EVE Search - Time based SP gains

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Time based SP gains

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:56:00 - [1] First let me credit Kiithnaras with this idea as it is one of many suggestions he makes in This thread. The only problem is that his title is too blase' to get much attention; Also, making multiple suggestions on one thread makes it hard sometimes to give an honest opinion of each. Having said that, On to the suggestion: I think using a skill should give small gains in SP. Maybe 1 SP / minute of active use or maybe 2 SP would be fair. And It would be time based, not event based, so repeatedly docking and undocking a cruiser wouldnt do anything to increase your cruiser levels, but mining with an osprey or running agant missions in a Caracal would SLOWLY add to your cruiser skills. I inderstand this idea was in game before; But as it was event based, it was heavily exploited. Perhaps reintroducing it as a time based option would be beneficial.
pshepherd	Posted - 2005.04.17 09:41:00 - [2] all this will lead to will be people AFK shooting astroids. Pretty pointless. This used to be in beta i believe and was taken out because people were exploiting it.
Hayzo	Posted - 2005.04.17 11:03:00 - [3] i agree with it. you read about riding a bike; you ride the bike. you learn faster doing which one? ____________________ "Sanity Is Not Statistical"
Alexi Borizkova	Posted - 2005.04.17 12:19:00 - [4] Originally by: OdCuK Hayzo i agree with it. you read about riding a bike; you ride the bike. you learn faster doing which one? But you're not reading abotu riding a bike, you're having your neural pathways configured to give you teh skill and ability gained from practicing riding a bike, as well as random useful information about riding a bike layered into your memory. They aren't books, regardless of what the graphic looks like.
Butter Glee	Posted - 2005.04.19 01:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Butter Glee on 19/04/2005 01:48:52 Originally by: pshepherd all this will lead to will be people AFK shooting astroids. Pretty pointless. This used to be in beta i believe and was taken out because people were exploiting it. Like that doesnt happen now? Btw, afk shooting roids wont do anything to increase navigation, cruiser command, gunnery, refinning, learning... I dont object to objections. I object to ignorant, rediculous, and pointless objections. This is TJanitn. I dunno how this alt became active on the boars. Can anyone tell me how to switch back please?
Cheim	Posted - 2005.04.19 02:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Butter Glee Like that doesnt happen now? Btw, afk shooting roids wont do anything to increase navigation, cruiser command, gunnery, refinning, learning... I think you misunderstand. He isn't talking about afk mining, he's talking about slapping on some guns and orbiting an asteroid in high-security space with an afterburner and armor repairer on auto-repeat. How many skills are being used there? Add in a target painter, a hardener, whatever you can think of; do it in an Apocalypse with small, medium, and large lasers and projectiles. And what would increase Learning, anyway? I suppose you could make it so only one skill is improved at a time, but which one? What calculation is used? Normal players won't know, knowledgeable players will make sure a high-rank skill gets boosted. Pretty much any devious system you can think of gives an advantage to players who bother finding and fiddling with all the quirks of the game mechanics, whereas the time-based system EVE has now is easily understood by all players. Skill use systems mean macros, cheap exploits, and ridiculous metagame calculation.
Odin Tahmorrex	Posted - 2005.04.19 03:40:00 - [7] So instead of flaming, I think a SOLUTION might be to instead give SP gains to ACTIONS that involved the given skills. Kill a rat, get some SP in a gunnery skill. Refine some mercoxit, get a little bonus to merc processing. OR have it add tiny amounts to the Attributes involved. Kill a rat, get a .001 addition to your perception and willpower skills.
Cheim	Posted - 2005.04.19 04:53:00 - [8] Edited by: Cheim on 19/04/2005 05:15:57 Originally by: Odin Tahmorrex So instead of flaming, I think a SOLUTION might be to instead give SP gains to ACTIONS that involved the given skills. Kill a rat, get some SP in a gunnery skill. Refine some mercoxit, get a little bonus to merc processing. OR have it add tiny amounts to the Attributes involved. Kill a rat, get a .001 addition to your perception and willpower skills. Okay. I'll share a character with a couple friends so it can kill 2.5k NPCs and refine veldspar (333 at a time) 24/7. If I can get a good enough macro I won't even need friends, plus I'll be able to make an eminently marketable character in short order. Unless the increases are so small as to be worthless, but then what's the point of implenting them? Like I said, macros and cheap exploits. I'll throw soul-numbing grind in there too, for the honest players.
