| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
99
   |
Posted - 2012.11.12 17:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Thom Daranta wrote:Anslo wrote:Being Gallente means being stared down by opposition to you, being out numbered 10:1 and saying, "**** the odds" because you believe with all your heart and soul that you're doing the right thing. Embrace the inner action star? I must admit, we pod pilots are very well equipped for that. Although I'm not by nature a warrior, I've done it myself, though not necessarily to good results. Read the fine print, everyone. When the marketing material says the drone "is equal to any frigate" they obviously aren't talking about assault ships commanded by other capsuleers. They don't "Even the odds in any circumstances." Sigh. I wasn't really going for the action star thing but hey, if it works for you haha! I was more speaking to our nature as a people to defend the freedom of others'. I'm having my name spat on, having threats sent to my friends, and other various things because I decided to side with some miners and their crews being harassed by some people in stabbers. But I really don't care what they say to me. Helping those miners, to me, is worth it. That's more of what I'm referring to. Absolute opposition to your actions, bother verbally and with a gun, can be demoralizing. But, we're Gallentean. This is the kinda stuff we do yeah?
He speaks of the "freedom" to flood the market with cheap isotopes while ignoring regional taxation. Another demonstration of the Gallente scum's talent to spin the truth into something to make them feel noble and special.
|
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
Sicarius Draconis
572
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
I am noble and special I don't need an excuse to feel that way.
Wish I could relay sarcarsm clearly over text. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
813
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
I find this topic trite on these forums... but I'll bite, without the famous 'pithy one liners'.
I remember Malkalen, 'Galaxy Pig'. I remember the tears on my face that day, and I remember it every day I go to work for the dream of Otro Gariushi. I remember that his dream was to turn away from the blind hatred of Gallenteans so touted by Tibus Heth. Your words attack and insult, and bring disrespect to the very souls of Malkalen you attempt so poorly to honor and remember.
You make yourself a fool, crying "Remember Malkalen" from the rooftops while wholly disregarding the real people of Ishukone who gave their lives in the name of a cause you scarcely seem to comprehend. |
Gussarde en Welle
Fruidian Logic
The Volition Cult
60
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:
An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.
Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
627
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gussarde en Welle wrote:Scherezad wrote:
An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.
Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.
Nope. Lots of reasonable people hold this belief. |
Gussarde en Welle
Fruidian Logic
The Volition Cult
60
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Gussarde en Welle wrote:Scherezad wrote:
An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.
Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking. Nope. Lots of reasonable people hold this belief.
Tiberious, you are a TSF member. I have serious doubts that you and I can agree on the definition of a "reasonable person;" nearly no one in the galaxy seemed to think that Sansha Kuvakei was "reasonable."
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
627
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gussarde en Welle wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Gussarde en Welle wrote:Scherezad wrote:
An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.
Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking. Nope. Lots of reasonable people hold this belief. Tiberious, you are a TSF member. I have serious doubts that you and I can agree on the definition of a "reasonable person;" nearly no one in the galaxy seemed to think that Sansha Kuvakei was "reasonable."
"Is" reasonable, for one. Sansha Kuvakei is still around.
Second, I am not speaking as to my own personal belief here, only that many reasonable people hold this belief. The entire advertising industry, for instance, is based on the ability to understand a person better than they understand themselves. Same goes for psychoanalysis, same goes for any statistical entity.
Emotion and gut feeling, and non-objective self analysis are not winning tools in the game of life. Groups which run models to predict behavior of groups, and hence the behavior of individuals within that group, overwhelmingly hold advantage over those (few) groups which shrug and say, simply, that human beings are far too complicated to understand. |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
And how did Otro's "dream" turn out for him? Oh, that's right, he was vaporized by Gallente treachery. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
233
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gussarde en Welle wrote:Scherezad wrote:
An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.
Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.
