obliterate sub caps with a single key stroke?
-1 internets for you sir.
Did you not read the OP? Or do you believe that tanking 50k worth of damage per hour is difficult in anything larger than an interdictor?
-1 internets to you sir.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
H3llHound
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:H3llHound wrote:Go and look on SiSi at the changes CCP made to the DDs Compared to what I've suggested, game play wise there still inferior. Instead of "What ship should I remove from space", it's "which carrier I should remove from space". It's just a reactionary modification with no real consideration into the wider picture of fleet warfare.
Then you dont understand how it works now. Supers arent always playing against capitals. They get dropped on subcap fleets and then the primaries are bonusships>logi for the DDs. Taking a big chunk out of an enemy subcaps damage resists is worth alot. DDs shouldnt be used against subcaps neither in direct nor AOE fire.
|
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Indeterminacy wrote:Because clearly the solution to scap blobs is to obliterate sub caps with a single key stroke?
-1 internets for you sir.
Well that's old DD as we knew it.
The one mentioned, works differently with strings attached. Or do you really think that battle over an system is over once the initial fleet support dont count logistics and battleships are destroyed ? What about reinforcement, what about GTFO with support now ..and come back after it goes in waste .
There is plenty to say why it could work. However as i am just mere soldier and only sub-capital pilot my insight is not worth the thought.
It could bring more to large fleet engagement and give role to carriers, super carriers other then come in deploy drones and RR each other. As been said carying those ships which would be so unlucky to not hear see whats coming and stay on grid.
I read it as an non involved party in super carrier crowd vs blob crowd vs super carrier blob crowd.
Altho : AoE but non instant damage .. like first wave kills all drones second wave kills all frigs third wave kills all cruisers fourth wave heavily damage or kill all battlecruisers fifth wave slightly damage battleships, which would be without shield after fourth wave obviously.
Well just thinking. Maybe its complete and ubber idiocy. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
H3llHound wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:H3llHound wrote:Go and look on SiSi at the changes CCP made to the DDs Compared to what I've suggested, game play wise there still inferior. Instead of "What ship should I remove from space", it's "which carrier I should remove from space". It's just a reactionary modification with no real consideration into the wider picture of fleet warfare. Then you dont understand how it works now. Supers arent always playing against capitals. They get dropped on subcap fleets and then the primaries are bonusships>logi for the DDs. Taking a big chunk out of an enemy subcaps damage resists is worth alot. DDs shouldnt be used against subcaps neither in direct nor AOE fire.
And they wouldn't in this implementation. Guardians, AHACs and T3's can tank more than the maximum AOE in this instance because there would be a limit on how many DD's can be fired in the system per hour. The main difference is now how the DD's now become great at dealing with fighters, bombers and drones and usage on the part of the titan pilot now requires a bit more decision making.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:AoE doomsdays are as dumb an idea as supercapital ships themselves. Death2allsupercaps.
Idiocy at it's finest.
As for the idea...the AoE Doomsday was great back when there were very few Titans available. Now...it just shouldn't exist. Personally...Titans need an overhaul. A major one. As in make them rediculously hard to make...almost to the point of impossible. That would not resolve the issue of the current flood of Titans in the game that need to be dealt with.
Maybe Titans should never log out. The pilot goes to sleep when the account is exited but the Titan stays right where it is. That will get people into Nullsec and start some wars. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 15:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:AoE doomsdays are as dumb an idea as supercapital ships themselves. Death2allsupercaps.
You can have super capitals or any big awesome cool ship, as long as there was a coherent plan in how the worked in a certain ecosystem.
At the moment, we're just wildly swinging from boost to nerf, without really taking the time to figure this out.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Spurty
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
First off the exploit to this I'd for the defender to DD in system first and no where near friendlier
so that part has to be cut leaving just this as the result:
In more than one alliance blued with another, each independent of the other can bring enough titans to DD an entire cap fleet WHENEVER regardless of your spool up / cool down periods
Think again, but think 50+ of these on one side going off without pause ... Continually because your key inhibitor is a lame duck.
Not trolling you for putting it out here. Just some if us have walked this line of thinking before and spotted the gotcha before you
----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Spurty wrote:First off the exploit to this I'd for the defender to DD in system first and no where near friendlier
so that part has to be cut leaving just this as the result:
In more than one alliance blued with another, each independent of the other can bring enough titans to DD an entire cap fleet WHENEVER regardless of your spool up / cool down periods
Think again, but think 50+ of these on one side going off without pause ... Continually because your key inhibitor is a lame duck.
Not trolling you for putting it out here. Just some if us have walked this line of thinking before and spotted the gotcha before you
I see from where you coming. The only response would mean that one part could block whole system with its DD two per hour and other will have non. Still not an big deal or maybe it is... Dont know .. Considering perfect timing etc. would require perfectly predicable combat under predicable circumstances.
|
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spurty wrote:First off the exploit to this I'd for the defender to DD in system first and no where near friendlier
so that part has to be cut leaving just this as the result:
In more than one alliance blued with another, each independent of the other can bring enough titans to DD an entire cap fleet WHENEVER regardless of your spool up / cool down periods
Think again, but think 50+ of these on one side going off without pause ... Continually because your key inhibitor is a lame duck.
Not trolling you for putting it out here. Just some if us have walked this line of thinking before and spotted the gotcha before you
For **** sake, did no one read the OP?
One DD activation per system, per hour, from any titan.
Yes, you could DD in a safespot denying someone else the ability to DD for an hour... But you'll be suck, in a safespot unable to cloak, for at least 15 minutes... SO...