chao226	Posted - 2005.04.19 15:20:00 - [9] it could work but it would have to be codded so that u dont get a skill bost from e.g useing a gun more from wht u shoot. sho afk shootting a roid wouldent do anything. dont see how mineing could b exploited ppl mine for hours a day anyway and most ppl would have near maxed mineing skills. navagation would have to just buildup with time make some events that hapen like warping to a stargate and jumping through gives u the bonus. enginering and electronics well EW would be a tough on to stop explitts but things klike remore armor repairors would require them to actuly repair aship and not strasportarmior to a full repaired ship
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.19 22:18:00 - [10] Edited by: TjanitN Tcroxlr on 19/04/2005 22:24:24 Originally by: chao226 it could work but it would have to be codded so that u dont get a skill bost from e.g useing a gun more from wht u shoot. so afk shooting a roid wouldnt do anything. dont see how mineing could b exploited ppl mine for hours a day anyway and most ppl would have near maxed mineing skills. You're on the right track so far. Originally by: chao226 navagation would have to just buildup with time make some events that hapen like warping to a stargate and jumping through gives u the bonus. But then people will insta back and forth for hours to get Nav skills up. I think event based SP gains are the easiest to exploit. Navigation should be based on the time spent using AP waypoints, and the increase should be very small so that even traders who spend hours on end in legitimate travel still wouldnt get more SP/hr on time based bonuses than they do on training. Originally by: chao226 enginering and electronics well EW would be a tough on to stop explitts but things klike remore armor repairors would require them to actuly repair aship and not strasportarmior to a full repaired ship I dont see how EW would be tough. EW stands for electronic warfare if someone uses EW devices on anything other than a hostile target, then it isnt warfare, and so no SP bonuses for EW. ;) Someone else brought up the question of Learning. I dont see any problem with adding 60 SP to Learning for every hour spent traininf any skill; Do you? Once Learning reaches level 5, one gets no more Time based bonuses in Learning. Or maybe all time-based bonus SP can go into a category bank and the player can distribute the SP to any skill in that category, however he chooses. So if you get 60 SP/hr for training a skill, you can add it to any non-maxed learning skill that is already in your skillsheet. If you earn 60 SP in EW, you can apply it to any non-maxed EW skill that is already in your skillsheet. Etc., Etc.
chao226	Posted - 2005.04.19 23:59:00 - [11] appoligie for the vagueness of the navagation section. i ment to post was event / T bonus. a degree of events used in genral flight to try to restrict exploits. as the events take place T is used for SP bonus. the key would be to set the SP gains to complement the current learning system not to replace it. for example if learning evasive manovering lvl 5 takes 10 days. you could potentialy cut itto 8 days ore parhaps learn it in a moth without concitateng on learning. as to stoping expliots t a degree soloution is simple. it ould be set that u can only learn so mch SP per skill per day this way e.g equivilant to 4 hours of useing skill. this would stop ppl useing macros to have the bonus running when they sleep. all thats relly needed is to find a balance so that learning skills normaly is still needed but complements ppl e.g someone taining mineing gets SP faster if he actuly fits some miners and mines
Cracken	Posted - 2005.04.20 02:46:00 - [12] you macro arguements are flawed in that useing them is a BANNABLE OFFENCE
chao226	Posted - 2005.04.20 17:48:00 - [13] i know its bannable but that dosnt stop ppl useing them does it. to my knowlege a well made wone would be extemely hard to catch. but thats just opinion of someone will a very basic knowlege of them.
Pagefault	Posted - 2005.04.21 09:19:00 - [14] Giving SP for beeing online leads only to one thing: ppl online 23/7. (or wouldn't u not leave your comp running if u'd get SP from it?) and ppl online 23/7 does only mean 1 thing: LAAAAAG
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.21 22:15:00 - [15] If you took the time to read the ideas presented, you would see no one is advocating giving SP just for being online, unless you count the suggested 60 bonus Learning SP/hour spent training, but then that would be awarded even for those who are training while they are offline. What we are suggesteing is that people actually get better at a skill when they use it. Sort of an XP model, but a more realistic one than most games have. More realistic because training still gains SP much faster than trial and error, and isn't exploitable, because the BSP is only earned when using the skill in it's intended role. For example, you wouldnt get BSP everytime you used a stargate, because that is exploitable, but you would get BSP for using waypoints because you can AP back and forth, seeing how waypoints cannot be set for the same place twice in a single AP route. You may say that people would use afterburners all the time just to get more Nav BSP, but I use AB all the time anyway, to get to my destination faster. What's wrong with throwing in a TINY amount of BSP for doing something we all do all the time anyway?