I doubt this very much, but can't speak for foreign science methodologies. All I can say is that external observers with formal training have been shown to be able to construct better behavioural models of a subject than the subject themselves. As is popularly said, people are incapable of being objective, and to the first order, that is true. Few individuals undertake the mental training needed to gain an objective viewpoint on themselves.
Mister Daranta, I will reply to your post shortly; it's a lot of text and it takes me a long time to understand what is being said. I will reply as soon as I am able. Sorry for the delay! |
Pieter Tuulinen
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:And how did Otro's "dream" turn out for him? Oh, that's right, he was vaporized by Gallente treachery.
Otro Gariushi was a patriot and a true son of the State. I don't think you're doing his memory justice by suggesting his inability to predict the insanity of a single man was down to naivety. |
|
|
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction
The Unforgiven Alliance
546
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:And how did Otro's "dream" turn out for him? Oh, that's right, he was vaporized by Gallente treachery. Otro Gariushi was a patriot and a true son of the State. I don't think you're doing his memory justice by suggesting his inability to predict the insanity of a single man was down to naivety.
This. I might not like Caldari nutters like Galaxy here, but Otro was a great man. He worked hard to try to forge some kind of peace. As a Gallentean, and hell even as a human, I'm ashamed of the acts Alexander Noir perpetrated against the Caldari at Malkalen. He was a nut job, acting on his own.
Like Noir, the Gallenteans and Caldari have nut jobs on both sides, but that doesn't mean the whole of each Empire has the same ideals. Personally, I'd love if both sides' extreme nationalists, both Caldari and Gallente, would just stop the hateful speech against each other, and just shake hands. A Caldari-Gallente alliance could be an unstoppable thing. Sadly though, that's not the way things are.
|
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
234
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 19:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:And how did Otro's "dream" turn out for him? Oh, that's right, he was vaporized by Gallente treachery.
Let us honour our ancestors for the guidance they grace us with, the wisdom that has descended to us, and their heritage which we carry into a brighter future. Even if you disagree with his goals, the guidance he provided to, and continues to provide, our State endures and is well worth cherishing. |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Truth. Otro was a great man, but just because he's dead doesn't mean I'm afraid to call him naive. He was naive to trust the Federation, just like you're naive if you think Malkalen was the act of one man. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
209
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Anslo wrote:As a Gallentean, and hell even as a human, I'm ashamed of the acts Alexander Noir perpetrated against the Caldari at Malkalen. He was a nut job, acting on his own.
I still don't buy that it really was Noir, and I like to think I'm not a man prone to conspiracy theory.
A man spends a one-hundred-and-sixty year lifetime working to promote peace, wins the Aidonis prize for his efforts, builds a top-quality reputation on both sides, and then just as his life's work is about to, if not be accomplished then certainly see a big step forward, throws it all away in a self-destructive instant of insanity that destroys that whole century of work? Not to mention his own reputation and memory?
This man being a capsuleer with clone access. Clones which could be hijacked.
I know that the burden of proof is on me with this, but I just can't bring myself to believe that Noir was really piloting that supercarrier. The idea that he was just raises far, FAR too many questions. I don't believe that a man with that vicious a grudge in his heart could work contrary it for as long as Noir did. I don't believe that such reckless hatred is level-headed enough to bide its time like that, especially not without a foreseen opportunity.
If he really was that vindictive, then that century of peace work constituted undermining his own interests with no clear objective. He simply could not have foreseen that one day he would be called upon to fly a Nyx to Malkalen. Without such foreknowledge, there is simply no way he would have worked against his own core beliefs for so long. He achieved tangible results! He wasn't just paying lip service to the peace process, he was to a large degree responsible for there being a peace process at all!
No. Call me crazy, but I just don't see how it could possibly have really been Alexander Noir in that capsule. And I think it's rather telling that the Federation Navy and the FIO have never released any of the results of the investigation they surely performed after the Malkalen Incident.
I've got no stake in this. I never knew the man personally. Hell, that Nyx struck a blow to my home Corporation and killed the CEO whose philosophy and work have done a lot to guide my own political opinions. I have as much reason as anybody to hate the aitikusipaa who killed Otro Gariushi.
