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UltraSheep
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Posted - 2005.04.18 20:43:00 -
[1]
So I've got a mining barge. Now what? The damn thing cant mount any turrets, its only got 100m^3 drone space, and not nearly enough CPU to support a strip miner. What is the point of this ship?
Does anyone know of a good setup for the Procurer?
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.04.18 20:46:00 -
[2]
Strip miner has fitting bonus. You can fit them, on barges only.. Ditch the procurer for a retriever however- only it and the covetor are worth flying.
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UltraSheep
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Posted - 2005.04.18 20:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: UltraSheep on 18/04/2005 20:54:41
Oh. So the CPU load doesn't matter?
[EDIT]Ha! Thats crazy. It doesn't even care about the CPU thing. Thanks for the help. [/EDIT]
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ZeeWolf
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Posted - 2005.04.18 21:08:00 -
[4]
the CPU bonus is there only to stop the strip miners being shoved on other ships. It makes them a Barge Only item.
 Originally by: UltraSheep
The damn thing cant mount any turrets
What? Why would you want to mount turrets on a MINING barge?
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2005.04.18 22:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ZeeWolf
Originally by: UltraSheep
The damn thing cant mount any turrets
What? Why would you want to mount turrets on a MINING barge?
Actually, mining lasers arer turrets, and I have had several friends report they wished they could use standard lasers on the barge, usually for quasi afk mining.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.19 00:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Originally by: ZeeWolf
Originally by: UltraSheep
The damn thing cant mount any turrets
What? Why would you want to mount turrets on a MINING barge?
Actually, mining lasers arer turrets, and I have had several friends report they wished they could use standard lasers on the barge, usually for quasi afk mining.
And now you know why you cant.
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2005.04.19 00:16:00 -
[7]
I suppose. However I never really understood their reasoning anyhow, as the idea they had was to use miner IIs instead osf stripminers to slowly fill the hold over time AFK then they come back and dump the ore in station.
What I didn't get is that with strip miners you fill teh hold in, what, one cycle, so usingthem gets the samne results, IE a full hold awaiting your return, all I can figure is htye want to conserve the 'roids(not offing a whole cycle of a stripminer's worth of ore fo the last xm3).
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.04.19 05:04:00 -
[8]
Considering the strip miners have a 3 minute recycle time, if you're can mining with one, you can pretty much afk it from there. You've got a max of about 5 minutes before you have to do anything, so it's pretty easy to do whatever while using one.
I really don't understand what it is with people who feel you must be glued to the screen the entire time you're mining. Maybe they like gouging their eyes out or something?
Harry Voyager
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Sarah Jugger
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Posted - 2005.04.19 06:05:00 -
[9]
welcome to the world of <0.8 space where suddenly npc killers are poping in and wacking your afk barge ;)
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.04.19 07:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sarah Jugger
welcome to the world of <0.8 space where suddenly npc killers are poping in and wacking your afk barge ;)
My ceo killed a player kestral in his barge, drones 4 teh win1!
Death to the Galante |
VirusUK15
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Posted - 2005.04.19 08:06:00 -
[11]
 
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.04.19 09:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sarah Jugger
welcome to the world of <0.8 space where suddenly npc killers are poping in and wacking your afk barge ;)
Actually, I find that, though dumb, the 4 heavy drones around my large barge usually eat the rat spawn before they can eat me. Though it's not reliable enough that I conciously use the fact - has just saved my ass a few times when I got distracted by RL emergencies.
Originally by: Harry Voyager
I really don't understand what it is with people who feel you must be glued to the screen the entire time you're mining. Maybe they like gouging their eyes out or something?
Actually, with strip miners, constant attention is good, due to the long cycle times. Why is easy to see when you consider that, every time you pop a roid you will waste, on average, 1.5 minutes of mining time. That's around 485m3 of ore for a max-skilled miner. If you're stripping an average empire belt, containing, say, 50 roids, that's 75 minutes wasted, 36375m3 of ore (worth between 2.1 and 3.5mill for empire ores at current prices).
By paying attention and manually cycling your strip miners as fast as your capacitor allows, this wasted time can be minimised. Sure, you lose a bit of time in the manual cycling, but not much.
You have two elements of mining loss from manual cycling, fractional ore loss, and reactivation delay time. Fractional ore loss is you losing the fraction of an ore unit you had mined. Again, considering the player with maxed out mining skills, the strip miner accumulates m3 of ore at a rate of 5.4m3/second. Even with the largest ores of 16m3 per unit, you're gonna waste at max 3 seconds mining time to the cycle loss, on average 1.5 seconds. For scordite and other low-end minerals, the waste is negligable. Reactivation delay time is simply how long it takes to cycle the laser. I generally find this is about 2 seconds.
Now, cycling the strip miners on a barge once a minute is perfectly feasible with the barge capacitor. Hence your manual cycling reduces the average wasted time to 30 seconds.
Obviously the total wasted time for the manual cycling option depends on how long the roid lasts. For it to become the same as the autocycle case, the roid would need to survive 30 cycles. 30 cycles of one minute means about 9700m3 of ore in the roid, which is a fairly fat roid, at least for empire space. Of course, the ideal case would be to use a roid scanner and manually cycle only when the roid is nearly empty. But the difficulty of associating the roid scanner readings with the actual roids makes that a lot more effort.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.04.19 09:06:00 -
[13]
^^ or you could just use a roid scanner  
Death to the Galante |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.04.19 09:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim Steele
^^ or you could just use a roid scanner
Yes, I could, but there are 3 reasons why I don't.
1) The majority of roids in my belts pop well before the 30-cycle point (I keep them well-trimmed), so the majority of roid scan results would tell me it's nearly time to start cycling anyway.
2) Associating the contents of the roid scanner box with specific roids is a right pain in the ass, espeically when you're trying to co-ordinate multiple miners so they all mine different roids.
3) The barges only have one mid-slot, and I prefer putting a sensor booster in it, so I can use my drones out to my max drone range (thus helping my barge live longer).
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Luance DeAngeluotti
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Posted - 2005.04.19 09:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Matthew
Now, cycling the strip miners on a barge once a minute is perfectly feasible with the barge capacitor. Hence your manual cycling reduces the average wasted time to 30 seconds.
Hi.
I did my mining up till now in an iteron with a Mk II Mining Laser. Afk in empire space for obvious reasons 
Now I am training for a mining barge to do it more professionally.
I don't get the concept of cycling, though. Afaik you have to deactivate the mining module to change targets and so start the cycle again when changing to a new roid.
So what do I miss?
Another question is, what kind of ores can I mine with a strip miner? There are some hard to mine ores in lowsec space, do I have to use a Strip Miner II with crystals to mine them?
We are recruiting!
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.04.19 10:09:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 19/04/2005 10:09:55
Originally by: Luance DeAngeluotti
I don't get the concept of cycling, though. Afaik you have to deactivate the mining module to change targets and so start the cycle again when changing to a new roid.
So what do I miss?
basically the miners have a 3minute cycle time so if the roid is empty you have to wait up to 3 minutes for the roid to pop unless you deactivate them manually.
Quote:
Another question is, what kind of ores can I mine with a strip miner? There are some hard to mine ores in lowsec space, do I have to use a Strip Miner II with crystals to mine them?
Strip twos have a higher yield only when crystals are fitted. You dont need them for lowsec mining the yield is higher with them but can still mine well enough with strip 1's, also strip ones outperform strip 2's when no crystals are fitted.
Death to the Galante[/b] |
Luance DeAngeluotti
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Posted - 2005.04.19 10:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jim Steele
basically the miners have a 3minute cycle time so if the roid is empty you have to wait up to 3 minutes for the roid to pop unless you deactivate them manually.
That means if I just watch it could be that the roid is empty after 10 seconds of the new cycle, but the programm only tells me so at after another 2:50 mins because of the cycle time?
Originally by: Jim Steele
Originally by: Luance
Another question is, what kind of ores can I mine with a strip miner? There are some hard to mine ores in lowsec space, do I have to use a Strip Miner II with crystals to mine them?
Strip twos have a higher yield only when crystals are fitted. You dont need them for lowsec mining the yield is higher with them but can still mine well enough with strip 1's, also strip ones outperform strip 2's when no crystals are fitted.
O.K. but my original question was, if it is possible to mine EVERY ore with Strip Miners 1. Even the more scarce ones.
Or are there ores that are not minable with Strip Miners 1?
We are recruiting!
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.04.19 10:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Luance DeAngeluotti
I don't get the concept of cycling, though. Afaik you have to deactivate the mining module to change targets and so start the cycle again when changing to a new roid.
So what do I miss?
When a roid pops, you always have some wasted time. The mining lasers only actually take ore from a roid at the end of a cycle - until then, it's just a counter counting up how much it's going to take. So the count in the roid only goes down when the cycle ends (either normally or by manual intervention). Even if there is only 1 unit of ore left in the roid, the roid won't pop until the laser cycle ends, even if that cycle would normally draw hundreds of units. This generates wasted time, as your miners are running but not actually getting you any ore.
The exact quantity of ore in the roid at the last cycle can be assumed random (unless you use a roid scanner to find it out), hence it can take any value between 1 unit, and as many units as your laser draws in one cycle. Hence, the average wasted time on a pop is generally half the cycle time.
Manual cycling simply allows you to shorten the cycle time by hand - you just deactivate the laser, then re-activate it on the same target again. The only real limits on this are your capacitor (each new activation costs the full amount of cap), and how fast you can click.
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SirSpectre
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Posted - 2005.04.19 17:06:00 -
[19]
Yes, you can mine every ore (except mercoxite, which needs a deep core miner) with the strip miner 1.
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