Miner's Bane	Posted - 2005.04.22 04:55:00 - [16] This is a stupid idea. If you dont see why, no amount of explaination can fix that. You're just stupid. As such, debate is worthless. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerebaldo	Posted - 2005.04.22 09:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Miner's Bane This is a stupid idea. If you dont see why, no amount of explaination can fix that. You're just stupid. As such, debate is worthless. Oh bull fkn sht! Your commentary was an unprovoked provocation shat out by haughty myopia. Now, there is no reason why a system like this cannot be built. If you dream of a system, then there's always a possibility of constructing it or an analogue. All that it requires is a painstaking contingency analysis. Just realize that every exploit mentioned here is a good thing! That doesn't mean that the idea isn't tenable, but rather that those exploits are what must be factored into its implementation. Too often are controversial ideas implemented without knowledge of their weaknesses. Look, we have a Macchiavellian community here in the gaming world. We have a test server to concretize the machiavellian ideas about exploitation. These tests lead to more ideas which lead to further loophole closures. We have a goal: Players will receive benefit in the skills that they utilize in their gameplay. We have obstacles: exploits; since you must assume that everyone is amoral. The procedure: EXPLOIT EASTER EGG HUNT! Wanna be smartypants? GOOD! Come up with every shred of evidence the idea wont work. Wanna be a smartypants with the last word while simultaneously benefitting the community? GOOD! Then come up with as many ways as you can to make the exploit impossible. THINK, REASON, PROGRESS! The devs don't have the perspective\experience\numbers that we have to shape the very logic that gets patched into our precious game. But we must do it in the above fashion! Its about organized innovation. Eventually that will send clear and night unshakable cues to CCP regarding the system implementation of every little thing that goes into EVE from this point forward, amen.
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.23 04:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Jerebaldo Oh bull fkn sht! Your commentary was an unprovoked provocation shat out by haughty myopia. Now, there is no reason why a system like this cannot be built. If you dream of a system, then there's always a possibility of constructing it or an analogue. All that it requires is a painstaking contingency analysis. Just realize that every exploit mentioned here is a good thing! That doesn't mean that the idea isn't tenable, but rather that those exploits are what must be factored into its implementation. Too often are controversial ideas implemented without knowledge of their weaknesses. Look, we have a Macchiavellian community here in the gaming world. We have a test server to concretize the machiavellian ideas about exploitation. These tests lead to more ideas which lead to further loophole closures. We have a goal: Players will receive benefit in the skills that they utilize in their gameplay. We have obstacles: exploits; since you must assume that everyone is amoral. The procedure: EXPLOIT EASTER EGG HUNT! Wanna be smartypants? GOOD! Come up with every shred of evidence the idea wont work. Wanna be a smartypants with the last word while simultaneously benefitting the community? GOOD! Then come up with as many ways as you can to make the exploit impossible. THINK, REASON, PROGRESS! The devs don't have the perspective\experience\numbers that we have to shape the very logic that gets patched into our precious game. But we must do it in the above fashion! Its about organized innovation. Eventually that will send clear and night unshakable cues to CCP regarding the system implementation of every little thing that goes into EVE from this point forward, amen. Well said! Or in more simple vernacular, "You can say THAT again! Oh. Wait. I just did. :P
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.23 04:13:00 - [19] Edited by: TjanitN Tcroxlr on 23/04/2005 09:17:08 Originally by: Jerebaldo Oh bull fkn sht! Your commentary was an unprovoked provocation shat out by haughty myopia. Now, there is no reason why a system like this cannot be built. If you dream of a system, then there's always a possibility of constructing it or an analogue. All that it requires is a painstaking contingency analysis. Just realize that every exploit mentioned here is a good thing! That doesn't mean that the idea isn't tenable, but rather that those exploits are what must be factored into its implementation. Too often are controversial ideas implemented without knowledge of their weaknesses. Look, we have a Macchiavellian community here in the gaming world. We have a test server to concretize the machiavellian ideas about exploitation. These tests lead to more ideas which lead to further loophole closures. We have a goal: Players will receive benefit in the skills that they utilize in their gameplay. We have obstacles: exploits; since you must assume that everyone is amoral. The procedure: EXPLOIT EASTER EGG HUNT! Wanna be smartypants? GOOD! Come up with every shred of evidence the idea wont work. Wanna be a smartypants with the last word while simultaneously benefitting the community? GOOD! Then come up with as many ways as you can to make the exploit impossible. THINK, REASON, PROGRESS! The devs don't have the perspective\experience\numbers that we have to shape the very logic that gets patched into our precious game. But we must do it in the above fashion! Its about organized innovation. Eventually that will send clear and night unshakable cues to CCP regarding the system implementation of every little thing that goes into EVE from this point forward, amen. Well said! Or in more simple vernacular, "You can say THAT again!" Oh. Wait. I just did. :P