But I pride myself on being a rational man who thinks before he hates, and I am forced to conclude that the person responsible was not Alexander Noir.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
291
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
The OP sounds strangely like Diana Kim. Coincidence?
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction
The Unforgiven Alliance
547
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:
But I pride myself on being a rational man who thinks before he hates, and I am forced to conclude that the person responsible was not Alexander Noir.
Then who do you think it was? Some Jove? Black Ops? Who the hell could ever hack a Nyx?
And I swear if I hear anything about that Broker myth...
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
211
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Then who do you think it was? Some Jove? Black Ops? Who the hell could ever hack a Nyx?
And I swear if I hear anything about that Broker myth...
I don't claim to know.
All I'm saying is that the holes in the... shall we call it the "default" theory that Noir did it make the default theory too implausible for me to accept.
See, if he was sane then he'd have understood that the peace work he was doing was to the greater good for the Federation too, and would leave a better legacy and memory of his life for him himself, so he'd never have done it.
But if he was insane then he wouldn't have displayed such patience and rationality throughout his long life prior to that point.
Those being the only options, we have to explore the alternative consideration that it wasn't Noir at all. An explanation which immediately answers a great many otherwise unanswerable mysteries, and whatever new questions it opens are merely questions of technique rather than motive.
EDIT
but, if you really want speculation, you don't have to hack the Nyx. You just have to hack the pilot. Clonejacking and Sansha's brainstem override nanites are two examples that spring to mind, and both are very difficult to detect.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
101
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
I reluctantly agree with Anslo, while you raise interesting questions, I've never heard of a clone being hijacked. Also, this kind of talk usually precedes outlandish conspiracy theories like that of "the broker" he mentioned. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction
The Unforgiven Alliance
547
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Anslo wrote:Then who do you think it was? Some Jove? Black Ops? Who the hell could ever hack a Nyx?
And I swear if I hear anything about that Broker myth... I don't claim to know. All I'm saying is that the holes in the... shall we call it the " default" theory that Noir did it make the default theory too implausible for me to accept. See, if he was sane then he'd have understood that the peace work he was doing was to the greater good for the Federation too, and would leave a better legacy and memory of his life for him himself, so he'd never have done it. But if he was insane then he wouldn't have displayed such patience and rationality throughout his long life prior to that point. Those being the only options, we have to explore the alternative consideration that it wasn't Noir at all. An explanation which immediately answers a great many otherwise unanswerable mysteries, and whatever new questions it opens are merely questions of technique rather than motive.
Alright, I'll give you that much. Still, let's say someone did hack Noir....that is one scary ass thought that capsuleers can have that happen to them.
But over all, I sort of agree with you. Something's not right. What it is? Hell if we'll ever know.
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
211
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I reluctantly agree with Anslo, while you raise interesting questions, I've never heard of a clone being hijacked.
Then you haven't been paying a whole lot of attention. It's entirely possible to do. There's a lot of extremely heavy security that in theory prevents it from happening, but with the voice of experience - there is no such thing as perfect security.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
|
|
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
237
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I reluctantly agree with Anslo, while you raise interesting questions, I've never heard of a clone being hijacked.
The location and level-of-interface of the capsule implants we all use make us particularly vulnerable to direct manipulation by outside sources. Given that our senses and motor controls are moderated by bridging implants, it would be relatively easy to create a clone duplicate and use it as a puppet. TCMCs, for example, allow such level of control. I'm personally glad for this technology, but it can certainly be used for covert or nefarious purposes. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
629
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 20:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
I'd like to add my voice to the other scientists (though I am really more of an engineer, really) speaking up. It's entirely possible to hijack a clone, assuming that you can negate the security.
Does this mean that I buy into Verin's "Must have been someone else pretending to be him" hypothesis? No.