Yes, you could use you DD to take out random roaming gangs of battlecruisers and frigs I suppose... But I'm sure it wouldn't be long before Titan Baiting turned into a sport.
Why? Because it ulters the environment and the tactics needed to be successful in that environment, and it *fits* in better with fleetwarfare better than the current implementation or the last.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
377
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:Many remember the old doomsday as a lack inducing, frame rate reducing mechanic that scaled horrifically with the number of Titans in the field was neither fair or balanced. To some extent I agree... However there was a point in between Enslaver detonating the first DD and there being +20 on the grid at any one time, which for me, was a golden age of fleet warfare. The Golden Age(?)Interdictors tailor made to withstand a DD in a world with no HIC's. Dual DD tanked Rokhs in the age were we still sniped. Thousands of drones and fighters removed at an instant in a universe that hadn't heard of fighter bombers. What the Old DD's did for a brief time before extreme proliferation, was create a special environment, with a certain set of rules and tactics that players learned, planned for and adapted to. The... "Press F1 for boomheadshot" mechanic that we currently have, which still scaled poorly, sourly lacks these things and seems to be there only to placate the ever increasing number of players and allainces who invested (hugely) with both ISK, SP and the obligatory titan alt. But with several titans on the field, the HIC to successfully tackle a titan ratio goes out of control. It also means dreads become nearly pointless, coffins. Sensor boosted titans have also been known to hot drop on small gangs fortehlols. Bringing them back(?)
Apparently you're more nostalgic for the days of cloaked-at-600km titans wiping out roaming gangs on jump in than I am, but for exactly that reason - and there are far more titans in game now than there were in 2009 - I absolutely oppose your suggestion. Making 70,000 EHP the operating minimum to fly in 0.0 simply wipes out far too much diversity. No HACs, no frigates, no cruisers (maybe baitmallers, I don't know). Sorry, but that's highly unattractive to me. The old DD was a bad game device, and it didn't even stop lag - if anything it provoked lag, because you needed even more people. There were far more lagfests then than there are now.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
96
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:Many remember the old doomsday as a lack inducing, frame rate reducing mechanic that scaled horrifically with the number of Titans in the field was neither fair or balanced. To some extent I agree... However there was a point in between Enslaver detonating the first DD and there being +20 on the grid at any one time, which for me, was a golden age of fleet warfare. The Golden Age(?)Interdictors tailor made to withstand a DD in a world with no HIC's. Dual DD tanked Rokhs in the age were we still sniped. Thousands of drones and fighters removed at an instant in a universe that hadn't heard of fighter bombers. What the Old DD's did for a brief time before extreme proliferation, was create a special environment, with a certain set of rules and tactics that players learned, planned for and adapted to. The... "Press F1 for boomheadshot" mechanic that we currently have, which still scaled poorly, sourly lacks these things and seems to be there only to placate the ever increasing number of players and allainces who invested (hugely) with both ISK, SP and the obligatory titan alt. But with several titans on the field, the HIC to successfully tackle a titan ratio goes out of control. It also means dreads become nearly pointless, coffins. Sensor boosted titans have also been known to hot drop on small gangs fortehlols. Bringing them back(?) Apparently you're more nostalgic for the days of cloaked-at-600km titans wiping out roaming gangs on jump in than I am, but for exactly that reason - and there are far more titans in game now than there were in 2009 - I absolutely oppose your suggestion. Making 70,000 EHP the operating minimum to fly in 0.0 simply wipes out far too much diversity. No HACs, no frigates, no cruisers (maybe baitmallers, I don't know). Sorry, but that's highly unattractive to me. The old DD was a bad game device, and it didn't even stop lag - if anything it provoked lag, because you needed even more people. There were far more lagfests then than there are now.
Wasn't the old DD range 250km? And if you can't make HAC, let alone an interdictor or Battlecruiser withstand 70k EHP then your probably doing it wrong. Yes, there is a risk you may be DD'ed, but the risk for the Titan pilot outside of a cyno-jammed has significantly risen in magnitude.
DD's only really became a problem when half a dozen titans activated DD's almost continuously and as for lag, I think things have improved server side, for them to be used in this way to be acceptable performance wise..
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Do you realize how dumb reintroducing AoE doomsdays are?
With the proliferation of Titans in game, this would basically implement a "you must be this tall to enter a roaming gang" as a any bored titan pilot will simply hotdrop any small roaming gang. Limiting game-play is not a good thing.
AoE Doomsdays are dumb, you are dumb for suggesting bringing them back. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
96
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 16:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Do you realize how dumb reintroducing AoE doomsdays are?
With the proliferation of Titans in game, this would basically implement a "you must be this tall to enter a roaming gang" as a any bored titan pilot will simply hotdrop any small roaming gang. Limiting game-play is not a good thing.
AoE Doomsdays are dumb, you are dumb for suggesting bringing them back.
I don't think you understand just how much more risk DD'ing a random roaming gang, this new scenario would create. But then again I should have really spelled out everything in big bolded, capital letters, in the way I Goons know and love.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 17:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
A casual stroll through the asylum shows that faith proves nothing. |
Spurty
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 21:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Op lives in a day dream world where people roam with solo titans.
Golden age indeed, before 50+ titans were available to one side.
Dumb idea and years out of date with reality
----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
96
|
Posted - 2011.10.03 21:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Op lives in a day dream world where people roam with solo titans.
Golden age indeed, before 50+ titans were available to one side.
Dumb idea and years out of date with reality
Spurty demonstrating the reading comprehension of posters is at an all time low... Not that that reply makes any sense.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado.
Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
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