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.04.23 08:30:00 - [20] Bad idea. 1) Will get 'sploited like last time they tried it. 2) Turns EVE into "EQ in Space" Pfft... -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.23 09:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Jakk Graiseach Bad idea. 1) Will get 'sploited like last time they tried it. 2) Turns EVE into "EQ in Space" Pfft... Do you have anything useful to add...like how it can be exploited so that we can think of ways to stop them? Better yet, you can suggest ways to make it work and not be exploitable. A good place to start would be to read the whole thread and not add anything if you have nothing useful to add. "It wont work." Isn't useful.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2005.04.23 12:22:00 - [22] well... it was implemented before. It was abused. so it got nerfed. Kinda wish yall were around long enough to experiance it. But cant get everything i suppose. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.04.23 13:51:00 - [23] Edited by: theRaptor on 23/04/2005 13:51:48 Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr Originally by: Jakk Graiseach Bad idea. 1) Will get 'sploited like last time they tried it. 2) Turns EVE into "EQ in Space" Pfft... Do you have anything useful to add...like how it can be exploited so that we can think of ways to stop them? Better yet, you can suggest ways to make it work and not be exploitable. A good place to start would be to read the whole thread and not add anything if you have nothing useful to add. "It wont work." Isn't useful. CCP cant program that without it being exploited. And the checks you would have to do to make sure people werent exploiting would suck up to much CPU. CCP can't even spare the CPU cycles to give missiles true agility, and you want them to check that you aren't just AFK with your ship orbiting a BS rat with guns going? EVE is unique in that it doesnt have experience points for whcking NPC's* or any of that crap. That means you might never shoot a NPC but still be good in PVP. This game already has to much content wrapped up in agent missions. * And there are even more exploits if you get experience from PVP. -------------------------------------------------- Thanks for killing my corporation ISD. ISD Motto: Changing history, one air brushed photo at a time.
Miner's Bane	Posted - 2005.04.23 15:52:00 - [24] Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr Do you have anything useful to add...like how it can be exploited so that we can think of ways to stop them? Better yet, you can suggest ways to make it work and not be exploitable. A good place to start would be to read the whole thread and not add anything if you have nothing useful to add. "It wont work." Isn't useful. Its not his, nor my job to fix your ****ty idea. Not that fixing it can be done, since its exploitable by its very nature. I would explain further, but my prior comment about why thats a waste of time still holds true. ------------------------------------------------------------------
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.23 16:41:00 - [25] Edited by: TjanitN Tcroxlr on 23/04/2005 16:43:44 Edited by: TjanitN Tcroxlr on 23/04/2005 16:41:43 Originally by: theRaptor Edited by: theRaptor on 23/04/2005 13:51:48 Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr Originally by: Jakk Graiseach Bad idea. 1) Will get 'sploited like last time they tried it. 2) Turns EVE into "EQ in Space" Pfft... Do you have anything useful to add...like how it can be exploited so that we can think of ways to stop them? Better yet, you can suggest ways to make it work and not be exploitable. A good place to start would be to read the whole thread and not add anything if you have nothing useful to add. "It wont work." Isn't useful CCP cant program that without it being exploited. Have they tried it the way I am suggesting? I dont think so. So how do you know? Originally by: theRaptor And the checks you would have to do to make sure people werent exploiting would suck up to much CPU. I dont see how a check to see if a target is actually firing at you is so bandwidth intensive. Originally by: theRaptor ...You want them to check that you aren't just AFK with your ship orbiting a BS rat with guns going? Oh come on. How long do you think anyone would last AFK orbiting a BS rat? Either you or the Rat will certainly pop fairly quickly, especially if Rat reinforcements spawn in. You wouldnt even get 1 BSP. I never said anything about checking that someone isnt AFK. The fact that the gains are so tiny will inherently discourages abuse because in the time it takes to get 1 BSP, you could earn 1mil mining scord. I dont know what your true objection to this is, but so far you all havent offered a single objection that makes any sense. Pfffft yourself
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.04.23 16:59:00 - [26] Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr I dont know what your true objection to this is, but so far you all havent offered a single objection that makes any sense. Pfffft yourself That's because you won't listen to the several of us who tell you 1) It's a bad idea 2) It will be 'sploited 3) We don't want an 'SP per action' skill gain in EVE 4) It was tried before and REMOVED because people 'sploited. Have a REALLY nice day now... -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Miner's Bane	Posted - 2005.04.23 20:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Miner''s Bane on 23/04/2005 21:00:11 Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr The fact that the gains are so tiny will inherently discourages abuse because in the time it takes to get 1 BSP, you could earn 1mil mining scord. 1m of scordite... Call that 20m. So you'd get 3 additional SP per hour. That is roughly 700x slower then normal skill training. You would need to spend more then a month in-game to get an hour of skill training. That is far too stupid to even bother wasting time on coding. I will make an assumption that there is no possible way for you to be any more idiotic, although I fear that you will prove me wrong with your next nonsensical reply. Oh, and if you think you couldnt AFK and shoot at NPC battleships, well then youre simply ignorant. There's nothing else that needs to be said there. ------------------------------------------------------------------
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.23 23:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Jakk Graiseach 1) It's a bad idea That's your opinion. I happen to think it's a good idea. Originally by: Jakk Graiseach 2) It will be 'sploited Not if it is done correctly. Originally by: Jakk Graiseach 3) We don't want an 'SP per action' skill gain in EVE The truth finally comes out. YOU dont want it. Fortunately, neither you nor I represent a majority of Eve players. You have no idea what the majority wants, nor have you been appointed by the majority as a representative. Stop assuming just because you dont want it, no one else will either. Originally by: Jakk Graiseach 4) It was tried before and REMOVED because people 'sploited. Because it wasnt done the way I am saying to do it. It was purely event based, which is the most exploitable system ever created. Originally by: Jakk Graiseach Have a REALLY nice day now... Likewise
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.04.24 05:41:00 - [29] Edited by: theRaptor on 24/04/2005 05:42:02 Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr Originally by: theRaptor ...You want them to check that you aren't just AFK with your ship orbiting a BS rat with guns going? Oh come on. How long do you think anyone would last AFK orbiting a BS rat? Either you or the Rat will certainly pop fairly quickly, especially if Rat reinforcements spawn in. You obviously know nothing about this game. 1) Kill all rats in mission spawn except BS (turret based). 2) Get in Inty with short range guns and orbit at 15k. The rat will never hit you. You will never hit the rat (or do to little damage to break the tank). Its possible to solo Serpentis Domis using a punisher, let alone a T2 frig. And all you have to do is make sure you are doing not enough damage to break its tank. So every single person that is NPCing would have to have CPU cycles used to not only reward extra SP based on activity, but also to run heaps of checks to make sure people where not exploiting. And CCP have already said they cant afford to give missiles true agility, which is a trivial amount of computation per missile. And which only affects some NPCers and PVPers. But you want them to do something that is at least if not more computationally intensive, but affects all* NPCers. And even if they did put it in, most of the time you would not be getting extra SP because the computer can't tell if you are exploiting or not and has to err on the side of caution. * They also couldnt make the map display pilots in space for only a few jumps around you based on your skills, because it sucked to much CPU. -------------------------------------------------- Thanks for killing my corporation ISD. ISD Motto: Changing history, one air brushed photo at a time.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.04.24 05:47:00 - [30] Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr The truth finally comes out. YOU dont want it. Fortunately, neither you nor I represent a majority of Eve players. You have no idea what the majority wants, nor have you been appointed by the majority as a representative. Stop assuming just because you dont want it, no one else will either. CCP don't want it. Notice how skills in EVE are time based instead of being level and XP based, like most other MMOG's? I assume the idea was to remove the NPC grind, but thats failed as so many other things are tied up to getting good standings with NPC factions. -------------------------------------------------- Thanks for killing my corporation ISD. ISD Motto: Changing history, one air brushed photo at a time.

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.