Occams razor sort of comes into effect here because all we have to assume is that something caused Noir to snap on that particular day or the days leading up to it, whereas to assume that someone hijacked his clone we have to assume the existence of a conspiracy, up-to-and-including the clone techs, and that not a single one of them has come forward in the famously media saturated Federation. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
212
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Occams razor sort of comes into effect here because all we have to assume is that something caused Noir to snap on that particular day or the days leading up to it, whereas to assume that someone hijacked his clone we have to assume the existence of a conspiracy, up-to-and-including the clone techs, and that not a single one of them has come forward in the famously media saturated Federation.
Sorry, but "something caused him to snap on that particular day or days leading up to it" is NOT a simpler explanation. People "Just snapping" is a myth, a gross oversimplification of the process of ongoing mental breakdown that culminates in a serious event.
Being chosen for diplomatic escort detail entails psychiatric counselling. Any competent, non-complicit mental health expert would be alert and actively looking for the signs of somebody "about to snap" and would not authorise them for the escort detail unless confident that no such incident was likely.
So, it's not just "something caused him to snap". It's "Everything we know about human psychology and mental health turned out to be completely wrong for that specific person at that specific time." Hardly a simple explanation.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
622
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote: but what is more barbaric than slaughtering 400 THOUSAND hard working Caldari?.
Singing the praises of someone who'd crash a Carrier into a large civilian populace. I'd say that's worse, glorifying mass slaughter.
Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
629
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
I think you rather misundestood my point. I have no idea what was going on. He didn't "Just snap" in that he went crazy with no justification, but I rather think it is more plausible that something could have occured to drive him mad. Otherwise we have to assume a conspiracy, but a plausible conspiracy has a logical, founded goal.
So, lets play this game. Who would have benefited? Certainly not the Gallente or Caldari, who as a result have been drawn into a meatgrinder of a faction war with no definable end point. The military industrial complex? Perhaps, but I am not sure where they would have gotten the pull to start messing with capsuleer's clones.
There's simply no evidence for a conspiracy. The only plausible explanation is that he did, in fact, for whatever reason, decide that piloting a Nyx into a station was a fine way to spend an afternoon. Sadly we can't ask him why he felt that was a reasonable course of action. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
212
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Hmm... let's see... who benefited most from the death of Otro Gariushi? Whose political agenda of anti-Federal jingoism, ultimately concluding in the massive invasion of Federation space and the liberation of Caldari Prime, was in no small part made possible by a surge of nationalism and anger in the wake of national grief? Who, in fact, came out on top as an almost direct result of Malkalen?
...not that I'm accusing anyone. But I can certainly think of people who directly benefited from the incident, all of whom have access to more resources than I do, and I'd be prepared to bet that if I turned my mind to it I could accomplish a clonejacking.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
622
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia Certainly not the Gallente or Caldari, who as a result have been drawn into a meatgrinder of a faction war with no definable end point.
As a whole no, elements within either faction who snatched at the chance to engage in hostilities?
I'd say they gained a great deal.
Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
212
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
come to that, who benefited from making the incumbent Federation President at the time look incompetent? Who benefited from knocking Ishukone into a financial hole that it's been struggling to climb out of ever since? Who benefited from several months of Caldari 100% control over Federation lowsec? Who benefited from the embarrassment of the Federation Navy and the FIO?
It's a long, long damn list, and the thing is that I really don't think that pulling it off would have required more than a handful of people to be in the loop.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Pieter Tuulinen
State War Academy
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote: but what is more barbaric than slaughtering 400 THOUSAND hard working Caldari?. Singing the praises of someone who'd crash a Carrier into a large civilian populace. I'd say that's worse, glorifying mass slaughter.
How about criticising someone whose Carrier went down over a populated world in an engagement provoked by the Orbital bombardment of their homeworld coming from someone whose nation was responsible for said bombardment? |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
622
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: Who benefited from the embarrassment of the Federation Navy and the FIO?
Considering shortly after you might add, the creation of the SDII, which someone benefitted from, and still does, quite spectacularly.
Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |